LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Cat DNA is what will get him.

Who's DNA and fingerprints did they find? They weren't RAs or we'd already know, IMO. I believe we'd know by now if there was a cat hair match.

The only reason RA is arrested is that his car (How do they know it's his car?) is seen on video and he admitted to being there.

RL had the bodies found on his land and someone using his cell phone made a call around 10pm from the area the bodies were found at. He lied about his whereabouts that day. Was it just to avoid probation violation or more?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

He would have been charged long ago if it was him. I followed this case early on and know a lot about it..

You seem to believe that it doesn't take long to build a case against someone. How did LISK and other serial killers get away with it for so long? DAs will frustrate the Police by turning down the prosecution of a suspect because they don't have enough evidence yet. They have to get enough evidence that a DA feels confident will lead to a conviction.

So someone other than RA left DNA and fingerprints at the crime scene, and yet you are sure he acted alone.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

That call was probably to his mate for his driving alibi.

First, his cousin doesn't say he called him at 10pm. Second, why did he call near the bodies?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Cat DNA at the scene and fingerprints on the bullet, I bet.

IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?

Another thing from the video: 23:53

When the video was made in May 2022, they had no witness' saying they saw someone coming from the crime scene covered in blood and soaking wet. So where did this magic witness that saw a muddy and bloody guy come from?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

The FBI agent narrator also believes more than one guy was involved in this. Logan could have gotten back to his house without anybody seeing him. Thus the invention of muddy/bloody witness for RA.

 

[RoundPeg]

IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?

It's called controlling the narrative.

(Bolded your very last sentence)

 

[Tresir]

I think you're imagining a group (of what size) is problematic. How many men can't change a lightbulb or does it take either way nor if you were going to murder someone and chance prison would you want ten others involved, participating, etc. one of which would flip on you eventually or mess up in the carrying out of the crime to begin with.

Name some PLANNED murders by a group or flock in broad daylight that are a thing like this case as to where, victims, time of day, etc.? Now if you are talking two or maybe three, I wouldn't think it was totally outlandish. You'd also have to coordinate each person, the when, the vehicles, the travel etc. when even A & L did NOT know if they'd be able to go to the trails that day. Now a single person or two might hope and wait to hear but several that the leader would have to inform when and if it was on or off and so on? It is so far fetched.

Now if you said RA and KK and RL I still wouldn't be totally on board but at least that isn't so out there.

Who is coordinating this and telling the others whether it is off or on as the minutes and day goes by as to whether A & L will get to go to the trails or not or at what time? As to time frame and the window of time they will have and when to be at their posts?

Called Os in from various towns? Did they all just take the day off work and hope it happened? Same with the pedos if that was the case?

I guess I'm asking how big of a group or flock are you talking about? Because group and flock implies many.

What did the shepherd say to his assistants?

Get the flock out of here!!

Couldn't resist.

 

[Tresir]

The FBI agent narrator also believes more than one guy was involved in this. Logan could have gotten back to his house without anybody seeing him. Thus the invention of muddy/bloody witness for RA.

I think muddy/bloody/fight guy was walking the opposite way, towards the old CPS building. And RL could have just walked back to his house all on his own land, but anyway, he was in Lafayette FFS having pizza and beer and buying fish (without chips).

 

[Tresir]

Who's DNA and fingerprints did they find? They weren't RAs or we'd already know, IMO. I believe we'd know by now if there was a cat hair match.

The only reason RA is arrested is that his car (How do they know it's his car?) is seen on video and he admitted to being there.

RL had the bodies found on his land and someone using his cell phone made a call around 10pm from the area the bodies were found at. He lied about his whereabouts that day. Was it just to avoid probation violation or more?

Why would we know by now? They have to keep some evidence under their hat.

They know RA was there because he told DD he was there, where he parked, what time and who he saw on the trails - didn't mention the girls though, which is funny because he would have seen them, as he was there at the exact same times. Don't forget, when he told DD all that, he didn't know Libby had filmed him.

So how did they triangulate RL's 10pm call accurately when there is only one cell tower there? Any call RL made on his own property would have registered on the network as he lived pretty close to the crime scene anyway. The girls were found on his property. If you were going to abduct and kill two girls, why would you do it on your own property?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

It's called controlling the narrative.

(Bolded your very last sentence)

All I can say is that if it were me, and I'd done that crime. I would never admit to have being there.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I think muddy/bloody/fight guy was walking the opposite way towards the old CPS building. And RL could have just walked back to his house all on his own land, but anyway, he was in Lafayette FFS having pizza and beer and buying fish (without chips).

He wasn't in Lafayette. That was a lie.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Why would we know by now? They have to keep some evidence under their hat.

They know RA was there because he told DD he was there, where he parked, what time and who he saw on the trails - didn't mention the girls though, which is funny because he would have seen them, as he was there at the same time. Don't forget, when he told DD all that, he didn't know Libby had filmed him.

So how did they triangulate RL's 10pm call accurately when there is only one cell tower there. Any call he made on his own property would have registered on the network and he lived pretty close to the crime scene anyway.

Or he didn't mention the girls because it wasn't him. There was definitely more than just RA involved. The more I look at it, the more I think he may not have been involved at all. He told the police he was there and someone on the police force who had something to hide found a guy who said he was there and has framed him, poorly at that.

 

[Tresir]

You seem to believe that it doesn't take long to build a case against someone. How did LISK and other serial killers get away with it for so long? DAs will frustrate the Police by turning down the prosecution of a suspect because they don't have enough evidence yet. They have to get enough evidence that a DA feels confident will lead to a conviction.

So someone other than RA left DNA and fingerprints at the crime scene, and yet you are sure he acted alone.

Is there a source for fingerprints, other than RA, being at the scene? What were they found on? I have never heard that. I am guessing there are RA fingerprints and possible DNA on the bullet, but we don't know.

LISK got away with it for so long because
1) The victims were prostitutes.
2) Bodies were only found because of the phone call to LE that Shannon made before she disappeared, initiating a massive search.
3) The chief of police at the time was bent.

 

[Tresir]

Or he didn't mention the girls because it wasn't him. There was definitely more than just RA involved. The more I look at it, the more I think he may not have been involved at all. He told the police he was there and someone on the police force who had something to hide found a guy who said he was there and has framed him, poorly at that.

RA admitted being on the trails 1.30 to 3.30 even before the pic of BG was released. He told DD he saw 3 girls at Freedom bridge. He told him he went to the bridge to watch fish. He did not admit to seeing the girls at all yet he would have been there at the same time as them.

Why did the witnesses see no others on the trail that day?

What you are saying is not correct and I see nothing to show that more than just one guy BG/RA was on the trail and bridge and the witnesses have always claimed the exact same thing. One guy, alone.

He had to tell them he was at the trails, because he was seen when he first arrived, and he knew that he had been seen.

There was no other adult male on the trail in that two hour period.

The witness that saw him leaving was going by in a vehicle when they saw him.

So if the police framed him, why did they take so long to do it?

Don't forgot, RA does not have a criminal record AFAIK, so neither his fingerprints or DNA would be in the system IMO.

 

[Tresir]

He wasn't in Lafayette. That was a lie.

He drove himself to the dump and to Lafayette and had a receipt from the store. He didn't want the police to know he drove so he got a friend to lie about the driving. I followed his case at the time.

 

[RoundPeg]

All I can say is that if it were me, and I'd done that crime. I would never admit to have being there.

That's why you aren't the one in jail.

 

[GrandmaBear]

If ya ever have a hankering to watch it there it is.

Well, as you know, I don't have RL off my list. I've heard all of the reasons before as have you and find most of them not enough, particularly how he treated adult ex gfs/women and their opinions that BG was him. That seems uhm pretty natural. His anger is all I'd note from that and that's if all is true.

Did he kill two girls and then by 5 something p.m. was at the fish store? Why would you do that or who would ever do that after a murder like this? It doesn't provide him an alibi and was stupid.

They did do a probation violation based warrant to search his home for guns, etc. Did they attempt to match any gun to the casing or were they not legally allowed to? If they did, they would have come back with no success to proceed any further.

None of this largely circumstantial or hearsay stuff was enough for a full on warrant.

Of interest is that LE found fibers and hairs and I wonder if they've had any matches on those to Allen or family. They should be checking in the very same way they did in LISK.

The time he made a phone call that day is interesting but I don't see a 70 year old doing Snapchat. It COULD correlate with him calling someone to come in from the other side of the bridge, someone who was waiting, and force the girls down. However, he could have simply been calling a woman or someone to say he'd be in Lafeyette getting fish and did she want to have dinner for goodness sakes. It could be anything.

So he is in Lafeyette on 02/13 at 5:21 p.m. Google says that's 15 to 18 miles from Delphi. A bit odd isn't it that he'd leave and drive when LE was around searching for the girls and a lot of other peoplel...? Risky. That would lead me to believe he very well may have left right after that phone call and wasn't even around when the girls were murdered. And he'd be coming home for a fact in the dark. Was he even THERE that night? Or at what time? WHEN was the first in person contact by anyone with Logan?

While this is all interesting and contains many of the reasons I don't dismiss him, there is nothing much with any real weight. There is much that could fit together IF they had any real evidence of anything which they don't.

As far as BG and his height, that was a nothing burger, they spent little time on it other than saying his physical build was consistent, not his height specifically. I've either heard this one before or read the report by the agent. It isn't new to me most of the info although I may have forgotten the phone call and hair and fibers which I found most of note.

Here's the thing, let's say this was a few, not a big group but two or three and he called someone waiting on the trails and let's just say someone had told the girls to take a pic of Abby crossing the bridge (who was scared to it is said) and put it on Snapchat (like if the fake Shots asked her/them to) and Logan was the one to watch for it and then contact the other guy that it's time to corner them and force them down the hill, it is still not RL as BG on that bridge. Logan would have to cross it hoping no one was there somehow get around and behind them to then cross back over OR he would have had to go around to begin to come from behind them and in short order. I don't see that.

A couple of things First, LE likely knows who he called. I'd hope. And it probably related in no way to these murders. There was another important point/question I just blanked on so I guess I can't mention that one. If I recall, I'll come back and add it. Does Logan do things like Snapchat? I've never been near it and you and I are way younger than he'd be or have been. HIs live in gf in 2i016 would likely know. No mention of it. So would other users he may have engaged with know but again no mention of it.

Logan was scared of getting caught driving, do we really think he'd decide to risk his freedom and murder two girls? Seems pretty out there when you look at it that way. He would seem to fit only with a ring or another for some purpose like that. I guess he could have been angered two teens were crossing towards HIS land did it himself and just lost his temper but that's a huge stretch too.

Everything in this case as you know has been talked of, speculated and exhausted for years but IF the girls were alive until later than is thought, that changes a LOT of things. LE doesn't help those thoughts with the claim they were moved and staged. It leads me to believe there is much in this case unknown to the public yet, just as the new charges make me wonder...

Finally, it is really curious that defense wouldn't have went with something far more logical and a real suggestion like putting this on Logan. They can't connect RA to RL as far as we know so putting it on Logan with all of these points would be a lot more believable. I can only think they didn't because first LE DID investigate him and perhaps there is enough to show he didn't do it even though we don't know what that proof is OR RL does connect to RA in some way. Or it could have just been they simply needed and wanted something sensational and big like the Os plus they had to account for RA's confessions.

I don't really want to rehash the same old stuff again BUT I watched it which again was not new to me for the most part and did discuss it here, trying to hit on a few new things instead of all the same old that we already know.

I REALLY think there is more in this case that the defense was/is trying to keep from coming out or going further. I feel they NEEDED several big splashes, diversions, stall tactic, consuming the time and attention from the FM to the leak to then the ISC thing. They desperately NEED the warrant tossed and it's hard for me to believe it is just for the gun/bullet evidence THEY claim is nothingness. They NEED his confessions tossed, disbelieved, not heard.

Back to Logan, even though defense did not use that as a defense, LE I'd hope is ready to show in court that it couldn't have been him if necessary. I assume they are. The bullet alone makes it RA and not Logan though but I'd assume there is more. So, while I can be brought back to wondering if Logan fits in and I've never taken it off my possibilities, overall, I don't have it high on my list unless there's REALLY some BIG things we don't know and some evidence.

I said recently and even after watching this it's still true, all there really is are his lies and the fact that he can't help that it's his property right there. Everything else is hearsay and relate to adult unhealthy relationships and break ups and smoke. Nothing solid at all.

Was he EVEN HOME or left right around that same time?

If they did any checking before too late, I'd think they'd see his truck on camera somewhere. The same came that caught RA's car or one in Lafayette whether on the street, in a store, etc. OR a bar for that matter.

Anyhow I don't have time to keep up with all here much less all threads, so consider that my donation for the day or week or year on RL lol. Shouldn't have taken the time as it is. I have sooo much to do.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I just watched the first part and I've been wanting to point something out, but keep forgetting. One of the dumbest things I've ever seen in a press conference is the police showing the Anthony Shotts picture. You've got FBI agents assisting in the murder investigation. As an amateur sleuth I knew what was going on when they showed it.

The Anthony Shotts picture was a picture of a guy pulled from the internet who was good looking. His picture was used on the account to make people believe that's what the guy, they were talking to, looked like. It would have been very simple to take the Shotts picture and run it through Google Image Search and find that exact picture or a similar one. If they found the exact picture it would lead them to a possible identification of the person. They could then go interview the person. Evidently, they really thought that the Anthony Shotts guy would use his real picture. In the press conference they just muddied crap up by displaying it.

If they wanted to display it they should have said this is the picture of the guy from the account one of the girls was talking to. We'd merely like to talk to him. He's not a POI and definitely not bridge guy. He's identified himself as Anthony Shotts on his account.

Yeah it was a no brainer as to why they were showing it but what makes you think they didn't know that or hadn't even maybe already found him and talked to him and perhaps even had it okayed? Seems to me they did say it wasn't the guy they were looking for as to who killed the girls didn't they?

Personally I remember thinking they were hoping to get more girls/kids that had interacted with he account and maybe even had meetings attempted to be set up, etc. and where and so on. You know, the more pattern, evidence, proof of interaction and attempts, the better. For the case.

 

[GrandmaBear]

In part two Sherrif Leazanby says he was named in three calls to the tip line. The investigators talked to him and ruled him out. Police are very protective of each other. I doubt they did a deep dive into his possible involvement.

I'm not saying he was involved, but I do think that someone in the PD is hiding some stuff that would be beneficial to the defense.

Trying to catch up with the last page or two, I'll never be able to go back and read all.

So who are you talking of here? RL again?

Imo they are covering Doolin's screw up and whether it was really a screw up as to RA disappearing right off from the possibilities for the next five plus years.

As to the RL psot I just replied to at length, I'd also add that I would assume LE asked the trail witnesses if Logan was who they saw that day. And I'm going to guess it was a no way for an answer. He also could not be the one seen on the road or it would be very unlikely. Just recalled that so adding it even though not on the right post. Lol.