JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

RoundPeg said:
Who besides Lori has dead children?

I'd also add that from Charles through Tammy and possibly Alex was a pretty short time frame and their start of their plans and murders. I don't think they got far in the overall plan before they had to run, lie, etc. Who knows who was in the line-up or would have been... Again we only knew of or saw the list Lori had from Chad of those around her, in her family, etc. He was telling other women they were married to him in the past, telling others who they had been in former lives, etc.

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
He said it was the most extensive testing he's ever seen/done.

I don't doubt that a bit. But it wasn't an autopsy done right after death and there are many things aren't there that change or even substances that naturally occur in the body that can't always be put down to natural or unnatural substances plus some dissipate or change. I'm sure I'm not wording it right but I think you likely know what I mean. They did the absolute best they could and went all out I'm sure.

This bunch I feel were using something that did something or caused something--I mean just look at all the findings of heart or pulmonary embolisms, etc... I mean in Joe's case and Alex's it is complicated as they did show some evidence of such medical problems known or unknown but Tammy didn't...

I believe they tested as extensively as they could. And I believe they came to the best conclusion they could. And thank God they were able to attribute her death to asphyxiation, we have Tylee with no finding basically. And Alex and Joe called natural as nothing else was found... Yet the coincidence of those deaths...

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
Oh? So it was only JJ's last day? I'm depending on you, Tresir. You're our Alex cell phone ping expert now.

I'll add my kudos to @Tresir

She gives and condenses such to follow and I sure appreciate it and need it too. No time whatsoever here

If I have it right, on or right near both deaths though Alex did have data points at her apartment for hours on end...

And do I have the idea of data points correct? I believe it means his phone connected to Lori's wifi or Chad's wifi, or at least registered her wifi etc. was there to connect to as he was in the home, etc. and things I think like Lori's doorbell (probably a Ring?)... That's how I am kind of taking it, do I have it right? That's how they place him at the gate at Chad's, at this spot at Lori's, etc.?

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

Kimster said:
Today's explosive testimony so far:

10 a.m. Audrey says she terminated the friendship with Lori in October 2019 after praying about it. She was in Lori’s house and Audrey told her she was going to go upstairs and pack her bags. Audrey: “I asked her the question, ‘Is there anything weird going on that I don’t know about? And she said, ‘What do you mean?’ and I said ‘I don’t know anything.’ I took her at her word because I’m a trusting person.”

10:04 a.m. Audrey: “As soon as I turned to go upstairs, she started laughing – like if you were laughing at someone. She said, ‘You’re so naive and too trusting. You’re like a little child. You think the world is all unicorns and rainbows. You go around helping people and serving them. Well I’ve got news for you. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be so kind. Then she threatened to kill me. She said she would cut me up and wasn’t in the mental place to do it but would get herself in a place to do it. There would be blood and bleach and something about trash bags. She would bury me in a place nobody would ever find me.”

10:07 a.m. Archibald now questioning Audrey and reminds her that she promised, under oath, to tell the whole truth. Archibald said none of this testimony came up in the grand jury proceedings. “Nothing of this sort was talked about. You want the jury to believe that you just didn’t make this last crap up?” Audrey says, “I did not make it up.”

10:08 a.m. Audrey says she did not ever mention this before because she was scared. Archibald forcefully pushes Audrey that this never came up in previous testimony and she stands by her claims. He has nothing further. Rawlings asks if she can ask one more question. Boyce says no. We are now headed to a morning break. Back around 10:40 a.m.

DAY 21 | LIVE UPDATES: Ian Pawlowski, Lori Daybell's nephew-in-law, takes the stand in murder trial - East Idaho News

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 4 p.m. Sketches from today: 3:21 p.m. Boyce says the defense intends to use the recordings and they need to be prepared. Court is dismissed for the day. Join me tonight at 7:30 p.m. on ‘Courtroom Insider’ for a breakdown of all the major...

www.eastidahonews.com

I heard this earlier but am just catching up now here on the thread. I watched some of Nate's earlier, missed it starting and some time, etc. He said he didn't see her but those with a view said when Audrey said this Lori stared/glared at her without breaking from it throughout.

@Tresir So appreciate your linking and time lining, etc. and you don't have to but I am wondering if you know if the Grand Jury proceedings were before either Lori or later Chad was/were arrested? Lori was arrested first as we know and Chad not until the kids were found so was there one GJ proceeding after it all or one and then another, etc.?

Of course I am trying to determine Audrey's claim and why she never shared it at the GJ proceedings. I of course have NO problem believing Lori said such a thing to her but for this jury and others believing her, I am wondering if she felt safe and both were in jail or at least Lori was, etc. Do you know the time frame of the GJ investigation versus when each arrest happened?

GrandmaBear · May 3, 2023

RoundPeg said:
That's just blasphemy.

This is one place I wish there was an eyeroll on the response menu. To me if people believe in multiple probations, each time on "earth" is so you can learn more and do better and yet Chad was never anyone even back to the 1700s who was bad or imperfect or wasn't "someone" or "great" and if that is the case, why would he need more times on earth to live and learn as that is how I understand such thoughts as multiple probations... What a CROCK.

Just as he made all others feel important and naming them as someone important in other lives and also as formerly married to HIM. Yeah he is nothing like a cult leader after sex and polygamy or a harem... No, not at all...

I guess we can give him this. He had no interest sexually in children right or he'd have wanted to keep some around... But then who knows maybe he wanted to propagate the new world with HIS seed, ick and considered himself the pure one to do so and perhaps this is why HIS children are still alive...

GrandmaBear · May 4, 2023

David W goes against court rules (and forgets) and watches things about the case... Now Mel P as well but we are to believe Ian didn't even though he and Mel P discussed the case and are married... And how IS it and from who the prosecution found out about it? No trying to throw the case here by Lori's bunch is there...?

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I don't doubt that a bit. But it wasn't an autopsy done right after death and there are many things aren't there that change or even substances that naturally occur in the body that can't always be put down to natural or unnatural substances plus some dissipate or change. I'm sure I'm not wording it right but I think you likely know what I mean. They did the absolute best they could and went all out I'm sure.

This bunch I feel were using something that did something or caused something--I mean just look at all the findings of heart or pulmonary embolisms, etc... I mean in Joe's case and Alex's it is complicated as they did show some evidence of such medical problems known or unknown but Tammy didn't...

I believe they tested as extensively as they could. And I believe they came to the best conclusion they could. And thank God they were able to attribute her death to asphyxiation, we have Tylee with no finding basically. And Alex and Joe called natural as nothing else was found... Yet the coincidence of those deaths...

With Tylee we don't actually need the cause of death because their actions alone implicate them in her death ie lying about her whereabouts continually, what they did to her remains and burying/hiding her remains with no priest or any other rites or mourners present. I don't think they are religious people at all by all their lying, money grubbing murderous actions. They really do deserve the death penalty and the fact Lori has escaped that is not giving the victims justice.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
David W goes against court rules (and forgets) and watches things about the case... Now Mel P as well but we are to believe Ian didn't even though he and Mel P discussed the case and are married... And how IS it and from who the prosecution found out about it? No trying to throw the case here by Lori's bunch is there...?

The whole bunch of them are indescribable IMO.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I heard this earlier but am just catching up now here on the thread. I watched some of Nate's earlier, missed it starting and some time, etc. He said he didn't see her but those with a view said when Audrey said this Lori stared/glared at her without breaking from it throughout.

@Tresir So appreciate your linking and time lining, etc. and you don't have to but I am wondering if you know if the Grand Jury proceedings were before either Lori or later Chad was/were arrested? Lori was arrested first as we know and Chad not until the kids were found so was there one GJ proceeding after it all or one and then another, etc.?

Of course I am trying to determine Audrey's claim and why she never shared it at the GJ proceedings. I of course have NO problem believing Lori said such a thing to her but for this jury and others believing her, I am wondering if she felt safe and both were in jail or at least Lori was, etc. Do you know the time frame of the GJ investigation versus when each arrest happened?

I am pretty sure the GJ would have been to indict them in the murders. If you remember Lori was arrested in Hawaii for not producing the children. But she could have been bailed at any time I guess. I don't think she was bailed as she was a flight risk. But Audrey was clearly worried she could have been bailed and that murder threat clearly scared her s***less.

I don't remember the GJ at all. I will check out the timeline though.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

Ok there were two GJ's. One in Idaho 24th May and one in Arizona 24th June, both in 2021. This is taken from the East Idaho timeline in the link at the bottom. Not sure which GJ Audrey gave evidence at. Both Chad and Lori are in jail at this time. Lori's bail was lowered to $1 million so could have bailed out at any time if she had raised the money.

2021
In January, an audio recording between prosecutor Wood and Summer Shiflet, Lori’s sister, is released. Wood tells Summer he plans to file conspiracy to commit murder charges against the Daybells.
LISTEN | New information revealed in recording between Lori Daybell’s sister and Prosecutor Rob Wood
On Feb. 4, the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office announces Tammy’s autopsy is complete but details are not released. That same day, newly elected Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake requests Tammy’s death investigation case be sent back to her office from the Idaho Attorney General. The AG transfers the case.
On March 22, Wood adds veteran Missouri homicide attorney Rachel Smithto assist his team in the case.
On May 24, a grand jury indicts Chad and Lori on several new felony charges, including first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Prosecutors announce the charges during a May 25 news conference, releasing the indictment containing additional information surrounding the homicides of Tylee, JJ and Tammy.
On June 8, Lori is committed to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare. A psychologist deems her not fit for trial and a judge agrees she can not assist in her defense.
Chad pleads not guilty to all counts in the indictment on June 9. His children sit behind him in the courtroom.
On June 24, a grand jury in Arizona indicts Lori for conspiracy to commit murder in the death of her fourth husband, Charles Vallow. Prosecutors decline to press charges against Chad saying there is “no reasonable likelihood of conviction.”

Judge denies Vallow Daybell's request to send case back to grand jury - East Idaho News

ST. ANTHONY — A judge has denied a request from Lori Vallow Daybell’s defense team to reconvene a grand jury for the purpose of clarifying language in her criminal indictment. Daybell and her husband Chad Daybell are charged with multiple counts of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit...

www.eastidahonews.com

GrandmaBear · May 4, 2023

Tresir said:
With Tylee we don't actually need the cause of death because their actions alone implicate them in her death ie lying about her whereabouts continually, what they did to her remains and burying/hiding her remains with no priest or any other rites or mourners present. I don't think they are religious people at all by all their lying, money grubbing murderous actions. They really do deserve the death penalty and the fact Lori has escaped that is not giving the victims justice.

I agree with every single word in this post.

Although I think this case is proven and a conviction SHOULD be coming, there have been a number of questionable things and screw ups to date, and the mistakes that led to removal of the death penalty for Lori Vallow are beyond okay.

This man and woman imo do not belong on the face of this earth and the best thing that could happen is they are sent posthaste to their father and lord and master--the DEVIL himself. They don't belong on the face of this earth! They'd have to agree wouldn't they--I mean they think they are other worldly and beyond us mere mortals! Agree that they don't belong on earth I mean...

In some ways they seem like spoiled children though and nothing more than that who will stop at nothing yes, to get their money grubbing hands on all they need to indulge their appetites for sex, money and fast food, power and control. I had to throw fast food in there, it seems to come up a lot... Burger King, Del Taco, Chick-Fil-A...

GrandmaBear · May 4, 2023

Tresir said:
I am pretty sure the GJ would have been to indict them in the murders. If you remember Lori was arrested in Hawaii for not producing the children. But she could have been bailed at any time I guess. I don't think she was bailed as she was a flight risk. But Audrey was clearly worried she could have been bailed and that murder threat clearly scared her s***less.

I don't remember the GJ at all. I will check out the timeline though.

I keep saying it but there was so much in this case, I have forgotten some. One can only stuff so much into one's head (and that's without other cases as well) without some falling out lol.

It seems to ring a bell that we had a hint or two it was going on and Mel G being served and reacting or having a fit maybe on the courthouse steps or some such... I don't recall the time frame. I think maybe it was AFTER Lori was arrested for not producing the kids or whatever that first charge was...

I'm just trying to determine of course whether Audrey at the time of the GJ should have felt safe enough to share the threat Lori made to her at the GJ...

GrandmaBear · May 4, 2023

Tresir said:
Ok there were two GJ's. One in Idaho 24th May and one in Arizona 24th June, both in 2021. This is taken from the East Idaho timeline in the link at the bottom. Not sure which GJ Audrey gave evidence at. Both Chad and Lori are in jail at this time. Lori's bail was lowered to $1 million so could have bailed out at any time if she had raised the money.

2021

In January, an audio recording between prosecutor Wood and Summer Shiflet, Lori’s sister, is released. Wood tells Summer he plans to file conspiracy to commit murder charges against the Daybells.

LISTEN | New information revealed in recording between Lori Daybell’s sister and Prosecutor Rob Wood

On Feb. 4, the Fremont County Sheriff’s Office announces Tammy’s autopsy is complete but details are not released. That same day, newly elected Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake requests Tammy’s death investigation case be sent back to her office from the Idaho Attorney General. The AG transfers the case.

On March 22, Wood adds veteran Missouri homicide attorney Rachel Smithto assist his team in the case.

On May 24, a grand jury indicts Chad and Lori on several new felony charges, including first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Prosecutors announce the charges during a May 25 news conference, releasing the indictment containing additional information surrounding the homicides of Tylee, JJ and Tammy.

On June 8, Lori is committed to the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare. A psychologist deems her not fit for trial and a judge agrees she can not assist in her defense.

Chad pleads not guilty to all counts in the indictment on June 9. His children sit behind him in the courtroom.

On June 24, a grand jury in Arizona indicts Lori for conspiracy to commit murder in the death of her fourth husband, Charles Vallow. Prosecutors decline to press charges against Chad saying there is “no reasonable likelihood of conviction.”

Judge denies Vallow Daybell's request to send case back to grand jury - East Idaho News

ST. ANTHONY — A judge has denied a request from Lori Vallow Daybell’s defense team to reconvene a grand jury for the purpose of clarifying language in her criminal indictment. Daybell and her husband Chad Daybell are charged with multiple counts of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit...

www.eastidahonews.com

All familiar and ringing a bell on reading this. Man it is hard to remember the details in this case after a time. The overall deaths, names and many other details I retain but dates and these kinds of things not so much.

I forgot about how Fremont wanted the case back from the State. That bothered me at the time and I wonder about it again now... Is this just wanting local control for ego reasons or is it to do with the church and controlling it and others who may have come to be under the spotlight/indicted... I recall thinking that at the time...

And look at what has happened with the local control--lack of a speedy trial, and the DP removed for Lori, cases severed, etc., etc...

Anyhow to get back to my point, I mostly wanted to know this as even though I am the type that could totally believe Audrey because I can't stand the Daybells and I sure can believe Lori threatened such to her, I was checking myself and wondered if she should have been this fearful at this point, fearful enough to LIE in a grand jury/legal proceeding but Lori was behind bars...

I don't know. I can't wrap my head around these people, even Audrey. For me, I'd be scared to death to lie in court in a murder case and in a grand jury for sure, no doubt. But she is so scared of something Lori said once and thinks she can and will come get her that she lies or doesn't come forth with this info at the time...? Even though Lori is in jail on a MILLION dollar bond and even if she did get out, Lori would have way more to worry about than Audrey. That is beyond my understanding. Did she think she was that powerful, her portal out of jail to get her or what? I mean really??

If she is telling the truth now then I can't even fathom these people or followers of the Daybells. Even after finding out what they did, what they were up to, that they are mortal and haven't portal-ed out of jail, she fears that much and didn't tell the truth?

Of course I want to say and would normally I believe her now and it is entirely plausible Lori said this to her and I don't doubt she did but I am outlining here why some, including jurors, will or would wonder which time was the truth...

Thankfully I don't think that "bombshell" makes or breaks this case whether true or not.

It is easily believable as one of Lori's kids WAS cut up... Just as she allegedly threatened to do to Audrey. So it certainly does add to the conspiracy and make sense.

Thanks for finding this info, you are a Godsend. I can barely keep up even just in this thread.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
David W goes against court rules (and forgets) and watches things about the case... Now Mel P as well but we are to believe Ian didn't even though he and Mel P discussed the case and are married... And how IS it and from who the prosecution found out about it? No trying to throw the case here by Lori's bunch is there...?

I am going to check out that Podcast again - the one with Jason, Thor, Mel G and Lori. I seem to remember Mel G mentioning something about a closet and now I am thinking that was weird because we have only heard of Lori's closet as a portal, so I want to know who has these closet/portal things and why/what are they for?

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
All familiar and ringing a bell on reading this. Man it is hard to remember the details in this case after a time. The overall deaths, names and many other details I retain but dates and these kinds of things not so much.

I forgot about how Fremont wanted the case back from the State. That bothered me at the time and I wonder about it again now... Is this just wanting local control for ego reasons or is it to do with the church and controlling it and others who may have come to be under the spotlight/indicted... I recall thinking that at the time...

And look at what has happened with the local control--lack of a speedy trial, and the DP removed for Lori, cases severed, etc., etc...

Anyhow to get back to my point, I mostly wanted to know this as even though I am the type that could totally believe Audrey because I can't stand the Daybells and I sure can believe Lori threatened such to her, I was checking myself and wondered if she should have been this fearful at this point, fearful enough to LIE in a grand jury/legal proceeding but Lori was behind bars...

I don't know. I can't wrap my head around these people, even Audrey. For me, I'd be scared to death to lie in court in a murder case and in a grand jury for sure, no doubt. But she is so scared of something Lori said once and thinks she can and will come get her that she lies or doesn't come forth with this info at the time...? Even though Lori is in jail on a MILLION dollar bond and even if she did get out, Lori would have way more to worry about than Audrey. That is beyond my understanding. Did she think she was that powerful, her portal out of jail to get her or what? I mean really??

If she is telling the truth now then I can't even fathom these people or followers of the Daybells. Even after finding out what they did, what they were up to, that they are mortal and haven't portal-ed out of jail, she fears that much and didn't tell the truth?

Of course I want to say and would normally I believe her now and it is entirely plausible Lori said this to her and I don't doubt she did but I am outlining here why some, including jurors, will or would wonder which time was the truth...

Thankfully I don't think that "bombshell" makes or breaks this case whether true or not.

It is easily believable as one of Lori's kids WAS cut up... Just as she allegedly threatened to do to Audrey. So it certainly does add to the conspiracy and make sense.

Thanks for finding this info, you are a Godsend. I can barely keep up even just in this thread.

I read something that could suggest Audrey took the 5th but am now looking in Mel G's closet. Here's a link I just found that outlines the crazy beliefs of this group. I think when some of them realised the kids had really disappeared, they panicked.

Lori Vallow Daybell's spiritual inner circle explains her self-described beliefs

The twisted nature of Lori Vallow Daybell's spiritual beliefs is unraveling as some of her closest inner circle testify at her murder trial.

www.courttv.com

GrandmaBear · May 4, 2023

Tresir said:
I read something that could suggest Audrey took the 5th but am now looking in Mel G's closet. Here's a link I just found that outlines the crazy beliefs of this group. I think when some of them realised the kids had really disappeared, they panicked.

Lori Vallow Daybell's spiritual inner circle explains her self-described beliefs

The twisted nature of Lori Vallow Daybell's spiritual beliefs is unraveling as some of her closest inner circle testify at her murder trial.

www.courttv.com

Portals were made in Lori's closet or Chad's bed... Okay...

I have to smh every time that in their opinion Lori and Chad were at the top attainable spot on the light and dark scale... With their ranking system I suppose Hitler is there too, Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper and more. And I suppose Mother Teresa, Joan of Arc, Florence Nightingale, etc. on the Chad and Lori scale are the darkest of the dark.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
I'll add my kudos to @Tresir

She gives and condenses such to follow and I sure appreciate it and need it too. No time whatsoever here

If I have it right, on or right near both deaths though Alex did have data points at her apartment for hours on end...

And do I have the idea of data points correct? I believe it means his phone connected to Lori's wifi or Chad's wifi, or at least registered her wifi etc. was there to connect to as he was in the home, etc. and things I think like Lori's doorbell (probably a Ring?)... That's how I am kind of taking it, do I have it right? That's how they place him at the gate at Chad's, at this spot at Lori's, etc.?

TY Gbear and @Kimster. I am not exactly sure of the technology but it depends on the cell phone tower locations and triangulation between them, I think, which pinpoints the locations. Perhaps the expert explained in their testimonies.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

GrandmaBear said:
Portals were made in Lori's closet or Chad's bed... Okay...

I have to smh every time that in their opinion Lori and Chad were at the top attainable spot on the light and dark scale... With their ranking system I suppose Hitler is there too, Charles Manson, Jack the Ripper and more. And I suppose Mother Teresa, Joan of Arc, Florence Nightingale, etc. on the Chad and Lori scale are the darkest of the dark.

Yes, didn't someone have a prior life close to Hitler IIRC? Personally, I think it sounds like dark satanic stuff similar to witchcraft.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

Tresir said:
They all just basically said they were warriors. Each had some bad times and were saved by Jesus to become a warrior.

Boyce did not want the bit played where she mentions Joe Ryan apparently. Not sure why. I guess it is prejudicial?

This is what the judge said.
https://twitter.com/PrettyLiesAlibi
Pretty Lies & Alibis
@PrettyLiesAlibi
·
13h

Lindsey Blake says the defendant is barred from entering in her own statements. Judge Boyce says it depends on what the statements are #lorivallow
@LawCrimeNetwork

Gibb said she spent a year praying in her closet. :thinking:

This podcast was 2018 I believe.

Click on the replies to open out the rest of the podcast details.

Tresir · May 4, 2023

Oh yeah I vaguely remember this. Will have to read and refresh my memory.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

2021​

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

2021​

Well-known member

Well-known member

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Forum statistics

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

2021

2021