LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow, how did I never hear of that one??

I have followed this long before here and at JT and I think most of us have followed it for years. I have entertained many a person and most have.

I mean we were talking of it there constantly, what about his guy who was arrested for this that lived an hour away, that guy who was in trouble for this that lived close, etc., etc., etc.

But never was I solid on a one until RA. He's just THE FIT. All else just fell away. I mean I really had trouble with KK even in more recent years...It's all just still too weird he was talking with Libby and arranging a meeting.

All I can figure and bless them, is that these girls or one were trying to find a bf and meet a guy they thought to be young and not someone catfishing, and perhaps more than one.

The voice is going to be a big clincher in this. The voice put me over the top. I already was on board but that really did it. It will for a jury too.

So what happened with the insanity plea in the cupboard case, I mean is he in a hospital and not prison? or found not guilty by reason of?

All I am or was saying is they can't do that here and if they were going to, they would have had to state that route and evaluations done and a lot more. They want to use his mental health but they don't want to go down that road for some reason... I suspect because they know it would not hold up...

I get that for any of us to look at any killer, they can't be normal to us and so must have some insanity. But it's a complex subject really and I don't think they are in most cases, I think they know exactly what they are doing and are quite cunning or they think they are, controlled and plan such. I think this was planned.

The remarks by Hannah and is it Aspen (I always forget) about his gifting the pictures and wanting to give his Bible to the family and if he is the killer, how absolutely intentionally doing such is chilling. They said if that is the case, how he is a level beyond even what has ever been seen and she'd like to see him studied then for lack of a better word, that is NOT how she said it, my poor wording. Tired.

I see him as entirely cold and calculated even during all his "trauma" in a prison... I can't explain it but sometimes I just can really trust my instincts (not always or maybe I ignore them) and I'm just convinced he is even worse than is known... I don't mean he has necessarily killed before but I do mean this man is someone who has always hidden his true nature and wanted to do this. If we ever hear the motive he apparently gave I think his wife and mom, I'm not sure if I will buy it or think he told the truth as to motive... I hope we get to hear such.

And in the midst of all of this and the wee hours between middle of night and morning and saying all this, it strikes me out of the blue the loss of these girls and how they dealt with total evil. It gets so forgotten and all becomes about the defendant. It did in ours too and for the family, it is never lost, and can be very resented. So it just hit me at this moment and so saying it and taking a moment to think about the girls and the families. I guarantee it is not what of course all of us are focused on for the most part these days but for them, it is never forgotten. And this whole circus revolving around RA just adds tons to it and makes him the focus. Such is salt to open wounds.

Man has it been an exhausting up and down day. Dozed off, awoke in chair, should have went to bed but did not. Still should and get a couple more hours. I texted my boss as early as yesterday saying I really could use Saturday off IF can be done. Two days ahead. Selling my home in another state and swear the experience is going to kill me! Whole day lost to it yesterday!

She had to text the manager that will be on this weekend and will get back to me. I said if need be, I can do it, but IF they could give me the day, I'd appreciate it big time and could really use it.

No laundry done. No nothing done and here I am up at 3:33 a.m. Lol. Triple same digits. I have a thing with that...
Here's a couple of links about the Delphi guy convicted of murder. He pled guilty. And lost an appeal of sentence.



 
Here's a couple of links about the Delphi guy convicted of murder. He pled guilty. And lost an appeal of sentence.



Wow.

I read the first long article in the first link, probably won't go into the next and realized fairly quickly I did know about this case. Through the years on the Delphi threads. The first name of Talmadge immediately clicked, so different...

As I read I recalled most all. I recall discussing it at length back when or reading on it. I recall him getting the ride home and the gf being with the other guy, etc.

What I don't or did not recall was the insanity plea or outcome and so when you referred to it that way and with no first name, etc., it did not ring a bell.

His mother too, sounds like I'm sorry, but a total enabler. Giving excuses and yelling after in the hallway they would appeal his sentence which is NOT even long enough IMO.

To bring it to the point here though, the insanity plea did not work did it? And again as is key in most as far as us general Joes understand it is knowing right from wrong or showing something was planned. Hiding something and covering up is often a big part.

And then there is a high bar too to prove insanity on top of it.

I get that those that cross the threshold to where they would MURDER intentionally are people most of us cannot understand and so some think they must be insane or have mental issues... The older I get the more I feel these are human concepts and as to who is insane and not is as well. I'm not saying there are no mental issues, my God, no I am not, or people really off the grid mentally, but I am saying excuses like this abound these days and the standards of knowing right from wrong, planning, and going beyond the bounds and murdering are good standards.

Some of these murderers are flat out intentional, cunning, know exactly what they are doing and WANT to do it and indulging in such for their own selfish or revengeful sakes.

We can't understand such a mind set of course but they aren't simply misunderstood, messed up and insane.

And for me another standard that is largely being ignored sometimes these days is if the public needs to be safe from the person. Aidan Fucci is a good example. A minor charged as an adult. The public is in danger if that boy is ever on the streets again. Also he had another enabling mother. She washed his bloody jeans or hid them, I forget...

I don't think we are at odds here and I do get that perps that do things as RA likely did, CB did, etc. one has to wonder that they go so against right from wrong and society norms BUT blend into society and try to excuse it with a bad childhood, mental problems and so on, we can't begin to identify or understand them.

I want to put this right--and not get like investigated lol--i have had times in my life, especially in younger years--a few, that I have WISHED people dead or to at least get their due for what they did to me or others... However, there is not even a hint nor ever was or intent where I would ever make sure such happened. Or do such.

And I may get in trouble for this, but it is because also I was raised believing in the Ten Commandments and God. And our world used to be where murder was the most heinous of all crimes. You DO NOT do that and expect an afterlife.

You know as that has fallen and been attacked through decades, we see nothing but more murder and mayhem. Whether believing or true or not, there are decency standards and laws based on that. You do NOT hurt OTHER people for your own selfish reasons.

I am going to add again here and may get in trouble. We actually had a prayer before snack, etc. in kindergarten in my era. And I think in first and more. Churches and schools were often on the same land. Not saying there's never been anything done wrong by for instance the Catholic church and priests believe me I am not on board with that and not Catholic but for instance their church and schools were always part of the same lot and still are today in many cases, although dwindling. I am Lutheran or I guess was, I don't go to church much, but my elementary school also in a very small under 100 probably town was also right next door.

Whether anyone believes or disses, the commandments at least are the basis for most of our laws. And whether one does religion or not, they are good basic rules. You don't steal. You don't kill. You don't adult. Etc.

I realize I am going on. Heckuva day yesterday into wee hours.

But what is it that lacks in these murderers? I'm sorry, but they are indulging and lack a guide or conscience in what things they want and the sick satisfaction, profit or revenge even it gives them.

I follow a pretty basic moral compass because if there is hope of seeing my lost loved ones again, I am not risking it. May sound simple, but it works and has my entire life. Well in my 20s I probably danced until it all settled. If someone **** on me at that age, i'd get them back in some way. Not anything like hurting or murder. Pay back by calling them on it mostly. But by 25 at most everything settled...

Man I am sorry. I know I say it a lot but this week was truly a helluva week and yesterday, a day "off" was something else into the wee hours.

Just I guess trying to shed some of it as well as understand murderers like this... Stopping. Phone just blew up so here I probably go again today...
 
I guess you could say that murderers have no moral compass. They can justify it in their warped minds. Then they think they will be forgiven by turning to the bible, as RA and many others do, it seems. The case I just posted also included drug taking, which was mentioned, so that has an effect, as well as alcohol abuse. So their moral compass can be destroyed or altered off course by drugs and alcohol?
 
I don't know if he is insane. Something tells me you have to be insane or at least something not right to do this. There was a young guy from Delphi who was at school with Libby's sister and he brutally killed an ex boyfriend of his girlfriend and hid him in a cupboard. He lived in Lafayette and he pled insanity. I followed the trial. At one time I suspected him of being BG. But since they arrested RA, who admitted being on the trails, then i have been convinced it is him and with the confessions and all the other evidence I think they have the right guy.
Every time I hear this about the insanity excuse I think of serial killer Bob Berdella that was asked why he didn't claim insanity. His response was that he thought it was a cop out since one had to be insane to purposely kill someone. I could not disagree with him.
 
I guess you could say that murderers have no moral compass. They can justify it in their warped minds. Then they think they will be forgiven by turning to the bible, as RA and many others do, it seems. The case I just posted also included drug taking, which was mentioned, so that has an effect, as well as alcohol abuse. So their moral compass can be destroyed or altered off course by drugs and alcohol?
A moral compass can definitely be altered by drugs and alcohol. Not that it's a good excuse but it 100% does happen often.
 
I guess you could say that murderers have no moral compass. They can justify it in their warped minds. Then they think they will be forgiven by turning to the bible, as RA and many others do, it seems. The case I just posted also included drug taking, which was mentioned, so that has an effect, as well as alcohol abuse. So their moral compass can be destroyed or altered off course by drugs and alcohol?
Exactly. Something in them allows them to cross a line most would never. And imo for their own purposes, self satisfaction sickly like rape and torture which I can't comprehend at all, greed, money, control, custody, is another one. Revenge would be another imo. And then maybe to kill someone that is going to out them on something they did and cause them issues.

Whatever the case, they go beyond the boundaries most would even if tempted or fantasixing would never allow themselves to. And I am not trying to talk of religion but there is something to it at if you believe you will be damned for all eternity to HE77 it helps stop you.

I am not even going to try to pretend to understand such a mind but sure see enough of it to know it's for their own needs and wants and sick desires in most cases.

I have trouble with the insanity thing in such cases. If there is one hint they covered up, hid their crime or planned it, then that should be off the table. it just isn't an excuse.

And again, I don't think there's been a single word said that RA was insane when these crimes were committed anyhow.

In fact, there's no insanity defense going on or being set up.

This has been a lost day too. I have been in contact with three different managers at work giving a long time head's up of could I not come in tomorrow and can't get a single answer, since YESTERDAY. Accomplishing nothing, texts and calls between realtor and I, neighbor and I to my property, and helper guy who helps oversee the place is safe and cared for. have laundry in the wash and that's about it. I really need tomorrow off but can't get a flipping response.

And I NEVER ASK for such and gave plenty of head's up.

Enough of that. Can't even take a moment to be on here or relax or watch something. Stressed beyond.

But then that's nothing compared to what these families are going through.

Just some hard days.

I hope I can have some calm as I'm overwrought right now to see Tom's show on the status hearing since I know there won't be any live coverage. I almost in fact forgot about such until just now. And will probably forget again momentarily when my phone blows up.
 
Every time I hear this about the insanity excuse I think of serial killer Bob Berdella that was asked why he didn't claim insanity. His response was that he thought it was a cop out since one had to be insane to purposely kill someone. I could not disagree with him.
So all killers are insane - i cannot argue with that either.
 
Every time I hear this about the insanity excuse I think of serial killer Bob Berdella that was asked why he didn't claim insanity. His response was that he thought it was a cop out since one had to be insane to purposely kill someone. I could not disagree with him.
I've had not a great couple of days and I am not following and admit the brain has been overloaded. Someone is going to need to explain this to me...?

So was he saying he did not do it and so he was not the insane one who did?

I am sure, positive in fact, that I am missing the point...
 
So all killers are insane - i cannot argue with that either.
I'm lost as to what her post meant. I can't even process such an overload. Can't even count how many texts and calls had yesterday and today.

Phones are acting up. More. When I NEED them.

The older I get the more I think of many things as a human concept and label.

It may sound like I am making no sense but who is insane? is it those we "normal" ones THINK ARE are or is it us that are and "they" are NORMAL?

Not sure If that takes a bit of sense but some killers are very beyond bright and intelligent for one....

I tend to go with the standard that I actually do agree with and that's knowing right from wrong, planning, cover up, hiding showing you know, etc.

I sure don't agree with all in our system these days but I do agree with that.

We have a norm and you either wrap to it to society norms or you don't. Or at least within the laws...

Anyone acting differently must be insane? Not.

I don't know. I know I don't buy insanity with RA, I will just keep it at that. He was not insane through 100 or more confessions nor when he murdered these girls.

The guy who helps take care of my property sent me a video of walking a full 360 perimeter and I fell apart. The grass is green, they just mowed it, the corn is tall, the privacy is awesome, It's beautiful and fills the soul and this was a video. I have sold it pretty sure and feel such a loss. I know this is off topic but it's just been a hard few days and definitely a hard few weeks.

I do NOT want to sell the place but life dictates I will never be able to be there or do anything with it again anyhow.

What a loss of a prize. But need to move on and salvage what I can.

I need to shake off a very hard couple of days and transition. Hearing in this today and Tom will have a show.
 
Last edited:
I'm lost as to what her post meant. I can't even process such an overload. Can't even count how many texts and calls had yesterday and today.

Phones are acting up. More. When I NEED them.

The older I get the more I think of many things as a human concept and label.

It may sound like I am making no sense but who is insane? is it those we "normal" ones THINK ARE are or is it us that are and "they" are NORMAL?

Not sure If that takes a bit of sense but some killers are very beyond bright and intelligent for one....

I tend to go with the standard that I actually do agree with and that's knowing right from wrong, planning, cover up, hiding showing you know, etc.

I sure don't agree with all in our system these days but I do agree with that.

We have a norm and you either wrap to it to society norms or you don't. Or at least within the laws...

Anyone acting differently must be insane? Not.

I don't know. I know I don't buy insanity with RA, I will just keep it at that. He was not insane through 100 or more confessions nor when he murdered these girls.

The guy who helps take care of my property sent me a video of walking a full 360 perimeter and I fell apart. The grass is green, they just mowed it, the corn is tall, the privacy is awesome, It's beautiful and fills the soul and this was a video. I have sold it pretty sure and feel such a loss. I know this is off topic but it's just been a hard few days and definitely a hard few weeks.

I do NOT want to sell the place but life dictates I will never be able to be there or do anything with it again anyhow.

What a loss of a prize. But need to move on and salvage what I can.

I need to shake off a very hard couple of days and transition. Hearing in this today and Tom will have a show.
I fixed the one paragraph so bringing forward so it is read right. Just having a very hard time. I had no idea this would hit me like it has. I feel like I've had nothing but loss after loss for a decade now. Forgive me. Falling apart at the moment.
 
I've had not a great couple of days and I am not following and admit the brain has been overloaded. Someone is going to need to explain this to me...?

So was he saying he did not do it and so he was not the insane one who did?

I am sure, positive in fact, that I am missing the point...
No - he is saying all killers are insane, i think.
 
No - he is saying all killers are insane, i think.
man, I finally see it. cop out meaning of course, all killers are.

I couldn't see it.

but then not been the best of days. been up and down for days.

trying to get some equilibrium back.

I can't recall if Tom is my time or Eastern or what, but he should have a show coming up. I NEED something like that to take my mind off other things.
 
man, I finally see it. cop out meaning of course, all killers are.

I couldn't see it.

but then not been the best of days. been up and down for days.

trying to get some equilibrium back.

I can't recall if Tom is my time or Eastern or what, but he should have a show coming up. I NEED something like that to take my mind off other things.

Call in a sick day tomorrow if they haven't got back to you on the day off. In the UK, this weekend has a big bank holiday on Monday - the last public holiday before the kids go back to school so motorway was really busy heading into my county town as it is the main route to West Wales, so lots of holiday makers heading down here.
 
Call in a sick day tomorrow if they haven't got back to you on the day off. In the UK, this weekend has a big bank holiday on Monday - the last public holiday before the kids go back to school so motorway was really busy heading into my county town as it is the main route to West Wales, so lots of holiday makers heading down here.
I was gotten back to with a no. They have a lot of returns, etc.

In hindisight, I should have just called in tomorrow BUT they have been cutting hours and trying to cut on payroll and I thought maybe they'd be glad to have someone off and I asked two days ahead and said just with the home thing and won't go into but a lot of other things, I could really use it. And thought they might be happy to have such, most are ticked when being cut short on hours or sent home, etc. lately.

Now I can't call in sick. I already gave my reasons and asked for it off and it of course would look as if doing it because I did not get it off.

Something is going on around there lately, or with the corp, I tell you. The economy is hitting hard for one and but I tell ya management too is different or something. They cut hours and you can't do a thing about it but then they are shorthanded. We may get busy and there isn't enough staff in any area. From what we are told (we aren't told anything which is another thing but you end up maybe hearing it somehow anyhow), it may appear busy and is but the sales totals of customers are not what they are in most years.

However then it also boomerangs in shelves aren't stocked or faced and or freight put out and then customers are upset because what they came in for isn't on the shelf.

Been there almost two years now and never seen this but they are being pressured from above from what I know.

This economy cannot keep going down the road it is.

Anyhow, so calling in sick is not an option now, I should have just done that. Now it would be obvious I had already asked for it off, did not get it, so called in sick...

There have also been some changes as to ways and rules...

Not real enamored with what I've been seeing. And I'd say morale is down and employees, even managers, are worried...

I don't mean to whine but I really hit the end of things today, and hard. Not been a good couple of days or last few weeks actually.

To get on topic, I just looked to see if Tom had his show scheduled but nothing so far. This was of course before typing out this post so maybe ten minutes ago. Anyone heard anything of this status hearing today yet?
 
I was gotten back to with a no. They have a lot of returns, etc.

In hindisight, I should have just called in tomorrow BUT they have been cutting hours and trying to cut on payroll and I thought maybe they'd be glad to have someone off and I asked two days ahead and said just with the home thing and won't go into but a lot of other things, I could really use it. And thought they might be happy to have such, most are ticked when being cut short on hours or sent home, etc. lately.

Now I can't call in sick. I already gave my reasons and asked for it off and it of course would look as if doing it because I did not get it off.

Something is going on around there lately, or with the corp, I tell you. The economy is hitting hard for one and but I tell ya management too is different or something. They cut hours and you can't do a thing about it but then they are shorthanded. We may get busy and there isn't enough staff in any area. From what we are told (we aren't told anything which is another thing but you end up maybe hearing it somehow anyhow), it may appear busy and is but the sales totals of customers are not what they are in most years.

However then it also boomerangs in shelves aren't stocked or faced and or freight put out and then customers are upset because what they came in for isn't on the shelf.

Been there almost two years now and never seen this but they are being pressured from above from what I know.

This economy cannot keep going down the road it is.

Anyhow, so calling in sick is not an option now, I should have just done that. Now it would be obvious I had already asked for it off, did not get it, so called in sick...

There have also been some changes as to ways and rules...

Not real enamored with what I've been seeing. And I'd say morale is down and employees, even managers, are worried...

I don't mean to whine but I really hit the end of things today, and hard. Not been a good couple of days or last few weeks actually.

To get on topic, I just looked to see if Tom had his show scheduled but nothing so far. This was of course before typing out this post so maybe ten minutes ago. Anyone heard anything of this status hearing today yet?
No, i looked for something earlier on it but nothing so far. I'll look again though.
 
No, i looked for something earlier on it but nothing so far. I'll look again though.
I just looked too and nothing. Been quite the day as it is and I am unusually irritated over it. It is just like the case, all secret. I'm just in a mood so ignore me.

Tom SAID he figured about six. All I can figure is it is ongoing and no word is out yet from anyone attending because they can't tweet or anything else...
 
Public portion never happened. All behind closed doors.

Both sides filed new motions, all that is known...
 
Defense filed two things related to Dr. Wala. Want records of employment of Wala and to see if her behavior is a pattern of hers.

Good Lord, this is never going to stop. Any of it. On all sides.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,374
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom