LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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People are talking of a Jordan Sopher who was found dead by a creek not far from RA's mom's home. One person said she was a Libby lookalike...
 
This has details of the appeal and includes an alleged confession in jail from RL!!!! Personally i don't think it is anything when compared to the confessions by the convicted murderer.

A lot of detail of the other grounds in this article.


DELPHI, Ind. – Attorneys for convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen filed a flurry of documents this week suggesting their client’s murder conviction should be vacated.

In a 24-page motion to correct errors, Allen’s defense team takes aim at the murder timeline, the validity of Allen’s safekeeping order, a purported confession from a different suspect and disputed phone evidence.

COMPLETE COVERAGE | Delphi Murders Trial
On Nov. 11, a jury convicted Allen of murder in the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge. Special Judge Fran Gull sentenced him to 130 years in prison on Dec. 20.


His attorneys have maintained their client’s innocence and hammered the state on procedural issues throughout the duration of the case. They are planning to appeal.

Abby Williams and Libby German
13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German. (Credit: Family)

Safekeeping order, attorney dispute​

Of the safekeeping order, the attorneys note Allen was arrested on Oct. 26, 2022, after being questioned by Indiana State police investigator Jerry Holeman. Allen was held in jail under a pseudonym.

On Oct. 27, his wife hired an attorney named Brett Gibson to represent Allen. Gibson tried to contact Allen by phone but was told no one under that name was at the Carroll County Jail. He then contacted Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland, who arranged for Gibson to meet with Allen.

thumbnail_Richard-Allen_mugshot.jpg
Booking photo of Richard Allen. (Indiana State Police)
Around 10 p.m. on Oct. 27, Gibson advised Allen’s wife that he could not get Allen out of jail because he was being charged with murder. Allen was then moved to the White County Jail.

Allen mailed a letter from the jail on Nov. 1, 2022, stating he couldn’t afford an attorney, although the letter wasn’t filed until Nov. 9.

Juror in Delphi murders trial talks about historic case
The defense said the safekeeping order that placed Allen into the custody of the Indiana Department of Correction was “plainly illegal.” They said Allen was being held in the White County Jail while Tobe Leazenby, the Carroll County sheriff, requested the safekeeping order. But the White County sheriff, the defense contended, and not Leazenby, had the authority to request the safekeeping order.

In their view, Carroll County Circuit Judge Benjamin Diener lacked jurisdiction to approve Leazenby’s safekeeping request. The defense also argued Diener, who had approved the search warrant for Allen’s home in October, assisted Leazenby in drafting the safekeeping order and should have recused himself. Allen had the right for another judge to review and issue the safekeeping order.

The attorneys claim several procedural deficiencies with the safekeeping order and said Allen had “an absolute right” to refuse being transferred into state custody. The attorneys said the safekeeping order wasn’t served to Allen or Gibson, the attorney his wife had hired, and thus neither Allen nor Gibson had the opportunity to argue against his transfer.

Allen’s attorneys argue the state deprived Allen of constitutional rights afforded in the Sixth and Fourteenth amendments.

Van and timeline questions​

One of the key pieces of evidence used against Allen at trial was a confession in which he said a white van spooked him, leading him to panic and kill Abby Williams and Libby German.

The prosecution identified 2:32 p.m. as the moment when Libby German’s phone stopped moving. The prosecutor, McLeland, called it a “hard fact” that the phone stopped moving at that moment.

During a confession given to a prison psychologist, Allen said he abducted the girls on the Monon High Bridge and forced them down a hill. He claimed he was going to sexually assault the girls when he saw a white van heading down a nearby access road, causing him to panic and order the girls across the creek where he killed them.

The prosecution touted the white van as a detail “only the killer would know.” The driver of that van, Brad Weber, testified he drove past the murder scene around 2:30 p.m. on the way to his parents’ house.

Richard Allen sentenced to 130 years for Delphi murders
But the defense said surveillance video showed a van matching Weber’s heading north on the access road around 2:44 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017. That meant Weber couldn’t have passed the murder scene at 2:30 p.m. and would have arrived home at a time after 2:44 p.m.

Additionally, an FBI report indicated Weber’s phone first pinged his parents’ address at 2:50 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, reinforcing the timeline set out by the surveillance video.

The defense accused the state of presenting false information in court or failing to correct information it knew to be false. The state used Weber’s testimony to corroborate Allen’s confession to the prison psychologist.

If the state didn’t know about the surveillance video, the defense argued, then the video would constitute new evidence that would “probably produce a different result at a new trial.”

Ron Logan’s purported confession​

Ron Logan owned property where the girls were killed. In the early days of the investigation, he provided reporters with tours of the property and talked about the case and the search for the girls.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation also requested a search warrant for Logan’s property in March 2017, just weeks after the murders. The warrant indicated investigators wanted to search his home and outbuildings for anything related to the girls’ killings, including forensic evidence, digital devices, guns and cutting instruments.

The search was conducted on March 17, 2017. The FBI agent who wrote the warrant said Logan’s physical build was consistent with the “Bridge Guy” video taken from Libby German’s phone and his voice was “not inconsistent” with the person in the video. He had also concocted a false alibi.

Logan was never charged in connection with the Delphi case. He died in January 2022.

Defense attorneys maintain Richard Allen’s innocence
According to a tip from May 2017, Logan confessed to another inmate that he killed the girls. The inmate said Logan claimed he burned his clothes in a fire pit and feared drops of blood from his nose may have ended up on the girls’ clothes.

Police followed up on that tip and interviewed the inmate, Ricci Davis, at the New Castle Correctional Facility. An Indiana State Police first sergeant conducted the interview.

The investigator’s handwritten notes indicated Logan told Davis he was walking and talking with the girls about knowing one of their fathers. One of the girls wanted to turn around; Logan grabbed Abby’s shoulder, which caused Libby to freak out. One of the girls said something about calling the police.

Logan told Davis he was “paranoid” about a probation violation and felt like he “crossed a line” when he grabbed Abby. Logan asked the girls if they wanted to see some of his animals, including his horses. Libby didn’t want to go while Abby was open to the idea, especially of seeing the horses.

Eventually, this led to a scuffle, according to the inmate’s account, and Logan got hit in the nose. He pulled out a boxcutter and attacked Libby, cutting her throat. He said Abby was scared and he took her somewhere, although he didn’t say where. He eventually cut her neck, too, according to the inmate’s account.

Logan told the inmate he came back hours later and wanted to move Libby to an area where she wouldn’t be found. He burned his clothes in a burn pit along with boots, gloves and a bag.

The next morning, people showed up asking if they could search his property. Logan told them they could because it would’ve felt “weird if he said no.” He then contacted a family member and left the area.

In a handwritten note about Logan’s confession, Davis said Logan killed both girls because things went “too far,” and they all panicked when he grabbed Abby to reassure her that things were going to be okay.

Logan’s mention of boxcutters is notable because Dr. Roland Kohr, the forensic pathologist who conducted the girls’ autopsies, said during the trial that the girls could’ve been killed by a single boxcutter. His initial opinion was that two different weapons may have been used in the murders.

“Ron Logan’s confession exculpates Mr. Allen and would probably produce a different result at a retrial. Accordingly, the Court should either vacate Mr. Allen’s convictions or set this motion for a hearing,” the motion said.

Headphone jack evidence​

The fourth point raised in the motion concerns disputed evidence surrounding the headphone jack on Libby German’s phone.

During the trial, the defense called forensic expert Stacy Eldridge to the stand. She analyzed the data logs from the phone and said it appeared someone had plugged headphones into the auxiliary jack at 5:44 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and removed the headphones at 10:32 p.m. on the same day.

The information cast doubt on the state’s timeline. After learning about it, the state’s phone expert, ISP 1st Sgt. Chris Cecil, suggested dirt or water damage to the phone may have been responsible for the logged activity. Cecil had performed a Google search during a court break before offering his opinion.

The defense said it didn’t have the chance to counter Cecil’s determination during the trial.

According to Eldridge, nothing on Libby’s phone indicated there had been water damage. Photos of the phone didn’t show the phone was covered in water, dirt or other debris. She was “unaware of any scientific or technological research suggesting that water or dirt damage to an iPhone 6s would cause the phone to inaccurately log wired headphones in or wired headphones out.”

At no point during the trial did the state allege Allen returned to the murder scene. Were a jury to lend credence to Eldridge’s analysis, the state’s “narrative is impossible,” the defense wrote in the motion.

“Ms. Eldridge’s opinion that dirt or water could not have caused L.G.’s phone to log wired headphones being plugged into and being unplugged from the phone on February 13, 2017, exculpates Mr. Allen and would probably produce a different result at a new trial,” the motion said. “Accordingly, the Court should either vacate Mr. Allen’s convictions or set this motion for a hearing.”

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This has details of the appeal and includes an alleged confession in jail from RL!!!! Personally i don't think it is anything when compared to the confessions by the convicted murderer.

A lot of detail of the other grounds in this article.


DELPHI, Ind. – Attorneys for convicted Delphi murderer Richard Allen filed a flurry of documents this week suggesting their client’s murder conviction should be vacated.

In a 24-page motion to correct errors, Allen’s defense team takes aim at the murder timeline, the validity of Allen’s safekeeping order, a purported confession from a different suspect and disputed phone evidence.

COMPLETE COVERAGE | Delphi Murders Trial
On Nov. 11, a jury convicted Allen of murder in the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge. Special Judge Fran Gull sentenced him to 130 years in prison on Dec. 20.


His attorneys have maintained their client’s innocence and hammered the state on procedural issues throughout the duration of the case. They are planning to appeal.

Abby Williams and Libby German
13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German. (Credit: Family)

Safekeeping order, attorney dispute​

Of the safekeeping order, the attorneys note Allen was arrested on Oct. 26, 2022, after being questioned by Indiana State police investigator Jerry Holeman. Allen was held in jail under a pseudonym.

On Oct. 27, his wife hired an attorney named Brett Gibson to represent Allen. Gibson tried to contact Allen by phone but was told no one under that name was at the Carroll County Jail. He then contacted Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland, who arranged for Gibson to meet with Allen.

thumbnail_Richard-Allen_mugshot.jpg
Booking photo of Richard Allen. (Indiana State Police)
Around 10 p.m. on Oct. 27, Gibson advised Allen’s wife that he could not get Allen out of jail because he was being charged with murder. Allen was then moved to the White County Jail.

Allen mailed a letter from the jail on Nov. 1, 2022, stating he couldn’t afford an attorney, although the letter wasn’t filed until Nov. 9.

Juror in Delphi murders trial talks about historic case
The defense said the safekeeping order that placed Allen into the custody of the Indiana Department of Correction was “plainly illegal.” They said Allen was being held in the White County Jail while Tobe Leazenby, the Carroll County sheriff, requested the safekeeping order. But the White County sheriff, the defense contended, and not Leazenby, had the authority to request the safekeeping order.

In their view, Carroll County Circuit Judge Benjamin Diener lacked jurisdiction to approve Leazenby’s safekeeping request. The defense also argued Diener, who had approved the search warrant for Allen’s home in October, assisted Leazenby in drafting the safekeeping order and should have recused himself. Allen had the right for another judge to review and issue the safekeeping order.

The attorneys claim several procedural deficiencies with the safekeeping order and said Allen had “an absolute right” to refuse being transferred into state custody. The attorneys said the safekeeping order wasn’t served to Allen or Gibson, the attorney his wife had hired, and thus neither Allen nor Gibson had the opportunity to argue against his transfer.

Allen’s attorneys argue the state deprived Allen of constitutional rights afforded in the Sixth and Fourteenth amendments.

Van and timeline questions​

One of the key pieces of evidence used against Allen at trial was a confession in which he said a white van spooked him, leading him to panic and kill Abby Williams and Libby German.

The prosecution identified 2:32 p.m. as the moment when Libby German’s phone stopped moving. The prosecutor, McLeland, called it a “hard fact” that the phone stopped moving at that moment.

During a confession given to a prison psychologist, Allen said he abducted the girls on the Monon High Bridge and forced them down a hill. He claimed he was going to sexually assault the girls when he saw a white van heading down a nearby access road, causing him to panic and order the girls across the creek where he killed them.

The prosecution touted the white van as a detail “only the killer would know.” The driver of that van, Brad Weber, testified he drove past the murder scene around 2:30 p.m. on the way to his parents’ house.

Richard Allen sentenced to 130 years for Delphi murders
But the defense said surveillance video showed a van matching Weber’s heading north on the access road around 2:44 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017. That meant Weber couldn’t have passed the murder scene at 2:30 p.m. and would have arrived home at a time after 2:44 p.m.

Additionally, an FBI report indicated Weber’s phone first pinged his parents’ address at 2:50 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, reinforcing the timeline set out by the surveillance video.

The defense accused the state of presenting false information in court or failing to correct information it knew to be false. The state used Weber’s testimony to corroborate Allen’s confession to the prison psychologist.

If the state didn’t know about the surveillance video, the defense argued, then the video would constitute new evidence that would “probably produce a different result at a new trial.”

Ron Logan’s purported confession​

Ron Logan owned property where the girls were killed. In the early days of the investigation, he provided reporters with tours of the property and talked about the case and the search for the girls.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation also requested a search warrant for Logan’s property in March 2017, just weeks after the murders. The warrant indicated investigators wanted to search his home and outbuildings for anything related to the girls’ killings, including forensic evidence, digital devices, guns and cutting instruments.

The search was conducted on March 17, 2017. The FBI agent who wrote the warrant said Logan’s physical build was consistent with the “Bridge Guy” video taken from Libby German’s phone and his voice was “not inconsistent” with the person in the video. He had also concocted a false alibi.

Logan was never charged in connection with the Delphi case. He died in January 2022.

Defense attorneys maintain Richard Allen’s innocence
According to a tip from May 2017, Logan confessed to another inmate that he killed the girls. The inmate said Logan claimed he burned his clothes in a fire pit and feared drops of blood from his nose may have ended up on the girls’ clothes.

Police followed up on that tip and interviewed the inmate, Ricci Davis, at the New Castle Correctional Facility. An Indiana State Police first sergeant conducted the interview.

The investigator’s handwritten notes indicated Logan told Davis he was walking and talking with the girls about knowing one of their fathers. One of the girls wanted to turn around; Logan grabbed Abby’s shoulder, which caused Libby to freak out. One of the girls said something about calling the police.

Logan told Davis he was “paranoid” about a probation violation and felt like he “crossed a line” when he grabbed Abby. Logan asked the girls if they wanted to see some of his animals, including his horses. Libby didn’t want to go while Abby was open to the idea, especially of seeing the horses.

Eventually, this led to a scuffle, according to the inmate’s account, and Logan got hit in the nose. He pulled out a boxcutter and attacked Libby, cutting her throat. He said Abby was scared and he took her somewhere, although he didn’t say where. He eventually cut her neck, too, according to the inmate’s account.

Logan told the inmate he came back hours later and wanted to move Libby to an area where she wouldn’t be found. He burned his clothes in a burn pit along with boots, gloves and a bag.

The next morning, people showed up asking if they could search his property. Logan told them they could because it would’ve felt “weird if he said no.” He then contacted a family member and left the area.

In a handwritten note about Logan’s confession, Davis said Logan killed both girls because things went “too far,” and they all panicked when he grabbed Abby to reassure her that things were going to be okay.

Logan’s mention of boxcutters is notable because Dr. Roland Kohr, the forensic pathologist who conducted the girls’ autopsies, said during the trial that the girls could’ve been killed by a single boxcutter. His initial opinion was that two different weapons may have been used in the murders.

“Ron Logan’s confession exculpates Mr. Allen and would probably produce a different result at a retrial. Accordingly, the Court should either vacate Mr. Allen’s convictions or set this motion for a hearing,” the motion said.

Headphone jack evidence​

The fourth point raised in the motion concerns disputed evidence surrounding the headphone jack on Libby German’s phone.

During the trial, the defense called forensic expert Stacy Eldridge to the stand. She analyzed the data logs from the phone and said it appeared someone had plugged headphones into the auxiliary jack at 5:44 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, and removed the headphones at 10:32 p.m. on the same day.

The information cast doubt on the state’s timeline. After learning about it, the state’s phone expert, ISP 1st Sgt. Chris Cecil, suggested dirt or water damage to the phone may have been responsible for the logged activity. Cecil had performed a Google search during a court break before offering his opinion.

The defense said it didn’t have the chance to counter Cecil’s determination during the trial.

According to Eldridge, nothing on Libby’s phone indicated there had been water damage. Photos of the phone didn’t show the phone was covered in water, dirt or other debris. She was “unaware of any scientific or technological research suggesting that water or dirt damage to an iPhone 6s would cause the phone to inaccurately log wired headphones in or wired headphones out.”

At no point during the trial did the state allege Allen returned to the murder scene. Were a jury to lend credence to Eldridge’s analysis, the state’s “narrative is impossible,” the defense wrote in the motion.

“Ms. Eldridge’s opinion that dirt or water could not have caused L.G.’s phone to log wired headphones being plugged into and being unplugged from the phone on February 13, 2017, exculpates Mr. Allen and would probably produce a different result at a new trial,” the motion said. “Accordingly, the Court should either vacate Mr. Allen’s convictions or set this motion for a hearing.”

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Copyright 2025 Nexstar Media Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
I read what is here. I did not go into the link. Last night I hit Tom an hour in and so have not seen or heard the filings, etc. and won't have time today until way later, if then. I saw tons of comments though and he was on for quite a long time yet once I hit the show.

The D has their usual problems where they contradict THEMSELVES.

As always, people get excited and then the State responds and so I will wait for that.

However, one key thing is the time to bring this up was at the hearings and they did not. This is not "NEW" evidence. They wanted to get Logan in and yet never used it, why? Also, let's recall they never really wanted RL, we asked that many times why that was, they wanted the Os. They mostly stayed noticeably away from RL and there is a reason for that I'm sure.

The idea that anyone reached under Abby and plugged in headphones is absolutely ridiculous. They crossed a creek. It was FEBRUARY and the phone was on the GROUND with a person on top of it.

One of the most ridiculous things is we see video from the time the girls were taken, this RL story doesn't work. And a jailhouse snitch has an automatic strike from me.

AS I said I'm going to have to go back later and listen to yet another of their dumb long filings but I can handle it when Tom relays it. I also will wait for the P's response of court which always tamps down everyone's overboard excitement each time the D files something outlandish.

I also have to scoff at their statement they did not have a chance to argue against the Google info re the phone. They sprung their thing on the P, the P Googled, what stopped the D from crossing or addressing it? Seriously. Give me a break.

For most I saw last night, this changes nothing and it doesn't for me. Not so far and I doubt it will from what I did hear.

The right man is in prison. The jurors made the right decision.

And as far as the Allen's $5,000 attorney? The minute he contacted NM he made contact with RA who was being safeguarded. No hesitation whatsover.

I'm sick of this bunch but then they barely make a blip for me so big deal. I also never noticed RL confessing to the warden...
 
Interview with Mcleland on Murder Sheet.

Interesting right from the get go. So MS was not impressed with NM at first but then started changing their tune when they saw him deftly shoot down every argument the D made about the safekeeping order at a hearing, absolutely prepared and ready and focused.

He was a defense atty for a number of years before he ever was a prosecutor.

I am probably going to have to listen to ALL of these. Thanks for linking!
 
Well I'll get back to NM, etc. interview later. RIght now I needed to get caught up on the recent D filings and watch Tom who covers that sh*t great and I can take listening to it through whereas no way am I myself reading their garbage. So far, many pages in, it's the same OLD sh*t we've heard before. SAme old, same old, same old complaints and claims about psychosis, the safekeeping order and again SAME OLD garbage that already WAS addressed.

More to come I'm sure but I'm not amused.

I've never ever seen anyone so sickening for D attorneys nor so deserving of being disbarred imo. I saw the excitement as usual by some idiots and just shake my head. I swear those people need help. It continues until the P files their answer then fizzles out until the next time although some keep at it but staying with shows that only stay on it because of such people and views, not because they don't know better imo.

Lol I don't even react when I hear they filed someone and some are buzzing with excitement, it's pathetic imo.

Again, same old.
 
I note they cite case law from 1953. Lol. It is possible but rare there's no newer case law than something that old. Looks like picking and choosing to me. Newer more recent case law must not say what they want it to say, doesn't support their claims. Jmo. That is SEVENTY-TWO years ago. Duh.
 
I have to really shake my head at their stupid Weber van thing. Another big nothing. And the D wants to say RA's confessions are NOT true but then at times they want to use parts they then claim to be true. These men are truly stupid. Imo.
 
Tom points out many things the D is saying that are not true OR that they are leaving out which is very typical of all of their filings to date. Pick and choose, and ignore.
 
Okay. It's a struggle for new words for the very same old sh*t. So this is what people who have lost their minds are so excited about (some)? Just another nothing burger and nothing new and as always they contradict THEMSELVES. They are desperate and people out there that think these attys are excellent I can't imagine who they compare them to or who sets their bar. They are idiots. Desperate. Same old sh*t, so easily debunked. Tom had many a good point as always and I could come up with a ton but I'm sick of it honestly, it's so ridiculous. RA is where he belongs but I tell ya I almost hope he and KA fire them one day because they aren't doing sh*t for him.

It is all so ridiculous. They cite RA confessions when something in one they WANT to use. They don't want them accepted as truth when something in them they DO NOT want used.

They said their phone expert who said their were headphones put in the phone jack from 5 something to 10 something that night, they say if the jury could have heard her they would have reached another verdict. DUH. The jury DID hear her you idiots. And they found him guilty. They go on about if she could have debunked the google expert testimony about water in the phone, the verdict would have been different. Uhm, they brought it all up as a surprise to the P, did someone stop them from cross examining after the P said it was due to water and Google said so? Their expert would now say that isn't true, phone wasn't dirty, wet, etc. and such doesn't do that to I Phone 6s. As Tom says there are tons of users out there saying such does too happen even before these murders in 2016 plenty of people were griping their phones were stuck in headphone mode due to water. So that's b.s. They say the phone did not move after 2 whatever p.m. but then say headphones were inserted in it so which is it? Idiots.

This one I really like. Since headphones were in the jack from 5 something til 10 something and a P witness saw RA on the road leaving,j someone else had to have inserted headphones and monkeyed with phone multiple times. How is inserting headphones then taking them out hours later SEVERAL or multiple times? That is TWICE. Did the phone do anything in these five hours? No. BUT the best part is it could not be RA because the P said a witness saw him on the road leaving. HUH? IF it was headphones where is it shown he could not have went back just like anyone else could have went there? DUH, DUH, DUH, DUH.

These "men" are bumbling desperate idiots who think nothing out and have NOTHING.

Now they don't want the Os but they want RL. Which is it? I thought one man couldn't do all this? They never wanted RL for some reason. Also the jailhouse snitch story does not work L's phone never went far enough to go to his home and back. When did all this stuff and conversation happen? Doesn't work. L's video starts with the down the hill.

Imo the snitch story had to have the RL's clothing being burnt as RL didn't own clothing that matched BG.

There's so much more wrong with this joke of more filings. I could go on forever. The P did nothing wrong The snitch was interviewed, the D had the information so why dind't they use is it at the hearings to get to mention RL at trial? Huh? Why did they wait until now?

They know it doesn't work, that's why imo.

They say had who was it the coroner had his eureka moment about a box cutter years early, RL would have been arrested because he said to the snitch he used a box cutter? On what planet do they LIVE? How would that be enough for an arrest? These men are IDIOTS to think a judge or an appeals court would look at any of this sh*t seriously.

I am worried about the people that fall for this garbage out there. The YTers and such that play into it do it for a very real reason. The people that fall for it though, they need some serious help imo.

Like every one of the D filings, they aren't brilliant, they are stupid with not a bit of substance. It's desperation if anything or they just have no intelligence. I'm serious. Not trying to be insulting to anyone out there. It is always so obviously lacking anything of substance, every single thing they file. It picks and chooses always and it never adds up or makes sense. They say one thing then in the next claim say the opposite. You can't have things both ways but they want to.

Imo if they were decent men, they'd have withdrawn from this case or let themselves be removed. They did not fight to stay on for RA and no one will ever convince me of that.

One has arrogance beyond that has absolutely no basis for being so full of oneself and the other is a sneaky sly game playing leaker not playing fair but he is an idiot and a bumblehead. The one juror said he couldn't get his head together at trial, didn't do very well. Not prepared imo.

I'm sick to death of the same old and every bit of this we pretty much heard before they ever filed it so it just seems like more repeat b.s. People get excited every time they file something and always have. Then eventually the P responds and that's it and the big claims that have no substance just kind of dissipate. Til the next filing then some get all excited again. It's gotten so old however I can't help but laugh at them sometimes as they are so ridiculous it is pathetic.

All JMO,

@Tresir it's about 35 minutes to know what it is all about with Tom who makes it bearable and it is funny to see for yourself how many things you can come up with that don't work which is almost all of them, as always. Just another big nothing burger as I said. Nothing is going to come of any of this and it shouldn't. Imo.
 
Tom points out many things the D is saying that are not true OR that they are leaving out which is very typical of all of their filings to date. Pick and choose, and ignore.
Like for instance LE checked RL's guns and no match to the bullet was found. Yet it did match RA's gun and it was significant when RA stated in interview that he had never loaned his gun out. McLeland said in his MS interview that he watched that interview of RA remotely on CCTV live at the time and knew how significant that was.
 
Like for instance LE checked RL's guns and no match to the bullet was found. Yet it did match RA's gun and it was significant when RA stated in interview that he had never loaned his gun out. McLeland said in his MS interview that he watched that interview of RA remotely on CCTV live at the time and knew how significant that was.
Good morning! Again I haven't went to bed yet lol.

Exactly. You should watch Tom. It truly is the same old type of garbage the defense is always trying to make seem significant when it is NOTHING such but there's so much that makes it so obvious that people really need to get a clue and quit falling for such crap.
 
I just saw this, I may have seen it before, can't recall. He actually thinks this would have been helpful for Rick. I don't. I think it would have been the opposite. Poor man was exhausted, I mean he had a big day.

That is also if KA was even telling the truth. I for one wouldn't believe a word out of her mouth.

It's just a "short".



Poor guys didn't dare put Mrs. Allen on the stand.
 
Okay. It's a struggle for new words for the very same old sh*t. So this is what people who have lost their minds are so excited about (some)? Just another nothing burger and nothing new and as always they contradict THEMSELVES. They are desperate and people out there that think these attys are excellent I can't imagine who they compare them to or who sets their bar. They are idiots. Desperate. Same old sh*t, so easily debunked. Tom had many a good point as always and I could come up with a ton but I'm sick of it honestly, it's so ridiculous. RA is where he belongs but I tell ya I almost hope he and KA fire them one day because they aren't doing sh*t for him.

It is all so ridiculous. They cite RA confessions when something in one they WANT to use. They don't want them accepted as truth when something in them they DO NOT want used.

They said their phone expert who said their were headphones put in the phone jack from 5 something to 10 something that night, they say if the jury could have heard her they would have reached another verdict. DUH. The jury DID hear her you idiots. And they found him guilty. They go on about if she could have debunked the google expert testimony about water in the phone, the verdict would have been different. Uhm, they brought it all up as a surprise to the P, did someone stop them from cross examining after the P said it was due to water and Google said so? Their expert would now say that isn't true, phone wasn't dirty, wet, etc. and such doesn't do that to I Phone 6s. As Tom says there are tons of users out there saying such does too happen even before these murders in 2016 plenty of people were griping their phones were stuck in headphone mode due to water. So that's b.s. They say the phone did not move after 2 whatever p.m. but then say headphones were inserted in it so which is it? Idiots.

This one I really like. Since headphones were in the jack from 5 something til 10 something and a P witness saw RA on the road leaving,j someone else had to have inserted headphones and monkeyed with phone multiple times. How is inserting headphones then taking them out hours later SEVERAL or multiple times? That is TWICE. Did the phone do anything in these five hours? No. BUT the best part is it could not be RA because the P said a witness saw him on the road leaving. HUH? IF it was headphones where is it shown he could not have went back just like anyone else could have went there? DUH, DUH, DUH, DUH.

These "men" are bumbling desperate idiots who think nothing out and have NOTHING.

Now they don't want the Os but they want RL. Which is it? I thought one man couldn't do all this? They never wanted RL for some reason. Also the jailhouse snitch story does not work L's phone never went far enough to go to his home and back. When did all this stuff and conversation happen? Doesn't work. L's video starts with the down the hill.

Imo the snitch story had to have the RL's clothing being burnt as RL didn't own clothing that matched BG.

There's so much more wrong with this joke of more filings. I could go on forever. The P did nothing wrong The snitch was interviewed, the D had the information so why dind't they use is it at the hearings to get to mention RL at trial? Huh? Why did they wait until now?

They know it doesn't work, that's why imo.

They say had who was it the coroner had his eureka moment about a box cutter years early, RL would have been arrested because he said to the snitch he used a box cutter? On what planet do they LIVE? How would that be enough for an arrest? These men are IDIOTS to think a judge or an appeals court would look at any of this sh*t seriously.

I am worried about the people that fall for this garbage out there. The YTers and such that play into it do it for a very real reason. The people that fall for it though, they need some serious help imo.

Like every one of the D filings, they aren't brilliant, they are stupid with not a bit of substance. It's desperation if anything or they just have no intelligence. I'm serious. Not trying to be insulting to anyone out there. It is always so obviously lacking anything of substance, every single thing they file. It picks and chooses always and it never adds up or makes sense. They say one thing then in the next claim say the opposite. You can't have things both ways but they want to.

Imo if they were decent men, they'd have withdrawn from this case or let themselves be removed. They did not fight to stay on for RA and no one will ever convince me of that.

One has arrogance beyond that has absolutely no basis for being so full of oneself and the other is a sneaky sly game playing leaker not playing fair but he is an idiot and a bumblehead. The one juror said he couldn't get his head together at trial, didn't do very well. Not prepared imo.

I'm sick to death of the same old and every bit of this we pretty much heard before they ever filed it so it just seems like more repeat b.s. People get excited every time they file something and always have. Then eventually the P responds and that's it and the big claims that have no substance just kind of dissipate. Til the next filing then some get all excited again. It's gotten so old however I can't help but laugh at them sometimes as they are so ridiculous it is pathetic.

All JMO,

@Tresir it's about 35 minutes to know what it is all about with Tom who makes it bearable and it is funny to see for yourself how many things you can come up with that don't work which is almost all of them, as always. Just another big nothing burger as I said. Nothing is going to come of any of this and it shouldn't. Imo.
You nailed it. SOSDD.
 

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