LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Very frustrating. I was reading on X this morning and so many interpretations. I try to find different sources because there is no way one person is getting it word for word. Agh.
I know the best I've found and I'm staying there. More or less done with news. If I have to read something for no time to get even a glimpse of a recap, I will but that's it. If I have to watch all after verdict one day, I will for not being able to keep up with Tom's for instance. I've accepted it may come to that to get the truest version but some of it may be afterit is over for me. Shall see.

The coverage is all over the place and not impressed,

And I know I'm beating a dead drum or however, it goes... Horse? But Gull has done a REAL disservice here to everyone and not just us but the families, the defendant, to all as it's difficult to know what the true picture is.

I didn't watch much Tom last night so am behind but last I knew he is keeping up with almost every question and answer but is really tiring and also unsure if he's decided to see it out or not. And I mean one can SEE the tired.

I hope everyone can see that I can be anti-Gull LOL.

She also is not seemingly shutting the D down from inserting false facts into questions and basically testifying themselves...But perhaps the P isn't objecting enough to such either.

It may backfire I guess for the D not a good look for those who realize what they're doing...

I hope I never see another trail covered in this way or should I say NOT covered, recorded, tweeted, or anything. No matter how things turn out, I'll never change my tune on that or Gull's decisions with that. It's a really bad look especially with what has gone on here and the doubts and things people try to make into a big conspiracy, why would you do that... It just adds ot such thoughts and distrust.

Well that's my take at the moment and I'm really pushing it for time here and need to get moving.
 
So I what exactly is your thought of him being there to school being out? I mean that's been speculated for sure yes. Do you think he was looking for any girl? Two girls? Certain age? Or was waiting for ones he could trap at the end of the bridge who actually went onto the bridge? That last part I believe his plan was to walk across when they were cornered and chase whoever down the hill. I do tend to think he knew and intended on these two but no way to be sure of that... Do you think if two of the four girls had separated and crossed the bridge, they'd have been the ones he'd have went after...?

I figure there's a good chance he knew school was out BUT I also was thinking for some reason his daughter was about Kelsi's age and in high school herself so then of course he'd have known. Recently though I saw she was a young adult and now wonder which is correct.
My thought about school was just that if he was looking for a minor, then with school out, he'd probably think it's likely that minors would be out there.
I do think he was well aware of young people crossing that bridge and the it may very well have been the scenario he was watching out for but since there was no one else on the trail, I think he may have abducted them regardless from the trail side of the creek.
 
Wasn't it Lori Vallow Daybell's trial where the previous day's transcripts could be purchased? I think Nate and other outlets split the cost.

Are the transcripts available in Delphi?
I dont' know that it was purchased...? Maybe. But yes, the court would put it out after making sure it was okay to be put out. Like nothing that should have been not in there in there, etc. meaning side bars and such. And probably playing safe as to media and jury, it would at first be almost two days later sometimes I think and as it got into the swing of things generally a day later or that evening.

Gull could CERTAINLY have done something like that. OR reporters could type but only Tweet out at lunch, etc. and so on.
 
My thought about school was just that if he was looking for a minor, then with school out, he'd probably think it's likely that minors would be out there.
I do think he was well aware of young people crossing that bridge and the it may very well have been the scenario he was watching out for but since there was no one else on the trail, I think he may have abducted them regardless from the trail side of the creek.
The day off is certainly plausible and it was a nice day and all knew it was likely to be, etc. and a day off. It sounds almost like a rite of passage some of have made me it sound hat a kid crosses that bridge at some age... WE know Abby's mother forbid her to ever do so but there she was doing it at 13...I'm torn on whether he was looking for any girl/girls... I tend to think he was after them but it's just a gut instinct. And I tend to think somehow, not sure how, he knew they were going or going to try to be allowed to go. I do think his intent was to trap on the bridge with no way for the prey to come back as he was coming towards them and the intent was to go down the hill whether they were the intended ones or whether it would have been any young girl who went to the bridge...

Jmo.
 
The day off is certainly plausible and it was a nice day and all knew it was likely to be, etc. and a day off. It sounds almost like a rite of passage some of have made me it sound hat a kid crosses that bridge at some age... WE know Abby's mother forbid her to ever do so but there she was doing it at 13...I'm torn on whether he was looking for any girl/girls... I tend to think he was after them but it's just a gut instinct. And I tend to think somehow, not sure how, he knew they were going or going to try to be allowed to go. I do think his intent was to trap on the bridge with no way for the prey to come back as he was coming towards them and the intent was to go down the hill whether they were the intended ones or whether it would have been any young girl who went to the bridge...

Jmo.
I think the only indication that he may have known they'd be there is that he'd arrived shortly before they did but apart from that, I just don't know of any evidence that he did know and I'm all the time marveling at coincidence and so those two reasons (mainly, no evidence) are why I think the timing is merely coincidental.
 
Ok basically getting ready for the showing of the Holeman interviews on Monday, I have found this article that has a transcript of one of them, the one that preceded the arrest. The nasty detective swore at him. AFAICS RA deserved it. RA admitted several important facts in this interview that gave them probable cause for the arrest.


‘You’re going down for this’ Allen defense claims police were abusive during interview

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen is escorted Oct. 31, 2023, in the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Indiana. (WISH Photo)

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen is escorted Oct. 31, 2023, in the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Indiana. (WISH Photo)
by: Jason Ronimous
Posted: Apr 15, 2024 / 05:09 PM EST / Updated: Apr 15, 2024 / 05:13 PM EST
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Attorneys for the man accused in the Delphi killings filed a motion Monday to suppress Richard Allen’s second statement to police.
Richard Allen is charged for the murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German.

According to Allen, there were issues with the second interrogation conducted by Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman.
The defense has accused Holeman of creating a ruse in order to get Allen to the State Police Post in West Lafayette in order to interrogate and arrest Allen.
One of Allen’s vehicles was seized by the State Police in October of 2022, and Allen and his wife called the State Police to inquire as to when they could get the vehicle back. Allen and his attorneys allege the State Police arranged a meeting to pick up the vehicle, and in turn used the meeting as an additional interrogation and used it to facilitate his arrest. The car was never returned to Allen or his wife.
Instead of returning the vehicle, Jerry Holeman said he wanted to clear up a few things with Allen and requested Allen to follow him to the interrogation room without his wife.
Allen’s attorneys say this interrogation was videotaped, but that the first portion of the video was missing, including any reading of Miranda rights, and confirming that the suspect is free to leave, if the suspect is indeed free to leave.
This video is no longer available

There was an issue with the media playback engine. The sub-error code will contain additional information about the underlying cause. | UNKNOWN encountered, code: 1000
The defense claims that Allen was never read his Miranda rights and that he was placed in a “tiny, confined room without windows,” with the door shut.


ALLEN CLAIMS STATE POLICE CONDUCTED UNCONSTITUTIONAL INTERROGATION.

During the interrogation, Allen says that Jerry Holeman said things like “sit tight” and “hang on one second”, leading Allen to believe he was not free to leave.
Allen’s attorneys claim that during this interrogation, Holeman became abusive and lied about evidence the state had.
According to the motion, Holeman told Allen “We have experts that say that’s you on the bridge and
that’s your voice on the video,” “Experts are saying that’s you on the video” and “Experts are
saying you said “Down the Hill.”
The defense also said Holeman told Allen that witnesses saw a gun in his pocket and “I’m not lying to you
about anything. Everything I’m telling you is fact. The experts say you said ‘go down the hill’.”
Allen says Holeman became more aggressive, used profanity and ‘barked’ at Allen, saying “the prosecutor and the other investigators…they want to see you…lock you up and throwaway the key,” “If you don’t tell me, you’re going down for this.”
Allen’s attorneys allege that Holeman conducted an accusatory interrogation instead of an exploratory interrogation, as the prosecution claimed.


ALLEN’S ATTORNEYS CLAIM STATE POLICE CONDUCTED ABUSIVE INTERROGATION.

Richard Allen claims the following exchanges took place in the October 2022 interrogation:
Jerry Holeman: You’re going to drag your (expletive) wife and your daughter through this because you’re too (expletive) bullheaded to get out in front of this and admit you made a mistake. And whatever the
(expletive) happened out there we’ll never (expletive) know because you’re too big of a (expletive) (inaudible). The evidence clearly indicates you are involved in this.
Rick Allen: No.
Jerry Holeman: It (expletive) does.
Rick Allen: It doesn’t. I’m telling you that there is no way that a bullet from my gun was
used in these murders.
Jerry Holeman: And I’m telling you that we had this (expletive) round on February 14, 2017, and it’s been secured in a (expletive) laboratory, and we’ve tested other guns…
Rick Allen: You could have taken it from somewhere else then, because it’s not
possible.
Jerry Holeman: I did not take it from somewhere else. It was logged in. It was taken. It was photographed. You think we (expletive) took a round and threw it down by the dead girl’s foot? This ain’t (expletive) TV.
This is realistic.
Rick Allen: I’m telling you I can’t explain something that…
Jerry Holeman: And I’m telling you that (expletive) analysts explain it. You can’t get past
this.
Jerry Holeman: I’m not on video
Rick Allen: Neither am I.
Jerry Holeman: Four or five witnesses didn’t see me out there.
Rick Allen: Me either.
Jerry Holeman: My round out of my gun wasn’t 6 inches away from a dead girl.
Rick Allen: Mine neither.
Jerry Holeman: I don’t think you’re a bad person.
Rick Allen: What kind of good person kills two people?
Rick Allen: You’re gonna pay for what you’ve done to my wife. You want to (expletive) with me,
(expletive) with me but you leave my wife out of this. (Expletive.) Leave me out of this.
Jerry Holeman: No. You’re involved in this. Your (expletive) round is there Rick.
Rick Allen: No. It’s not.
Jerry Holeman: You’re guilty of something. You’re guilty and I know it.


ALLEN SAYS HE WAS ARRESTED AFTER THESE INTERROGATIONS.


Allen’s attorneys say he was handcuffed and arrested hours later and are requesting that the court suppress all statements made by Allen in the interrogation on Oct. 26, 2022 and find that Holeman and the State Police violated his constitutional rights.


TRENDING STORIES

 
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I didn't watch it as the last I watched of them I was not okay with. But why shouldn't they see every recorded thing there is that exists? I myself am WAITING for what's recorded. Like the confessions to wife. Recordings are solid record. And I'd add all I have of that in the case. Even if police tactics, bluffing, etc. were used, most know that's allowed.

Why do you think there's no point?

It isn't often we differ in this case but I kind of differ with you there. The only ones that ever wanted it thrown out was the D and then they changed their tune.
I didn't say there's no point - I am asking what is the point of watching them in court. Eg do the D think it was unconstitutional, unfair, illegal or what exactly? LE are quite within their rights to question a suspected murderer. He did not have to answer anything he didn't want to. He could have demanded a lawyer, asked for a friend or his wife there etc etc.
 
Ok basically getting ready for the showing of the Holeman interviews on Monday, I have found this article that has a transcript of one of them, the one that preceded the arrest. The nasty detective swore at him. AFAICS RA deserved it. RA admitted several important facts in this interview that gave them probable cause for the arrest.


‘You’re going down for this’ Allen defense claims police were abusive during interview

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen is escorted Oct. 31, 2023, in the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Indiana. (WISH Photo)

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen is escorted Oct. 31, 2023, in the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Indiana. (WISH Photo)
by: Jason Ronimous
Posted: Apr 15, 2024 / 05:09 PM EST / Updated: Apr 15, 2024 / 05:13 PM EST
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Attorneys for the man accused in the Delphi killings filed a motion Monday to suppress Richard Allen’s second statement to police.
Richard Allen is charged for the murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German.

According to Allen, there were issues with the second interrogation conducted by Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman.
The defense has accused Holeman of creating a ruse in order to get Allen to the State Police Post in West Lafayette in order to interrogate and arrest Allen.
One of Allen’s vehicles was seized by the State Police in October of 2022, and Allen and his wife called the State Police to inquire as to when they could get the vehicle back. Allen and his attorneys allege the State Police arranged a meeting to pick up the vehicle, and in turn used the meeting as an additional interrogation and used it to facilitate his arrest. The car was never returned to Allen or his wife.
Instead of returning the vehicle, Jerry Holeman said he wanted to clear up a few things with Allen and requested Allen to follow him to the interrogation room without his wife.
Allen’s attorneys say this interrogation was videotaped, but that the first portion of the video was missing, including any reading of Miranda rights, and confirming that the suspect is free to leave, if the suspect is indeed free to leave.
This video is no longer available

There was an issue with the media playback engine. The sub-error code will contain additional information about the underlying cause. | UNKNOWN encountered, code: 1000
The defense claims that Allen was never read his Miranda rights and that he was placed in a “tiny, confined room without windows,” with the door shut.


ALLEN CLAIMS STATE POLICE CONDUCTED UNCONSTITUTIONAL INTERROGATION.

During the interrogation, Allen says that Jerry Holeman said things like “sit tight” and “hang on one second”, leading Allen to believe he was not free to leave.
Allen’s attorneys claim that during this interrogation, Holeman became abusive and lied about evidence the state had.
According to the motion, Holeman told Allen “We have experts that say that’s you on the bridge and
that’s your voice on the video,” “Experts are saying that’s you on the video” and “Experts are
saying you said “Down the Hill.”
The defense also said Holeman told Allen that witnesses saw a gun in his pocket and “I’m not lying to you
about anything. Everything I’m telling you is fact. The experts say you said ‘go down the hill’.”
Allen says Holeman became more aggressive, used profanity and ‘barked’ at Allen, saying “the prosecutor and the other investigators…they want to see you…lock you up and throwaway the key,” “If you don’t tell me, you’re going down for this.”
Allen’s attorneys allege that Holeman conducted an accusatory interrogation instead of an exploratory interrogation, as the prosecution claimed.


ALLEN’S ATTORNEYS CLAIM STATE POLICE CONDUCTED ABUSIVE INTERROGATION.

Richard Allen claims the following exchanges took place in the October 2022 interrogation:
Jerry Holeman: You’re going to drag your (expletive) wife and your daughter through this because you’re too (expletive) bullheaded to get out in front of this and admit you made a mistake. And whatever the
(expletive) happened out there we’ll never (expletive) know because you’re too big of a (expletive) (inaudible). The evidence clearly indicates you are involved in this.
Rick Allen: No.
Jerry Holeman: It (expletive) does.
Rick Allen: It doesn’t. I’m telling you that there is no way that a bullet from my gun was
used in these murders.
Jerry Holeman: And I’m telling you that we had this (expletive) round on February 14, 2017, and it’s been secured in a (expletive) laboratory, and we’ve tested other guns…
Rick Allen: You could have taken it from somewhere else then, because it’s not
possible.
Jerry Holeman: I did not take it from somewhere else. It was logged in. It was taken. It was photographed. You think we (expletive) took a round and threw it down by the dead girl’s foot? This ain’t (expletive) TV.
This is realistic.
Rick Allen: I’m telling you I can’t explain something that…
Jerry Holeman: And I’m telling you that (expletive) analysts explain it. You can’t get past
this.
Jerry Holeman: I’m not on video
Rick Allen: Neither am I.
Jerry Holeman: Four or five witnesses didn’t see me out there.
Rick Allen: Me either.
Jerry Holeman: My round out of my gun wasn’t 6 inches away from a dead girl.
Rick Allen: Mine neither.
Jerry Holeman: I don’t think you’re a bad person.
Rick Allen: What kind of good person kills two people?
Rick Allen: You’re gonna pay for what you’ve done to my wife. You want to (expletive) with me,
(expletive) with me but you leave my wife out of this. (Expletive.) Leave me out of this.
Jerry Holeman: No. You’re involved in this. Your (expletive) round is there Rick.
Rick Allen: No. It’s not.
Jerry Holeman: You’re guilty of something. You’re guilty and I know it.


ALLEN SAYS HE WAS ARRESTED AFTER THESE INTERROGATIONS.


Allen’s attorneys say he was handcuffed and arrested hours later and are requesting that the court suppress all statements made by Allen in the interrogation on Oct. 26, 2022 and find that Holeman and the State Police violated his constitutional rights.


TRENDING STORIES


Well, that missing video would have told us if that's true. Unfortunately, it was taped over.
 
I think the only indication that he may have known they'd be there is that he'd arrived shortly before they did but apart from that, I just don't know of any evidence that he did know and I'm all the time marveling at coincidence and so those two reasons (mainly, no evidence) are why I think the timing is merely coincidental.
It certainly could be coincidental, certainly not arguing it as we can't know, but I do think he went there intending to find victims and fulfill his sick fantasy, ready, packed, somewhat disguised/overdressed...

We may never know unless in the motive he gave in some of the confessions is truth and tells why, and why them.
 
Ok basically getting ready for the showing of the Holeman interviews on Monday, I have found this article that has a transcript of one of them, the one that preceded the arrest. The nasty detective swore at him. AFAICS RA deserved it. RA admitted several important facts in this interview that gave them probable cause for the arrest.


‘You’re going down for this’ Allen defense claims police were abusive during interview

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen is escorted Oct. 31, 2023, in the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Indiana. (WISH Photo)

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen is escorted Oct. 31, 2023, in the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Indiana. (WISH Photo)
by: Jason Ronimous
Posted: Apr 15, 2024 / 05:09 PM EST / Updated: Apr 15, 2024 / 05:13 PM EST
INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Attorneys for the man accused in the Delphi killings filed a motion Monday to suppress Richard Allen’s second statement to police.
Richard Allen is charged for the murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German.

According to Allen, there were issues with the second interrogation conducted by Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holeman.
The defense has accused Holeman of creating a ruse in order to get Allen to the State Police Post in West Lafayette in order to interrogate and arrest Allen.
One of Allen’s vehicles was seized by the State Police in October of 2022, and Allen and his wife called the State Police to inquire as to when they could get the vehicle back. Allen and his attorneys allege the State Police arranged a meeting to pick up the vehicle, and in turn used the meeting as an additional interrogation and used it to facilitate his arrest. The car was never returned to Allen or his wife.
Instead of returning the vehicle, Jerry Holeman said he wanted to clear up a few things with Allen and requested Allen to follow him to the interrogation room without his wife.
Allen’s attorneys say this interrogation was videotaped, but that the first portion of the video was missing, including any reading of Miranda rights, and confirming that the suspect is free to leave, if the suspect is indeed free to leave.
This video is no longer available

There was an issue with the media playback engine. The sub-error code will contain additional information about the underlying cause. | UNKNOWN encountered, code: 1000
The defense claims that Allen was never read his Miranda rights and that he was placed in a “tiny, confined room without windows,” with the door shut.


ALLEN CLAIMS STATE POLICE CONDUCTED UNCONSTITUTIONAL INTERROGATION.

During the interrogation, Allen says that Jerry Holeman said things like “sit tight” and “hang on one second”, leading Allen to believe he was not free to leave.
Allen’s attorneys claim that during this interrogation, Holeman became abusive and lied about evidence the state had.
According to the motion, Holeman told Allen “We have experts that say that’s you on the bridge and
that’s your voice on the video,” “Experts are saying that’s you on the video” and “Experts are
saying you said “Down the Hill.”
The defense also said Holeman told Allen that witnesses saw a gun in his pocket and “I’m not lying to you
about anything. Everything I’m telling you is fact. The experts say you said ‘go down the hill’.”
Allen says Holeman became more aggressive, used profanity and ‘barked’ at Allen, saying “the prosecutor and the other investigators…they want to see you…lock you up and throwaway the key,” “If you don’t tell me, you’re going down for this.”
Allen’s attorneys allege that Holeman conducted an accusatory interrogation instead of an exploratory interrogation, as the prosecution claimed.


ALLEN’S ATTORNEYS CLAIM STATE POLICE CONDUCTED ABUSIVE INTERROGATION.

Richard Allen claims the following exchanges took place in the October 2022 interrogation:
Jerry Holeman: You’re going to drag your (expletive) wife and your daughter through this because you’re too (expletive) bullheaded to get out in front of this and admit you made a mistake. And whatever the
(expletive) happened out there we’ll never (expletive) know because you’re too big of a (expletive) (inaudible). The evidence clearly indicates you are involved in this.
Rick Allen: No.
Jerry Holeman: It (expletive) does.
Rick Allen: It doesn’t. I’m telling you that there is no way that a bullet from my gun was
used in these murders.
Jerry Holeman: And I’m telling you that we had this (expletive) round on February 14, 2017, and it’s been secured in a (expletive) laboratory, and we’ve tested other guns…
Rick Allen: You could have taken it from somewhere else then, because it’s not
possible.
Jerry Holeman: I did not take it from somewhere else. It was logged in. It was taken. It was photographed. You think we (expletive) took a round and threw it down by the dead girl’s foot? This ain’t (expletive) TV.
This is realistic.
Rick Allen: I’m telling you I can’t explain something that…
Jerry Holeman: And I’m telling you that (expletive) analysts explain it. You can’t get past
this.
Jerry Holeman: I’m not on video
Rick Allen: Neither am I.
Jerry Holeman: Four or five witnesses didn’t see me out there.
Rick Allen: Me either.
Jerry Holeman: My round out of my gun wasn’t 6 inches away from a dead girl.
Rick Allen: Mine neither.
Jerry Holeman: I don’t think you’re a bad person.
Rick Allen: What kind of good person kills two people?
Rick Allen: You’re gonna pay for what you’ve done to my wife. You want to (expletive) with me,
(expletive) with me but you leave my wife out of this. (Expletive.) Leave me out of this.
Jerry Holeman: No. You’re involved in this. Your (expletive) round is there Rick.
Rick Allen: No. It’s not.
Jerry Holeman: You’re guilty of something. You’re guilty and I know it.


ALLEN SAYS HE WAS ARRESTED AFTER THESE INTERROGATIONS.


Allen’s attorneys say he was handcuffed and arrested hours later and are requesting that the court suppress all statements made by Allen in the interrogation on Oct. 26, 2022 and find that Holeman and the State Police violated his constitutional rights.


TRENDING STORIES

I was going to say Gull already ruled on this but then I recall they pulled at least one motion back was it for both interviews or just this one...? Which was odd really, the D never quits and just keeps going for all to be excluded, dismissed, you name it...

This transcript rings a lot of bells but I don't know that I recall the constant sass by RA, repeating the same thing almost back to Holeman or of I saw it all or not. My round wasn't six inches from the dead girl, and he says mine either, and sh*t like that throughout. Me either, mine either, etc. Like a copycat almost lol.
 
I didn't say there's no point - I am asking what is the point of watching them in court. Eg do the D think it was unconstitutional, unfair, illegal or what exactly? LE are quite within their rights to question a suspected murderer. He did not have to answer anything he didn't want to. He could have demanded a lawyer, asked for a friend or his wife there etc etc.
I'd say the P wants them for one reason and the D for another. And it's for the jury of course. I'd guess the D wants the jury to see that Rick was not mirandized on recording, that he was lied to IF indeed he was which I don't really see any evidence of at all, and so on and he hopes the jury feels sympathy AND hears RA repeatedly denying it could have been him on the bridge or his bullet...

Of interest to me is the voice comparison which comes up here with Holeman claiming experts said it was him saying Down the Hill. Well with the one I heard it WAS HIM and I have no doubts EVER since I heard it. It was sheer beautiful icing on the cake to me of his guilt.

I still am not entirely following you. I want every recording heard in court. If you mean re the D, I don't know that they can go too far with illegal or unconstitutional in this setting but maybe intend to try, not sure.

I guess they could say to the jurors or a witness, do you see another partial recording this time was lost or not turned on and he was not Mirandized? However if you recall, he remains Miradnized for a length of time and it was in that length of time, etc. They claim the car thing was a ruse but is it they who called Rick and Kathy about the car or Rick and Kathy called wanting the car...? Don't know that it matters anyhow really. I guess the D can try whaever they are looking to. I'd again the D is not to be testifying to the witnesses or the jurors and inserting statements in their questions. OR false facts or things that are NOT fact. Fed up with it honestly and do not know why Gull has not put an end to it.
 
Well, that missing video would have told us if that's true. Unfortunately, it was taped over.
Not it wasn't, only a few minutes are missing at the start and that's it. The rest remains and is recorded and is one people will hear this week. Well we won't but others will. I looked at what you replied to in Tresir's post twice and that's the only interview she was talking about and so you aren't correct on this, that one was NOT taped over.
 
I'd say the P wants them for one reason and the D for another. And it's for the jury of course. I'd guess the D wants the jury to see that Rick was not mirandized on recording, that he was lied to IF indeed he was which I don't really see any evidence of at all, and so on and he hopes the jury feels sympathy AND hears RA repeatedly denying it could have been him on the bridge or his bullet...

Of interest to me is the voice comparison which comes up here with Holeman claiming experts said it was him saying Down the Hill. Well with the one I heard it WAS HIM and I have no doubts EVER since I heard it. It was sheer beautiful icing on the cake to me of his guilt.

I still am not entirely following you. I want every recording heard in court. If you mean re the D, I don't know that they can go too far with illegal or unconstitutional in this setting but maybe intend to try, not sure.

I guess they could say to the jurors or a witness, do you see another partial recording this time was lost or not turned on and he was not Mirandized? However if you recall, he remains Miradnized for a length of time and it was in that length of time, etc. They claim the car thing was a ruse but is it they who called Rick and Kathy about the car or Rick and Kathy called wanting the car...? Don't know that it matters anyhow really. I guess the D can try whaever they are looking to. I'd again the D is not to be testifying to the witnesses or the jurors and inserting statements in their questions. OR false facts or things that are NOT fact. Fed up with it honestly and do not know why Gull has not put an end to it.
Yes we discussed it previously and concluded he was covered by the miranda in the interview on the 13th. The D are claiming his constitutional rights were abused apparently. They called about the car and were told they could come and get it. Then they arrested him, the rotters.
 
The bullet is going to do it for him. It matches his gun and in this interview he admits not ever shooting there in those woods. So it could only have got there that day.
 
Yes we discussed it previously and concluded he was covered by the miranda in the interview on the 13th. The D are claiming his constitutional rights were abused apparently. They called about the car and were told they could come and get it. Then they arrested him, the rotters.
Well the jury can't make a ruling on whether his rights were violated, but I suppose they can try to get them to feel sorry for him or dismiss it the interview or get angry at LE for it. And yes, I think we concluded he is covered under the prior Miranda as did most "experts" out there.

As to the car, I say so what... Had he not said no one ever had his gun or clothing, he well may not have been arrested and been going home with the car for all anyone knows. And THEY called them. And honestly, with the bullet match they didn't need him to come to town, they could have went out and arrested him at any time, at work or at home, and could have tried to have another interview there first as well if so wanted.

I dont' see it as a big deal at all. The only thing I I really see is that Holeman did get not all nice cop with him and they're not required to be sweet either and we haven't heard it yet. Sounds to me like RA got sassy for that matter. Hard to tell tone though by reading a transcript.

But he's a murder suspect and by then they knew they had their guy and the bullet was a match and again could have I'm sure gotten a warrant and arrested him but it just so happened they called about the car.

Also did we wonder or was she allowed the car? Maybe we only discussed it and don't know, can't recall. Seems to me there was something about they didn't have two drivers then when she could have taken it as he was arrested. Wasn't that the only reason?

Again, none of it matters to me for the very reasons I just started. And so long as the P ensures the jury knows the rules it shouldn't to them either. Meaning covered under the Miranda in the time frame already, etc.
 
The bullet is going to do it for him. It matches his gun and in this interview he admits not ever shooting there in those woods. So it could only have got there that day.
The bullet and his placing himself there, never shooting it in those woods per his own words, and the fact it was there. The voice too is still coming imo.

And since the P is still on and not the D, I ASSUME it is the P playing he video this week? You said today, is it today? So they'll go first with the playing and questions. Probably of Holeman again since he was the interviewer.... Is my guess.
 
The video of his conversation with police. Now we know why they probably got rid of it.
They are playing the video. If you are talking about when he met the DNR guy at the grocery store, he never went to record anything and nothing went missing other than the tip. and notes, not any recording.

As to the ones that did go missing, they were recorded over of a few people yes because of the fact it was shut off. As I've said above though this did not benefit LE at all, I'm sure they'd rather they had them.

What is it you think RA would have said that would have benefited him today? I can't think of a thing. And alibi? Well then share it. He said he was innocent? Lol. He did things like he was wearing basically the same clothes as the man in the pic, owned the same things, etc...

WE are talking of the interview that IS recorded, so you either are not or are not making it clear what interview you are talking of imo. Please do so and what you think it would change?

Again it doesn't benefit them to have anything missing does it? I think just the opposite.

Also, again, you are unclear what you are talking of and you certainly are not talking of the same one we are which was recorded and does exist, are you?
 
I'm trying to finish one of Tom's. Haven't done all and kept up. About the video by Libby and how it sometimes went to the ground had to be stabilized, etc. Don't think this has been talked of a lot. Abby says is he right here to Libby apparently. Then don't leave me up here. Tom says he did the best he could hearing what he could and writing as fast as he could. So words may not be exact but quite approximate. I'll blame Gull for that yet again and this is from someone IN the courtroom. Then Libby said see, this is the path. then she whispered like "that be a gun".... Libby continued there's no path here, we have to go down here... then you hear "guys" and he thinks Libby says "hi"...

More to come but Tom started out by saying he estimated where Abby and BG were before then going into these words, etc... And he thought BG maybe 25 feet from Abby past platform six, tried to count railroad ties thought Abby ten from end and Libby... Of course we'd have to assume both kept walking as Tom is telling us the words...

Have we heard an account of all of this? It's chilling to me...

Stopping there will continue with the rest of what he has.

AGain I blame Gull for this all being so not perfectly clear. It is Liggett on the stand who said he watched and listened to this 100s of times of which I have absolutely no doubt they all did. So if I'm following this all correctly, these exchanges were between Libby and Abby as he got closer and closer... Because then she says "hi"...
 

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