LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Tresir]

Re: Tresir's request above, I'll respectfully respond (and provide links) for anyone on this thread interested in (and not allergic to ) referencing the dep excerpts foot-noted in the hefty Franks memo.

Links below:

• The 132 page Franks Memorandum is on the docket and provides (foot-noted) LE deposition extracts.
• Also on the docket, the 2 page FM-accompanying Exhibit and Deposition List (link below).

Note: The full exhibits (and depositions) are not on the docket available to the public. Just the list. (likely confidential). Thus, the only way to read excerpts from the deposition is by accessing the Franks Memo.

I'd recommend downloading both docs in searchable pdf format.
If you wish to quickly locate excerpts of depositions that are embedded in the the Franks memo text, I'd recommend:
a) download the FM pdf; search for the deposed's last name ... or ...
b) peruse the FM's footnotes only, page by page. for LE deposition excerpts.

For interest, I've cut/paste the list of Law Enforcement Depositions further below - a quick look at which LE members were deposed and referenced in the FM. Also I searched through the FM to pull a list of footnote references to Holeman, just to give you an idea of the degree of quoting.

The following docs are downloadable and searchable:

Franks Memorandum
Memorandum in Support of Motion for Franks Hearing.pdf

(open the Memo, read footnotes, read quotes that footnotes reference)

Exhibit List, Deposition List. 2 page list
List of Exhibits Included in Franks Hearing Memorandum.pdf


From the above - the LE Depositions that are quoted in the Franks' memo:


Below is a list of FM footnotes that give some idea of the # of references to the Holeman deposition. The page/line references refer to the Holeman deposition pages (a confidential doc). No link as I made this list quickly from the Frank's Memo as a courtesy. The reading ... is up the the reader.

Holeman deposition. p. 63, lines 7-20.
Holeman deposition. p. 64, lines 19-25.
Holeman deposition. p. 63, lines 7-10.
Holeman deposition. p. 63, lines 7-20.
Holeman deposition p. 64, lines 9-25.
Holeman deposition. p. 63 lines 7-20.
Holeman deposition. p. 64, lines 19-25.
Holeman deposition. p. 62, lines 7-20.
Holeman deposition. p. 62, lines 7-20.
Holeman deposition. p. 65, lines 6-8.
Holeman deposition. p. 65, lines 9-12.
Holeman deposition. p. 65, lines 1-3.
Holeman deposition. p. 63, lines 10-20.
Holeman deposition. P 123-130.
Holeman deposition. P 123-130.
Holeman deposition, p. 172, lines 4-5.
Holeman deposition, p. 172, lines 4-5.
Holeman deposition. p. 79, lines 6-7.

Wow. Thank you for that. (I think LOL).

May have some questions in a couple of days.

 

[Tresir]

I think if she just denies it without a hearing they can object during the trial and possibly force one. From what I have read, they have to object (if denied without a hearing), for Miranda appeals purposes.

I think she will deny it based on the fact he was only in the Holeman interview voluntarily, initially. It only became custodial once he was handcuffed and taken to Carroll County IMO.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I've answered this above. But I now see that Round Peg does think that RA did go from ISP to CC jail on the 26th, just not booked into CC jail until the 28th. Maybe Round Peg has a reference?

For purposes of the motion - I'm not sure it matters - he's is in custody a time of interrogation so he (technically) needed to be freshly Mirandized. We'll see if the Prosecution can straighten all that out w/ documentation that satisfies the Court.

JMHO

I am just going back through and then catching up with the newer ones (or hope to) I never got to last night. Ended up stuck on Tom and not finishing here lol.

There is absolutely no determination he was in custody at the time of what you call "interrogation". There are a lot of opinions out there also as to whether he even had to be Mirandized again. The 14 day rule is discussed and it was within that and all the other things some of which Round Peg and Tresir impressively found yesterday (or was it the day before, lost track) as to rulings on such, cases, appeals, etc.

I also think that there's something in that interview/questioning that they of course want suppressed and of course they never share that lol. And something perhaps that gave hem the cause to then arrest. A few things are obvious, like he stuck himself with the gun and bullet thing.

They want warrant suppressed because there is evidence they need not heard, second interview only matters because there too something they desperately need out in that one. Imo.

Well I finally heard the remainder of the pages in a more pleasant way than finishing reading it by watching Tom cover it and also got caught up on what has also been filed recently, of course much that we can't see like witness lists or revised ones. He at least is fair, each one of us here is biased with our own opinions and so I don't put a lot of store in any of ours lol. He criticizes every side and the judge in his takes on each thing depending throughout. You don't and I don't nor does anyone else here imo. It's pretty clear here what each and every person think or have leaning towards.

So I hard the rest of what I did not finish reading. Sorry, I did give it a hurrah and made it through half myself.

I had to also laugh outright at some of the obvious things. I've never seen an interview room in any case with windows nor a huge one, they are cozy to average sized lol. Just for one example--they aren't conference room where they interview 12 perps at once for goodness sakes and they are usually county buildings (this was ISP but you get my point) and no, interview rooms aren't some gigantic meeting place. Chuckle. There were several things like this meant to come across as just a terrible thing and place to do such lol. None of that is going to follow any judge or other court officer and so it is done for public effect.

You know in all, defense has played defense throughout. They I guess some could say played offense with motions and the FM and so on to create blizzards and cause time and public opinion to be used/swayed but I'd seriously hope they've spent some time really getting ready to try this case and deal with the evidence rather than having used all their time to get things out that they are worried about and to get Rick out. I'd sure hope they are also ready to actually try the case with all these things allowed in or whether they are not not, having prepped to defend their client.

They have money now for their expert shopping and so no excuse there.

IN summary on this second interview--they want something in it not seen --and so of course aren't going to tell what that is or share those excerpts are they?

Same with the warrant and what was secured. Same with his real confessions. They want all suppressed or tossed. To me that hints at much that indicates guilt.

Finally, something else that is really clear lately and last night but has been throughout is how everything is sealed/not available to public. It makes it where defense can excerpt what they like and even against orders ensure it gets into public view. It also makes it impossible to see context in interviews and more. I fail to see the reason for all the sealing any longer unless there is more to this all than known, meaning like a Kline connection or something on that order or someone else. However, it has been obvious in recent years that this has become more common or simply has always been the way in recent times for SOME states. Colorado would be another just for one example and I guess IN is or at least in this case... There had better have been a real reason for it and the way you expect us to never see recordings, interviews, full transcripts, confessions, after trial is over, that's interesting as all should be short of a continued invesigation.... At least in most states.

Anyhow to get back to the point I was going to make, this makes it impossible to check anything and lets defenses go haywire and pick and choose what to leak and share as no one can check it or wisely look at the actual filings as all is sealed. Or even knowledgeably debate with each other. Also it causes an entirely one sided opinion for those swayable that only have ONE side putting sh*t out there who are easily swayed and allows them to do so. For years even.

92.9 percent of what is trumpeted here is nothing but defense claims, even if any backed up it is excerpts and what as even YOU have said taken out of context. I say 92.95 because some is none of us claiming any such thing as having impact or as evidence and another gets more on thingsn like RL etc. lol. Other than that, I'd say 99.1 percent.

It's a far cry from showing what really exists and yet whole cases are made on just the defense filings lol. Or attempted to be. Oh AND leaks.

Plus then it is claimed to be only using facts or looking at facts but then if some can be corroboraed as facts with a page or two allegedly to back it up say of a deposition, well where is the rest? And what does that show?

The small room and size difference between Rick and Holeman too was an intresting take/SLANT since at that point they are on video and of course are in an ISP station and we are to believe all of IN state is corrupt as well that Rick could face a beat down in a tiny room without WINDOWS lol if not complying. By the way, most trials are held in courtrooms without windows too. As do viewing rooms of the trial not have windows other than seeing one way into the courtroom. Nor are most huge courtrooms. So their plays on that stuff was funny I had to laugh. Because again it is for public sentiment and play. As always.

Anywho rest assured I now heard it all with a lot better humor than reading the rest of the "thing". I didn't find it snappy at all what I did read and it still went sideways but I guess comparing whatever it was 11 or 12 pages to a kazillion it might seem that way lol. Five or five and a half whatever it was was enough of reading it for me for one day and I never got back to it myself. However, now I have heard the rest.

I guess this ended a bit of a post of kind of catching up with all here in the last day or two not that I have read all yet but have kept up by reading some on break as well. Haven' seen all since mid to late day yesterday to now though. But I will.

 

[Tresir]

Looks like DA provided courtesy of prepping signature paperwork for DA/Judge's signatures when submitting the PCA to the Judge. Not the signed copy, obviously. IMO.

You mean PA not DA right?

 

[Tresir]

I am just going back through and then catching up with the newer ones (or hope to) I never got to last night. Ended up stuck on Tom and not finishing here lol.

There is absolutely no determination he was in custody at the time of what you call "interrogation". There are a lot of opinions out there also as to whether he even had to be Mirandized again. The 14 day rule is discussed and it was within that and all the other things some of which Round Peg and Tresir impressively found yesterday (or was it the day before, lost track) as to rulings on such, cases, appeals, etc.

I also think that there's something in that interview/questioning that they of course want suppressed and of course they never share that lol. And something perhaps that gave hem the cause to then arrest. A few things are obvious, like he stuck himself with the gun and bullet thing.

They want warrant suppressed because there is evidence they need not heard, second interview only matters because there too something they desperately need out in that one. Imo.

Well I finally heard the remainder of the pages in a more pleasant way than finishing reading it by watching Tom cover it and also got caught up on what has also been filed recently, of course much that we can't see like witness lists or revised ones. He at least is fair, each one of us here is biased with our own opinions and so I don't put a lot of store in any of ours lol. He criticizes every side and the judge in his takes on each thing depending throughout. You don't and I don't nor does anyone else here imo. It's pretty clear here what each and every person think or have leaning towards.

So I hard the rest of what I did not finish reading. Sorry, I did give it a hurrah and made it through half myself.

I had to also laugh outright at some of the obvious things. I've never seen an interview room in any case with windows nor a huge one, they are cozy to average sized lol. Just for one example--they aren't conference room where they interview 12 perps at once for goodness sakes and they are usually county buildings (this was ISP but you get my point) and no, interview rooms aren't some gigantic meeting place. Chuckle. There were several things like this meant to come across as just a terrible thing and place to do such lol. None of that is going to follow any judge or other court officer and so it is done for public effect.

You know in all, defense has played defense throughout. They I guess some could say played offense with motions and the FM and so on to create blizzards and cause time and public opinion to be used/swayed but I'd seriously hope they've spent some time really getting ready to try this case and deal with the evidence rather than having used all their time to get things out that they are worried about and to get Rick out. I'd sure hope they are also ready to actually try the case with all these things allowed in or whether they are not not, having prepped to defend their client.

They have money now for their expert shopping and so no excuse there.

IN summary on this second interview--they want something in it not seen --and so of course aren't going to tell what that is or share those excerpts are they?

Same with the warrant and what was secured. Same with his real confessions. They want all suppressed or tossed. To me that hints at much that indicates guilt.

Finally, something else that is really clear lately and last night but has been throughout is how everything is sealed/not available to public. It makes it where defense can excerpt what they like and even against orders ensure it gets into public view. It also makes it impossible to see context in interviews and more. I fail to see the reason for all the sealing any longer unless there is more to this all than known, meaning like a Kline connection or something on that order or someone else. However, it has been obvious in recent years that this has become more common or simply has always been the way in recent times for SOME states. Colorado would be another just for one example and I guess IN is or at least in this case... There had better have been a real reason for it and the way you expect us to never see recordings, interviews, full transcripts, confessions, after trial is over, that's interesting as all should be short of a continued invesigation.... At least in most states.

Anyhow to get back to the point I was going to make, this makes it impossible to check anything and lets defenses go haywire and pick and choose what to leak and share as no one can check it or wisely look at the actual filings as all is sealed. Or even knowledgeably debate with each other. Also it causes an entirely one sided opinion for those swayable that only have ONE side putting sh*t out there who are easily swayed and allows them to do so. For years even.

92.9 percent of what is trumpeted here is nothing but defense claims, even if any backed up it is excerpts and what as even YOU have said taken out of context. I say 92.95 because some is none of us claiming any such thing as having impact or as evidence and another gets more on thingsn like RL etc. lol. Other than that, I'd say 99.1 percent.

It's a far cry from showing what really exists and yet whole cases are made on just the defense filings lol. Or attempted to be. Oh AND leaks.

Plus then it is claimed to be only using facts or looking at facts but then if some can be corroboraed as facts with a page or two allegedly to back it up say of a deposition, well where is the rest? And what does that show?

The small room and size difference between Rick and Holeman too was an intresting take/SLANT since at that point they are on video and of course are in an ISP station and we are to believe all of IN state is corrupt as well that Rick could face a beat down in a tiny room without WINDOWS lol if not complying. By the way, most trials are held in courtrooms without windows too. As do viewing rooms of the trial not have windows other than seeing one way into the courtroom. Nor are most huge courtrooms. So their plays on that stuff was funny I had to laugh. Because again it is for public sentiment and play. As always.

Anywho rest assured I now heard it all with a lot better humor than reading the rest of the "thing". I didn't find it snappy at all what I did read and it still went sideways but I guess comparing whatever it was 11 or 12 pages to a kazillion it might seem that way lol. Five or five and a half whatever it was was enough of reading it for me for one day and I never got back to it myself. However, now I have heard the rest.

I guess this ended a bit of a post of kind of catching up with all here in the last day or two not that I have read all yet but have kept up by reading some on break as well. Haven' seen all since mid to late day yesterday to now though. But I will.

What about the need or not of another miranda? And does it matter, as he was eventually charged?

 

[GrandmaBear]

The Miranda thing is a matter of Indiana regulation; YET, IMO, something like this is procedural and is tempered by local practice. I think the Court will have some discretion here, and as mentioned, I think there was larger purpose in getting this issue and these recordings in front of Judge Gull at the time she's making rules of evidence decisions... JMHO

And yet this should have been addressed in early days. Regardless of "IN regulation" "procedrual" "being tempered" and court having some "discretion" here.

B & R waited until late in the game with it. This **** just LIKE Mirandizing is Class 101 and where were they with it?

I realize I am not talking exactly to your "points" here but seriously?

And this is also totally off your points and sideways but I'll add that some of he excerpts from the interview and sh*t I did see now tells me a lot more about RA which confirmed the opinion I already hold of him. I realize this is talking nothing relating to your post here. Lol. Just covering what I can in a few if possible.

I'm talking of instinct on the man that seems to have been confirmed or I feel has been which I get is not your way of talking or forte. I am into facts and filings (not one sided) but in no way do I talk cases without that other part being discussed, the human part, the instinct, and what such statements ec. actually help confirm on those. Dry is great I guess if this was a court site and we were jurors however even then cases are made lol by one side and only one side with further excerpts trying to show that one side lol. Although to give credit I think you did say a ways back it was out of context and just excerpts.

I'm not a juror nor could I be in this case lol.

I await the trial and I certainly await the responses of the other side to see both.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The DA signed it electronically, btw

It doesn't matter. Judge never did, etc. Never filed, etc. or if was, this is not that copy. Not that it even matters now does it? It's a blank basically. I send you an agreement today I have signed and you never do? Not a binding anything, that was the point I think of those of us trying to get that across.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Going back through the thread and found this!!

And so what is your point here? someone comes in like a troll and as far as we know makes everything they said up with no link, no basis, no even hint of where this was heard? and i'd think or HOPE both "sides" in here would look at this and say there is absolutely no basis for this or even hint of such or do you and some think there IS? that's putting out total falsehoods as far as i' concerned in an attempt to start internet rumors and in fact try to make rumor fact. Or if you are saying any side put this out, I'll go there as to which one. Through their little community and leak and agenda chain. HOWEVER I dismiss it as entire b.s. and don't even claim that or that the D causes sh*t like this or people to come in here and everywhere and do such as this. You don't dismiss it? And bring it up now why exactly?

 

[Tresir]

And yet this should have been addressed in early days. Regardless of "IN regulation" "procedrual" "being tempered" and court having some "discretion" here.

B & R waited until late in the game with it. This **** just LIKE Mirandizing is Class 101 and where were they with it?

I realize I am not talking exactly to your "points" here but seriously?

And this is also totally off your points and sideways but I'll add that some of he excerpts from the interview and sh*t I did see now tells me a lot more about RA which confirmed the opinion I already hold of him. I realize this is talking nothing relating to your post here. Lol. Just covering what I can in a few if possible.

I'm talking of instinct on the man that seems to have been confirmed or I feel has been which I get is not your way of talking or forte. I am into facts and filings (not one sided) but in no way do I talk cases without that other part being discussed, the human part, the instinct, and what such statements ec. actually help confirm on those. Dry is great I guess if this was a court site and we were jurors however even then cases are made lol by one side and only one side with further excerpts trying to show that one side lol. Although to give credit I think you did say a ways back it was out of context and just excerpts.

I'm not a juror nor could I be in this case lol.

I await the trial and I certainly await the responses of the other side to see both.

What is your opinion of him, out of curiousity?

BTW I found out he was in the National Guard at one point. I thought that was interesting, as we had the military suicide.

 

[Olenna]

It doesn't matter. Judge never did, etc. Never filed, etc. or if was, this is not that copy. Not that it even matters now does it? It's a blank basically. I send you an agreement today I have signed and you never do? Not a binding anything, that was the point I think of those of us trying to get that across.

Helped me think through the timeline for the arrest and booking for this case ... thank you @RoundPeg ... for example:

Oct 26: "Put this guy in holding while we get a PCA done, and figure out presser/public strategy."
Oct 27: "Here's the PCA judge. Let's seal all this."
Oct 28: "Book 'em, Dano"

 

[GrandmaBear]

Oh, I;m not arguing if they should have or should not have had to again. My point was for RA and he should have had an inner voice that should have reminded him of that happening prior plus with them lying to him about why he was there. I just can't fathom this not registering with somebody at least a little bit is all.

This man knows exactly. He's also had more than five years to think about what he'd say. And the games to play. I could go on with this rhyme lol.

We ALL KNOW THIS and it doesn't even have to be an inner voice. It's sheer idiocy out there to believe we all don't know it in this day and age. And my God our parents knew it as have the last how many generations. Short of being young and naive or developmentally disabled, you know yo don't have to talk EVER.

Rick Allen knew this especially like you say after hearing it already. And it's actually time with all this sh*t about false confessions in many a case that be recognized. Then get up and walk out and if they don't let you insist on a lawyer and SHUT UP. DUH. DUH. DOH. Does anyone stop and think how brain dead and simple minded and uneducated Thsi makes a pharm tech with a wife who is worried about his reputation sound? Or his attor4neys for that matter?

Let's talk his wife too. She knew he was in there, did she go get them and attorney and have him call or go in with her and putk an end to it? NO. Of course we don't know all but this play on them as simple and dumb people is ridiculous. Naive of course is one thing.

And then this claim of he was there thinking he was helping give info to solve in his first interview and trying to help any way he could and you could see it. Yeah sure. Only if you had years to think about it and were the perp, what is it you would act like, prent to assume or do when they come knocking finally?

Anyhow yes, HE KNEW he did not have to TALK. Someone convince me otherwise. And I'm NOT talking law or court decisions, I am talking whether HE KNEW THAT as we ALL DO for God's sake.
I agree. And no other word for it and will say it again. Uhm DUH. Even IF IN CUSTODY.

 

[Tresir]

Helped me think through the timeline for the arrest and booking for this case ... thank you @RoundPeg ... for example:

Oct 26: "Put this guy in holding while we get a PCA done, and figure out presser/public strategy."
Oct 27: "Here's the PCA judge. Let's seal all this."
Oct 28: "Book 'em, Dano"

Glad we could all be of assistance LOL.

 

[Olenna]

Glad we could all be of assistance LOL.

I could tell y'all needed something new to chew on, so I brought it.

 

[Tresir]

This man knows exactly. He's also had more than five years to think about what he'd say. And the games to play. I could go on with this rhyme lol.

We ALL KNOW THIS and it doesn't even have to be an inner voice. It's sheer idiocy out there to believe we all don't know it in this day and age. And my God our parents knew it as have the last how many generations. Short of being young and naive or developmentally disabled, you know yo don't have to talk EVER.

Rick Allen knew this especially like you say after hearing it already. And it's actually time with all this sh*t about false confessions in many a case that be recognized. Then get up and walk out and if they don't let you insist on a lawyer and SHUT UP. DUH. DUH. DOH. Does anyone stop and think how brain dead and simple minded and uneducated Thsi makes a pharm tech with a wife who is worried about his reputation sound? Or his attor4neys for that matter?

Let's talk his wife too. She knew he was in there, did she go get them and attorney and have him call or go in with her and putk an end to it? NO. Of course we don't know all but this play on them as simple and dumb people is ridiculous. Naive of course is one thing.

And then this claim of he was there thinking he was helping give info to solve in his first interview and trying to help any way he could and you could see it. Yeah sure. Only if you had years to think about it and were the perp, what is it you would act like, prent to assume or do when they come knocking finally?

Anyhow yes, HE KNEW he did not have to TALK. Someone convince me otherwise. And I'm NOT talking law or court decisions, I am talking whether HE KNEW THAT as we ALL DO for God's sake.
I agree. And no other word for it and will say it again. Uhm DUH. Even IF IN CUSTODY.

I think Holeman was purposely effing and blinding in that interview to wind him up and it worked. RA knew the deal- they had already searched his house, taken numerous weapons and other stuff plus his car. It will be very interesting to see what else he said in that two hours that preceded the arrest, which the D want suppressed.

 

[GrandmaBear]

That very well could be but still...

Maybe more will see these cases and be aware of what can indeed happen when you go in without representation after the first little bit.

And yet I think 99 percent know this but do it anyways. Or want to appear innocent and so they do. Or are innocent or so they do. And they could be Mrandized or not but they already know it and so what does that say...? Or be advised by an attorney not to do so and yet they do.

Where does stupidity OR own choice I have a line drawn?

So whatever the decision is, decisions have been or rule of law on it and what will apply here is one thing (and the 14 day will certainly be talked of I will BET on it), no one can tell me RA didn't know or is dumb.

So there's that...

And talk of ruses and everyting else OMG lol. He is a grown man who has been questioned once if not twice if counting way back when and likely the perp and if so, he knows exactly what is what. He's the king of ruses and lies.

Well he thinks so anyhow.

And the references here to interrogation and in custody when none of that has been determined is not factual at this point whatsoever. Sounds like the defense talking LMAO.

Anow, yes I agree and I am responding to his post and your one above it first.

As I said in another uhm duh. And what did his wife do, go call him and atty? Apparently not.

Go home, go get her nails done?

There's so much unknown here it isn't even funny in the ENTIRE case not just with this new one lol. No one knows even if they think they do, the all of it, unless defense has shared all they have with people lol via leaking but even then nope, never would do that with anything but want they want out there.

God help us and let this trial start when it is to start. And yet I chuckle. So ridiculous. Nothing like people thinking a mockery made of all of the system is one does not have to struggle to take seriously. And I will say that about both sides in some cases although the D takes the cake. Well actually emu steals cake but I trust my meaning is understood.

 

[RoundPeg]

This is the problem I had - that two posters appeared to be saying separate things so the facts needed clarifying to answer the miranda question.

Now we have the facts, ( thankyou all ) was a new miranda necessary or not?

What are everyone's views on this Miranda issue and the Second Motion to Dismiss?

I've already stated my views on the whole miranda issue. My opinion is this was an interrogation, he was not free to leave, and should have been mirandized.

 

[Olenna]

Going back through the thread and found this!!

FWIW I do recall this. I think the D mentioned this in papers filed re: holding conditions, maybe even Scremin/Lebrato? Some diving to do there but I can't get to it anytime soon.

The coerced confession related discovery will remain confidential ... unless/until there's a public hearing ...
JMHO

 

[Guess Who]

It doesn't matter. Judge never did, etc. Never filed, etc. or if was, this is not that copy. Not that it even matters now does it? It's a blank basically. I send you an agreement today I have signed and you never do? Not a binding anything, that was the point I think of those of us trying to get that across.

And IF there is a properly signed and filed copy, why not attach that? It's just a template at this point. Kinda reminds me of the page filed by another attorney in another case that claimed what he incorrectly filed and signed was just a template

 

[GrandmaBear]

And IF there is a properly signed and filed copy, why not attach that? It's just a template at this point. Kinda reminds me of the page filed by another attorney in another case that claimed what he incorrectly filed and signed was just a template

It is exactly that, a template. A blank. I know you get it and you now I get it lol. At best it is included in case needed or judge decides to sign/use. Just as judge's will have one attorney or another draft a final order, JUST as the D did with that dumb proposed order they drafted for Gull in that one recent filing as if she'd agree to or say any of the longwinded idiotic half of it stuff in it and sign such. Doesn't mean it ever happens, ever would or was filed lmao. This though, this is just a blank form no executed nor ever filed. If one was, then it isn't this one.

 

[Guess Who]

And yet I think 99 percent know this but do it anyways. Or want to appear innocent and so they do. Or are innocent or so they do. And they could be Mrandized or not but they already know it and so what does that say...? Or be advised by an attorney not to do so and yet they do.

Where does stupidity OR own choice I have a line drawn?

So whatever the decision is, decisions have been or rule of law on it and what will apply here is one thing (and the 14 day will certainly be talked of I will BET on it), no one can tell me RA didn't know or is dumb.

So there's that...

And talk of ruses and everyting else OMG lol. He is a grown man who has been questioned once if not twice if counting way back when and likely the perp and if so, he knows exactly what is what. He's the king of ruses and lies.

Well he thinks so anyhow.

And the references here to interrogation and in custody when none of that has been determined is not factual at this point whatsoever. Sounds like the defense talking LMAO.

Anow, yes I agree and I am responding to his post and your one above it first.

As I said in another uhm duh. And what did his wife do, go call him and atty? Apparently not.

Go home, go get her nails done?

There's so much unknown here it isn't even funny in the ENTIRE case not just with this new one lol. No one knows even if they think they do, the all of it, unless defense has shared all they have with people lol via leaking but even then nope, never would do that with anything but want they want out there.

God help us and let this trial start when it is to start. And yet I chuckle. So ridiculous. Nothing like people thinking a mockery made of all of the system is one does not have to struggle to take seriously. And I will say that about both sides in some cases although the D takes the cake. Well actually emu steals cake but I trust my meaning is understood.

Yeah, I think I'd be a bit ticked if my other half didn't save me from myself after being separated for hours and figured out the reason why we were there was bogus. It seems like at least one of them should have figured something out that this was not just a friendly chit chat. Especially if he had been Mirandized prior. Maybe shoulda taken the part about being told what you say could be used against you a bit more seriously?