DAVID "DAVE" EDWIN LEWIS: Murder & arson 13 miles east of Ashland, OR - 4 September 2008

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David "Dave" Lewis was a 46 year old father of three. A jack of all trades and good man in any camp, Dave was well known and well respected in his mountain community where he lived on the summit of Dead Indian Memorial Road, 13 miles east of Ashland, Jackson County, Oregon for more than 20 years.

David was found dead after a fire at his rural cabin at 12801 Dead Indian Memorial Road. He had been murdered, shot & the cabin set fire.

David's remains were identified by DNA. There was also ANOTHER FIRE near Dave's cabin that same night, at a vacant vacation cabin at 18196 Dead Indian Memorial Road, about 5-6 miles away.

Edited to add media link: Dave Lewis was found murdered in his rural cabin east of Ashland, Oregon in 2008. His murder remains UNSOLVED!
 

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I agree, however I am not yet convinced that the cabins were not burned down for gain at the end of the day. And we can see they both sold in 2021 and 2022.

Also, regarding Troy, I am going to look into the land that he was camping on and find out what is there now. If anyone has already done that, please post anything you found out on his thread TIA.
Well in Troy's case, there'd be no gain for him as he didn't own it and is dead so you'd have to the the person who wanted the gain which would have to be the owner did it and also had no problem killing him and lighting him afire to gain on the loss of the cabin. I'm not sure I buy that or can believe that.

The other cabin though, there is the slight possibility it was not the same arsonist. It seems unlikely though, same time of middle of the night past midnight hours, just five miles or so away and both arson...

Anything's possible though. Although I draw the line at it being Odinists. Lol, couldn't help it, jk.
 
@GrandmaBear said:
If they refuse citing an ongoing investigation I'd have to laugh and then they should need to give evidence of how active they are on it and what new efforts they are making and that new info or evidence has been collected and i seriously doubt that's the case.

I agree, and my understanding is that the cold case link on the JCSO website is no longer there. So how active can it be?
Why would that be? The link being taken down I mean? I doubt it's because they solved it. They owe an explanation for that imo and it's more than time that they do something new or speak up and rock the boat with some info or something.
 
Based on my reading the information posted, I think the firewood and Pilot theories are what’s far fetched. Troy’s mother, LW, said that he turned down the firewood job because she was wiring him $100 for a bus ticket. The Pilot is the Greyhound stop, by the way. As for the Pilot theory, there is absolutely no evidence that Dave knew Troy, or had interaction with him. That idea came from the VI on WS. It doesn’t appear that LE saw this as credible. One of the hardest things here is the fire destroyed potential evidence at Dave’s cabin, and LE being so tight lipped about the investigation. Might be helpful for some fresh eyes to look at things.
The firewood/Pilot one crossed my mind and it came from firewood remarks in articles, etc. on each guy. It was a natural path to go wonder on it and question it. I never though favored it and still don't but we don't/didn't have info from LW, we are new to this, at least I know I am. The idea for me came from no VI it came from firewood remarks and then the thought of whether Dave would ever go to the Pilot and so on which I then asked and was told no. I don't favor it, I favor a local/s on the mountain in Dave's area. However, when you say it appears LE did not see it as credible, not sure I'd assume that. LE says nothing and LE says there is "some" link here in the two cases, no?

Again I don't think it likely but it isn't the only theory I don't consider likely and some less so. I'll also say this, I stay within two blocks of where I live for just about everything always. i have everything i need near me. The mall, gas, groceries, Walmart, Aldi, a pet store, a whole foods kind of store, restaurants, a liquor store, home improvement store, you name it. Does that mean I never at any time during the year travel out of my area or even out of my city and stop somewhere else? Visit a friend or sibling? Take a rare road trip or for a myriad of reasons? No it doesn't. Maybe Dave was glued to the Hyatt and his home but so am I. And I have a helluva lot more near me than he does. So anyhow, i don't favor the idea but no one even that knew him could possibly know what he did every moment and day of his life or every personal thought, detail or even reason he may have had to do something or go elsewhere.

Again I don't favor that theory but I did consider it.

I have excluded no theories but some are going somewhat to the sideline for me right now.

I agree with fresh eyes. I'm new and not the freshest, I'm old lol but I think you mean with LE and investigators and i wholeheartedly agree.
 
Based on my reading the information posted, I think the firewood and Pilot theories are what’s far fetched. Troy’s mother, LW, said that he turned down the firewood job because she was wiring him $100 for a bus ticket. The Pilot is the Greyhound stop, by the way. As for the Pilot theory, there is absolutely no evidence that Dave knew Troy, or had interaction with him. That idea came from the VI on WS. It doesn’t appear that LE saw this as credible. One of the hardest things here is the fire destroyed potential evidence at Dave’s cabin, and LE being so tight lipped about the investigation. Might be helpful for some fresh eyes to look at things.
So the Pilot is the Greyhound stop. Where would he have went to pick up the wired money? This was 2008 did she send it Western Union? When it is referred to as wired, that's what I picture. While there was definitely internet in 2008 and I think even Paypal was a thing, that is isn't wiring and that would go directly to Troy but I doubt he had that kind of thing or a bank card tied to it or credit card, etc. I'm guessing he would have had to go to a town or city of some size? Ashland? Or did the Pilot do Western Union too? Just wondering.

It seems to me this isn't new to you so I'm guessing you came from JT too?

Again, welcome! It's way nicer here in my nonbiased opinion lol.
 

Not any more it isn't - the city purchased it. I posted this on Troy's thread too. They had trouble with more fires in recent years.
Well I don't know about this nonprofit part, I am going to have to get more on that later but city owned land and parks ARE public property generally. Same with county and state and federal. It of course doesn't mean there can't be rules or uses but such is public land or property generally. We all finance these entities, the public does. One would never know it these days but they are our employees and our governments who WE employ and pay with our tax dollars.
 
I'm not ruling any theory out yet. The fact they were both shot and arson was involved, albeit at a later date with Troy's camp area, within days of each other links them. LE says there is a link too but won't reveal it for fear of jeopardizing the investigation. LOL. We are fresh eyes looking at it but I think you mean LE right? I agree they need to look at both cases again.
I too have ruled out nothing but my percentages of possiblities have some low ones and then some much higher ones after getting clearer pictures and more facts or answers at least.

I think she did mean LE but yeah, we are fresh eyes too lol.

They do need to step up and open these up and get them active with fresh eyes if they aren't going anywhere or having much done. I agree.
 
We are only concerned with the area he was camping, near the Pilot Center not the whole Greenway though. That 50 acres area has been bought by the city and is not publically owned any more. I am not sure the rest is publically owned anyway. It is a 501 approved organisation according to their website and accepts donations that donors can claim tax relief for. So it is owned by private companies right?
I am lost here. That's what publicly owned IS basically. City sidewalk for instance is ours to walk on. City parks are ours to use. City bike trails are ours to ride on. City dog parks are ours to take dogs to. What was it before, county land? Still ours. I don't know how the UK is but I am not sure what you think publicly owned means. That the entire public actually has deeded ownership? Maybe Oregon is different, Lord knows some things are as I've learned from Kimster but I doubt it on this. It's just like our national parks like Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc., etc. they are OUR parks. County land and state land can be hunted on in states for instance, that's public land. State parks can be camped in by the public because they are public state parks

You say it was public and is now owned by the City or part of it is. Well who is it that owned it prior? Must have been some other entity that meant t was publicly owned and again that would be a city, county, state government. That is what makes such public land. In the U.S.
 
Yes, maybe you can but that doesn't mean it is publically owned.

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I stay to what I said about public land but will say I don't trust and like the whole nonprofit thing that goes on these days and there are various types and not all are up to good but no idea here.

Such areas do have to be maintained and all and that costs money so my guess would be this is how they do this, or improve for that matter. No time to read the links.

Regardless iti s public land unless ANY of it is privately owned which doesn't seem to be the case and never was the case.
 
A 501c3 is a non profit organization which is indeed indicated in the first link I shared.
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Are you trying to make a case that because the City of Central Point bought some acres to make into a public park that someone benefited (private pension companies??) enough to have killed Troy 15.5 years ago? 💰

I am telling you that the Bear Creek Greenway is a public space, a bikepath that stretches over 18 miles between Ashland & Central Point.

It may be managed and maintained by a 501c3 non profit foundation but that doesn't mean anyone is making money. The organization exists to maintain public access to this greenway. It started when I was a kid. ✌️
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Of course it is publicly owned if "owned' by city, county, state.
 
I did, too, and I wondered the same thing, I mean, was there wrong about the firewood delivery job?
Exactly. It's worth questioning, that's for sure. He seemed to have a lack of work and funds or so it sounded and he wanted to get back to an area where he had better work opportunities or so we are to believe but maybe something else was wrong and he wanted out of there quicker or something bothered him about the job which would have given him some funds. I mean why not take it AND pick up funds from mom before or after the firewood delivery and then head out, it would be some extra dough either way.

I don't know that I think Dave and Troy met or it connects that way but just Troy's case alone I have to wonder if something else had him feeling he needed to just get out. Another question which may not have an answer, I don't know, is did his mom wire him money easily and for anything? Or was this not the norm? I mean no offense of course to his mom, I am just trying to figure out if something else was wrong Troy was concerned about for the need to turn down a job and have money wired to leave sooner..

Again no offense to mom but apparently he didn't stay in motel rooms and so what I mean is he was not rolling in money that mom provided. Did he normally ever motel it even at the other areas and when he made more or better money than he was finding here? I just think there's more in Troy's case that we don't know. Not necessarily anything bad about him, just something. that might be about him and trouble he was fleeing OR just something that we don't know as far as trouble or danger that had been directed towards him.

I'm not convinced either the cases are connected in any solid way if at all.

I see nothing harder about delivering a load of firewood than unloading a semi. And I don't think we are talking about logs, we are talking about cut firewood. Most likely, but I could be wrong.

I'd like to know more about Troy as I've mentioned before. Ever married? Any kids? Job history prior? Any trouble with the law or charges or convictions? Again, not to judge it but to understand what may have been reasons, habits, etc. or who he may have known or gravitated towards. Any drug use for instance? Anything where he may have dealt with some dangerous or sketchy types and so on. Avoiding anything or running from anything in life?

Dave stayed put but Troy would seem to be more of a drifter with no port in a storm.
 
A 1/2 days work is barely enough money to get you a bus ticket. What is the problem with LW offering to wire him some money? They spoke every day.
There's nothing wrong with that but I wonder myself if it is the norm. No one is questioning or saying there is any problem with LW as far as I can see. I have questions about the same.

I also don't see how you can know how much he was offered, that it is 1/2 day's work, how much wood was wanted, how far it had to go, what all he had to do, what size firewood one is talking, cut up pieces and a pick up truck load or bigger to be split and cut up, etc. I know the wood thing well, lived it my whole life. Why wouldn't someone who apparently had no jobs and money to leave town take any work as well as pick up his mom's wired money? It doesn't make much sense that he turned down work when he had none.

I really don't lean towards the Dave and Troy thing with firewood but I do find the fact he had a chance at some funds and he didn't accept it apparently odd, and feel there must have been some reason. Maybe he just didn't want to work that day and it was as simple as that. Maybe it was something more and it was more than that.

Wrong thread for Troy but it is the active one and so I guess anyone who comes that knew the cases as you do, would figure to check the other thread and anyone knew should realize it too when seeing them talked about and possibly linked.

Maybe you have all details on the firewood job because Troy gave mom every little detail, I don't know. Like how much pay, 1/2 day and all you claim. If not, then you can't know it.

I'll tell you when broke as he seemed to be because he couldn't get his own bus ticket, anyone motivated and in need of funds would have not turned down a job when there were few. I'm sorry but if there wasn't something about the job or staying to do it that concerned him, then what's his real reason and what was really up with him?

Again that is not at all to diss him, but there's something missing.

Finally you said a 1/2 day's work is barely enough money to get a bus ticket so it would seem it is enough... Why not then go with some money in your pocket to live on when you get there as well as having mom pay for the bus ticket. It isn't like he went and got the funds that day and got the ticket and got out of town. For that matter WHEN was this job to be? And again you seem to know it would be 1/2 day and what the pay would be.
 
A 501c is classed as a private organization's. You will be asked to vote to see if you want your local public taxes used to maintain it. I have posted a link on Troy's thread and will post the link about private classification too. The point is that all 3 of these murder/arsons occurred on land that has since been sold. That is what is important about this imo.
I could sidetrack into quite a talk about nonprofits and what many of them really are these days and how clueless most of us are/were. And private nonprofits don't get me started. So I'm going to avoid looking at the nonprofit part or engage in it, believe me you don't want me to.

PRIVATE nonprofit. Hmmm.

Aside from that, it is interesting all of these crimes/murders/fires occurred on land since sold. It has been 15+ years though but I do get what you mean, I'm sure many things no owner has ever sold but all of these have been. There's really no immediate gain though for anyone who would have committed these acts. I guess they may have thought there would be but that's a long time and quite a reason to commit murders without some kind of sure bet... I don't know.

The part that many hate the homeless and don't like them being in "their" public areas, etc. though is something I've thought of a lot. I don't dismiss that Troy's death could be due to just some random hater that saw him camped there or saw him going to camp there even or encountered him earlier and didn't like him or some such. There are so many possibilities in is imo. I mean what about truck stop employees even...

We have a lot of info on the type of person Dave was and although I think he may have been judgmental and more, I do think he was probably a good person and friend, etc. Troy perhaps too but we know very little about his life or ways or habits, etc. For instance, we know Dave was married, had kids, was divorced, had lived at this cabin for 20 something plus years. We know none of these things about Troy, not a one. Ever married? Any kids? What is his story the last 20 plus something years?
 
I don't think you understand how a 501c3 works. 🤷‍♀️
You don't want to get me started on PRIVATE non profits. It would do you good to know more about them though. Deep diving.

I am going to stay away from it though because I don't see a single way it really relates to Troy's murder that long ago. Killing many homeless might or if they stopped any from camping there in these last 15 years or others have been murdered? Have they and is that the case? If so, then I'd say it needs a look. If not then I don't think it relates.

So again, I'm going to stay out of the nonprofit thing and again, no one wants me going there. Imo private nonprofits for the most part and even in all parts should be illegal imo. But then our govt. allows such because who is it they benefit and yes some average people have learned how to play the game too with them... Most people don't have a clue about them.
 
It was LABOR DAY, noone works on Labor Day unless you have to. It's a vacation weekend for us here in the states. Certainly noone is delivering firewood, it's a picnic barbecue kind of day, the last hurrah of summer before kids go back to school.

Was Troy supposed to get his work clothes on after talking with his mom and head out? He left the truck stop at 6:00, so a 1/2 days work if he was picked up right then takes you to at least 10 pm. Noone wants firewood delivered at night on a holiday. This line of questioning is not making sense to me.

Again, I live here, I am very aware of how much hatred is directed at the unhoused in our area. There's a US Supreme Court case right now that involves the City of Grants Pass.
Oh come on. That is not true that no one works on Labor Day for starters. I did. This year. I didn't picnic or BBQ. And you're talking about a homeless man who can't get work. Labor Day is a big nothing day for many people. It's not Christmas. It isn't even Memorial Day with such meaning to it. @Tresir may be in the UK but don't push a bunch of untrue stuff at her.

No offense, I can tell you and she'd agree that I and @Tresir have butted heads and don't always have the same opinion. @Regina has been here too and her and I butt heads once in awhile and for sure don't always have the same opinion but as you see we are all here discussing together.

Maybe it is unlikely wood delivered at night on a holiday but I can tell you flat out it has never been clear to me when this job was to be and I doubt it was to @Tresir either and do you even know? I don't know either when he was to pick up mom's wired money, where or how he was to get there? When it came in, was it that night and he could have gotten iit then? Did he plan to the next day? When and how? I seem to recall mom was immediately worried as he hadn't picked it up and hadn't answered. Also what bus would he have taken and what day and what time because he did not pick up mom's money that night that's clear. Sooo there is much unclear and I can see easily why Tresir is thinking as she is, I could as well as we know NONE of these things.

Now maybe all the years of JT thread and talking with his mom and seeing tons of others things you know when the job was, what the job would pay, when he was going to pick up mom's money, when it came in, where he had to get it and how he was going to get there, etc. but I somehow DOUBT it. Because I doubt his mom knew when he was going to pick it up necessarily or every detail about the firewood job.

Tell me this, if the firewood job would as you said just barely cover the bus ticket, then there was no need to send money UNLESS he had SOME reason for not wanting to the do the job or some need to get out of town sooner. But then he didn't and he was murdered. And I think that's significant with its timing in his case. He simply didn't manage to go soon enough. It sure looks like that could be the case. So who is it and what was it he was worried about?

By the way I'll likely work next Labor Day too. And I'm sure people who need money would too, like Troy. No offense but are you living in the 50s where all have picnics, family get togethers and BBQs and no one has to work and every service industry is open and it's on a holiday that has no real significance to most? Many kids are back in school prior to Labor Day. Always been that way in my state.

Even those that camp are putting up their camper, pulling up their deck from their permanent summer spot and closing them up. MANY people are working at something on Labor Day or they're just doing nothing at home as it is the END of the summer season and the last day IF kids are out of school yet before next day IS SCHOOL so they're packing backpacks, making lunches, fiilling out tons of forms, etc., etc. The Monday, the actual day? That's when most have to travel home and are looking at real life about to intrude. Fall is coming, we need firewood, it is back to school and work, etc. Picnic? Lol. I guess there may be a few who do it on the Monday. But why? LOL.

And I'm sorry but Troy isn't living the 9 to 5 family picnic life nor are any truckers who are at the Pilot. Nor anyone looking to hire someone to deliver firewood. Think about it, someone ordered some, someone wanted someone to deliver it put to him on that weekend.

None of this is really worth time other than I think it really wrong and unfair you claim that's how it is in the U.S. and that's what we all do on Labor Day and said such to Tresir. It is sooo false. Did you have a big picnic with extended family or a BBQ? Maybe you did. If so good for you. In my family it would have been in my parent's generation and even then it would never have been Labor Day but either of the other summer holidays for family or extended family.

It isn't JT, no one's after you and I can get the argumentativeness or defensiveness or whatever but Tresir isn't after you, I guarantee you she digs and finds stuff. Even if you think the Greenway thing isn't related, look at the effort she is putting in. And I am US born and raised and I disagree with the Labor Day remarks and I disagree with the firewood job and whether worth it to someone with no money or that you could know what the pay would be.
 
I was planning to catch up but only place I've been since getting home from a 9:30 p.m. long day with an hour work meeting after. And an early day tomorrow. And I've done nothing but be on this thread since I got home and it's midnight! I know it is time to go watch something because as can be seen with my last post, just think I need something else to watch or do before bed. Depending on what posts are ahead, I could easily be responding to all and I won't get as it is three to four hours sleep even if I went to bed now. And my mood is tried and not real agreeable lol.

Later all.
 
Well I don't know about this nonprofit part, I am going to have to get more on that later but city owned land and parks ARE public property generally. Same with county and state and federal. It of course doesn't mean there can't be rules or uses but such is public land or property generally. We all finance these entities, the public does. One would never know it these days but they are our employees and our governments who WE employ and pay with our tax dollars.
This is set up so donors can claim back their tax. It is like a private charitable organisation. The 55 acres bit that was sold to the city would be like normal public land IMO.
 
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Oh come on. That is not true that no one works on Labor Day for starters. I did. This year. I didn't picnic or BBQ. And you're talking about a homeless man who can't get work. Labor Day is a big nothing day for many people. It's not Christmas. It isn't even Memorial Day with such meaning to it. @Tresir may be in the UK but don't push a bunch of untrue stuff at her.

No offense, I can tell you and she'd agree that I and @Tresir have butted heads and don't always have the same opinion. @Regina has been here too and her and I butt heads once in awhile and for sure don't always have the same opinion but as you see we are all here discussing together.

Maybe it is unlikely wood delivered at night on a holiday but I can tell you flat out it has never been clear to me when this job was to be and I doubt it was to @Tresir either and do you even know? I don't know either when he was to pick up mom's wired money, where or how he was to get there? When it came in, was it that night and he could have gotten iit then? Did he plan to the next day? When and how? I seem to recall mom was immediately worried as he hadn't picked it up and hadn't answered. Also what bus would he have taken and what day and what time because he did not pick up mom's money that night that's clear. Sooo there is much unclear and I can see easily why Tresir is thinking as she is, I could as well as we know NONE of these things.

Now maybe all the years of JT thread and talking with his mom and seeing tons of others things you know when the job was, what the job would pay, when he was going to pick up mom's money, when it came in, where he had to get it and how he was going to get there, etc. but I somehow DOUBT it. Because I doubt his mom knew when he was going to pick it up necessarily or every detail about the firewood job.

Tell me this, if the firewood job would as you said just barely cover the bus ticket, then there was no need to send money UNLESS he had SOME reason for not wanting to the do the job or some need to get out of town sooner. But then he didn't and he was murdered. And I think that's significant with its timing in his case. He simply didn't manage to go soon enough. It sure looks like that could be the case. So who is it and what was it he was worried about?

By the way I'll likely work next Labor Day too. And I'm sure people who need money would too, like Troy. No offense but are you living in the 50s where all have picnics, family get togethers and BBQs and no one has to work and every service industry is open and it's on a holiday that has no real significance to most? Many kids are back in school prior to Labor Day. Always been that way in my state.

Even those that camp are putting up their camper, pulling up their deck from their permanent summer spot and closing them up. MANY people are working at something on Labor Day or they're just doing nothing at home as it is the END of the summer season and the last day IF kids are out of school yet before next day IS SCHOOL so they're packing backpacks, making lunches, fiilling out tons of forms, etc., etc. The Monday, the actual day? That's when most have to travel home and are looking at real life about to intrude. Fall is coming, we need firewood, it is back to school and work, etc. Picnic? Lol. I guess there may be a few who do it on the Monday. But why? LOL.

And I'm sorry but Troy isn't living the 9 to 5 family picnic life nor are any truckers who are at the Pilot. Nor anyone looking to hire someone to deliver firewood. Think about it, someone ordered some, someone wanted someone to deliver it put to him on that weekend.

None of this is really worth time other than I think it really wrong and unfair you claim that's how it is in the U.S. and that's what we all do on Labor Day and said such to Tresir. It is sooo false. Did you have a big picnic with extended family or a BBQ? Maybe you did. If so good for you. In my family it would have been in my parent's generation and even then it would never have been Labor Day but either of the other summer holidays for family or extended family.

It isn't JT, no one's after you and I can get the argumentativeness or defensiveness or whatever but Tresir isn't after you, I guarantee you she digs and finds stuff. Even if you think the Greenway thing isn't related, look at the effort she is putting in. And I am US born and raised and I disagree with the Labor Day remarks and I disagree with the firewood job and whether worth it to someone with no money or that you could know what the pay would be.
Completely agree with you. I didnt want to get into a row about who works on Labor day but a lot of people work on public holidays everywhere, police, firefighters, nurses and doctors, military, carers, supermarket workers, hospitality etc etc. I actually think the firewood job is much more likely on a public holiday weekend as people may want it for outdoor camp fires, barbecues, social and work gatherings etc.
 
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I am lost here. That's what publicly owned IS basically. City sidewalk for instance is ours to walk on. City parks are ours to use. City bike trails are ours to ride on. City dog parks are ours to take dogs to. What was it before, county land? Still ours. I don't know how the UK is but I am not sure what you think publicly owned means. That the entire public actually has deeded ownership? Maybe Oregon is different, Lord knows some things are as I've learned from Kimster but I doubt it on this. It's just like our national parks like Yellowstone, Grand Canyon, etc., etc. they are OUR parks. County land and state land can be hunted on in states for instance, that's public land. State parks can be camped in by the public because they are public state parks

You say it was public and is now owned by the City or part of it is. Well who is it that owned it prior? Must have been some other entity that meant t was publicly owned and again that would be a city, county, state government. That is what makes such public land. In the U.S.
The Greenway was all owned by the 501c non profit - a private charitable foundation where donations attract tax relief. In 2022, 55 acres of this in Central Point was sold to the city after the bad fires in Almeda that destroyed a lot of property. Central Point has plans for the park.
 
I was planning to catch up but only place I've been since getting home from a 9:30 p.m. long day with an hour work meeting after. And an early day tomorrow. And I've done nothing but be on this thread since I got home and it's midnight! I know it is time to go watch something because as can be seen with my last post, just think I need something else to watch or do before bed. Depending on what posts are ahead, I could easily be responding to all and I won't get as it is three to four hours sleep even if I went to bed now. And my mood is tried and not real agreeable lol.

Later all.
This thread is a time waster for sure, I have found that I have spent hours reading and checking stuff without realising it.
 
All I know is he told his mom he was offered a 1/2 days work delivering firewood. He didn't choose to accept it for whatever reason, maybe he didn't have the right gear, maybe it was sketchy, maybe he didn't want to. Who knows. His usual occupation was helping truckers with their loads, working around the trucks, maybe polishing wheels.
I don't know whether he'd have accepted any job, maybe he just wanted to leave.
 

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