JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

Tresir · May 24, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
I have now watched all of Emma's and all of Garth's. I rewatched parts even more than once. I WISH to heck I had time to take it ALL apart as there is so much. And the contradictions and the questions some things bring that wouldn't necessarily occur to everyone or every juror or watcher but may to one of us or another and so on.

I'll likely never get that time but basically Emma is trying to cover EVERYTHING that CHad could get on the stand and say HIMSELF but he won't. But she is NOT anything but a relative who is biased, a liar, trying to help her dad, and a HEARSAY witness to most things which is NOT allowed. There's so much to discuss and of interest but I'm doing a summary in a nutshell (rare right?).

NONE of it is anything imo and family members are the least valued witnesses generally by jury or anyone for obvious reasons. It is CLEAR what they are doing and why.

Even so, there's so much to unpack here. Don't think I I'll ever get the time and would make for great discussion with us all but just trying to catch up with the rest of you right now in posts ND discussion. And by then the trial will be at another point. Nate's last night was something else but it sure did not have of course all testimony.

It isn't like there were fireworks but there was plenty to think on and talk of. She's a liar. Garth's was interesting as well and I almost have to wonder about his mess ups and whether wasn't coached well enough or maybe he's not so on board.

NOt for ONE MINUTE do I believe at least Emma has not watched all the testimony, etc. They were allowed to if wanted. HEY she only found out (dummy) dad was having a physical affiar from the "news" THAT is interesting because when did news say THAT exactly....? IT SHOWS THOUGH SHE WAS LOOKING and watching sh*t and she said after Lori was arrested she started hearing some and after Chad was even more. DUH Emma.

But these kids are liars or dumb and in denial. Emma would stay in denial if that was the case and no one can actually show evidence of Chad and Lori doing it so WHAT convinced her. She dind't believe it when at Knotts Berry Farm....

There is a lot in her time on the stand Nate couldn't cover. Man I WISH he would give his opinions lol as you know he has them, he wanted to a million times last night in his show. He pointed out and hinted at some things for us...

WHAT is it about that mattress.....????? There's a lot of stuff talked of or come close to but then they don't finish going there...

No one ever lost it with the other or anything like that but boy when ya know what we all do it was interesting as all heck...

I can think of things P could have brought up or went a lot harder at and I wonder on that... Maybe on one hand they don't want to make her kids too important as they're not. They are simply LYING for dad... Or maybe it is to do with scope.

P never called them on the suppoenaes in their case in chief... Where THEY could set the topics... But then again would that make them too important seeming where they ARE NOT imo...

Strategy... Both sides have to assess risk and possible damage of any and all witnesses right...

So will they be limited in rebuttal? Of course they have to I think rebut things said and addressed or brought out by defense as us THIS when we will hear Emma's conversations with Chad, and denying he said things flat out or claiming to not recall. On some she said NEVER... I think there may be well the fiery impactful rebuttal stage.

What trial was it recently that did not have the second time and last time up for prosecution?? I never knew any state did not allow such, it is the way it is mean to be imo. and the way I've always known it to be done. Was It Harmony's? I haven't followed or had time to many in recent times... It DOES happnen here though. Defense resting is not the end. Prosecution gets one more time up and calling witnesses etc.

God I could go on about many things in these testimonies but no time and will never catch-up and behind on this case and others this week.

So I guess when Lori met them all in Cali for their little family trip she and Chad did not share a room as at that point none of their kids thought it was a PHYSICAL affair... And weren't all sexty touch feely. There were a TON of objections by Blake and in chambers law on hearsay over this trip and what Lori shared with Emma. Nate could only cover so much, he didn't cover this much last night as I recall. He did say to GO watch both Emma's and Garth's and he could not cover it all. I have now.

Emma is trying to testify for Chad where he can't or won't and they are trying to get in what he would LIE about, say and claim and point out by her. Didn't work perfectly and ya know what Prior and Chad if you want it all heard where it isnt' hearsay by Emma, have Chad take the stand...

There's also a hinttt of throwing Tammy out there Subtle but if you watch all I'd be interesting to see if anyone picks up on the same thing. SHE was the one who did the pet cemetery , she PER Emma rated people and rated death percentages Yes there was one question like that she answered yes to. And in much of her questioning by Blake who I think tries to catch her she is instant with her answers, yes, yes, yes, no and hardly misses a wrong one without even time to take in the question and it's ODD. But there are a couple of shortt pause comes in which is striking even though short because she is rat a tat immediate otherwise...

I was done with these kids before seeing any of this trial. And only overdone now. However, GARTH is interesting. Out of the gate he screwed up royally and got what vehicle each parent drove normally wrong and it went on while Prior tried to fix it. RIGHT from the start! And MORE like that. I don't know if it goes to lack of prep, intelligence OR he is conflicted and told the truth and slipped right off the bat...

Blake said on an occasion or two something to Emma about would it surprise you if your brother said this or that? And one she was that she didn't believe he did that for a second and to me that showed she watched testimony and they talked, etc. But he was different than her on the stand...

I am far from reading all posts in the last two days here, way behind BUT at break have seen a few out of order way ahead, havent' seen the before, etc. and dd even though I am nowhere near it yet see the ones about GArth and being married and so forth. YES. He was NOT though when Tammy died. AND his future wife was one who told LE that he told her Tammy was on the couch. He told TWO people this or so Blake claimed. Now don't get me wrong, I think P and D can lie in their questions to witnesses even at trial. There was also another person I am unclear of who it is that I see you all saw that allegedly he told he found his mom dead and Chad was NOT at home. There's a LOT and Nate covered a lot in his Tweets yesterday and in his video last night but he even said go watch, there's more, no time to cover it all. I recommend doing so to anyone here of those of us all chatting or have followed regularly because you will pick up on a LOT of things.
now that Emma denied some things as did Garth, I think rebuttal could be this person and all the conversations of Emma with Chad and what he said to her and more as the splash at the end of this trial.

It WOULD be rebuttal because they answered in the negative. Garth really got hung up on what the rules were and didn't know what to do on the stand and no one could advise him.

Emma is smoother and while she dind't smart arse anything really she was fast and snappy with her answers however like Garth didn't totally always get it but was way more prepared but tripped a time or two. She contradicts self, it hasn't been pulled together and shown yet but you all will pick up on it and when the objections kept coming from Blake about what Lori said or talked about with her as the kids on the fun trip they took to the berry farm, Emma could not repeatedly understand she could answer it yes or no but NOT put in what Lori said to her. I think she was SO rehearsed as to what was NECESSARY to get in she did not even get it when Prior tried to to tell her or they were trying an end run.

SHE is like some zombie if you want my opinion. Like her dad. Flat, no emotion and when she tries to make a joke or every bit is rehearsed and barely goes off her monotone. She will be known for her I hae to smile at that (paraphrasing) like she made a funny about her mom taking herbal medicines rather than going to a doctor. I love Nate and have lived by Tweets like all but some of this if you get to needs to be HEARD, the tones, all of it. I am on no hours of sleep basically last night to today and I know it gets old so I won't go on about today at work and about life but MY GOD I have one more day and then the two off are never anything as it is all recovery. My feet are on strike! But I did watch both "kids" testimony and just highly recommending all fo us that have watched this case for years and said things or given the Benny of the doubt for them etc. do so.

I don't have any sympathy, particularly for Emma. And the entire Garth and perjury thing, HIM EITHER. And he's the oldest we find out. I don't think it was Seth so was it Mark that was the youngest? WAs he the one on the mission they all do in whatever or teen years so he was not living there when Tammy died but the oldest Garth was and then when he came home he was the minor still at home? I'm guessing.

I watched such long testimony (not that long for any who want to do it in pieces, I managed) that by the end I should she have had a notepad because all these huge points that all of us would get kept dawning on me with the testimonies. Here's one that came to mind.

So Chad, Alex and Lori killed HER CHILDREN (and Tammy) and here is Lori having fun with Chad's kids AND GRANDKIDS at the Berry FARM trip... So what does that mean, now adult children and their little children are OKAY??? And with her kids missing you were just fine having yours around them?

I have a new suspicion here about these two at least... I don't know that we should put them down as indoctrinated and naive... Maybe they were helping on some level from the start... Garth was the OLDEST and yeah right he heard dad snoring. Or ARE they just STUPID?

I am guessing but I think rebuttal may be something. I think even minor things like Emma's remarks about Zumba and more may come back to haunt he with bringing back of more minor witnesses as to Tammy's health and activities.

Oh and the whole thing about Joe getting the keys to the truck as it was potato harvest time so then he could say he saw Tammy on the couch coughing and not feeling well that night and you name it, if this entire family decided to lie or at least Chad, Emma and Joe, how would you prove this was false...IT is ALL coming from Chad sided people.

Oh and then EMMA explained he being buried in Springville because it was where she lived most of her life and her family was and there was a plot. OH TAmmy's family and a gravestone that Chad did NOT want his name on, why didn't the P ask about THAT? And a family they have NOTHING to do with any longer.

Yeah, there's PLENTY packed in there. Again no fireworks, well there were objections and a lot of other things of note but you'll pick up on them. I rewatched a lot of Emma's in fact and last night more than a bit of Garth's.

However, no jury or case should hinge on HIS own family members anyhow. I wondered why Blake didn't ask Emma why she was calling Lori in jail etc. but dont' know, can only guess as they cant' go outside the scope of what defense asked...? I don't think it used to be this way. Another thing that's changed...? For the worse?

Okay I recalled some of what I wanted dto say and dindt' think I would recall any of. I have NO Idea what happened today as I am way back.

I am guessing that talking about Lori is off limits as she has already been convicted. I don't know about rules regarding discussing co-conspirators,

GrandmaBear · May 24, 2024

Tresir said:
I am guessing that talking about Lori is off limits as she has already been convicted. I don't know about rules regarding discussing co-conspirators,

Could be. I sure have not been able to watch enough actual testimony to know but makes sense and maybe that's why Prior hasn't gone as much into Lori as expected either as it would open a door? Other than the beginning and his thing about falling for someone hot or whatever he said talk of Lori largely disappeared on both sides didn't it not too far in..? There were some times, I mean Emma was asked or he tried to what Lori said to her on the Berry Farm trip, it was the biggest repeated objection I know of and Emma could not get it through her blonde head she could not say what Lori said after I was sustained and ruled on, over and over and over.

You know earlier today I went to rewatch Nate's from last night, never did finish due to the day and b.s. and then real estate stuff and more so just now listening to second half of it, etc. AND IN ID Nate said communications are not available between prisoners and the outside world, etc. they are PRIVILEGED. This is BULLSH*T. Chad and Lori talking, Emma and Lori talking, Emma and Chad talking, NOPE. If played in court it is another thing but public will never get them. I have seen other ID laws I don't agree with but this one I was unaware of!! This is NOT OKAY.

Kimster · May 25, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
This is DIFFERENT. Kind of funny, a bit light and different. I am not the biggest Lauren and "Dr. John" fan but do watch on occasion but never gravitate to it first.

I've watched half and probably won't finish but was interesting and Aunt Vicky came in, etc.

What I took from it mostly is how the one knew everyone. She is Tammy's cousin but knew Lori, Tylee, JJ, Charles and grew up in Springville but moved to AZ. This is something else that becomes clear about the LDS to me in watching not just this case but a lot of other things, is how they ALL do know each other even if they move it is LDS community to LDS community and wards. She knew Heather, Matt, Chad, yada yada, ALL of them. Now think of that when thinking OF Tammy and thinking of LORI and any of them knowing each other. And again to me this church who keeps them all in their sight and they can only date in their ward, etc., etc. We see this over and over as to where they travel, move to or live. Even in beliefs as in maybe Rexburg being the final place...?

It is meant to be a fun story and a girls lunch out laughing their butts off and it is and Chad truly did hit her with a car however, I take more from it than that in as how they ALL know each other or of each other. That's the LDS thing.

Lauren is if I have it right and recall LDS or former herself. Again I am not the biggest fan of her and her husband but I also am not overboard about it and I have a reason that I don't need to go into, a few actually. I'm no doctor but I don't find him right on at all for one, someone else I watch calls them out and that's another reason and does not like them, and Lauren even I've gone back and forth on BUT that doesn't mean I totally dislike or won't watch them or negate them.

This is a bit of a funny true story but like I said what is interesting is HOW they or the one knew all players, all families and basically all relatives in this entire saga. And lived in two different states yet had that happen...

Watch just half... I don't intend to watch the rest, I am sure it will just be milking time after that.

That really is interesting. I watch her podcast once in a blue moon. She’s OK, but not my favorite. I didn’t know there was someone who knew all the players individually.

GrandmaBear · May 25, 2024

So I saw an interesting comment today. Remember Emma said in testimony that Chad did not like dogs? She did, I heard it and I would imagine Nate had it in his tweets? Then it said remember how Lori got rid of JJ's service dog....? Pretty significant no? And interesting?

I don't know if I ever knew of a man who didn't like dogs... I wonder if one or several attacked Chad once because with their instinct they knew Chad to be the devil.... Smelled his evil...

GrandmaBear · May 25, 2024

Kimster said:
That really is interesting. I watch her podcast once in a blue moon. She’s OK, but not my favorite. I didn’t know there was someone who knew all the players individually.

Kind of how I am about her, and about him too. Various reasons but I had forgotten on until I saw she was one with JT last night and is friendly with the Taco Queen T. Another like I said is that someone I watch does not like her and has good reasons for it that I can see. Finally with him, I'm no psych doctor like he is, but I almost never agree with most of his deep thoughts on anyone, my instincts say other than what he tends to think much of the time. He gets windy and goes I guess what he this is deep thoughts and try to inform all and just doesn't sit with me most of the time. She is OKAY a lot of the time on her own and does attend and do shows from the courthouse at lunch time or breaks and I will give her that in cases.

A petty one by me is that orange or whatever it was clown lipstick she used to wear. I always wondered if her eyesight was lost because I could not see how she could not see how it matched nothing in her palette and how garish it was. She seems to have stopped and I can only guess someone finally said something or got it through her head how bad it was. I can't even believe her own hub wouldn't have told her. Not nice I know to say this but it is true. It was HORRID.

Now I think I saw they are going to have Emma's BIL on, her hub's brother.... So even though not my fave they do get guests I am interested in seeing at times and that's how I end up watching...

Tresir · May 26, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Good points. And I know that about your mom's side and always think of it when commenting strongly of what I think of this religion. Never do I mean every person raised in it or who believes in it is bad or anything like that. However I will not be PC on what I have watched and seen these last years and not just in this case. Just the people in Lori's extended family who have left the church is like wow and it isn't like the church right caused this...? At least not that we are told. I never am judging all Mormons or LDS but I do think a lot of their things and ways contribute to, cause and create a lot of this. They knew of so much, all the podcasts, the books, etc. and actually all that is a huge thing, seminars, events, authoring, visions, etc. and that all stems from there. My God even the Jodi Arias trial and the LDS thing and Travis was it? And a TON more cases AND financial fraud revealed to no end of big $$$ recently and then fast disappearing from the news.

And sure break offs and twisting of religions can go on in any religion of course but this one I find a cult, sorry. Not saying any member from back when would see that or feel that but what I see these days for sure and I do put it right there with the likes of scientology. And these were not breakaways, most all were participating and practicing member OF the church. Chad was a bishop or whatever or priest, etc. and he and Tammy attended, almost all of them did. SCARY.

And I'm not saying traditions of old like honesty were not taught and certainly Garth nor Emma nor Chad know that one...

Just to be clear when I knock the faith and church, I am not knocking anyone raised in it that has never been anything but good and honest and not harmful to others, etc. I just think the entire thing is rife for such

I will say this though and attempt to stay away from as we aren't to go there, major religious or political remarks, but I have my beliefs as do you, but as far as any of our religions or the tops of any of the churches, there is a lot of power and money and fraud going on. I'm staying away from naming any one as I'd say it is all and I could get into what they do from missions to illegals but it would be a hard topic to discuss without talking of religion or politics. So in that way it is not only the LDS.

I consider myself a devout believer in Christianity and a Lutheran but I am NOT one to feel I need to go to church and that isn't just an excuse, I've seen hypocrisy in the people in church since I was a child. I don't know, we are all born and taught what we are taught and raised to believe what we believe in and some may stray from it when old enough to think this makes no sense. mean we could have been born black, poor, born in Italy and revering the Pope, born in an Arab country to anyone. Sorry if this sounds weird but I just mean we have the beliefs we were born into and raised in if we haven't used our own minds and thoughts to stray from such.

I do believe in God and I believe in something greater than us and I do not believe in the scientific boom thing etc. I do think evolution and God could be made to work together. As far though as organized religion or church, not so much. I can say I don't go much ever but when I do it can leave me with the most awesome feeling of why don't I do this more because I feel Him here but it can also leave me with watching others in church and the hypocrisy. It just depends. I will say I feel a presence any time I go that is a major religious holiday that's beyond who is there.

I'm really off track here but just trying to say I don't know what, all are out of control at the top and also say some would say there is no difference in a cult and religion, those who believe somehow we exist and nothing bigger ever did and I'd argue that one to no end if anyone wants to, in fact I'd dare it and compare it to the chicken and the egg...

I do think the LDS ways though are cultish in and of themselves. Maybe not with your mom or her family but I've followed a ton of things in these recent years and people who have left it and maybe it has become that way.

They all were in this case practicing members or families. Chad and Tammy. Mel and Mel. They weren't some breakoff that moved to Mexico. You ever hear of that one that news or powers that be shut down FAST...?

We have seen it in this case that almost anyone just claiming to have a vision is then followed or reversed. Or who authors. Or has a podcast. Or prepares the people. OR who helps fund these golden temples and power, etc.

Okay yes I have wandered.

I don't know that what I believe is right and I am certainly not judging every Mormon or LDS member or your mom and just hope you know that. Not for one minute would I class your mom as something like any of this.

In some ways I don't think they should blame the church because this light and dark sh!t is not LDS is it? This is some bull that Chad came up with and sold to a bunch of women who followed him at conferences. And he was an assistant to a Bishop IIRC but they had no idea presumably???? When was he excommunicated exactly? Does anyone know?

Chad has been referred to as Church of the Firstborn but I don't really know what that is. Is that an extreme cult within LDS?

Tresir · May 26, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Not sure why but I am rewatching Nate's from last night. I have so many things to do and fires to put out before another week but was just so behind this week on this case and others but this is the key one going on, and I packed a lot in and just wanted to hear it ag

I think I already said this but the one rebuttal witness said Emma told her they thought or knew or whatever Tammy had a blood clot. Pretty sure I mentioned this last night but not thoughts on it, etc. One reason I am rewatching is I had thoughts but by end could not recall all.

First off, obviously both Emma and Garth apparently gave different stories to people than what they testify to.

HOWEVER what I want to mention here is I don't think this is first heard for us. Pretty sure I've heard over years somewhere that Emma said this to someone at school. Not sure where but I don't think never before heard by me...

BUT WHAT I really want to get at and mention here is I think blood clots were mentioned at times with BOTH Joe and Alex. Not just in speculation but in causes or suggested as causes... I can't recall all that far back but it tickles...

So my thought is Chad put this in Emma's head OR she is more knowledgeable than known and she came up with it herself but if innocent, then Chad did...

Chad himself told varying stories...

I HOPE he is sweating and worrying. He SHOULD be. Not sure though he has that kind of human element in him.

Did you know a neighbour of Chad's died of a pulmonary embolism in Sept 2019? There has been speculation he saw something regarding the burial of the remains.

Chad has brainwashed the kids. They don't even have smart phones by the sound of it. And of course they're not kids.

Tresir · May 26, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
One, just Chad kneeling on her chest and pillow over face.

Two, Chad chest, pillow over face, Alex holding legs down, etc. Or Chad on chest, Alex with pillow.

Three, Chad on chest kneeling and pillow. Alex holding down both arms, Garth holding legs.

Continue from there with possibilities.

It was an exorcism after all of a dark entity, it wasn't their mom, she was a zombie.

We have no idea what HOUR Tammy died...

Just thoughts. And maybe early on it was just "containing' and after Garth went to work something more happened, casting did not work, etc...

The McDonalds thing seems to be a lie.... Why.

Conclusion, we will never know all... But there's a lot more to ALL of it and people in it even with the kids than we shall never hear or know. BOTH sets of kids. The dead ones and the very blessed fortunate living ones of Chad's...

Don't we know the times that Alex was at the nearby church on that night? That must be when she was murdered. I'll have to search back.

Tresir · May 26, 2024

Kimster said:
11:02 a.m. The night Tammy died, her phone is active and playing games at 10:22 p.m. At 11:28 p.m., a jpeg is deleted from her phone. There are then texts between Chad and Lori. At 11:46 p.m., Alex is leaving the LDS Church parking lot near Chad’s house. Alex calls Lori and then talks from 11:53 p.m. -12:09 a.m Lori texts Zulema at 12:10 a.m. Chad texts Lori at 12:35 a.m.

This makes me feel so sad. Tammy was innocently playing games on her phone just two hours before the father of her five children killed her. I wonder what picture was deleted from her phone? Did she try to take a picture of what was happening?

Just bringing Kimster's post forward about the timing of Alex at the church. Looks like Tammy was murdered between 10.22 and 11.46 pm.

Tresir · May 26, 2024

I am reviewingthe coroners report about Tammy. This is an article about her testimony.

Coroner describes why she changed Tammy Daybell's cause of death to homicide

Testimony in the death penalty trial against Chad Daybell on Wednesday focused on Tammy Daybell's death and autopsy.

www.ksl.com

Kimster · May 26, 2024

Tresir said:
Just bringing Kimster's post forward about the timing of Alex at the church. Looks like Tammy was murdered between 10.22 and 11.46 pm.

I don’t know why I didn’t pick up on this before, but why was Zulema being texted that night?

GrandmaBear · May 26, 2024

Kimster said:
I don’t know why I didn’t pick up on this before, but why was Zulema being texted that night?

She and Lori were doing a casting the night Tammy was shot at Mel P's likely empty home in AZ... Not sure about her connection the night Tammy was killed but keep in mind she received immunity and she was involved in I think more than we know perhaps. Mel and Lori were in Hawaii, I believe I am recalling this all correctly, were Alex and Z already a "thing"? I"m not sure I believe they ever had a real marriage or relationship but who knows...The didn't marry til November wasn't it? Tammy died in October... Hard to say. I took it for one that Lori was advising her that this time it worked and Tammy was dead...Maybe they were all casting again that night, perhaps Z separately from Mel P and Lori. Hard to say. I'd have to look at it again but she was texted after wasn't she...? Or was it before?

Whatever the case I think she and all were involved in and knew a lot more than has been shared and have not told the entire truth. At least with Z to the public, MAYBE she did to cops to not wreck the immunity deal, etc. BUT I doubt it, not anything she did not have to. She lawyered up like immediately on Alex's death. Recall the juror saying she was probably the strongest witness or one that stood out to her, affected her opinion BUT she also said that didn't mean she believed she told the entire truth about everything or was always truthful or something like that.

GrandmaBear · May 26, 2024

Tresir said:
In some ways I don't think they should blame the church because this light and dark sh!t is not LDS is it? This is some bull that Chad came up with and sold to a bunch of women who followed him at conferences. And he was an assistant to a Bishop IIRC but they had no idea presumably???? When was he excommunicated exactly? Does anyone know?

Chad has been referred to as Church of the Firstborn but I don't really know what that is. Is that an extreme cult within LDS?

Well per Emma and some others, there are things about these things. And that church is certainly about the End Times always has been. Now most Christian religions are or at least know of it but most don't go overboard on it and do all the prepper stuff or keep predicting the date of the end of the world as many in this one do and always have. The were aware of a lot imo and Chad's own SIL was telling them. They knew of podcasts, Julie Rowe, lots. How many church members or higher ups even followed such...

Chad was "respected" apparently. Almost all save Alex who had been excommunicated at least once and I forget dates and when back in and kicked out again I think were active and also went and used the facilities, all of them.

This church from early days was also always anti government and many still are. Polygamists and there are broken off branches OR it even went underground to this day.

Blaming them I don't know but I do know all of it is very conducive to this kind of thing if you ask me. And the church is very involved in their members live as to tracking them, dictating what jobs are okay, note how all want to be authors, etc. I'm sorry but it's just weird. Watch, and there are a ton and dig for things of those who have left or managed to leave (cults are hard to leave) and the reasons or what was happening. I've watched many, not recently but in the no so distant past, a lot. The church in this case in its infancy WAS a part of it or so it seemed and it all got shut down pretty darned fast.

I don't know but I will say I see it as comparable to Scientology who tracks their members and more as well.

There was NOT long ago a HUGE money fraud thing, I mean HUGE, at the highest level of the church. Some org reported on it or one or two and never another word. Staggering, of the type government should be shutting down the entire church, seriously.

Blame them? I don't know. I know my opinion of them and dont' believe we know it all by a long shot but Chad and Lori and pals, etc. are to blame but if something was going on under your nose and you were being told about it well I'd say you certainly don't have the cleanest hands or nose.

Chad, Tammy and the kids were all active and known... And yet per Emma all had these beliefs and ideas and Tammy even rated people etc. It doesn't come somehow from this religion...? I'd say overall they are very secular, and if not a member, there are things not shared, and money is a huge thing, and position is and I'd also say they believe selves above all others (like us), and their religion.

All that said I'm sure there are members who don't fit all this or even see it so long as all is well. Try to divorce and take the kids though... As the female. And watch the church. Many a story out there about this.

Some may say it is certainly whacky branch offs or old school types but it is NOT in every case by a long shot.

Remember just for one example, Lori's dad thought them all superior to most others. This is not unusual. Chad did the same imo and his family were chosen ones only Tammy had to go as he dind't want that wife in the 144K. In fact I believe they think all the 144 will come from the LDS and they are the chosen ones.

The 144K also is interpreted differently in different religions.

A quick Google. Wikipedia naturally is far different than the King James bible. Note in that one any man defiled by or with a woman it sounds like can't be part so Chad is out but made rules to have himself in I guess lol.

Long day. I googled but did not read these results at the links so maybe I have the Virgin thing out of context, not sure.

A couple results.

What is the significance of 144,000 in the Bible?

The numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are variously interpreted in traditional Christianity. Some, taking the numbers in Revelation to be symbolic, believe it represents all of God's people throughout history in the heavenly Church.

144,000 - Wikipedia

Wikipedia
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What does the King James version say about the 144,000?

[3] And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. [4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

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I should have also googled 144K and the LDS beliefs but don't have it in me. Worked 12+ hours, they kept us past closing to face the entire store, I hate when they DO THAT and I think we should have a choice but we don't. And I have to be back at 7:30. Like a 9 hour space between getting home and going back, less actually. I also think those working an eight instead of a ten hour should have to stay instead of all and I think since some people NEVER work nights (even though all are to be available to do so) they NEVER have that happen to them. NOR do they end up working til close one night and having to be back early as heck the next morning.

And I need time when I get home to at least to get over what is a long very hard day and so I'm sure I'll be going on little sleep as I should be in bed right now but have had no down time after the day.

Anyhow I don't know. Just some overall and even random thoughts.

And probably shouldn't get further into a religious discussions, some may get in trouble for it as it is a no, just like politics.

Even though this case certainly can hardly be talked of without it coming in in ways at times and they tried that with the court cases too although Prior keeps asking everyone.... Church power has imo definitely been present to keep such down through this case AND I still remember that deal when Lori was in a hospital where the church attorney or some such actually could call her and did... Or some such. Oh they're around this case... I find myself wondering of each and every player and even juror who is LDS. Again not all bad I'm sure as to members... I mean Chad's sister in law is LDS and warned them of what he was doing but they ignored it all (hmm), I honestly would guess the juror Nate interviewed is and I really liked her, couldn't ask for more intelligent, thoughtful and seemingly with all the right morals and common sense that one could want in a juror.

AT minimum the Church turned a blind eye and kept a deaf ear...

I guess I always need that longwinded one to change modes after work..

And I'm no expert of course on this religion just talking what I've seen and have seen a ton of it and recall a fair amount of things at the beginning of this case too...

GrandmaBear · May 26, 2024

So tomorrow and this week should be VERY INTERESTING. Anyone that can, I'd say watch it especially rebuttal and the come closings...

GrandmaBear · May 26, 2024

Tresir said:
Did you know a neighbour of Chad's died of a pulmonary embolism in Sept 2019? There has been speculation he saw something regarding the burial of the remains.

Chad has brainwashed the kids. They don't even have smart phones by the sound of it. And of course they're not kids.

Yes I think he did see something. I believe he had mentioned the fires where previously he'd never seen any over there or a big fire or some such and I believe LE talked to him or he shared this. I could have that wrong but it's the way I recall it and then he was dead... Yeah, LOTS of pulmonary embolisms in this "case" and so on...

Well Emma said she didn't have a smart phone "then" that was her excuse for using dad's computer to search wind direction on the day Tylee was more than likely for sure buried... Yeah he didn't like Tammy gaming either... And then look at the hypocrite with Lori and Chad owning enough phones to give on to everyone in a small city... LOL.

You koow, Garth made the 911 call. And one can figure I think safely Chad had him do that and it was certainly not right away either.... And I've seen people saying Garth's first remark was we found my mom dead and frozen on the ground... And it was not what was to be said and the thinking is Chad grabbed his arm, gave him a look, and Garth quickly said I mean stiff but Chad said elsewhere he woke up to find her dead in bed with a smile on her face, couldn't believe such hadn't woken him and she just passed peacefully in her sleep. THAT was he planned story once put back in bed, etc. and Garth screwed it up and then Chad grabbed he phone. There's more but I just don't have it in me tonight. I DO think Garth likely found her and dad was NOT there as he told the rebuttal witness...

Since trial will be back on tomorrow I may not get back to the more on this but we'll see. Food for thought though... Just giving some.

Also I heard more than once that Tammy was playing video games until TEN that night. I at first thought people had it mixed up with Garth playing them into the wee hours but I must have missed this fact, apparently it is fact. That would mean most likely Chad and Tammy were not together right up until almost as he dind't want her playing video games. It also would indicate imo she wasn't feeling THAT poorly at all.

GrandmaBear · May 28, 2024

Are all ready to rock and to roll??!! Should be an interesting day with rebuttal! Wish I was off to watch it.

If anyone is looking to watching something before court starts today, here is one from Nate last night if one wants a prep for today.

GrandmaBear · May 28, 2024

I think Emma's lies re life insurance are going to be a big part of rebuttal...

GrandmaBear · May 28, 2024

Funny how she talks in one breath too that it was such cheap insurance but then later says can't afford to take max (so not that cheap I guess...).

But she LIED about her dad not being involved in taking our insurance!

GrandmaBear · May 28, 2024

Good refresher too on Emma's testimony re the wind direction Google search, etc. She gave way tmi and so obviously a lie. Anyhow, as a;ways. a good watch. Haven't finished all but a fair amount. have to go.

Kimster · May 28, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
I think Emma's lies re life insurance are going to be a big part of rebuttal...

That proves that she is a liar, and the rest of her testimony can be dismissed. At least that’s how I would feel if I was a juror. When Garth tries to explain away his different recollections of finding his mom, he sounds like it takes him a minute to figure out a way to answer to not look like a liar, too.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

144,000 - Wikipedia