LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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No, it's a show of incompetence. They should have had a single file for people they wanted to check out further. They weren't looking at him as the guy back in 2017. Suddenly, just before a Sheriff's election they found it. He may have helped, but why? All anybody has right now is speculation. My speculation isn't any different from anyone elses speculation here.



Well, it's one of the things they held back, as they should, but it's matching seems a bit odd, to me. The fact that in the beginning they were certain that more than one person was involved, but after arresting RA it became one person.

All I'm trying to say is that what any of us have is speculation. After studying so many cases I've seen hinky stuff being done in order to just solve a case, guilt or innocence be damned. (I.E. Charles Merritt and Ruben "The Hurricane" Carter, The WM3 and cases from the innocence project.) I don't take what the prosecution says and just believe it. They don't have his DNA or fingerprints at the scene. Who knows what they have they're holding back from the defense.
Agree that it was incompetence from DD. But at that point they were attempting to find out who all the people on the trail were and his name and address got taken down wrong and lost. Why didn't RA contact them again when he saw himself on the bridge and heard his own voice?

We don't know what/whose fingerprints/DNA they have but if they have retrieved items belonging to the girls from his house search, that along with the bullet and Libby's video will be enough evidence IMO.

More than one was involved in the catfish. KK and RA.
 
I dont believe so. I'm pretty sure they knew he wasn't an attorney.
Who knew he wasn't an attorney? We only just found out. I don't know when the Defence found out but it certainly wasnt brought up at the ISC and it probably would have been if they knew about it then. He was an unlicensed attorney working on the case in contravention of a gag order and purposely leaked documents and photos didn't he?

That's how I understand it anyway.
 
Who knew he wasn't an attorney? We only just found out. I don't know when the Defence found out but it certainly wasnt brought up at the ISC and it probably would have been if they knew about it then. He was an unlicensed attorney working on the case in contravention of a gag order and purposely leaked documents and photos didn't he?

That's how I understand it anyway.
You can have consultants and other employees working on a case in an attorney's office. They aren't all attorneys there.
 

 
You can have consultants and other employees working on a case in an attorney's office. They aren't all attorneys there.
They hid the fact. Lied. What was said is he was just; some FORMER employee visiting, a friend visiting. If you look back through this thread I suspected he was working for or with them throughout, there was NO real reason to outright, it just seemed a natural thing to speculate as to what was really going on. And that's exactly what was going on. And more.

Sure attorneys can have other staff but he was said to be a FORMER employee. Also things were to not be leaked, under gag. They not only had him around file evidence but were providing him with all.

I suggested many a time that he wrote the FM. Why would I come to that thought when none of us were told he was working for them and just stopped to visit a friend at the office as a former employee and friend? Well for one he didn't finish law school and for two, if this is how B & R "speak" in filings, then they aren't the professionals anyone thinks. I said it was like it was written by a high schooler...And then we had a man leaking who failed the bar and apparently never tried again or just can't pass it. I figured 2+2 equaled close to five lol.... Meaning maybe he was 85 percent of the FM and they were the rest.

I could go on and on. Only those bent on having to believe these attorneys are moral heroes can ignore what's very obvious here and just keeps coming out at least in my case confirming suspicions I had...

I think they've been cut more breaks behind the scene than you think, even by Gull, to not destroy their careers and they're lucky but they just can't learn. I think more is known than we know and as the new surprises (to some) that have come out, clearly there was more known and still is is my bet of what they have pulled. However, they just never learn do they...

On another note, I love how she pointed out her staying on was unanimous with the ISC. She simply let their decision stand lol. And why not? I'd defer to that too.

Sorry but I have trouble getting not being able to see through the defense bull and the "trio" (f not more, with the leaking chain but they did lose part of their leaking chain to suicide) and ALL THEIR antics and shady corrupt ways.

If they had a lick of sense they'd find a way to leave and save some pretend semblance that they are good, ethical, professional attorneys. They won't though. I don't believe for a minute either they care about Allen, just selves. I never will based on ALL I've seen from the start, even before all the major b.s. of the last months.

I'm listening to Tom Webster live right now about Westerman being a "former" employee lol. Talk about timing as I just talked of it while having that audio on..

Oh well, you and I are clearly just always going to disagree and that's okay. I remember you some months back being shocked that these two attorneys doing as they did and not wanting to believe it but it was clear you saw some had to be believed and then all the blizzard came they sent and you found a way imo to decide all of it wasn't so and they're awesome guys.

I disagree. The timing and what they have done and pulled even all the way back is obvious as he77.

No offense as always. Disagree as we usually do though.
 
Because they are nowhere near ready and don't have a defence for their client. They should just have RA plead insanity.
They don't have an insanity defense imo and they know it and don't want the records out. Lol.

What they should have done was LET their client do as he was wanting to do which was confess and plead guilty imo. But THEY could NOT HAVE that.

I personally think B & R's failure led RA to confess what he truly did. Or contributed. And that was one of the reasons they couldn't have it and had to influence him otherwise.

Jmo.

And yeah, I don't believe they were ready for a speedy trial for an instant. Everything throughout indicates just the opposite.
 
Not sure what you mean. What hearing about them? Didnt they request one. I may be getting confused.
Join the club as confused here too. R & B didn't want to go to the hearing the day they left with tail between legs. ISC reinstated them no? As for Gull the big court did not do as they asked and remove Gull. How is it it was a hearing only for one side and not the other? There's been no local hearing about either no? Color me confused too as to this comment.
 
The contempt hearing is based on new evidence isn't it? The fact he was working as an unlicensed lawyer with access to documentation against the gag order.
This imo still had an ongoing investigation when B & R started whining to the ISC and filing. Imo that's a big part of why they did it and so fast as the knew what the findings would be, knew things were being found out, etc.

For me, hearing he was unlicensed and failed the bar came out in ALL of this sh*t at the time of the leak, suicide and more. But ya know he was just an old buddy, a former employee so what difference would that make anyhow... Mm-hmm.
 
Agree that it was incompetence from DD. But at that point they were attempting to find out who all the people on the trail were and his name and address got taken down wrong and lost. Why didn't RA contact them again when he saw himself on the bridge and heard his own voice?

We don't know what/whose fingerprints/DNA they have but if they have retrieved items belonging to the girls from his house search, that along with the bullet and Libby's video will be enough evidence IMO.

More than one was involved in the catfish. KK and RA.
Can't disagree with any of it. Not always the case but you and I are very much on the same page in this one. I do think RA may have acted alone though but I'm not against that he didn't in some way and I do think the KK thing will play in in some way.
 
That's the point. He wasn't a bone fide defence lawyer so should not have been on the case with R & B. I'm not sure what you are questioning really.
Not to mention they sent him the FM for review. WHY do TWO supposedly licensed, well practiced professional attorneys seek the advice and opion of one who couldn't pass the bar? Almost seems like they defer to HIS opinion and seek his take. That's just strange or means the two D attys feel they know less than this unlicensed one. Seriously, think about that. Imo it is because it wasn't his only job and purpose for one. Leaking of course was a part of his job description and I think he probably had a few other things he was to do as well...
 
Who knew he wasn't an attorney? We only just found out. I don't know when the Defence found out but it certainly wasnt brought up at the ISC and it probably would have been if they knew about it then. He was an unlicensed attorney working on the case in contravention of a gag order and purposely leaked documents and photos didn't he?

That's how I understand it anyway.
We've known he was unlicensed for some months, at least i have or learned it all around this leak and time of the defense blizzards to keep imo talk and investigation from coming out with more on it all, etc.

Defense however said he was just a former employee and friend (LIES) and I think we were all to figure who cares if he is unlicensed, he was no emploiyee, he jsut stopped by to say hi to B after all and helped himself to some photos without B's knowledge. BS! Always was BS!

As for B & R of course they always knew he failed the bar and was unlicensed imo and that's why his "former" employment with them was not as a practicing attorney right?

Who knows, maybe he is the smartest of the three... Maybe B & R paid someone to pass the bar and MW just didn't have the funds but was the better student... LOL. I'm being sarcastic but it IS like they defer to him and seek his advice... But really he was the one that did the dirty stuff so they looked clean for one... God it has always been so obvious imo. ALWAYS. Before all known. It was an obvious and easy dot to dot.
 
They hid the fact. Lied. What was said is he was just; some FORMER employee visiting, a friend visiting. If you look back through this thread I suspected he was working for or with them throughout, there was NO real reason to outright, it just seemed a natural thing to speculate as to what was really going on. And that's exactly what was going on. And more.

Sure attorneys can have other staff but he was said to be a FORMER employee. Also things were to not be leaked, under gag. They not only had him around file evidence but were providing him with all.

I suggested many a time that he wrote the FM. Why would I come to that thought when none of us were told he was working for them and just stopped to visit a friend at the office as a former employee and friend? Well for one he didn't finish law school and for two, if this is how B & R "speak" in filings, then they aren't the professionals anyone thinks. I said it was like it was written by a high schooler...And then we had a man leaking who failed the bar and apparently never tried again or just can't pass it. I figured 2+2 equaled close to five lol.... Meaning maybe he was 85 percent of the FM and they were the rest.

I could go on and on. Only those bent on having to believe these attorneys are moral heroes can ignore what's very obvious here and just keeps coming out at least in my case confirming suspicions I had...

I think they've been cut more breaks behind the scene than you think, even by Gull, to not destroy their careers and they're lucky but they just can't learn. I think more is known than we know and as the new surprises (to some) that have come out, clearly there was more known and still is is my bet of what they have pulled. However, they just never learn do they...

On another note, I love how she pointed out her staying on was unanimous with the ISC. She simply let their decision stand lol. And why not? I'd defer to that too.

Sorry but I have trouble getting not being able to see through the defense bull and the "trio" (f not more, with the leaking chain but they did lose part of their leaking chain to suicide) and ALL THEIR antics and shady corrupt ways.

If they had a lick of sense they'd find a way to leave and save some pretend semblance that they are good, ethical, professional attorneys. They won't though. I don't believe for a minute either they care about Allen, just selves. I never will based on ALL I've seen from the start, even before all the major b.s. of the last months.

I'm listening to Tom Webster live right now about Westerman being a "former" employee lol. Talk about timing as I just talked of it while having that audio on..

Oh well, you and I are clearly just always going to disagree and that's okay. I remember you some months back being shocked that these two attorneys doing as they did and not wanting to believe it but it was clear you saw some had to be believed and then all the blizzard came they sent and you found a way imo to decide all of it wasn't so and they're awesome guys.

I disagree. The timing and what they have done and pulled even all the way back is obvious as he77.

No offense as always. Disagree as we usually do though.
1. Please don't put words in my mouth.

2. Please stop trying to gaslight/manipulate me. You DO mean offense.

Thank you.
 
You can have consultants and other employees working on a case in an attorney's office. They aren't all attorneys there.
Yes. But if they leak stuff they are in contempt. Westerman is the same. But in addition he lied and did not admit he was working for them. In fact he lied and said he wasn't working for them didn't he and leaked the stuff?
You can have consultants and other employees working on a case in an attorney's office. They aren't all attorneys there.
I realise that but nobody else was as stupid as him and leaked CS photos in contravention of a gag order. What's the point of a gag order otherwise. Why would you support someone who did that?

I can see this is getting heated so we will just have to agree to disagree and let the court decide what he did wrong.
 
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So Gull will now let the appeal court decide as I think is what the ISC expected to happen.

Not sure about the destroyed evidence request. I guess there will be a hearing on that. This was immediately after the murders. So the time of the Dulin interview of RA? Importantly they didnt lose Libby's video though.

When will they get on with the actual case rather than all these side issues?
 
1. Please don't put words in my mouth.

2. Please stop trying to gaslight/manipulate me. You DO mean offense.

Thank you.
I put no words in your mouth, I paraphrased what you said back when when it came out what Baldwin allegedly did, is that what you are talking about?

And no I don't mean offense but I am going to state my opinions while listening to others with theirs with strong opinions the other way about judges, prosecutors,and even their own ISC who I'm sure you're probably disappointed in in leaving Gull on the bench in the case and not moving RA to county, etc., etc.

I am not gaslighting anyone, we are all big girls and boys and your use of that word says enough of how you think imo.

I don't care what anyone's opinion is, I'm out of here more than anyone on this thread no? And I am not pushing my theory on anyone with RA or KK, I just state it is my theory here and there. I am not emu trying to do I don't known what convince all in here that RL did it. Nor am I trying to take down the precious B & R as they are trying to take down the judge as are their supporters. I don't know all nor do you nor does anyone even Olenna in all her wisdom of what is going on and the court will do or claiming they have spoken when all it was each time was a defense filing.

It's pretty sickening really with two young girls dead. I can't even imagine being their families.

The only thing I go on about the RARE time I am in here is responding to what is thought of with the defense etc. I don't try to convince on who I think did it which is RA nor care if anyone agrees. And of misinformation and of Gull.

I have said before and it is in this thread that maybe they all need to go. Whatever.

As far as manipulating you, that's downright funny. And gaslighting. The only thing I do is give the other side of things and try to correct the little bit I understand to be wrong. I don't claim to be an expert like some in here whether it is about rights or thinking they know whether a defense filing is a decision by a supreme court. I do know that much to not fall for that CLEAR agenda laden crap.

I'm still waiting for a link and answer to where it was ever said RA is 5'0. ZERO.

And don't get your panties in a wad, I know you didn't say that and try to start new misinformation spreading around.

I have no issue staying off this thread. And do so often for long periods of time. There are other cases that most don't care much about. I could make a nasteri remark about another thread and what I'd think you'd still be worried about as if the world was ending but I won't.

Gaslighting. Manipulation. Wow. I hate buzz words. While you're at it can I have you diagnose a few others?

Think what you like. All I do is simply not let stand what I don't believe to be true or show the other side.

And yes, I have opinions.

If you state something I don't agree with or believe not to be true I am not going to wilt, I am simply going to say so but NO, it is not directed at the poster but the topic, believe it or not.

I'd do the same no matter who posted.

Don't take your upset over Allen out on me. Or do. Whatever. I'll take it. And even understand it.

You are one who said leave RL along way back when and while I haven't said that, I am done with the RL thing too, we agree on that one actually and I'm a bit sick of hearing about RL and pretty much say so to emu but you only see that I opine to you I guess and that's gaslighting and manipulation?

I've had a long day and apparently you aren't having your best one.

Do not worry, I can scroll and roll or stay out of the thread all together. It's funny where there are far more chatters there is less agenda than in here and no, I don't mean you.

Maybe you should actually give a sh*t about some other cases. Or don't.

I am sorry you feel the way you do. And if I deserve it and just can't see it, then I accept it. Sorry.
 
Where's @Olenna In all this? I want to know what she thinks about what is going on in R&B's offices.

Can we all try and get on? We all want justice for the girls and their families rather than the circus that is happening.
 
Just ran into this. I'm not a regular watcher of his but let's see who watches it. Emu should like it as a lot of it is him on Vinnie and Court TV who emu loves. None of it is about RL. I starts out with him talking about the case there is and still is until the defense and conspiracy theorists tried to wrench it with their b.s. I am paraphrasing. And he give all the reasons that the case is strong.



Give a listen if ya want and don't if ya don't want.

@Tresir I'm fine with getting along. I remember being told by Roundpeg that my opinions or something on that order come from what happened to my grandchild and she was sorry that made me so vitriolic or hateful or bitter or something like that. Talk about assuming and thinking she knew. I advised her that had nothing to do with it. I have always been strong against perps, law, etc., hurting innocents whether elderly, young or any victime at all. Long before a thing happened in my own family. Mel had no such thing and does she assume @Mel70 's strong opinions come from such, stronger than mine actually, no of course not. Just with me I guess because she can assume that's the reason.

It didn't matter, but I knew she took me wrong before and always. Apparently still does. That's fine. I have an opinion where she is concerned too but I don't voice it, never have, but it isn't a nasty one, it is more on the order of naive or having to believe what she believes sometimes. And I'm probably wrong there as she very much is about me.

I'm fine, not sure about her since she thinks I am gaslighting and MANIPULATING. Wow. Who have I manipulated? Her? Emu? No one here is strong enough to deal and debate, even argue lol? You and i have certainly had some go rounds and I love that never is it taken personally, you just come back to it, keep talking it, so do I. And emu? Nothing rocks his beliefs and faith. Lol. Right now it is RL and a broken record for those of us old enough to know what a broken record reference means.

I don't need it. Manipulative and a gaslighter.

But' whatever. And I've asked Olenna a ton of things to no avail on occasion. Most recent was where the link was in RA being 5' ZERO. Someone should go listen to Tom Webster tonight on the mug shots and height.

Anyhow, this stuff is being put in here like the 5' zero thing, just another one meant to slip in and I guess become urban legacy...

But even there and with her, I love a good discussion and debate.

And as we have seen Olenna can more than hold her own. Even if I feel she throws biased and false sh*t out there lol. But kudos to a point.

You and I have butted heads. I with you and @RoundPeg have butted heads. This time you and I are on the same page but with her I am gaslighting and manipulating her I guess. I guess I am a square hole to her round peg. Whatever.

I truly don't mean anything that way but maybe she looks for it in life or has had people do such to her and maybe I do it or come across that way and don't realize, I don't know.

If anyone thinks though that the victims and the families are not first and foremost to me, then they are really clueless.

I also mean what I've said about her state and I could say that about mine or any, it bites but don't yell at me if your own ISC didn't do as you wanted, don't yell at me if an IN judge didn't do as you wanted, try to change what you think is wrong and good luck with it and just PERHAPS they know better and they don't fall for the b.s. and smoke and mirrors.

In Harmony's case right now (and there ARE other cases out there, I know you know and good for you for checking those new threads out, nice to see some other active ones imo, and interesting and new to us), the judge is giving the defendant the choice every day of trial at the last minute to let them know if he wants to go to court or not. WHAT???? HE is charged, HE wanted to take it all the way to trial but he doesn't have to be there and sit in court nor the jury see him, etc. if he chooses not to go in a trial HE caused and insisted on.

Anyhow whatever. To heck with victims and let's go for defendants and let defense games win out and now defendant doesn't even have to attend his own trial

Long day. I HOPE to watch some of the Montgomery trial tomorrow or more like listen to it while I try to put out other fires I have to take care of.

As far as getting along, imo we are and I am fine with all but doesn't mean I'm not going to say anything in response and if someone feels I am gaslighting or manipulating then I'm fine with leaving the thread. I mostly had anyhow. I'm out of it for days on end and way behind.


All is good. Imo anyhow. Not that I agree i gaslight or manipulate but I'm fine with leaving it alone and this particular thread since it is about the only one one or two are ever on and obsess with.

Couldn't help that one :D
 
Okay, I'm in a mood.

The Delphi Murders: Leaked Crime Scene Photographs

^^^ Crime Scene Photos (apparently unauthorized) Leaks ... story above at Murder Sheet.

With all due respect - these MS people give me a headache. I have tried them out. It's always the same thing.
One minute of important info ... they take 33 minutes. They repeat each other over and over and over.
The useful info for each podcast is somewhere around 22 minutes in and takes less time than the commercial.

ON this particular podcast ... you don't need to waste your time. I wasted mine for y'all:.

here's the newest poop:

Someone leaked some of this case's crime scene photos. Now they're all over the internets.

Murder Sheet is too uppity to participate in spreading leaked photos. Shame shame shame on everyone else, and while MS is shaming its listeners, MS take this opportunity to tell me, and their listeners, to stop being ... jerks ....

MS wants me to be nice?
They don't know me.
Who do they think they are? LOL.

(Agree that MS did good by not sharing. And yes, it's devastating for the families of A&L and disrespectful to those innocent girls. But why tell me what I already know ... for 26 minutes? Also, I'm pretty sure MS wants an award for not showing crime scene photos.)

After they received the photos, MS (apparently) did not immediately turn photos into LE. Why did they take their sweet time? Because they weren't able to confirm they were real. At some point a "friend" delivered them same photos, while providing some deep intel (text screen shots) as to who leaked the photos. The friend was chicken to go to LE and asked MS to do so.

The motive of the leak? MS suggests, as they refuse to describe the leaked photos of the crime scene, that the photos might support the defense? Not sure how. MS didn't say. Maybe the "staging" theory part? (Just really weak on crime scene photos and very strong on shaming any one in the MS audience that thinks they should get to look at crime scene photos. Shame shame shame shame on all of you you you you.)

So they turned the photos into Indiana LE.
And LE said thank you.
(Also, I'm pretty sure MS wants another award for doing the right thing by ringing up LE).

(By then, the photos were all over the internet. But still. MS did the right thing. Which, apparently, involved doxing the Leaker to LE.)


No one knows how he Leaky Guy got the photos.
BUT ...
Leaky Guy has a FB!
And, MS "investigated" the hell out of it. Screenshot it. And stuff. So they could find out how Leaky Guy might have gotten the photos. (Like LE wasn't on it already?)

MS found out (gasp!) that a dude that might work or did work maybe sometime at one of the law firms of one of RA's attorneys ... was on Leaky Guy's FB.
MS is terribly excited about that and somehow concludes that the leak was from RA's attorneys.

(Now, this is a stretch. There's 6000 people in Delhi, right? Probably 1/4 of them on FB? What are the odds another Delhi person's on your Delhi FB? Like 33% ? Nevertheless...)

MS surmises - based on their sleuthing on Leaky Guy's FB intel - that the leak is from the Defense side. (REALLY???!!)
And MS has decided that the defense team is in huge trouble and RA's attorneys the Judge could easily throw them off the case. (That is patently absurd.)
And ... MS believes that the upcoming hearings are 100% about the leaks. (huh?)

Oh.
One more thing.

The Leaky Guy that allegedly leaked the crime photos?
That Leaky Guy MS blew into LE about 5 days ago ... Oh. By the way.
He committed suicide 2 days ago. :eek:

IMO, MS snuck that doozy in there ... just as if that's not the entire reason why they made a podcast about the leaks.

Meanwhile, MS spends the remaining 28 minutes shaming anyone who might have seen a leaked crime scene photo out there on the internets and chastises their viewers to delete it and not share it. B/C MS would never share such a thing b/c they respect victims' privacy.

If ya wanna listen to pretzel logic shaming on fire ... with a suicide packed in, have at it.

Otherwise don't bother. You've just read the 3 minute scoop.

The other 30 minutes of irrelevant stuff MS bangs on and lectures about are irrelevant and a complete waste of time.
Ok I am bringing Olenna's post forward as it is a good recap of the leak and what happened at the time. This was Oct 15th when she posted that.
 
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Just ran into this. I'm not a regular watcher of his but let's see who watches it. Emu should like it as a lot of it is him on Vinnie and Court TV who emu loves. None of it is about RL. I starts out with him talking about the case there is and still is until the defense and conspiracy theorists tried to wrench it with their b.s. I am paraphrasing. And he give all the reasons that the case is strong.



Give a listen if ya want and don't if ya don't want.

@Tresir I'm fine with getting along. I remember being told by Roundpeg that my opinions or something on that order come from what happened to my grandchild and she was sorry that made me so vitriolic or hateful or bitter or something like that. Talk about assuming and thinking she knew. I advised her that had nothing to do with it. I have always been strong against perps, law, etc., hurting innocents whether elderly, young or any victime at all. Long before a thing happened in my own family. Mel had no such thing and does she assume @Mel70 's strong opinions come from such, stronger than mine actually, no of course not. Just with me I guess because she can assume that's the reason.

It didn't matter, but I knew she took me wrong before and always. Apparently still does. That's fine. I have an opinion where she is concerned too but I don't voice it, never have, but it isn't a nasty one, it is more on the order of naive or having to believe what she believes sometimes. And I'm probably wrong there as she very much is about me.

I'm fine, not sure about her since she thinks I am gaslighting and MANIPULATING. Wow. Who have I manipulated? Her? Emu? No one here is strong enough to deal and debate, even argue lol? You and i have certainly had some go rounds and I love that never is it taken personally, you just come back to it, keep talking it, so do I. And emu? Nothing rocks his beliefs and faith. Lol. Right now it is RL and a broken record for those of us old enough to know what a broken record reference means.

I don't need it. Manipulative and a gaslighter.

But' whatever. And I've asked Olenna a ton of things to no avail on occasion. Most recent was where the link was in RA being 5' ZERO. Someone should go listen to Tom Webster tonight on the mug shots and height.

Anyhow, this stuff is being put in here like the 5' zero thing, just another one meant to slip in and I guess become urban legacy...

But even there and with her, I love a good discussion and debate.

And as we have seen Olenna can more than hold her own. Even if I feel she throws biased and false sh*t out there lol. But kudos to a point.

You and I have butted heads. I with you and @RoundPeg have butted heads. This time you and I are on the same page but with her I am gaslighting and manipulating her I guess. I guess I am a square hole to her round peg. Whatever.

I truly don't mean anything that way but maybe she looks for it in life or has had people do such to her and maybe I do it or come across that way and don't realize, I don't know.

If anyone thinks though that the victims and the families are not first and foremost to me, then they are really clueless.

I also mean what I've said about her state and I could say that about mine or any, it bites but don't yell at me if your own ISC didn't do as you wanted, don't yell at me if an IN judge didn't do as you wanted, try to change what you think is wrong and good luck with it and just PERHAPS they know better and they don't fall for the b.s. and smoke and mirrors.

In Harmony's case right now (and there ARE other cases out there, I know you know and good for you for checking those new threads out, nice to see some other active ones imo, and interesting and new to us), the judge is giving the defendant the choice every day of trial at the last minute to let them know if he wants to go to court or not. WHAT???? HE is charged, HE wanted to take it all the way to trial but he doesn't have to be there and sit in court nor the jury see him, etc. if he chooses not to go in a trial HE caused and insisted on.

Anyhow whatever. To heck with victims and let's go for defendants and let defense games win out and now defendant doesn't even have to attend his own trial

Long day. I HOPE to watch some of the Montgomery trial tomorrow or more like listen to it while I try to put out other fires I have to take care of.

As far as getting along, imo we are and I am fine with all but doesn't mean I'm not going to say anything in response and if someone feels I am gaslighting or manipulating then I'm fine with leaving the thread. I mostly had anyhow. I'm out of it for days on end and way behind.


All is good. Imo anyhow. Not that I agree i gaslight or manipulate but I'm fine with leaving it alone and this particular thread since it is about the only one one or two are ever on and obsess with.

Couldn't help that one :D

Don't overthink it. You said sorry. Sort of LOL.
I am looking into what we know and when about the F Memo and leak coming out. I told you that I saw a weird video that was claiming photos first leaked in Feb last year but they were the creek photos, which you have probably seen. Now the D are fighting back regarding the "lost DVR evidence". This case just keeps on giving.

Also we don't have many on the thread so please don't either of you leave or I will just be talking to Cuz. :grouphug:

No offence Cuz. :D
 

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