LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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So was he held at the Lafayette ISP post for two days then booked into the Carroll County jail on the morning of the 28th when he was officially arrested? Or did they (ISP) release him on the 26th and arrest him 2 days later?

From @Olenna post

"They held RA at the ISP station from the time of his questioning until he was booked into Carroll County, Delphi. Some suspected they arrested him without a warrant but I saw his probable cause covered a warrantless arrest."

Any proof he was held at the Lafayette ISP post for two days?

I've answered this above. But I now see that Round Peg does think that RA did go from ISP to CC jail on the 26th, just not booked into CC jail until the 28th. Maybe Round Peg has a reference?

For purposes of the motion - I'm not sure it matters - he's is in custody a time of interrogation so he (technically) needed to be freshly Mirandized. We'll see if the Prosecution can straighten all that out w/ documentation that satisfies the Court.

JMHO
 
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Skimmed at break and skimming now, do we have any of this linked from anything but a defense filing or excerpts? We know we don't have video, etc. or anything like that. No one does. No prosecution response yet last I knew since this was recently filed.

I'll take a wait and see. If I was more into and never was the IN court filing system I'd go look for a few things but have never used it, not family and am not going to go doing that nor even get a day off this week that isn't a big trip to handle a big chore. Ten plus hours today, tomorrow and the next three after 9 pluses. And I don't mean to go looking for filings. I mean inmate rosters, dates, arrest date, all that sh*t.

Not a single thing i've read has a link to anything about some of these claims. I am not caught up and not saying there isn't one or I haven't gotten there yet or missed something but not so far other than of course defense claims with I gather very little provided to the court with the filings.

I've seen too much of their stuff to just assume or ever take their word for anything especially as at least wisely acknowledged, out of context claims with no back up.

The fact tons is held close to the vest and much sealed makes it difficult for anyone to know. Prosecution doesn't share and defense is very selective. Naturally.

Taking a wait and see unless in reading on I see some proof of any of it, time frame and a ton more.

Just me though.

Cuffed when? Just for one thing.

The night our perp was arrested, they got a few more voluntary remarks things out of him with no need to Mirandize if I recall correctly. And pretty darned positive. There are a lot of things that play into all this. I saw things Tresir found, Roundpeg found, etc. and read all on break. Each case and decision was different for examples as well.

Our perp was cuffed and taken in that night. They never sast him down for a formal interview and i'm not sure this was or certainly that he was detained until long after and I'd need to see proof of these dates as well. Haen't unless I missed, totally possible , other than what Tresir found. However, I still am not through all but read a lot on breaks.

Kind of going to do what I do and catch up with remarks on a few things here and it isn't to your post with where I go at all, this is just where I am and jumping off from. Glad to see you in her eby the way! It gets a bit heated imo. Not anything bad but everyone has their own opinions no doubt and I don't exempt self on that one either.

So here's something I want to know and maybe I should. Is interview one with Doolin and interview two this one? Or are we talking Doolin's is not part of what is interview one and two here and both were with LE and/or Holman? I'm not clear on that.

If Tresir or Olenna or someone I suspect knows could answer that, I'd much appreciate it.

Because I am thinking this won't end up suppressed but that even if it does, RA did not confess to Holman, I think we all know or are pretty sure of that. So what I am wondering is this the one RA changes the time frame for one and this is why I need to know if Doolin's counts or #1 and #2 we are just talking later more formal LE interviews years after Doolin?

I'm not thinking you like know and I don't, but just since I am in responding to your post asking it as it relates to catching up on several of the topics/points today.

On one hand generally they want suppressed what has what they are panicked over and so they are fine with claiming Miranda in one but making ain issue without the full backup for it with the other. LIke the FM with wanting the search warrant thrown out, don't get me wrong, who wouldn't but it was so extreme and over the top and imo ridiculous, unprofessional and written by Lord knows who and I just feel that warrant got something they need gone. And I don't mean just the gun.

Anyhow, not TOO long for me in trying to mostly catch up on most. I am sure there may be some since break time today I haven't seen but because I did look then, don't think I am too far behind.
I think both RA and KA were interviewed on the 13th Oct. RA was interviewed again on 26th Oct in Lafayette. Then he was arrested on 28th Oct in Delphi. That's really all I know so far.
 
I've answered this above. But I now see that Round Peg does think that RA did go from ISP to CC jail on the 26th, just not booked into CC jail until the 28th. Maybe Round Peg has a reference?

For purposes of the motion - I'm not sure it matters - he's is in custody a time of interrogation so he (technically) needed to be freshly Mirandized. We'll see if the Prosecution can straighten all that out w/ documentation that satisfies the Court.

JMHO
Well I think it does matter - whether he was in custody for two days solid prior to arrest or not. Also, when did they eventually get the car back? Is that known? Was KA hanging around for over 2 hours waiting for RA or did she go home and then RA bring his car back. If he was mirandized on the 13th, he wouldn't need it again on the 26th as the earlier one would cover it wouldn't it? This is just half a story ATM.
 
Yes, defense attorneys are officers of the court. Yes the LE said these things in depositions under oath. Yes, these depositions are quoted in the Franks and attached as exhibits. All my comments are based on what I've read from the docket. JMHO
Could you provide the extracts of these depositions from the FM and provide the exhibits?
 
I've answered this above. But I now see that Round Peg does think that RA did go from ISP to CC jail on the 26th, just not booked into CC jail until the 28th. Maybe Round Peg has a reference?

For purposes of the motion - I'm not sure it matters - he's is in custody a time of interrogation so he (technically) needed to be freshly Mirandized. We'll see if the Prosecution can straighten all that out w/ documentation that satisfies the Court.

JMHO
You seem to be saying he was at ISP Lafayette for 2 days but @RoundPeg is suggesting he went to Carroll County on the 26th. The arrest records show 28th at CC and the PC states he was arrested on the 28th so just want to get the facts straight on here with links ideally.
 
Yes, defense attorneys are officers of the court. Yes the LE said these things in depositions under oath. Yes, these depositions are quoted in the Franks and attached as exhibits. All my comments are based on what I've read from the docket. JMHO
Okay. That explains your view on that one then. Thanks
 
It's understandably confusing. I've already linked and quoted the date of 26th as the day RA was interviewed by Holeman and taken into custody - see the the Second Interview Suppression Motion which is acceptable proof.

RA was cuffed on camera at end of interrogation on Oct 26, he was physically held in custody at ISP station or CC Jail until his booking into Carroll County Jail on Oct 28. On the 26th he was in custody. PCA date is Oct 31st -refer to the PCA; the probable cause covered a warrantless arrest.

They held RA at the ISP station from the time of his questioning until he was booked into Carroll County, Delphi. Some suspected they arrested him without a warrant but I saw his probable cause covered a warrantless arrest.

Here is the RA booking info from Vine;

Ethnicity Non-Hispanic
Date of Birth Sep , **
ID Number228**
Custody Status Date Oct 28, 2022 11:46 AM EDT
Custody StatusIn Custody
Custody Detail Carroll County Jail
Book Date Oct 28, 2022 11:10 AM EDT

LOCATION
Carroll County Jail
310 W Main Street
Delphi, IN 46923
(765) 564-2413
REPORTING AGENCY
Carroll County Sheriff's Office
310 W Main Street
Delphi, IN 46923
(765) 564-2413

JMHO
Your Vine info says the 28th boh with custody stays date and book date.

As far as the to other, I've already said a defense filing is not proof for me, ever.

Is the recording and video available to be seen with the filing? Somehow I doubt it.

At least it is now clear he was cuffed later. He wasn't held in cuffs during questioning. I havent' seen it so I'll wait to call it an interrogation. I've also not seen a prosecution response so I will wait for that as well, thanks. I've said before I am done with reading defense filings. Luckily though Tom is on tonight and I'll get his coverage on all the recent filings which is what he does each week and I'll wait for that.

Personally I think a lot is being jumped ahead on here as to whether Mrandized and whether needed to be.

Has anyone looked up the day of the week they went to get the car? Meaning was it a Saturday and then he was booked in Carroll on Monday? I'll try to look if I remember and get a chance.

Let's remember that too, they went to Lafayette, no one went and picked him up in cuffs and drove him there for questioning.

So I'lll wait for Tom, for P response and for actual video. Do appreciate the VINE info. Defense info isn't going to do it for me though.
 
So was he held at the Lafayette ISP post for two days then booked into the Carroll County jail on the morning of the 28th when he was officially arrested? Or did they (ISP) release him on the 26th and arrest him 2 days later?

From @Olenna post

"They held RA at the ISP station from the time of his questioning until he was booked into Carroll County, Delphi. Some suspected they arrested him without a warrant but I saw his probable cause covered a warrantless arrest."

Any proof he was held at the Lafayette ISP post for two days?
Yeah I'm wondering the same thing. Not sure how any of that clears that up. And I'd think there would be Vine info on arrest by ISP and inmate info or something about time at ISP/ Pr os ot beomg said he was held in an "interrogation" room for two days?

It isn't unusual to be arrested on a Saturday and then go before a judge on a Monday and for formal charges to come on Monday, etc. and so on but that's not clear here at all. All there is is info onk the two days later date showing when all happened.
 
Transcripts after the fact - of course we'll see (if someone wants to pay for them and share them.) I wasn't referring to that.
They'll tape proceedings. What part of the taped proceeding will be made available for the public and when ... is up to the Court.
If Gull makes a full release to the public - that would be great! I agree. But that may not happen; and that's what I meant. And we'd see no video.
IMO, Gull is firm on denying cameras. In Indiana, the Court has this power, she has made her decision, I really don't see her changing her mind; she's made her need for control known. It's disappointing to me, as I mentioned. JMHO
Once trial is over and there is a conviction unless they try to cite ongoing investigation because of OTHER possible defendants and even then doubtful, evidence and and transcripts and so on or recordings get released or are available for release on request unless you are telling me IN goes against this widely usual practice.

And I have little doubt they will be obtained. This isn't a not followed case by a long shot LMAO, it's one of the biggest there is.

With all that's went on here I'm a bit hazy but isn't she the judge that actually has on opinion of the opposite on cameras or was it someone else? There isn't another judge so I am thinking it was her. I do know of IN's archaic rule on it/view of it.

And for the record we will share the huge disappointment and in my case anger if we are not able to watch or at least listen. I think all here will. At least aha SOMEthing we can all agree on I imagine.

I'm not convinced she might not decide on something for coverage but I guess we will see. My hopes aren't completely dashed yet by a long shot. However I will also wait to see if this trial goes off on schedule. I think If two of the three have anything to say about it and it can be without some kink thrown by the D, it will. No faith at all in the D though but I'm sure that's no surprise. Lol.
 
Yes, RA and went into the ISP building to pick up his car October 26. Holeman met him and asked him if he'd answer a few more questions; RA agreed. KA stayed out of the building. RA was taken into the interrogation room, and was never released from custody to this day. Hope that's clear enough.

eta: RA/KA were told by LE when and where to come pick up their car that had been taken in the search. There was no car there for RA or KA to pick up.
This is all in the motion.
(Which I've provide a link to.)

IMO, it seem evident that the taking of RA under custody that day was the plan ... and the car pick up was the ruse. I think this motion provided this new information to the public for the first time - not sure if there were earlier sources with regard to the 2 day hold at ISP building/Lafayette. JMHO
Now that's a leap and total bias.

It was said with their jobs they were having issues getting by with one car and THEY wanted and went to get it back. A ruse? Stay home if worried and go rent a car. No one picked them up and took them to Lafayete am I wrong in a police car, am I wrong? Or insisted they come in that day am I wrong? That's connecting dots that just aren't there.

Certainly not saying it couldn't have been the case with the arrest planned at least but whether they'd have went to his house and done it that way that day regardless isn't know is it?

He also went voluntarily to answer the few questions.

That's as far as I can see where it stands so far. And then we have had interrogation room used, etc. And it called an interrogation. We are far from knowing all this. And please do not cite defense claims to me as proof if that is what is coming.

IF there is any substance to any of this, it well may end up again in an ISC ruling if anything is unclear and perhaps it is and will remain with questions but maybe not. Hard to say. If so, I think all better be prepared for no on time trial.

However, we don't know sh*t yet. That much is becoming clear. More smoke and mirrors so let's be clear on that that know one here knows anything yet other than defense claims.
 
Yes, RA and went into the ISP building to pick up his car October 26. Holeman met him and asked him if he'd answer a few more questions; RA agreed. KA stayed out of the building. RA was taken into the interrogation room, and was never released from custody to this day. Hope that's clear enough.

eta: RA/KA were told by LE when and where to come pick up their car that had been taken in the search. There was no car there for RA or KA to pick up.
This is all in the motion.
(Which I've provide a link to.)

IMO, it seem evident that the taking of RA under custody that day was the plan ... and the car pick up was the ruse. I think this motion provided this new information to the public for the first time - not sure if there were earlier sources with regard to the 2 day hold at ISP building/Lafayette. JMHO
Also which is iit? Someone earlier says KA was not allowed to go back with him and now it is said she wasn't in the building. Two very different things. IF you aren't even in the buildings, how it is your ate not allowed to go back? Would have to look at who said that but just with all of knowing the views of about each one of all of us here, it was one of two people, one being you. Not saying it was but you'd be one possibility. And also considering only a couple are eager to read defense filings and others of us groan. LOL. All in good humor.

But seriously, which is it?
 
I've answered this above. But I now see that Round Peg does think that RA did go from ISP to CC jail on the 26th, just not booked into CC jail until the 28th. Maybe Round Peg has a reference?

For purposes of the motion - I'm not sure it matters - he's is in custody a time of interrogation so he (technically) needed to be freshly Mirandized. We'll see if the Prosecution can straighten all that out w/ documentation that satisfies the Court.

JMHO
Well I'd agree on that as far as waiting for a P response BUT there's no clarity yet either whether he needed to be Mrandized. As well as whether he was, wasn't and all the other fine little details that play into such. Both RP and Tresir gave some examples and decisions but each case is different as is say a local court and higher court and also a lot of minutia as to what is considered custody, interrogation, freedom to leave, volunarily answering questions, etc.

In other words, none of know sh*t yet and so we are back to what seems to happen a lot, a lot of big whatever and then it becomes clear that some take defense filings as fact and the entire enchilada of fact. No?

EVEN iif he was arrested later that day, that only tell us that and cuffed later that day. And quite honestly I haven't even seen proof of that yet. Not doubting it but simply saying all I have is people saying that and defense referrals. ANd one who claims he went to Carroll that day and one that claims he was at ISP for two days.
 
I think both RA and KA were interviewed on the 13th Oct. RA was interviewed again on 26th Oct in Lafayette. Then he was arrested on 28th Oct in Delphi. That's really all I know so far.
SAME HERE. Clear all the smoke, all the claims and that's where I am now back at as well. I'm going to quit going on these round trip rides lol. To only end up back at square one.

Of course I gather defense says so or some such and if so, fine but in no way does that do it for me. Never has, never will. So no facts YET. it was all a ride to nowhere. Jmo.
 
Well I think it does matter - whether he was in custody for two days solid prior to arrest or not. Also, when did they eventually get the car back? Is that known? Was KA hanging around for over 2 hours waiting for RA or did she go home and then RA bring his car back. If he was mirandized on the 13th, he wouldn't need it again on the 26th as the earlier one would cover it wouldn't it? This is just half a story ATM.
It does. It maters a lot. The way this is left are we to think he was in an interrogation room for two days or is there booking info/holding info of his time at ISP and he was in a cell or holding cell for two days? Seriously. I'm not kidding. And KA was not allowed to go back with him someone said and now she was never in the building. Yeah I'm not even close to an opinion on the Miranda or if even needed as we don't know sh*t after all these supposed "facts" that aren't. I need to go watch the link you posted from Law and Crime and had that on my liist but shall see as I've went again on a round trip ride to nowhere first.

I see it exactly as you do, all the claims and all these posts leave us nowhere further as to what the case really is. Just defense claims again.

Did KA get a hotel room for that matter and wait for Rick for two days? She wasn't in the building, did she sleep in her car or did she go home? Did she run around Lafayette trying to retain a private defense atty? I'm sure that's not the case. I would suspect she was still reeling from all of the last couple of weeks.

Olenna says the car waasn't really there and it was a ruse. Well here again, no way am I buying that thus far. I went with someone once to get a car out of impound in a different area and county than our town/area. No not any MURDERER. Pretty sure it was a weekend and similar the person needed their vehicle back, cash to get it and more. Couldn't even get into the sheriff's dept in this little town finally after walking all sides, found a buzzer and finally after 90 atttempts reached someone only to be told it was somewhere else with the "private" tow and storage company that takes care of this for them. Then we had to find that and go there. And the story continues from there but I will leave it. I don't know what the facts are here is my point and ISP would be of course the first place of contact to get the vehicle, it sure would not mean it was in their parking lot and they had the keys LMAO.

And this car was taken in a murder investigation! Not some OWI which I is what I was talking of. It may be minor or not a big point but saying things like the car wasn't even there means nothing. NOr that it was a ruse. ANd no they don't walk you through it, you have to go get it find the right people to talk to, call and do so first, etc. Did KA go into the ISP or not? Did she go home or not? Did she go home with the car or not? Arguably not as she didn't have two people to drive two vehicles lol. Did anyone go with them? Daughter for instance?

No one knows sh*t imo. Not us, not the ones claiming things are known and fact that are not. Per the norm.

Just now I am coming to a point I am tending to think this trial is not going to go off on time. Some decision will have the defense appealing and the clock will stop. Just a prediction. And/or it will be argued over what delayed it. Just another prediction. Of course I don't know and just a guess but we will see. On the other hand, one would think they'd want it done as well and save it all for appeals after. I'm fairly certain their client and his family do and have since early on. But that's just a guess on my part too. Most all here are guessing. The few facts in this new thing boil down to right about where we started after all the supposed proog. links, etc.
 
You seem to be saying he was at ISP Lafayette for 2 days but @RoundPeg is suggesting he went to Carroll County on the 26th. The arrest records show 28th at CC and the PC states he was arrested on the 28th so just want to get the facts straight on here with links ideally.
Same problem here. Arrest would be initial custody and arrest. Charging date, etc. could be different by a day or two, etc. So the PC says ARRESTED on the 28th or charged?
 
Arrest is when you cuff, detain, charging often comes after. And after all of this for a few days, nothing is clear.

Done with it and feel I wasted time. Going to go turn on your LINK and listen while I try to catch up on getting ready for another long day. I think I also have about ten minutes left of Tom from last week before his new one comes today.
 
Also which is iit? Someone earlier says KA was not allowed to go back with him and now it is said she wasn't in the building. Two very different things. IF you aren't even in the buildings, how it is your ate not allowed to go back? Would have to look at who said that but just with all of knowing the views of about each one of all of us here, it was one of two people, one being you. Not saying it was but you'd be one possibility. And also considering only a couple are eager to read defense filings and others of us groan. LOL. All in good humor.

But seriously, which is it?
All I know I that if I was being separated from my other half and they were refusing to give me any info on what's happening for hours and what we've been told it was for was bogus (where's my car?), as is being eluded to, I would sure me inquiring about getting my other half representation myself.

Was she just hanging out, twiddling her thumbs that entire time? Was the reality sinking in that he really might have done it? Was she even concerned? I just don't get it and I'm about the most patient, compliant person they could have there, but I definitely have my limits.
 
I'll have to give a listen here shortly.
Non custodial. Either time. And so much more lol.

I'm not a talking head or short news clip kind of fan but there's a lot in here.

More fluff, he talked meant to our client is what WAters says it sounds like they are saying for the most part and that's not substance.

Point of bullet and gun make sense. He isn't even smart enough to say yeah I may have hunted there back a few months before that, could be my bullet. He boxed himself in.

A gvery good watch. And more meat than fluff in it by far.

Some likely won't watch it or like it if they do. I thought it was on key a whole lot more than much other being said here.
 

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