PAUL & MAGGIE MURDAUGH: South Carolina vs. Alex Murdaugh for Double Homicide of wife & son *GUILTY*

This case is being kept pretty quiet, no major details released to speak of (other than it does say there were two different guns used), but no info regarding who found them, who called 911, very little else.

Of interest, the grandfather died just a few days after these murders and it sounds as if he was ill from various articles so probably not unexpected. I think of the typical motives, did grandpa have a big estate? How big in the overall family of grandpa's on down? They sound like a pretty well known family and a powerful one in their state, more on that in the article.

Questions abound in SC Murdaugh killing. Among them: Should prosecutor step aside?

Several days after two members of a prominent Hampton County family were fatally shot, questions about what happened still vastly outnumber answers.

www.postandcourier.com

 

[kdg411]

State's last day of testimony

Yes, I'm quoting my own post.

State rested after lengthy & intense testimony from SLED SA Peter Rudofski who presented the GM Suburban GPS data along with the infotainment data, cell data, maps etc.

Here is a link to the actual presentation.

Defense called two witnesses; (from my notes)
Richard Harvey - Colleton County coroner; arrived on crime scene and tried to determine time of death by placing his hand in the armpit of the deceased for body temperature
Shalane Tindal - former lead spokeswoman for the Colleton County SO

 

[Tresir]

Time of death could have been as early as 8 PM or as late as 10 PM according to the coroner.



Harvey says he was notified 10:30 p.m. He arrived on scene at 11:04 p.m. He took photographs, including inside the feed room. He did that before SLED’s crime scene unit arrived, he said.

Harvey estimated Paul and Maggie’s time of death as 9 p.m. Harpootlian: How did you come to that? Harven: First thing I did, “I simply put my hands in their armpits to determine how warm they are.”

Harvey: “That was all I did initially because I knew SLED was coming.” He figured they had been dead between one to three hours.

Ok so at 11 PM he estimated they could have been dead between 1- 3 hours. So between 8 till 10 PM they could have died but we know they were seen/heard on the 8:44pm video and AM called 911 at 10:11 so that narrows it down to a period of approx 1.5 hours for the TOD.

 

[kdg411]

Time of death could have been as early as 8 PM or as late as 10 PM according to the coroner.



Harvey says he was notified 10:30 p.m. He arrived on scene at 11:04 p.m. He took photographs, including inside the feed room. He did that before SLED’s crime scene unit arrived, he said.

Harvey estimated Paul and Maggie’s time of death as 9 p.m. Harpootlian: How did you come to that? Harven: First thing I did, “I simply put my hands in their armpits to determine how warm they are.”

Harvey: “That was all I did initially because I knew SLED was coming.” He figured they had been dead between one to three hours.

Ok so at 11 PM he estimated they could have been dead between 1- 3 hours. So between 8 till 10 PM they could have died but we know they were seen/heard on the 8:44pm video and AM called 911 at 10:11 so that narrows it down to a period of approx 1.5 hours for the TOD.

This coroner has NO medical training or licensing. He is an elected person who was called to a crime scene to confirm a person is deceased. The State's Medical Examiner Dr. Riemer was much more qualified and educated to determine an approximate time. MOO

 

[Tresir]

This coroner has NO medical training or licensing. He is an elected person who was called to a crime scene to confirm a person is deceased. The State's Medical Examiner Dr. Riemer was much more qualified and educated to determine an approximate time. MOO

Well he has been the coroner for 30 years so the jury will take it for what it is worth. I am sure he has attended a lot of deaths in that time. I will have to check Dr. Riemers evidence and when she attended the scene. We can already also cut it down to an approx 1.25 hour time window based on the circumstantial evidence.

(Ok I see that Dr. Riemer did the autopsies three days after the murders. She gave no evidence about the time of death.)

 

[Tresir]

Here are some potential strategies for Alex Murdaugh's defense team in double murder trial

Here are the potential strategies Alex Murdaugh's defense team will implement, the evidence they will present, and the witnesses they might call.

eu.greenvilleonline.com

 

[Guess Who]

Well he has been the coroner for 30 years so the jury will take it for what it is worth. I am sure he has attended a lot of deaths in that time. I will have to check Dr. Riemers evidence and when she attended the scene. We can already also cut it down to an approx 1.25 hour time window based on the circumstantial evidence.

(Ok I see that Dr. Riemer did the autopsies three days after the murders. She gave no evidence about the time of death.)

Just because he as for 30 years does not mean he is qualified as a medical professional. He was elected. We should take that at what it's worth.

 

[Guess Who]

Well he has been the coroner for 30 years so the jury will take it for what it is worth. I am sure he has attended a lot of deaths in that time. I will have to check Dr. Riemers evidence and when she attended the scene. We can already also cut it down to an approx 1.25 hour time window based on the circumstantial evidence.

(Ok I see that Dr. Riemer did the autopsies three days after the murders. She gave no evidence about the time of death.)

Here are the minuscule requirements to being elected one in my state
Are coroners elected in Missouri?
No person shall be elected or appointed to the office of coroner unless he be a citizen of the United States, over the age of twenty-one years, and shall have resided within the state one whole year, and within the county for which he is elected, six months next preceding the election. Mo.

Does that sound like somebody that has a medical background?

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Many coroners do not need ANY medical or science background whatsoever. It's quite disturbing. People put their trust in coroners as they ASSUME they have any form of training. But many do not. Good article here.

Who decides cause of death? It may be a business owner -- or an 18-year-old | CNN

The expertise and availability of coroners, who determine cause of death in criminal and unexplained cases, varies widely across the country.

www.cnn.com

Each state has its own laws governing the investigation of violent and unexplained deaths, and most delegate the task to cities, counties, and regional districts. The job can be held by an elected coroner as young as 18 or a highly trained physician appointed as medical examiner. Some death investigators work for elected sheriffs who try to avoid controversy or owe political favors. Others own funeral homes and direct bodies to their private businesses.

Overall, it’s a disjointed and chronically underfunded system — with more than 2,000 offices across the country that determine the cause of death in about 600,000 cases a year.


The various titles used by death investigators don’t distinguish the discrepancies in their credentials. Some communities rely on coroners, who may be elected or appointed to their offices, and may — or may not — have medical training. Medical examiners, on the other hand, are typically doctors who have completed residencies in forensic pathology.

In 2009, the National Research Council recommended that states replace coroners with medical examiners, describing a system “in need of significant improvement.”

Massachusetts was the first state to replace coroners with medical examiners statewide in 1877. As of 2019, 22 states and the District of Columbia had only medical examiners, 14 states had only coroners, and 14 had a mix, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

[kdg411]

Well he has been the coroner for 30 years so the jury will take it for what it is worth. I am sure he has attended a lot of deaths in that time. I will have to check Dr. Riemers evidence and when she attended the scene. We can already also cut it down to an approx 1.25 hour time window based on the circumstantial evidence.

(Ok I see that Dr. Riemer did the autopsies three days after the murders. She gave no evidence about the time of death.)

Here's a clip of Dr. Ellen Riemer's testimony. She is a licensed medical doctor and is Board Certified in Forensic Pathology & Anatomic Pathology. LOTS of other credentials are mentioned within the first few minutes of this testimony.

 

[kdg411]

SC Coroner qualifications

Code of Laws - Title 17 - Chapter 5 - Coroners And Medical Examiners

www.scstatehouse.gov

 

[Tresir]

Just because he as for 30 years does not mean he is qualified as a medical professional. He was elected. We should take that at what it's worth.

The coroner is elected every four years. No one else has given an estimated time of death so that is all the court has got. He is the coroner and doesn't have to be a qualified medical professional AFAIK and is just giving an estimate of TOD. Has any other person given a TOD?

 

[Tresir]

Here's a clip of Dr. Ellen Riemer's testimony. She is a licensed medical doctor and is Board Certified in Forensic Pathology & Anatomic Pathology. LOTS of other credentials are mentioned within the first few minutes of this testimony.

Does she give a TOD? I think she will just give COD.

 

[kdg411]

Does she give a TOD? I think she will just give COD.

No, she does not give a TOD.

Here is the Colleton County Coroner's testimony who provides the TOD of 9pm.

 

[Tresir]

Here are the minuscule requirements to being elected one in my state
Are coroners elected in Missouri?
No person shall be elected or appointed to the office of coroner unless he be a citizen of the United States, over the age of twenty-one years, and shall have resided within the state one whole year, and within the county for which he is elected, six months next preceding the election. Mo.

Does that sound like somebody that has a medical background?

He's the coroner. Has been elected every 4 years for 30 years presumably. Has presumably had some training. He has given an estimated TOD in his testimony. Jury will evaluate his testimony.

 

[Guess Who]

The coroner is elected every four years. No one else has given an estimated time of death so that is all the court has got. He is the coroner and doesn't have to be a qualified medical professional AFAIK and is just giving an estimate of TOD. Has any other person given a TOD?

Getting elected doesn't make you a medical professional. EVERY coroner should be a medical professional. I can't believe people vote for those that aren't.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I came in very late to this trial, but from what I've seen and heard, I'm not convinced a jury is going to convict him. I think there is enough reasonable doubt for this jury. The guy is a famous lawyer in the area. Granted, he's a slimeball and the jury can see his dirty business dealings. However, I find the states theory that he killed them to gain sympathy to be a little far fetched. I believe he did it, but that's a weak theory, IMO. Also, the two guns makes it look like more than one person was involved.

 

[Tresir]

Getting elected doesn't make you a medical professional. EVERY coroner should be a medical professional. I can't believe people vote for those that aren't.

I don't think I said that getting elected makes you a medical professional. However in his testimony he said he is medically trained.

He also explains how he comes up with TOD. He says rigor mortis (when the joints stiffen) sets in between 1 and 3 hours after death and that had not happened. He was there at just after 11 pm. It would be interesting to know when the rigor mortis did begin but I don't know if that was documented at all by anyone.

 

[Guess Who]

I don't think I said that getting elected makes you a medical professional. However in his testimony he said he is medicpmally trained.

He also explains how he comes up with TOD. He says rigor mortis (when the joints stiffen) sets in between 1 and 3 hours after death and that had not happened. He was there at just after 11 pm. It would be interesting to know when the rigor mortis did begin but I don't know if that was documented at all by anyone.

and by that alone, then added to when Paul and Maggie last used their phones, the approx TOD of about 9pm still stands as probably correct. We know Paul was alive right before 9pm.

 

[Tresir]

Here are the minuscule requirements to being elected one in my state
Are coroners elected in Missouri?
No person shall be elected or appointed to the office of coroner unless he be a citizen of the United States, over the age of twenty-one years, and shall have resided within the state one whole year, and within the county for which he is elected, six months next preceding the election. Mo.

Does that sound like somebody that has a medical background?

This case is South Carolina so I don't see why Missouri is relevant in this thread.

If the Carrolton County LE were there and SLED turned up later, hopefully someone noticed when rigor mortis set in and then they would have a clearer TOD. The coroner was there just after 11 but he did not say when he left. It seems pretty slapdash of all of them that they did not have a more accurate TOD, considering how important it is to the case.

 

[Guess Who]

This case is South Carolina so I don't see why Missouri is relevant in this thread.

If the Carrolton County LE were there and SLED turned up later, hopefully someone noticed when rigor mortis set in and then they would have a clearer TOD. The coroner was there just after 11 but he did not say when he left. It seems pretty slapdash of all of them that they did not have a more accurate TOD, considering how important it is to the case.

We know they were alive right before 9pm and dead at 10. That's about as good as anybody would be able to tell. There is no exact time of death in any unattended death. Blood evidence - coagulation - would be the best evidence on this case, not temps.