DAVID "DAVE" EDWIN LEWIS: Murder & arson 13 miles east of Ashland, OR - 4 September 2008

David "Dave" Lewis was a 46 year old father of three. A jack of all trades and good man in any camp, Dave was well known and well respected in his mountain community where he lived on the summit of Dead Indian Memorial Road, 13 miles east of Ashland, Jackson County, Oregon for more than 20 years.

David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

Edited to add media link: Dave Lewis was found murdered in his rural cabin east of Ashland, Oregon in 2008. His murder remains UNSOLVED!

 

[GrandmaBear]

The VI on WS has suggested that Dave was at Hyatt Lake over Labor Day. I have asked them directly if they know if he was actually there and they have never answered directly


AFAIK Troy's last movements are leaving the Pilot Center around 6:00 pm on Labor Day, Monday September 1 2008

I have heard that Dave was in Ashland running errands that day (the 3rd) and possibly at Hyatt Lake on the evening/night of Wednesday September 3rd.

I have asked LE to confirm where & when & by whom David was last seen and they have declined that request.

Precisely. It's been almost 15.5 years

David used to work for the owners at Hyatt Lake building custom additions & decks for the resort RV/cabins and it was the place closest to home for a beer and dinner, maybe hanging out with friends after fishing, watching football, etc.

David was a great fisherman, his friends called him Fish Hook because he could catch a fish where he dropped a line. He loved that lake like it was his own.

Hyatt Lake Recreation Area | Bureau of Land Management

Overview

www.blm.gov

Cascade Siskiyou Scenic Bikeway

The only thing prettier than seeing Ashland as you stroll through its downtown is seeing the city nestled in its valley from far above – a view you can

traveloregon.com

The VI on WS and the whomurdereddavelewis blogs make a big deal about an altercation between David & the resort owner and other connections to supposedly corrupt politicians and other community members.

I have never been a fan of the theory and have yet to untangle the supposed series of events which may have led to Dave's demise.

I appreciate all of your questions, it's great that everyone is talking through this and taking it seriously.

He was at the Hyatt over Labor Day meaning all weekend per the VI?

And then he was on September 3rd after running errands in Ashland?

All not verified I get that.

The "friend" in the video I think @Tresir posted said he did not agree with what the resort was doing, felt it wrong or illegal, then the resort got red flagged (did he cause that?) and were to stop building and owners told him and others to build anyhow and he refused but his coworkers did not and it upset him greatly that his coworkers didn't align with him or something on that order. I am paraphrasing. When was that and was he still working there or receiving an income from them? Why would you still go there? Oh I get it is the closest bar and restaurant, etc. but this is some pretty big stuff. Was he paid in cash when he worked there and did he carry a bar tab? I'm serious. Did he deal in cash or reported income? I am looking for motive is my reason for asking.

You said he didn't suffer fools gladly. That remark kind of bothers me in that it just again gives an idea of a moral superiority or condescension or attitude. I'm not saying that to diss Dave but that knid of opinion or attitude could certainly rub others very wrong. And I also have to point out was he never foolish or make a foolish decision. We learned of time in the federal pen, a string of what was it assaults and domestics on the dissolution of his marriage, an acrimonious divorce (I had one so believe me I don't judge) and beating up a sex offender and doing time over that! It doesn't go over well when some think they know what is right and wrong and tell others what they are doing wrong when their own life isn't a great example. And that's WITHOUT if you are whistleblowing or trying to get someone to stop what you don['t like. All I am saying is it paints a picture of a man who could easily create a lot of enemies for himself.

I'm sure he was awesome with a lot of great traits but someone killed him and it seems to be someone/s who was very angry. Of course it could have been over cash or drugs, who knows.

I think the resort thing is more likely than the relative I'm sorry to say. Yet I also think it could be neither and he pi**ed off someone on a different level, another bar patron, a husband, a former coworker, I don't know.

The relatie from what you''ve said, or the VI, I get them confused yeah I guess has said some things and not all make sense or seem questionable maybe. Like didn't you say he was at the Hyatt but then said the said Troy had been seen with someone that looked like Dave? Which is it?

I don't know but what I do know is the more learned, the less clear cut this is. I'm also not sure why you dismiss the resort thing so easily. Or money, power and the area you yourself say is so gorgeous and valuable.

Although I'd more often lean towards something being "close to home" or someone "closer to him" but I don't mean someone from out of state. He pi*sed off the wrong person or people it seems to me.

Of course I'm not sold on anything yet. I also feel if his and Troy's murders are connected in any way it is in no outright or obvious way. I'm not even convinced that's the truth.

With all due respect, the firewood and Pilot theory is less crazy than all the things you think this relative did including torching Troy's campsite two weeks later even if it was the same day as a memorial. I am finding that all pretty hard to believe. There's no benefit.

I've ruled nothing out though of course and no offense intended.

But I tend to think if this relative has no alibi and could be shown to have been in that area and more, this case would have been a lot more heated up and that would be one red hot lead, and that's never been the case.

Sorry, just where I'm at at the moment. I think it was someone local and someone he dealt with or encountered in his daily life or a connection to such.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Ok so he worked at Hyatt lake and socialised there as well as fishing. So it is likely he was there the weekend of his death too.

Yeah and I think that is the thing that is most likely related. That night, what happened, who was there, if he closed the bar, any strangers there, foe there, ticked someone off, etc. He had walked out on that job and yet hung there even though disagreeing with all they did or were doing and that sticks with me.

 

[Tresir]

An outline and some thoughts about what I will call the "firewood theory" being discussed

Troy Carney- found murdered in his sleeping bag on the Bear Creek Greenway near the Pilot Center in Central Point Oregon (approximately 20 miles N of Ashland Oregon on I-5) on the afternoon of September 4, 2008

1) Troy's mom told me fairly recently that when she had spoken with Troy, he told her he had been offered a 1/2 days work helping someone Troy didn't name with a firewood delivery.
AFAIK- LW doesn't know where the delivery was going to be delivered to, by whom or how. Troy did not have a vehicle of his own.

2) Troy's mom told me that she offered to wire him $100 for a bus ticket to help him get out of the Rogue Valley and get back up to the Willamette Valley or somewhere else with more work for him. The Pilot Center is also a Greyhound Bus Stop

3) Troy's mom, LW wired the money after speaking with him on the afternoon of Labor Day September 1, 2008. This is the last known contact with Troy.

4) The wired money was not picked up and LW said that was one of the first things LE asked her about
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David Lewis- found murdered in his mountain top cabin in the early morning of September 4 2008, 13 miles east of Ashland Oregon at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road

1) David made his living doing welding, construction, odd jobs, and very occasionally by cutting firewood

2) He did cut a large amount of wood for his own use, approximately 7 cords to get through a normal winter.
He worked year round when the ground was clear to keep up on this sometimes monumental task

*In approximately 2006, a friend of mine and my employer at the time needed some extra firewood for their own home in the mountains. Dave wasn't interested in delivering as it takes a ton of gas in a big truck and it's time consuming and all that so David asked them to come up to his place to pick it up and he helped load it.

3) Dave would definitely have helped a neighbor in need if they asked him for anything or he knew that they couldn't do for themselves, whether it was plowing a driveway, hauling in some groceries or splitting some firewood. Survival can be tenuous in the mountains and it's helpful to have a neighbor like Dave looking out

4) David would have been VERY UNLIKELY to be at the Pilot Center for any reason unless he HAD to go to Central Point for something. Dave wasn't a town guy and most anything needed he could've gotten in Ashland or Medford

️️️️️️️️️️️️
The relative that was expected to "just show up" after being told no

1) Asked LW if the firewood guy that offered Troy the job could be Dave Lewis

2) The VI on WS has suggested recently that Troy or someone that looked like Troy had been seen with David at Hyatt Lake over Labor Day weekend or on Monday Labor Day September 1 2008 AND was the source of an argument with the resort owner
*AFAIK this has never been documented

3) *Could Dave's relative have offered the firewood job to Troy; whether Dave needed help with a delivery or not, could this supposed "firewood delivery job" have been a ruse or a ploy to lure Troy to Hyatt Lake or to Dave's house or into Dave's vehicle in order to manufacture evidence that "someone" was seen with Dave that weekend or over Labor Day
*purely speculation on my part

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Why would Troy need to be lured to Hyatt Lake to be seen with Dave for evidence? Evidence of what? That they knew each other? Wasnt Dave often seen there anyway, working and leisure? Also, if Troy had no vehicle, how would he get from the Pilot Centre to Hyatt Lake to meet Dave after 6pm unless Dave picked him up from there?

Sorry for all the questions but this is the only way we will make any sense of it. At present there is no solid connection, yet LE have said they are linked. So how are they linked and LE won't say - why is that?

Is there CCTV at Hyatt Lake where Dave and Troy were allegedly together? That would be huge. And it would have to be after that 6pm CCTV at the Pilot centre, presumably, if so.

 

[Tresir]

LE has been very tight lipped. No release of reports, documentation, POI or suspect, evidence, when or where Dave was seen, nothing. I don't recall if I asked about the connection specifically


No. She lives in Florida which is thousands of miles from Oregon


I know he spoke with her every day. I don't know when the last time was that he had visited her, I have never asked.

So when Dave's relative contacted Troy's mum, it was by phone presumably? So she knew where Troy's mum lived and had her contact details.

 

[Tresir]

Yes, this relative lived in the area in the 80's-90's and their husband's family lived on and have owned a SUBSTANTIAL number of properties on DIMR for generations (since mid 1800's when the area was first settled)

Just rereading some posts to see what I have missed. What is DIMR? Ah Dead Indian etc just realised. Gee I haven't woken up properly today.

If inlaws family owned a lot of property, why would Dave's relative need money from him? I don't get it really.

Sorry for all the questions but I will not be around for some time today and needed to get them in early today LOL.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Just rereading some posts to see what I have missed. What is DIMR? Ah Dead Indian etc just realised. Gee I haven't woken up properly today.

If inlaws family owned a lot of property, why would Dave's relative need money from him? I don't get it really.

Sorry for all the questions but I will not be around for some time today and needed to get them in early today LOL.

I don't get a lot of this stuff either. I can only think like any long ongoing solved case, there's a lot of suggestion and speculation that's leaked in over the years. I honestly see no connection between Dave and Troy and I really don't see a lot of similarity in the crimes. In the very beginning I thought we had two men killed and two fires like on the same day in a low crime area or something but it turns out that isn't the case at all.

I find it odd that the relative would want Dave's money as well and it would seem to me that that person and spouse was likely better off than Dave. However, people can be odd, maybe that person just wanted all of mom's money. Also some people are property rich but have no actual cash but I get what you mean, they could sell property or finance one if money was needed. Is the relative still married? I guess also just because inlaws own property it does't mean they do or share in it in any way.

As to Troy and David being seen together, to me that sounds unlikely and likely a totally unfounded rumor.

I'm thinking they aren't connected, these crimes, even though several fires is unusual, so many things are different. I wonder if the perp in Troy's on all the speculation of a connection after Dave's murder and those two fires, went back to start a fire at Troy's camping area to throw LE off and make them SEEM more connected and throw them off the real perp's trail... I don't know. I'm just not seeing any connection at all or reason to even think there is one. David was lit on fire, they suspect tied up (not sure how they'd know that) and a lot more done there and time taken. With Troy it is like someone was walking by or knew where he was and walked up, shot him in his sleep and walked on doing nothing more. I'm sure the others camping nearby heard the gunshot though no? This could well have been done by someone camping nearby imo as well.

A question I have is--is this his first night of sleeping/staying there? Had he been with the friends that were having issues because of his presence up until that day?

It's kind of difficult in that remarks about Troy here don't end up in the Troy thread yet they need their separate threads.

I honestly am not seeing nor sensing a real connection. I don't even really trust LE saying there is one. I think that may be to throw both perps off. Each would know they didn't do the other murder and so it would leave them assured LE was not on the right path? Or alternatively it would worry each that they would be blamed for another they did not commit... I do NOT know...

What I DO know is I think it time the authorities are called out and some answers demanded, are the families doing so? Is anyone? What are they doing on these cases, ANYTHING?

Lots of new forensic avenues these days. Cell phone data is likely out. Dave was apparently tech phobic and not sure if Troy carried one. It would seem like not as it was said he used the phones at the truck stop but then I can't figure out how his mom tried calling him if he didn't have one so did he?

DNA is probably out in both cases EXCEPT for the stuff outdoors that was messed with in Dave's...

I'd also like to know more about Troy. Ever married? Kids? Had he been wandering most of his life like this? Criminal history if any. Any drug or alcohol problems? Was he ever settled down anywhere? All sorts of things. With Dave too. Not to judge the victims or anything but for a full picture to understand what their life was like and who may have a motive and so on.

Did Dave pay child support after his divorce and up to his death? It sounds as if there was one minor child yet at that time. Did he have any other debt, how was his credit? That may sound like dumb questions that don't relate but I guess I wonder why he didn't buy his own place, cash his mom's checks (if he had judgments or back support or collections after him could be a reason is my thinking here...) For some reason, I am starting to picture him as someone who did all on a cash basis but then I have to wonder if the resort paid him in cash which seems unlikely but who knows...

He is starting to sound to me like a bit of a judgmental and hot tempered guy. Not necessarily bad meaning, maybe well meant in what he felt to be right or wrong but in a number of assaults or domestics or whatever around his divorce, beating up a sex offender, walking off the job (that one is a bit different), those things are notable and not all well meant responses.

And then Red Clover said wasn't it the last winter that was particularly brutal for him living there and he'd lost a ton of weight and so on? That's all easy to understand and may mean nothing, I've lived severe winters where you can' get out for days repeatedly or weeks even and if you do it takes a LOT. So I understand it. However, that also could mean weight gain lol being stuck, I guess I mean serious weight loss and looking haggard may not be due to just that.

Just kind of thinking as I type... Talking out loud. I don't know....

I feel like Troy's death could have been entirely random. It could have been someone just entirely ticked he was there or sleeping there for all we know or felt he was in their spot or too near.

I keep asking some questions as I don't think we know enough about the two victims for one thing, Troy especially and I almost feel like something is missing in both cases like an elephant in the room. You know it is there but don't know what it is.

Was either murder a hate crime, drug related, money related, fraud/theft related, spurned lover related, angry husband related, etc., etc., etc.?

And with that I'm done. A bit frustrated with it at the moment and I'll just repeat I think after so long, LE needs to just change it up. After this long, if i were a family member and justice seemed this unlikely, I'd want them to release what they have, names and all and case file. Has anyone tried FOIA requests in this one (these cases)? If they refuse citing an ongoing investigation I'd have to laugh and then they should need to give evidence of how active they are on it and what new efforts they are making and that new info or evidence has been collected and i seriously doubt that's the case.

 

[Red Clover]

Just rereading some posts to see what I have missed. What is DIMR? Ah Dead Indian etc just realised. Gee I haven't woken up properly today.

If inlaws family owned a lot of property, why would Dave's relative need money from him? I don't get it really.

David told me that this relative had always badgered their mother for money. Their mother was gone, David hadn't cashed the checks and this relative was asking Dave for money. He told me that he was expecting them to just show up. It's pretty straightforward.

I mentioned in laws owning property in the area for generations (multiple properties owned by multiple individuals from the same family) for context, not because it had any bearing on this relative needing or asking Dave for money for whatever reason.

Sorry for all the questions but I will not be around for some time today and needed to get them in early today LOL.

So when Dave's relative contacted Troy's mum, it was by phone presumably?

Initially it was by email, I believe I explained in the original timeline post how first my mom emailed LW after getting her email from JCSO and helped LW set up a public email and a MySpace account to help her with finding information about Troy's death.

So she knew where Troy's mum lived and had her contact details.

I don't know what Dave's relative knew or knows about where LW lives. I know they contacted LW that second week of September based on what LW has told me.

Why would Troy need to be lured to Hyatt Lake to be seen with Dave for evidence? Evidence of what? That they knew each other? Wasnt Dave often seen there anyway, working and leisure?

IF the person that may have done this was also Dave's relative AND the person that made this firewood delivery offer, they MAY HAVE tried to set Troy up to come up the mountain, lured him, either on the ruse of a job or something similar.

I don't think Troy was planning to go with the firewood delivery person though, as their mom was sending him $$ to get out of town.

It's been my speculation that could have been the motive for murdering Troy in his campsite.

Maybe Troy wasn't going along with their plans. This person needed someone to blame if something happened to Dave, as I believe this person had traveled a long distance to confront him.

This is the theory I have developed. ️

It's okay if you or others have other ideas, that's what we're here for

Also, if Troy had no vehicle, how would he get from the Pilot Centre to Hyatt Lake to meet Dave after 6pm unless Dave picked him up from there?

I have no idea, Troy was last seen in Central Point around 6:00 pm on Monday Sept 1st. This doesn't make sense to me, sorry

Sorry for all the questions but this is the only way we will make any sense of it. At present there is no solid connection, yet LE have said they are linked. So how are they linked and LE won't say - why is that?

Your guess is as good as mine

Is there CCTV at Hyatt Lake where Dave and Troy were allegedly together?

I have no idea, there used to be a weather cam in the parking lot but I haven't been able to catch it working.

Honestly I don't think they were seen there together, I think that's one of many red herrings but it's possible I suppose.

The zone has been flooded with nonsense for so long it's hard to pick out the bits of truth.

That would be huge. And it would have to be after that 6pm CCTV at the Pilot centre, presumably, if so.

 

[Red Clover]

I don't get a lot of this stuff either. I can only think like any long ongoing solved case, there's a lot of suggestion and speculation that's leaked in over the years.

Yes

I honestly see no connection between Dave and Troy and I really don't see a lot of similarity in the crimes.

Okay

In the very beginning I thought we had two men killed and two fires like on the same day in a low crime area or something but it turns out that isn't the case at all.

I find it odd that the relative would want Dave's money as well and it would seem to me that that person and spouse was likely better off than Dave.

Dave told me she asked him for part of his inheritance and when he told her no he was still expecting her to just show up to confront him and get her way- she needed or wanted the money. It's fairly straightforward.

However, people can be odd, maybe that person just wanted all of mom's money.

Exactly

Also some people are property rich but have no actual cash but I get what you mean, they could sell property or finance one if money was needed.

Why would they still be asking for money?

Is the relative still married?

Yes

I guess also just because inlaws own property it does't mean they do or share in it in any way.

Exactly

As to Troy and David being seen together, to me that sounds unlikely and likely a totally unfounded rumor.

I also think it's unlikely they were actually seen together

I'm thinking they aren't connected, these crimes, even though several fires is unusual, so many things are different.

I wonder if the perp in Troy's on all the speculation of a connection after Dave's murder and those two fires, went back to start a fire at Troy's camping area to throw LE off and make them SEEM more connected and throw them off the real perp's trail...

anything is possible

I don't know. I'm just not seeing any connection at all or reason to even think there is one.

David was lit on fire, they suspect tied up (not sure how they'd know that) and a lot more done there and time taken. With Troy it is like someone was walking by or knew where he was and walked up, shot him in his sleep and walked on doing nothing more. I'm sure the others camping nearby heard the gunshot though no? This could well have been done by someone camping nearby imo as well.

We just don't know

A question I have is--is this his first night of sleeping/staying there?

Not that I am aware of

Had he been with the friends that were having issues because of his presence up until that day?

No, he had left at least a few days beforehand

It's kind of difficult in that remarks about Troy here don't end up in the Troy thread yet they need their separate threads.

Yes, you could post questions about Troy on Troy's thread. His mom will be more likely to see the comments about her son's case there.

I honestly am not seeing nor sensing a real connection.

I don't even really trust LE saying there is one.

I think that may be to throw both perps off. Each would know they didn't do the other murder and so it would leave them assured LE was not on the right path? Or alternatively it would worry each that they would be blamed for another they did not commit... I do NOT know...

What I DO know is I think it time the authorities are called out and some answers demanded, are the families doing so? Is anyone? What are they doing on these cases, ANYTHING?

I don't know what the families have asked for but I emailed the DA last week.

Lots of new forensic avenues these days. Cell phone data is likely out.

I have asked that new technology be considered

Dave was apparently tech phobic and not sure if Troy carried one.

Troy had a phone, that's how he communicated with his mom.

It would seem like not as it was said he used the phones at the truck stop but then I can't figure out how his mom tried calling him if he didn't have one so did he?

He would sit inside the Pilot and speak with his mom or grandma or whoever (it's 99-100 degrees F in late summer here)

His mom tried calling him starting around 6:00 pacific time on September 2 2008 and continued calling until she was contacted by JCSO. At some point LW called his friend GG and asked if he knew anything, and from news reports that GG called the Sheriff's Office to see if the body found on the Bear Creek Greenway was Troy. It was.
LE called LW from the information found in Troy's phone- the missed calls.

DNA is probably out in both cases EXCEPT for the stuff outdoors that was messed with in Dave's...

I'd also like to know more about Troy. Ever married? Kids? Had he been wandering most of his life like this? Criminal history if any. Any drug or alcohol problems? Was he ever settled down anywhere? All sorts of things.

Troy's mom may be able to answer when and if she comes onto the thread

With Dave too. Not to judge the victims or anything but for a full picture to understand what their life was like and who may have a motive and so on.

I have shared quite abit

Did Dave pay child support after his divorce and up to his death? It sounds as if there was one minor child yet at that time. Did he have any other debt, how was his credit? That may sound like dumb questions that don't relate but I guess I wonder why he didn't buy his own place, cash his mom's checks (if he had judgments or back support or collections after him could be a reason is my thinking here...)

I don't know the answer to these questions

For some reason, I am starting to picture him as someone who did all on a cash basis but then I have to wonder if the resort paid him in cash which seems unlikely but who knows...

He is starting to sound to me like a bit of a judgmental and hot tempered guy. Not necessarily bad meaning, maybe well meant in what he felt to be right or wrong but in a number of assaults or domestics or whatever around his divorce, beating up a sex offender, walking off the job (that one is a bit different), those things are notable and not all well meant responses.

And then Red Clover said wasn't it the last winter that was particularly brutal for him living there and he'd lost a ton of weight and so on? That's all easy to understand and may mean nothing, I've lived severe winters where you can' get out for days repeatedly or weeks even and if you do it takes a LOT. So I understand it. However, that also could mean weight gain lol being stuck, I guess I mean serious weight loss and looking haggard may not be due to just that.

Just kind of thinking as I type... Talking out loud. I don't know....

I feel like Troy's death could have been entirely random. It could have been someone just entirely ticked he was there or sleeping there for all we know or felt he was in their spot or too near.

I keep asking some questions as I don't think we know enough about the two victims for one thing, Troy especially and I almost feel like something is missing in both cases like an elephant in the room. You know it is there but don't know what it is.

Was either murder a hate crime, drug related, money related, fraud/theft related, spurned lover related, angry husband related, etc., etc., etc.?

We don't know

And with that I'm done. A bit frustrated with it at the moment and I'll just repeat I think after so long, LE needs to just change it up. After this long, if i were a family member and justice seemed this unlikely, I'd want them to release what they have, names and all and case file. Has anyone tried FOIA requests in this one (these cases)?

Yes, I believe family members have

If they refuse citing an ongoing investigation I'd have to laugh and then they should need to give evidence of how active they are on it and what new efforts they are making and that new info or evidence has been collected and i seriously doubt that's the case.

️

 

[GrandmaBear]

David told me that this relative had always badgered their mother for money. Their mother was gone, David hadn't cashed the checks and this relative was asking Dave for money. He told me that he was expecting them to just show up. It's pretty straightforward.

I mentioned in laws owning property in the area for generations (multiple properties owned by multiple individuals from the same family) for context, not because it had any bearing on this relative needing or asking Dave for money for whatever reason.


Initially it was by email, I believe I explained in the original timeline post how first my mom emailed LW after getting her email from JCSO and helped LW set up a public email and a MySpace account to help her with finding information about Troy's death.


I don't know what Dave's relative knew or knows about where LW lives. I know they contacted LW that second week of September based on what LW has told me.


IF the person that may have done this was also Dave's relative AND the person that made this firewood delivery offer, they MAY HAVE tried to set Troy up to come up the mountain, lured him, either on the ruse of a job or something similar.

I don't think Troy was planning to go with the firewood delivery person though, as their mom was sending him $$ to get out of town.

It's been my speculation that could have been the motive for murdering Troy in his campsite.

Maybe Troy wasn't going along with their plans. This person needed someone to blame if something happened to Dave, as I believe this person had traveled a long distance to confront him.

This is the theory I have developed. ️

It's okay if you or others have other ideas, that's what we're here for

I have no idea, Troy was last seen in Central Point around 6:00 pm on Monday Sept 1st. This doesn't make sense to me, sorry

Your guess is as good as mine


I have no idea, there used to be a weather cam in the parking lot but I haven't been able to catch it working.

Honestly I don't think they were seen there together, I think that's one of many red herrings but it's possible I suppose.

The zone has been flooded with nonsense for so long it's hard to pick out the bits of truth.

I find the amount of plottingi ti takes for the relative to be the one pretty far fetched, sorry to say. A similar thing crossed my mind that the firewood job person killed Troy when he refused the job and said his mom was sending him money (if he did refuse and/or say that) but I dismissed it and I never went so far as tot thinking it was the relative setting such up. You said yourself the firewood thing was not something Dave did to speak of as far as delivering or selling to others so I really don't get this thought.

When too many things need excuses or explanations that's when they fall apart for me. I don't know if you realize it but that's what the relative takes. Motive for one. Driving in the dark, knowing back roads and local roads. Encountering Troy in a totally different area. Setting him up. Killing him. Going back to do another fire far later. It's just really far fetched imo and I just touched on a couple of the things. Pulling of welding tanks and strewing things around. Bringing an accelerant or using one. Tying him up. Finding Troy and killing him point blank. Driving from another state. Just all of it.

Did the relative kill their mom too to get money? It's a long stretch from a kid who is always asking for money to someone who kills their own parents or siblings and in this case nets no money from it. Apparently the relative has enough money to travel at the drop of a hat though, twice at least for some days.

So apparently the fact the inlaws had money or property didn't mean this couple did. Hard to tell if the relative needed money or just wanted money. What did either do for a living? Relative or spouse? Kids?

I have to tell you other than Dave said to you the person asked for his money from the mother and his saying he expected the relative to show up, I don't see a single reason in this case the relative would even come onto anyone's radar including LE's.

I have a relative who has constantly gotten money out of my mother for years on end. And the RARE time my mother put her foot down, she'd go to some other relative. I know the type. And if my mom said no, that relative yes was likely to show up on her doorstep. Bringing a gift most likely or lunch or some such... In broad daylight. And even if told no then might then turn it to somewhat confronational or a tantrum and storming out. But do I think that relative would show up in the middle of the night and kill, torture, pour accelerant on and burn the home down??? NO. NOT for a minute. Does the same relative have some issues and in a case like this would that relative be in the thick of it and saying this and that and what it could be and even maybe be somewhat inappropriate? Yes. This is all this sounds like to me. I don't see any basis for it quite honestly.

There's what Dave said to you and some actions and comments that seem to be some smoke if one wants to take it that way but there is not a single thing or reason really pointing to this relative as far as I can see.

Of course nothing points strongly enough to anyone I guess since LE shares nothing but I truly think the relative thought is the least likely and probably no real reason to even have it on radar.

I'm not trying to diss it or you or argue or anything, I'm just not seeing it or how far you can make it work with adding in them setting up Troy. I honestly think that's pretty out there.

 

[Red Clover]

I find the amount of plottingi ti takes for the relative to be the one pretty far fetched, sorry to say. A similar thing crossed my mind that the firewood job person killed Troy when he refused the job and said his mom was sending him money (if he did refuse and/or say that) but I dismissed it and I never went so far as tot thinking it was the relative setting such up. You said yourself the firewood thing was not something Dave did to speak of as far as delivering or selling to others so I really don't get this thought.

When too many things need excuses or explanations that's when they fall apart for me. I don't know if you realize it but that's what the relative takes. Motive for one. Driving in the dark, knowing back roads and local roads. Encountering Troy in a totally different area. Setting him up. Killing him. Going back to do another fire far later. It's just really far fetched imo and I just touched on a couple of the things. Pulling of welding tanks and strewing things around. Bringing an accelerant or using one. Tying him up. Finding Troy and killing him point blank. Driving from another state. Just all of it.

Did the relative kill their mom too to get money? It's a long stretch from a kid who is always asking for money to someone who kills their own parents or siblings and in this case nets no money from it. Apparently the relative has enough money to travel at the drop of a hat though, twice at least for some days.

So apparently the fact the inlaws had money or property didn't mean this couple did. Hard to tell if the relative needed money or just wanted money. What did either do for a living? Relative or spouse? Kids?

I have to tell you other than Dave said to you the person asked for his money from the mother and his saying he expected the relative to show up, I don't see a single reason in this case the relative would even come onto anyone's radar including LE's.

I have a relative who has constantly gotten money out of my mother for years on end. And the RARE time my mother put her foot down, she'd go to some other relative. I know the type. And if my mom said no, that relative yes was likely to show up on her doorstep. Bringing a gift most likely or lunch or some such... In broad daylight. And even if told no then might then turn it to somewhat confronational or a tantrum and storming out. But do I think that relative would show up in the middle of the night and kill, torture, pour accelerant on and burn the home down??? NO. NOT for a minute. Does the same relative have some issues and in a case like this would that relative be in the thick of it and saying this and that and what it could be and even maybe be somewhat inappropriate? Yes. This is all this sounds like to me. I don't see any basis for it quite honestly.

There's what Dave said to you and some actions and comments that seem to be some smoke if one wants to take it that way but there is not a single thing or reason really pointing to this relative as far as I can see.

Of course nothing points strongly enough to anyone I guess since LE shares nothing but I truly think the relative thought is the least likely and probably no real reason to even have it on radar.

I'm not trying to diss it or you or argue or anything, I'm just not seeing it or how far you can make it work with adding in them setting up Troy. I honestly think that's pretty out there.

Thanks for sharing your detailed opinions

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yes

Okay



Dave told me she asked him for part of his inheritance and when he told her no he was still expecting her to just show up to confront him and get her way- she needed or wanted the money. It's fairly straightforward.

Exactly

Why would they still be asking for money?

Yes

Exactly

I also think it's unlikely they were actually seen together



anything is possible



We just don't know

Not that I am aware of

No, he had left at least a few days beforehand

Yes, you could post questions about Troy on Troy's thread. His mom will be more likely to see the comments about her son's case there.







I don't know what the families have asked for but I emailed the DA last week.

I have asked that new technology be considered

Troy had a phone, that's how he communicated with his mom.

He would sit inside the Pilot and speak with his mom or grandma or whoever (it's 99-100 degrees F in late summer here)

His mom tried calling him starting around 6:00 pacific time on September 2 2008 and continued calling until she was contacted by JCSO. At some point LW called his friend GG and asked if he knew anything, and from news reports that GG called the Sheriff's Office to see if the body found on the Bear Creek Greenway was Troy. It was.
LE called LW from the information found in Troy's phone- the missed calls.



Troy's mom may be able to answer when and if she comes onto the thread

I have shared quite abit

I don't know the answer to these questions









We don't know

Yes, I believe family members have

️

So the relative wanted only "part" of Dave's inheritance? That makes it sound as if it was for a particular reason. Trying to buy something and not enough funds or money down. Or needing to pay something off and not quite enough. Or did they feel he got more than his share or something? Or did they feel they were owed for something they handled or so on upon mom's death or before?

Who was the executor/personal representative of the estate?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Thanks for sharing your detailed opinions

Yeah, I"m forming some, not that I have any clue who did it but I am finding some more feasible than others lol.

Sorry if you're finding that I'm not shy about sharing them lol.

Active interest in a case though regardless is a good thing imo to keep it in the news or public eye or any interest at all, and I'm never meaning anything in a hateful way, I will though respectfully if sometimes a bit strongly disagree at times in a case.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Dave could have just told the relative the money was spent and gone.

That's my answer to family or friends who would ask is sorry, I don't have it. In my case it's true though. It kind of stops them in their tracks. Funny he or she assumed or knew Dave still had it.

Or had they been in other conversations and more to it and discussions than you maybe know of.

Just a random thought that popped into my head.

 

[Kimster]

Dave could have just told the relative the money was spent and gone.

That's my answer to family or friends who would ask is sorry, I don't have it. In my case it's true though. It kind of stops them in their tracks. Funny he or she assumed or knew Dave still had it.

With my dad’s estate, all the heirs got a report stating how and when the estate checks were being distributed. So I always knew when anyone else got a check. I don’t know if it always works that way though? My dad‘s estate was managed in California and not Oregon.

 

[GrandmaBear]

With my dad’s estate, all the heirs got a report stating how and when the estate checks were being distributed. So I always knew when anyone else got a check. I don’t know if it always works that way though? My dad‘s estate was managed in California and not Oregon.

When you get them sure but when you cash them and if you spent them?

They hadn't even sold her house yet from what i understood so my guess is they are retirement or life insurance proceeds. With my brother I had two checks, one was retirement, can't recall the other, may life insurance, and that was long before his home sold, because they were POD (pay on death, smart to do, no probate). And two sisters were his executors/personal representatives. I didn't cash those checks for months and months but they had no way of knowing that even though they were handling the estate. No one else could know that either. Of course they'd know when distributed as they got theirs too.

I guess what I mean is Dave almost had to have told the relative he still had mom's money and it just makes me think there was more discussion than known of between them. I don't know that that means anything but one thing it does seem to indicate is he willingly let him or her know he had the funds. And that just says to me other than his hearsay remark to someone else (no offense intended but that's what it is), there may be more to this or maybe he willingly discussed a possibility of going in on something together for a purchase (a property?) or more to it and then in the end he refused maybe. Hard to say but just like @Red Clover apparently knew he hadn't cashed the checks as she says he told her that, the relative was apparently told by him he had it as well. Why, if he didn't want someone claimed to always be looking for money to be asking him for it? It doesn't add up to me. I think the entire context of conversations they had isn't known. He and the relative I mean.

 

[Inspector Clues Oh]

Just a thought, but if the cabin was owned by a Lewis, could the killer/arsonist have hit all places "Lewis" or that he maybe thought was owned by a Lewis? Same last name may be coincidence but a bit odd.

I'd definitely wonder about who reported it at that time of night and if it was the perp. May well have been just a concerned passerby but I'd hope they questioned the person in depth. Cell phones were common enough but you are saying service wasn't great or nonexistent?

I think these two fires are likely related, I am not as sure about the one in the other case though.

I'm way behind here already lol. Doesn't take long since I get no time.

Skimmed new posts.

Yeah, we refer to WS as JT. It's deserved imo. Not for most decent members but definitely for leadership and her minions.

As far as I know, he didn’t own the cabin. Dave lived there as a caretaker.

 

[Tresir]

So the relative wanted only "part" of Dave's inheritance? That makes it sound as if it was for a particular reason. Trying to buy something and not enough funds or money down. Or needing to pay something off and not quite enough. Or did they feel he got more than his share or something? Or did they feel they were owed for something they handled or so on upon mom's death or before?

Who was the executor/personal representative of the estate?

The only thing I can think of is that if the land Dave lived on was coveted and if money was needed to buy it. Finally it was putchased, albeit in 2022, fourteen years later. RC has said that the inlaws owned other property in DIMR so perhaps @Red Clover can tell us what other property they owned. Maybe this bit that Dave lived on was a ransom strip or something for other land?

I don't see it as a motive for murder though. Simply because the land would cost her more to buy without Dave living there. And why involve Troy and kill him first? LE said the deaths are linked and I don't see the connection ATM.

Unless the land Troy camped on was coveted too.

 

[Tresir]

With my dad’s estate, all the heirs got a report stating how and when the estate checks were being distributed. So I always knew when anyone else got a check. I don’t know if it always works that way though? My dad‘s estate was managed in California and not Oregon.

It was similar with me and my brothers and sisters. Everyone gets a copy of the will and probate. It is possible to change a will after the fact but you need all the beneficiaries to agree. We did it because my two brothers would rather have some farmland that was in a trust and us girls wanted the cash from the shares and other property in the estate. We still ended up with similar amounts only we had cash and they had property. This was over 20 years ago now though.

 

[Tresir]

As far as I know, he didn’t own the cabin. Dave lived there as a caretaker.

Welcome, Inspector C !

 

[GrandmaBear]

As far as I know, he didn’t own the cabin. Dave lived there as a caretaker.

I meant the other cabin that was burned which was owned by a Lewis. Thank you though.