LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Where are you getting the acid doses from? Also why do you think they are false confessions?

We don't have proof of the five but we know a man who does. Do you believe anything? Do you believe he ate his discovery paperwork ? Now that is really looney tunes, right there IMO. Reading what he did has sent him over the edge - hence the confessions, because he knows his wife and mother will see that paperwork in court. I think he is going to take a plea deal to keep the details from them.
I've read like five posts in here the last ones in the last two days. No idea of what came before but I think he just decided acid would make him do such and so he decided the guards gave him acid. I seriously doubt he has any reason for it from any facts or even talk, it is his wild speculation to explain why RA confessed.

Even with not being up on the thread for probably a week or MORE, pretty positive he gets it from nowhere.
 
I've read like five posts in here the last ones in the last two days. No idea of what came before but I think he just decided acid would make him do such and so he decided the guards gave him acid. I seriously doubt he has any reason for it from any facts or even talk, it is his wild speculation to explain why RA confessed.

Even with not being up on the thread for probably a week or MORE, pretty positive he gets it from nowhere.
Well I did say I thought he was perhaps helping himself a bit too much at work but is acid even a thing these days? So many other new and weird drugs these days.
 
So this is all in your speculation and imagination now that RA was given ACID and had it forced on him by the guards right?

By the way the five confessions come from the fact he confessed to his wife repeatedly, more than once in their phone call. And then confessed to mom too.

ACID? Come on emu. Speculation is one thing but a wild imagination is another.

And it's your speculation that the two people who knew RL very well were completely wrong, that a guys file that admitted to being there was "accidentally" filed wrong and it took them five years to find it, that his confessions weren't given to police in an interview room, but over a recorded phone line that we haven't heard, that in the beginning they were looking for more than one person, but changed their minds after arresting RA?

Also, a man who's never had a violent past, or since the two killings, just decided one day to kill two young girls?

That sounds more conspiratorial than the Odinist theory.
 
And it's your speculation that the two people who knew RL very well were completely wrong, that a guys file that admitted to being there was "accidentally" filed wrong and it took them five years to find it, that his confessions weren't given to police in an interview room, but over a recorded phone line that we haven't heard, that in the beginning they were looking for more than one person, but changed their minds after arresting RA?

Also, a man who's never had a violent past, or since the two killings, just decided one day to kill two young girls?

That sounds more conspiratorial than the Odinist theory.
First, RL was never charged so those two former girlfriends were wrong.

Second, they put the wrong surname so it was filed under Whiteman not Allen.

They have only ever been looking for one - BG. However he had accomplices in KK IMO.

We don't know his past. No convictions are evident but he could still have unknown violent and paedo tendencies. He has a lot of weapons in his house, for instance.

He has confessed.
 
First, RL was never charged so those two former girlfriends were wrong.

Second, they put the wrong surname so it was filed under Whiteman not Allen.

They have only ever been looking for one - BG. However he had accomplices in KK IMO.

We don't know his past. No convictions are evident but he could still have unknown violent and paedo tendencies. He has a lot of weapons in his house, for instance.

He has confessed.

He (could) have had pedo tendencies. There is no evidence he did. Again, that's another assumption you're making.

Jesse Miskelly confessed too.

It wasn't two girlfriends. One was a cousin who's known him all of his life. He wasn't charged because the SW was so limited.

Now he's dead and they can't question him anymore. RA may have actually been involved, but he didn't act alone. They were looking for more than one person since day one.

Suddenly, they aren't. They have DNA and fingerprints that don't match RA. You can call this an assumption, but in every case I can remember, the prosecution has said that the DNA and prints match the suspect.

The very first PC about LISK, it's what they lead off with.
 
He (could) have had pedo tendencies. There is no evidence he did. Again, that's another assumption you're making.

Jesse Miskelly confessed too.

It wasn't two girlfriends. One was a cousin who's known him all of his life. He wasn't charged because the SW was so limited.

Now he's dead and they can't question him anymore. RA may have actually been involved, but he didn't act alone. They were looking for more than one person since day one.

Suddenly, they aren't. They have DNA and fingerprints that don't match RA. You can call this an assumption, but in every case I can remember, the prosecution has said that the DNA and prints match the suspect.

The very first PC about LISK, it's what they lead off with.
All you state about RL are assumptions so you cannot criticise any I make. Your acid one against the guards is a big assumption. Also, where's your evidence they were looking for more than one? Libby only caught one BG on video, for instance but if you count KK and A-Shots, there are more than one. RA fits so closely, it's like a glove. As for him not having paedo tendencies, he abducted two teens and has a link with KK (the link with A-shots planning to meet but RA turning up).

The DNA/fingerprints could well be on the bullet and/or on the top that Abby borrowed as it was one that Kelsie had in her car. Or it could be from any sexual assault he carried out. They have kept that underwraps so we don't have more info about that but they don't need it ATM when they have him and his vehicle on tape as well as his info he was there and his confessions on tape to his wife and mother. It is such a ton of evidence against him.
 
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PLEASE
Talk about the case. Not each other. The nitpicking and name calling is making this thread harder to read than normal.
Do not call people conspiracy theorists, liars, crazy, stupid, etc. If you disagree with someone, that's fine. State that you disagree, and why (if you'd like) and leave it at that.

If you are stating something as a fact, it is helpful to provide a source. Otherwise, people may choose to dismiss what you are saying. If it's not a fact, acknowledge that it is your opinion or a theory.
If you ask someone to provide a source/link to their statement and they do not (whether by choice or because one does not exist), the best course of action is to simply choose to ignore or dismiss what they are saying, without adding personal insults.
 
IMO, we'd already know both. They told us they matched the unspent shell markings to his gun. So why hold back on telling us it's RA's fingerprint on the shell? Why wouldn't they tell us they have a match on the cat's DNA? Every police investigation holds some things back so if somebody gives out some of that evidence in an interview they'll ask how they know that. They never said anything about the unspent bullet until much later and after RAs arrest, IIRC.

So why would they hold back a fingerprint match and DNA evidence? In fact the press conference for LISK led off with the DNA match so people would be certain they'd gotten the right guy and could relax, IMO.

I'm re-listening to this video:

It was made approx. 6 months prior to RAs arrest.




Logans voice was rated "not inconsistent with the voice on the phone saying 'Down the hill.'"

The girls bodies were moved and staged. They were staged. They were not just lying around after they'd been killed. The killer moved them and staged them in a certain way. What way? Why? Is the staging in an Odinist fashion the way they were staged?

Fibers and hairs were found that should be useful in identifying the killer. Have any been linked to RA? We'd probably know about that by now.

The search warrant of RLs property was limited to firearms and his main residence. There's a barn they didn't search and a lot of other places on his land.

Logan's cousin was instructed by Logan to tell the police he came to take Logan to the fish store between 2pm and 2:30pm on February 13th and they returned home around five or 5:30pm. The fish store receipt said it was 5:21pm. Logan must have had a time machine to accomplish that. That phone call came on the morning of the 14th before the bodies were found. When a subject creates an alibi prior to the discovery of a crime it indicates culpability, in investigators experience. Logan never asked his cousin to lie about his driving to the transfer station.

An LEO told Logan, while asking for permission to search his house, that they would not search Logan's house unless they had evidence to lead them to that. Logan said he didn't think they'd find evidence like that, but then said: "I don't know."

Logan's cousin also told the police that the picture of BG looked like Logan.

As soon as a woman who'd been having a sexual relationship with Logan was interviewed she said that when she first heard about the finding of Libby and Abby's bodies she thought immediately that Logan was somehow involved.

There's more and there's a analysis of why he would ask his cousin to lie without it being tied to the murders.

There are a lot of questions you say you don't have an answer for, or have a "he could have..." You've convicted him on very little evidence.

Why would Allen tell police he was in the park if he did the crime?


@Tresir ^^^^ Watch this video it will answer a lot of your questions. I have included the posts where I breakdown the video.

Another thing from the video: 23:53

When the video was made in May 2022, they had no witness' saying they saw someone coming from the crime scene covered in blood and soaking wet. So where did this magic witness that saw a muddy and bloody guy come from?

The FBI agent narrator also believes more than one guy was involved in this. Logan could have gotten back to his house without anybody seeing him. Thus the invention of muddy/bloody witness for RA.

^^^ The FBI narrator believes more than one guy was involved.


First, RL was never charged so those two former girlfriends were wrong.

Second, they put the wrong surname so it was filed under Whiteman not Allen.

They have only ever been looking for one - BG. However he had accomplices in KK IMO.

We don't know his past. No convictions are evident but he could still have unknown violent and paedo tendencies. He has a lot of weapons in his house, for instance.

He has confessed.
 
Also, in one of the videos, I forget which one and where, but it's said that 15 people called the tip line on the first day saying it had to be RL.
 
Well I did say I thought he was perhaps helping himself a bit too much at work but is acid even a thing these days? So many other new and weird drugs these days.
I see it as nothing but wild imagination of a bird with absolutely no basis or hint of such a thing. The bird is simply making up excuses and imaginary scenarios to account for RA's confessions. His attorneys claimed no acid did they? Psheesh it is so ridiculous there aren't words. Yeah, acid. Now Odinists are acid users and dealers. LMAO.

I'm actually glad I think that I can't keep up here right now. I see new news elsewhere generally and that's enough for me. All in here right now is pretty much circular. With some new out there thing thrown once in awhile, like acid, where the rest is on repeat.

I'll be fair in that we each have our own opinions and that's where it is stuck.
And it's your speculation that the two people who knew RL very well were completely wrong, that a guys file that admitted to being there was "accidentally" filed wrong and it took them five years to find it, that his confessions weren't given to police in an interview room, but over a recorded phone line that we haven't heard, that in the beginning they were looking for more than one person, but changed their minds after arresting RA?

Also, a man who's never had a violent past, or since the two killings, just decided one day to kill two young girls?

That sounds more conspiratorial than the Odinist theory.
Two people who had reason to want it to be Logan for one thing, just as ex's who call in about their spouses do. You diss some eyewitness testimony but then trust eyewitnesses of ex girlfriends, etc. of RL when his height also was NOT in the range nor was the age. You do such constantly in complete hypocrisy.

Basically NO ONE is stuck on RL and I may even contact Linda and ask her what she thinks these days because you get a bee in yuur bonnet or on your ceiling and you're done for, no talking to ya Big Bird.

Yeah and why was that some DNR guy was sent out to like meet RA in a grocery store or whatever it was like some casual friendly get together... I think you are smelling the wrong scents in the wrong direction... Possibly anyhow...

Chad and Lori had no violent past. I could name a ton of others. We all could.

I don't buy into any conspiracy here except for thinking there very like is some kind of KK connection whether big or very small.

And I sure the heck have never seen a hint of drugs in this case much less ACID.

I don't like Doolin's screw ups believe me. I'll not try to gloss over that at all or excuse it as you try to do with everything that doesn't work for what you WANT it to be. It is pretty extreme to have to come up with acid to explain confessions.

No we haven't heard the confessions, none of the public has. I don't see however the defense clamoring to have them released and saying we will see he was out of his mind on acid or some such and telling us and all we will dismiss them because it is so obvious. Do you see them wanting them played? I mean the want a lot of other evidence leaked oh and have ensured such was done... Not those though I guess. They want to pick and choose which is exactly what they've been doing.

I'd LOVE to hear those confessions not just for context and the confessions themselves but the voice which is a dead ringer which he tries to avoid being heard BUT I heard the one that was no doubt definitely HIM. Of course defense doesn't want them heard. Think about it. For many reasons. You act as if it is the court or prosecutorial side keeping them from the public but B & R yell about all else, why not about those if he is so CLEARLY on acid or some such? Huh?

Whatever happened, whether one or two, etc., Allen was and is a murderer imo in this case. No one can or ever has been able to remove him and if they try, his bullet says otherwise.

And it's laughable that they framed him being they never knew of him and the bullet has been around for years and he admitted to having a gun that turned out to be the match. Now THAT is farfetched. I saw someone laugh at and tell someone that in Webster''s chat area the other night. It is sooooo farfetched.

If there was ANY corruption here it was someone ensuring RA was not looked at further or thought of as a suspect (Doolin?) and perhaps the "rogue" cops that kind of set on their own "O" thing instead of anyone looking at RA or knowing of him........ If true of course.... Somehow it was kept wasn't it from most in LE it seems... I mean that RA was there...

You're so bent on every defendant being innocent or railtroaded, you can't look at the whole picture and see there may be corruption of a few in LE but not in the direction you think...

However, I also don't know. I'm not bent on any conspiracy or corruption, my main thought is RA is the murderer and he alone. I am open to someone else having been involved but I don't lean hard to it and it sure wouldn't be him and a bunch of Os. But any scenario at all has RA front and center.

I will say this though, Doolin should be out of a job if he isn't. And darned well should be talked to, publicly recorded or seen, to judge HIS honesty.

Delphi is five or six thou people. Tell me after all this time who Rick's friends were? And Kathy's? We know they hung at a local bar and he did dart or pool league or some such. Bar owner said a bit one time.

I find it VERY interesting and impressive that the eyewitnesses and people that knew Kathy and Rick are keeping their mouths shut and I'm guessing ensuring they don't affect the case and justice for the girls. Not a single eyewitness to my knowledge has leaked a thing or went on any show in ALL these years. Prosecution also stays mum, impressed by that too. The only problem leakers and ones lacking ethics are the defense team...
 
First, RL was never charged so those two former girlfriends were wrong.

Second, they put the wrong surname so it was filed under Whiteman not Allen.

They have only ever been looking for one - BG. However he had accomplices in KK IMO.

We don't know his past. No convictions are evident but he could still have unknown violent and paedo tendencies. He has a lot of weapons in his house, for instance.

He has confessed.
As I said, Chad and Lori had no criminal past or convictions either. And tons of others. It means little.

Lots of screwups around Doolin. I do not defend Doolin. Or however and whoever Allen's coming forward got so messed up. But I lean towards him, all the follow up recommendation said was find te girls RA mentioned, NOT to follow up on RA. DUH.
 
First, RL was never charged so those two former girlfriends were wrong.

Second, they put the wrong surname so it was filed under Whiteman not Allen.

They have only ever been looking for one - BG. However he had accomplices in KK IMO.

We don't know his past. No convictions are evident but he could still have unknown violent and paedo tendencies. He has a lot of weapons in his house, for instance.

He has confessed.
Agree with all you said by the way. I think there's more to RA than has ever been caught or known...
 
He (could) have had pedo tendencies. There is no evidence he did. Again, that's another assumption you're making.

Jesse Miskelly confessed too.

It wasn't two girlfriends. One was a cousin who's known him all of his life. He wasn't charged because the SW was so limited.

Now he's dead and they can't question him anymore. RA may have actually been involved, but he didn't act alone. They were looking for more than one person since day one.

Suddenly, they aren't. They have DNA and fingerprints that don't match RA. You can call this an assumption, but in every case I can remember, the prosecution has said that the DNA and prints match the suspect.

The very first PC about LISK, it's what they lead off with.
Assuming acid is a far bigger leap than someone arrested who is charged with killing two young girls and who found the at a place a known pedo/sex ring/drop box/fake profile bunch of sh*t was planning to meet Libby. There is a LOT there. Acid has never before been brought up and it relates to noting.

As for the gf and cousin, easily explainable. Cousin knew he asked him to lie and why.... Gf had no love lost for him. Also neither were the FBI or LE knowing RL was not a fit. And again you dismiss other eyewitnesses who were THERE, these people were not, and you pick and choose claims and who said they saw what. Cousin and gf saw what we all did, a very grainy image of a man on the bridge, you go on about height with RA but never with RL. That was no skinny tall man on the bridge nor an old man. Again you pick and choose to fit your story which is what people yell about if it is LE that does that.

I have never heard that LE has ruled out the possibility of more than one. They've kept all they can hushed unlike defense who only outs what helps them or they "think" helps them.

Plus investigations continue duh. Maybe RA's own confessions said he was the only... He confessed emu and he wasn't on acid. Maybe LE has ruled it out based on further evidence and investigation but again I've never seen them say it's been ruled out.

As little s I am here and the tons of posts I missed, even so I've seen you going on about DNA and fingerprints. Link please? And even if ruled out, what kind of DNA and prints are we talking of and on what? Answers to that please. Tell me did it rule out the Os also named by the defense? Did both match RL?

Not going to be here much longer and again can't catch up, no time or really, interest either. But you are entitled to your opinion as are we all of course, but you keep relentlessly pushing yours as if you are going to pound it until others change to your opinion. I don't. I don't think Tresir does. I don't care if you or anyone agrees nor am I sure I am right. No one can be sure of that in any case not concluded or all facts known. Its' like you need or want to make everyone see it or agree. Well I don't. And won't force mine down your throat beating it like a dead horse or come up with way out there things like guards forcing acid an Allen. That's the kind of stuff they talk about with SM or internet kooks gone crazy and making up stuff they hope becomes passed on and fact. It's also right up there with that ridiculous O filing wanting the same to happen.

Also comparing it to LISK?? And what they came out with? I'm not even going to waste my breath on the differences and the whys or why nots. Manhattan/LI. Delphi. Politics and wanting press. Wanting none basically. Serial killer LONG AT LARGE, DECADES. One crime, five years, small area. And we could go on. In LISK there was so much mud on them from the former powers that were.... This was a far bigger fish caught with a LOT more victims. I'm done, could go on, but finished. It isn't worth it. I'm sure most can see the reason they aren't comparable and are apples to oranges. In sooooo many ways.
 
All you state about RL are assumptions so you cannot criticise any I make. Your acid one against the guards is a big assumption. Also, where's your evidence they were looking for more than one? Libby only caught one BG on video, for instance but if you count KK and A-Shots, there are more than one. RA fits so closely, it's like a glove. As for him not having paedo tendencies, he abducted two teens and has a link with KK (the link with A-shots planning to meet but RA turning up).

The DNA/fingerprints could well be on the bullet and/or on the top that Abby borrowed as it was one that Kelsie had in her car. Or it could be from any sexual assault he carried out. They have kept that underwraps so we don't have more info about that but they don't need it ATM when they have him and his vehicle on tape as well as his info he was there and his confessions on tape to his wife and mother. It is such a ton of evidence against him.
Very well said.

The acid assumption is pretty HUGELY out there without any basis at all. Imo it is what one calls getting desperate to find an explanation and make something fit that does so and again, desperate to do so to come up with such.
 
As I said, Chad and Lori had no criminal past or convictions either. And tons of others. It means little.

Lots of screwups around Doolin. I do not defend Doolin. Or however and whoever Allen's coming forward got so messed up. But I lean towards him, all the follow up recommendation said was find te girls RA mentioned, NOT to follow up on RA. DUH.

Chad and Lori had motive. What's RAs, without making a guess?
 
If it wasn't so frustrating I'd really have to laugh.

First of all, the ISC left Gull in place. The higher court ruled.

Second of all B & R also wanted a ruling on speedy trial which they never filed for and so was a moot point.

Now they are reinstated but lost on the other two points and where is their filing for speedy trial? Instead they are looking for delays and even though I'm rarely here pretty sure i predicted this many pages back. It was a no brainer.

Why are they not going for speedy??

They said hey we are ready, researched, etc. and want to go.

So file it and let's go.

Send out the two clowns and their unlicensed failing friend rather than bringing in the clowns. How I see it. Jmo.
 

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