JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

Tresir · May 28, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Not liking the not allowing the friend Tammy talked to life insurance about Chad wanting her to up it. I guess Emma's lies kind of stand for themselves with the insurance but still...

I also believe Hermasillo about the gym versus Emma's embellishment which I think is what she did with much. Trying to make cops the bad guys was a theme with she and hub. And Hermasillo flat out admits driving by both before and after the kids were found. So WHAT? Doesn't try to hide it at all nor deny that he saw her at the gym.

The Haunted House guy last week that said Garth told him HE found Tammy I found very believable as well.

And all the problems with Emma's and Garth's testimony actually I think put more nails in Chad's coffin. Too much, way too much. Emma took responsibility for about all that would save Chad. Wind direction, wanting no autopsy, more that I forget right now, it was all her, her, her. Oh her with her mom when the life insurance thing was completed and Chad had nothing to do with it and signed on a Sunday they did. B.S.

Chad is burnt toast on all charges imo and closings have not even been given yet. Even IF the jury leaned more on one murder than another, they then have to look at the likelihood he was involved in one or two and not the other one or two when ALL these people were DARK and ZOMBIES and this is what happened to such in the world of Chad and Lori and Alex (and more imo).

I thought exactly the same about the friend. But the jury heard it and have been told to disregard it. How does that work when they have Emma lying about it? They have to decide about Emma's truthfulness whose father could be convicted of murdering her mother for the life insurance money yet they are not to consider this witness? This is crucial.

Tresir · May 28, 2024

Most memorable bit of this case for me was Chad trying to do the runner when he saw they had found the graves.

That bit alone would be the clincher, if I was on the jury.

GrandmaBear · May 28, 2024

Tresir said:
I thought exactly the same about the friend. But the jury heard it and have been told to disregard it. How does that work when they have Emma lying about it? They have to decide about Emma's truthfulness whose father could be convicted of murdering her mother for the life insurance money yet they are not to consider this witness? This is crucial.

You mean Garth's "friend"? Just trying to understand because the jury was not told to disregard him you don't mean do you?

Tired but a bit confused reading your post. I am guessing you mean Garth's friend.

And then you are talking of Emma and what were they told to disregard? Did they hear the argument of whether to have the woman on rebuttal? I'd think they would have done that outside the presence of the jury. And I'm not sure I am following correctly your post but think I am.

Did she testify in the main trial and were they told to disregard all her testimony?

As you can see, a bit confused.

FIrst you ARE talking two different things right? Garth's friend and then separately the thing about Emma and life insurance and that witness.

OR IT JUST dawned on me you ARE talking about her, meaning Tammy's friend? That makes more sense. Sorry! So if so, they were told to disregard what? She never testified in rebuttal. So they heard the argument?

Very confused. It's me. I apologize.

GrandmaBear · May 28, 2024

Tresir said:
Most memorable bit of this case for me was Chad trying to do the runner when he saw they had found the graves.

That bit alone would be the clincher, if I was on the jury.

yeah that was a big one and in trying to think of things Emma explained away or tried to that was one of many... He wasn't speeding. WAs going to see an attorney, couldn't say that if I recall but we know the claim, I think the P objected. I did watch both kids' full testimonies.

Take a look at Nate's if you get a chance and if can't watch all go to the last I don't know 1/2 hour to hear other people's things of note. It was interesting and I think they and us all saying what is of note shows that even different jurors or member of the public will have different ultra important moments but I think ALL had too many to choose from and THAT will convict him. Most people said that too, hard to PICK just one...

I'm not sure of my top... I think how Chad protected himself always stands out... Hid HIS phone records, location, ensured most looks to be on Alex and Lori like the kids, even Tammy with Alex's phone the only one found in the area and so on, but he screwed up plenty too... I THINK the story may have been going to be that Garth found her dead and dad wasn't home (see dad couldn't have done it), the person who shot at her probably came in and did it OR it was natural causes. I think there was a different plan in place here but think Garth screwed it up with his first remark to 911 on we found her frozen on the GROUND. WE did...

Tresir · May 29, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
You mean Garth's "friend"? Just trying to understand because the jury was not told to disregard him you don't mean do you?

Tired but a bit confused reading your post. I am guessing you mean Garth's friend.

And then you are talking of Emma and what were they told to disregard? Did they hear the argument of whether to have the woman on rebuttal? I'd think they would have done that outside the presence of the jury. And I'm not sure I am following correctly your post but think I am.

Did she testify in the main trial and were they told to disregard all her testimony?

As you can see, a bit confused.

FIrst you ARE talking two different things right? Garth's friend and then separately the thing about Emma and life insurance and that witness.

OR IT JUST dawned on me you ARE talking about her, meaning Tammy's friend? That makes more sense. Sorry! So if so, they were told to disregard what? She never testified in rebuttal. So they heard the argument?

Very confused. It's me. I apologize.

Yeah Tammy's friend who commented about the insurance saying that Tammy had said Chad asked her to increase it and this was shortly before she was murdered.

This directly contradicts Emma's testimony that said Chad wasnt involved and also highlights that she lied because Chad signed it too right?

But they are not going to allow it in. I was answering and agreeing with your post about it.

She was a proposed rebuttal witness but they wouldn't let it in. This conversation with Tammy was a month before she died - so around 20 Sept. Right around the time JJ was killed and buried on the property. She listened to Emma's testimony and knew it wasn't right.

9:01 a.m. Olsen says there was a group of people present for the conversation but this isn’t information the defense knew before trial. The defense has not been able to verify who was at the table when the statement was apparently made. Boyce says limited the testimony down does not provide the jury with full context of the conversation. Boyce rules to exclude Janice Olsen from testifying further as a rebuttal witness.
9 a.m. Boyce says he doesn’t have anything that would question Olsen’s truthfulness but he has an ongoing concern about the statement of Tammy Daybell making the comment about upping her life insurance before retirement. “There wasn’t any real context in the trial about facts of when she was retiring, if it was any time in the near future,” Boyce says.
8:57 a.m. Wixom responds that he doesn’t appreciates Prior’s innuendo that Wixom has influenced the witness. Wixom says he was honest with Prior and respectfully told him what had happened. Wixom says there was nothing that prohibited Prior from reaching out to the witness and getting her version of events and Prior never did.
8:55 a.m. Prior argues against having Olsen testifying and says “over the four day weekend, Mr. Wixom preps the witness” and claims her testimony changed. “There are too many uncertainties here…We do know after reviewing Emma’s testimony, the light suddenly came on.” Prior says there are a number of red flags here and it’s unclear what else Olsen could say.
8:54 a.m. Boyce asks Wixom if Olsen watched the previous motion in limine hearing about her situation. Wixom says he’s unsure if she watched it but she was made aware of the court’s ruling.
8:51 a.m. Wixom says Olsen has listened to Emma Daybell’s testimony because she was released from her subpoena. Wixom says they can keep questioning very narrow and does not believe Olsen has been tainted. Olsen candidly said she has been watching the trial and listened to Emma’s testimony so Wixom says she can be trusted.
8:48 a.m. Wixom says the issue concerns a witness named Janice Olsen. Olsen heard Tammy Daybell say she wanted her husband to raise her life insurance. She was having lunch at school with Tammy a month before Tammy died and during the lunch, the issue of life insurance was raised. Tammy said her husband wanted her to increase her life insurance.
8:47 a.m. Boyce says we are concluding with evidence and rebuttal witnesses today. An issue has been raised regarding a proposed witness so there will be a motion about the matter. Fremont County Dep. Prosecuting Attorney will argue the issue.

ETA I see the confusion now as I said the jury heard it - I think I must have meant that the jury heard Emma's comment and that this witness did too and wanted to mention what Tammy had said to her. Sorry for any confusion.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Tresir said:
Yeah Tammy's friend who commented about the insurance saying that Tammy had said Chad asked her to increase it and this was shortly before she was murdered.

This directly contradicts Emma's testimony that said Chad wasnt involved and also highlights that she lied because Chad signed it too right?

But they are not going to allow it in. I was answering and agreeing with your post about it.

She was a proposed rebuttal witness but they wouldn't let it in.

9:01 a.m. Olsen says there was a group of people present for the conversation but this isn’t information the defense knew before trial. The defense has not been able to verify who was at the table when the statement was apparently made. Boyce says limited the testimony down does not provide the jury with full context of the conversation. Boyce rules to exclude Janice Olsen from testifying further as a rebuttal witness.
9 a.m. Boyce says he doesn’t have anything that would question Olsen’s truthfulness but he has an ongoing concern about the statement of Tammy Daybell making the comment about upping her life insurance before retirement. “There wasn’t any real context in the trial about facts of when she was retiring, if it was any time in the near future,” Boyce says.
8:57 a.m. Wixom responds that he doesn’t appreciates Prior’s innuendo that Wixom has influenced the witness. Wixom says he was honest with Prior and respectfully told him what had happened. Wixom says there was nothing that prohibited Prior from reaching out to the witness and getting her version of events and Prior never did.
8:55 a.m. Prior argues against having Olsen testifying and says “over the four day weekend, Mr. Wixom preps the witness” and claims her testimony changed. “There are too many uncertainties here…We do know after reviewing Emma’s testimony, the light suddenly came on.” Prior says there are a number of red flags here and it’s unclear what else Olsen could say.
8:54 a.m. Boyce asks Wixom if Olsen watched the previous motion in limine hearing about her situation. Wixom says he’s unsure if she watched it but she was made aware of the court’s ruling.
8:51 a.m. Wixom says Olsen has listened to Emma Daybell’s testimony because she was released from her subpoena. Wixom says they can keep questioning very narrow and does not believe Olsen has been tainted. Olsen candidly said she has been watching the trial and listened to Emma’s testimony so Wixom says she can be trusted.
8:48 a.m. Wixom says the issue concerns a witness named Janice Olsen. Olsen heard Tammy Daybell say she wanted her husband to raise her life insurance. She was having lunch at school with Tammy a month before Tammy died and during the lunch, the issue of life insurance was raised. Tammy said her husband wanted her to increase her life insurance.
8:47 a.m. Boyce says we are concluding with evidence and rebuttal witnesses today. An issue has been raised regarding a proposed witness so there will be a motion about the matter. Fremont County Dep. Prosecuting Attorney will argue the issue.

Yeah by the end of my reply to you it became clear you likely meant her. I think I had that Haunted House guy in my head as "friend" and thought you were talking rebuttal by him and then talking of her with rebuttal. I think she was just in my head as "coworker" more than friend so by friend I thought you were talking of the other thing... Anywho.... Sorry, I just didn't get that at first.

I think it's outrageous Prior almost accused Wixom of prepping the witness and/or changing her testimony. She DID testify in the main trial or no, do you recall?

I HATE to say this but if she only claimed to recall this after hearing something and watching the trial, Boyce probably made the right decision... Why would you forget such a thing and/or only bring it up at that point? IF that's how it came about, it isn't totally clear.

On the other hand, WHEN it is said that other people were at lunch, if that could have been proven and those other women recall it, THEN it seems I think it changes it and perhaps it should have been allowed in. Of course I prefer it had been other than I wouldn't want any win on appeal. This is all so unclear, it says defense didn't know this information before trial and was not able to verify who was at the table, meaning they tried or didn't know about it at all. Clear as mud.

Also state is allowed to rebut defense and Emma lied and which caused the need for rebuttal...

BUT if she ONLY recall this after listening to Emma's testimony, again I hate to say it, but that IS kind of sketchy...

I wish she could have testified in rebuttal but I do THINK jury caught all these things anyhow and it will stand on its own well enough... Emma's obvious lies for instance I mean and more.

This also all was not argued in the front of the jury I'm sure, no?

And surely they were not told to ignore her testimony given during the main portion of trial? Seems to me she did testify in that part to some things. Health maybe?

I think it is going to be guilty on all counts. Not just going with my feelings but all I think the jury could see in this case and what was shown in the case and obvious. I think they will be back within the first full day of deliberations if not sooner. Of course there is always the chance there will be one odd one out that can't see it but I doubt it. Prosecution proved their case and defense gave them nothing and in fact I think the kids' testimony only reinforces how Chad controls the people around him. Emma was like some major robotic monotoned influenced unemotional subject of a cult leader... Seriously. Never have I heard anyone sound as she did throughout.

It is going to be really strange when this is over. We've "lived" this case for so long and there's been so much to it all. Of course it is not over with Lori still having trials coming up but it will be as far as both put away and never getting out and in Chad's case OR getting death. It's been a long time coming. And the other with Lori could take several years yet, hard to say. They're not on a speedy trial thing in that one and I suspect they will never ask for one as it will keep her in county for longer, the longer it is delayed. Just my guess...As opposed to prison...

Kimster · May 29, 2024

RoundPeg said:
But the Mormons think its 144K of them. I think Jehovah Witnesses believe the same?

I do believe that the Bible says the 144K are going to be sons of Abraham - known as Jewish today

ETA: i’m slow to the table. I see you guys already ironed all that out.

Tresir · May 29, 2024

Kimster said:
I do believe that the Bible says the 144K are going to be sons of Abraham - known as Jewish today

ETA: i’m slow to the table. I see you guys already ironed all that out.

Yeah, the Mormons don't get all the spaces, that's for sure.

Kimster · May 29, 2024

Been following Nate Eaton's tweets outlining the prosecution's closing arguments. Even though I've heard all of this time and time again, it still makes me sick, sad, and angry.

kdg411 · May 29, 2024

Verdict watch

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Tresir said:
Yeah, the Mormons don't get all the spaces, that's for sure.

See, they think themselves supreme just as Chad and Lori named selves to be the LEADERS of such and all are better than those who are not Mormon and get all the spaces. In their opinion. And the church's. THEIR church's. Not mine.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Kimster said:
Been following Nate Eaton's tweets outlining the prosecution's closing arguments. Even though I've heard all of this time and time again, it still makes me sick, sad, and angry.

It does make one sick and angry and disgusted and so heartbroken at what all the victims suffered due to these monsters. One gets away from the thought at times since we can direct our anger at Lori and Chad etc. and can engage our thoughts in trying to figure out where, which ones, what time and such in so many darned events and murders relating to them but in these cases and those of almost all we follow, at the heart and bottom of it is always some horrible murder and some intentional eviil and victims who suffered and in this case were also betrayed. Betrayal. LORI was their MOM. Tammy was CHAD'S WIFE for decades, the mother of his children.

. I haven't watched yet but intend to watch both closings, Priors will be hard to suffer through I'm sure. I saw about ten minutes of it at lunch. Hit Linda and his was on at the time. Haven't read Nate's Tweets but for closings I am going to watch even if after the fact. I expected to see a bunch of posts here today about closings, what everyone thought, it going to jury watch, etc. and checked at break, and very little. Tresir must be tied up with other things but know she will be here as she has been awesome at providing alll the Tweets throughout and that is like most of the rest, what I've had to rely on was Nate's Tweets and then nightly recaps by him and Linda. She hasn't been doing many or they aren't coming up for me but she does stay on with viewers live all day every day and watch the trial.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

kdg411 said:
Verdict watch

From what Nate said, this jury can go as long as they want, as late as the want and I believe even come in weekends if they want and so on. He said what happened in Lori's which I think he said was the same. They did a few hours on the first day (like this one) and then went home. Next day they went at it and had a verdict. I think someone said total hours equaled seven. I expect similar in this one, not long imo. Not past tomorrow. There are other things I guess to a point and more of a defense was given than Lori's but not a great one imo. Of course Nate hopes for tomorrow as he will be leaving for Crime Con but I do think it quite likely. If it goes one day past, I won't be worried yet but will be if it goes to afternoon or all day and for sure will be if it goes into yet another.

I need to listen to closings for my final feel on the cases presented and how good closings were. I think prosecution did a great job, the evidence is all there and Prior didn't do much or have much and the kids didn't help. All he did or tried to was put some doubt or other possibilities in there and all they can hope for is one imo and I don't think that will happen.

I'm confident Chad is going to be found guilty. I can't know, but I trust that he is going to be.

kdg411 · May 29, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
From what Nate said, this jury can go as long as they want, as late as the want and I believe even come in weekends if they want and so on. He said what happened in Lori's which I think he said was the same. They did a few hours on the first day (like this one) and then went home. Next day they went at it and had a verdict. I think someone said total hours equaled seven. I expect similar in this one, not long imo. Not past tomorrow. There are other things I guess to a point and more of a defense was given than Lori's but not a great one imo. Of course Nate hopes for tomorrow as he will be leaving for Crime Con but I do think it quite likely. If it goes one day past, I won't be worried yet but will be if it goes to afternoon or all day and for sure will be if it goes into yet another.

I need to listen to closings for my final feel on the cases presented and how good closings were. I think prosecution did a great job, the evidence is all there and Prior didn't do much or have much and the kids didn't help. All he did or tried to was put some doubt or other possibilities in there and all they can hope for is one imo and I don't think that will happen.

I'm confident Chad is going to be found guilty. I can't know, but I trust that he is going to be.

Prior put on a slide show & basically said that light/dark is common in traditional lds and Chad had every right to oractice his religious teachings. He did stress MG wasn't questioned or looked into enough. Blah, blah, blah

The prosecution wove the story together in a nice bow though.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

kdg411 said:
Prior put on a slide show & basically said that light/dark is common in traditional lds and Chad had every right to oractice his religious teachings. He did stress MG wasn't questioned or looked into enough. Blah, blah, blah

The prosecution wove the story together in a nice bow though.

Good to know. That would have been an educated guess, that prosecution did great and he was blah blah lol. Couldn't have predicted the slide show but the light and dark and MG isn't a huge surprise. It is going to be hard to suffer through his but I intend to try and then see the State's last time up after that. Were they long? Hour each? Less, more?

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Well I was sitting through Linda's as I know in between talking she will have had all the closings live and then Nate came on live and so I switched and haven't watched clsoingsi yet. I NEVER get to see lives these days. Just five minutes in, here he is if anyone is interested about today and his nightly recap.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

he's in front of the courthouse. people were leaving like detectives and such from the case even this late in the day.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Jurors are STILL deliberating yet tonight. Haven't even called for dinner yet if I have it right...

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Lol Nate interviewed someone who attended today and she guessed tomorrow for a verdict but said because of Nate having to leave but her actual guess she committed to is Friday before lunch at 11:02 throwing out a random time lol. She's wrong. Juries ALWAYS get lunch first if that close to it and decided. They decided and if near lunch time, the order lunch and relax and have it and then announce they have a verdict. It happened in ours and I SAW the signs. No one believed me lol. I have seen it in several. She might be right about Friday BUT it will be far earlier OR they will get lunch first... Jmo.

GrandmaBear · May 29, 2024

Jury has ended deliberations for the night. Nate did another show. Haven't watched it yet but started about 45 minutes ago so guessing that's when they ended. I am going to guess they ended at a point they felt good about or were just tired lol. Hard to say. I am listening to the outstanding closing by Lindsey Blake. My God do I have a lot to say about it. Not done yet. So haven't watched Nate's new one. I sure don't even want to listen to Prior after hearing hers....

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

Well-known member

Well-known member

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Well-known member

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Administrator

Well-known member

Administrator

Administrator

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Administrator

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter

Forum statistics

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY