LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I get that you bring the WM3 into every case now. But that says something and means you have a bias as do we all from things and it in no way means that is what is going on here. Au contraire you have cops that were doing their own investigation intrigued with the O thing after concluded it was not.

The muddy and bloody yeah, comes from the defense that it was not said and as if it is some big thing but we don't know as it has never been hashed out, we ourselves have never heard from that witness nor heard a recording of her interview or seen a transcript. If she said it looked like he was in a fight which is in the PCA uhm for me that would mean bloody before even muddy.

All, every bit of it lately, is from the defense. I am not saying there aren't issues or problems but jumping onto one side and believing all they say well...

HERE is one for you. If they were going to have cops and witnesses change their stories, this would be a lot more perfect wouldn't it, instead of the cars kind of varying and his dress varying a bit, etc. THAT is real life normal memories. They would have cops helping with false stores and more than one PERFECT lynch pin. This case ain't that.

I know of corrupt police forces in the Rochester region. I also know about the tech in Boston who fudged drug analysis reports because she never tested the samples. I also know about police deliberately setting people up because it's convenient. This whole "OH, WE FINALLY FOUND THE GUY!!" Seems like horse hockey, it's awfully convenient this happened. I'm not buying what the cops are saying as uncorrupted beyond a shadow of a doubt. If the police did in fact check into the Odinist theory and deemed it unbelievable, they should show us how they investigated and came to that conclusion.

I realize that the people who believe the police and justice system 100% of the time, will have a problem with my theories. Oh, well. I'm just looking for some indisputable evidence. AFAIK, they don't have a DNA match with the girls that we've heard about. The LISK case started off with that when naming Cry Baby the suspect. We have DNA evidence, yet none is talked about here.
 
So now it is a casing again and not a bullet?? Maybe you were the one who got me down the casing road. I was corrected a couple of weeks ago and I always thought it was a bullet but someone kept saying casing so I was referring to it as casing but it is bullet. Or is it? Psheesh I give up, no wonder the mess.


:thud:

It isn't junk science and with all else has huge import. It isn't a video of a killing with the killer's face, photo ID in his hand showing on camera and his scar above his eyebrow and the one under his lip showing clearly on film too but it is major.

The recording of BG makes it almost impossible for me to see how they could get an image out of it. They do have great computer apps that can help clear up bad pictures. If they did that, why not just put that remastered picture up?
 
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Not done yet, but have a couple of questions:

The girls said the guy was not over 5'10. They called him small. 6 inches in height is a big difference. I'm 5'5" and nobody would say I was not over 5'10" They'd say short. If they asked if I was over 5'10" it would elicit laughter.

Also, when did they get the footage from the Harvest Store? If they got that footage in 2022 after finding a suspect that's very hinky for me. I've worked places that have video surveillance, and it was deleted monthly. If they're saying they went to the Harvest Store, and they had footage stored from 2017 I find that very hard to believe. It's possible they asked local business' to give them their footage, if they had video surveillance systems in 2017 to use for future reference. View attachment 20622
She means at the tallest, at best. It isn't like they were dating the guy or stood next to him to talk. In fact he didn't even respond to the one who greeted him or whatever.
 
I have to say, I've heard different things about the bullet/casing found between the girls. I do know that when lawyers on CourtTV were asked specifically about the markings, they all said it's not like a fingerprint. One expert I've seen said that the type of markings used to identify the gun, is shoddy science and shouldn't be allowed to be presented as evidence.
 
It matched his gun, I believe, is only saying that brand of gun and make matched up. So anyone owning a Sig Sauer just like that one, would have similar ejection marks. I also can't say this is absolutely true, but I seem to recall hearing that the PD used the exact type of gun he had.
Are you serious in now saying this? That all Sig's would have the same ejection marks? Not to mention this gun was not new, I believe it was like bought in 2001. Surely the cop's are newer even in Delphi? Also why would a cop have a reason to eject a bullet at the scene and with a number of other personnel around? A rabbit startled him and he is Barney Fife? What did he say, as he trembled, Bugs you stay away from me or I will shoot and ejected it as a warning to the bunny?

Sorry emu but I find that all ludicrous and it comes straight again as all does from the defense b.s. that so many are parroting and don't even stop to think how ridiculous it is. My God I can only hope a jury can see through that better than the types I am seeing in this case that seem to have suddenly developed addled brains. Not directed at you, already know you are addled and a dodo. Lol.

But I mean really!! WTH?
 
From the PCA:

Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49pan. white car matching
vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mearsfarni. advised she finished her
walk and saw no other adults other than the male on the bridge.


Another witness told police he noticed a purple PT Cruiser or a “small SUV type” or “smart car” parked to the side of the old Child Protection Services (CPS) building on February 17, 2017. Investigators determined that Allen owned two vehicles at the time, including a 2006 black Ford Focus and a 2006 grey Ford 500.

I bolded that stuff.

He didn't even own a white car back then.

Here's a white PT Cruiser:

1200px-06-08_Chrysler_PT_Cruiser.jpg


I looked for a white smart car, but they seem to only come in two tone paint jobs.

OIP.VLJxcXMq5b7iKqB_Y9QcUAHaEK


Here's a 2006 black Ford Focus:

$_86.JPG


What's for sure is that car isn't white, or purple. Did police run a search on who owns purple PT Cruisers in the area? So if it wasn't RA's car on the video, whose was it. The police seem to be ignoring that problem.
Allen places himself there, having parked there. Don't go forgetting that.
 
My opinions.

1. I haven't read up on Megan Boswell lately. She's in TN.
2. I have all the respect in the world for the Indiana State Police (ISP). Not related to this case, but I remember during the riots of 2020 the rioters in Louisville got the bright idea to cross a bridge and bring it to Indiana. ISP got wind of their plans and a very long line of them headed to the bridge. The rioters turned around and went back.
3. Doug Carter was emotionally involved. Even then, its a bit hard for me to hold that against him. He's not the one that lost the tip on RA.
4. The Supreme Court, I really don't know enough to offer up an opinion. I know what I understand to be the law and trial procedure and what I believe to be the right things to do in this case.

I place the blame for the current fiasco squarely on the judicial system.

I've stated more than once, I believe RA is the guy. I don't think for one minute that Ron Logan, Kevin Kline, or anyone else is involved in this. He needs to be tried, fair and square, and locked up.
I don't know why I keep thinking Boswell is iN. Maybe because they debated the DP with her? But I just keep thinking that from the start. So yeah,got that wrong.

Interesting on the ISP. I like Carter but do have to wonder what he'd say if he was allowed to and could weigh in openly and honestly with all.

SCs are worrisome and I don't know what goes on in your state but ours has recently had a bunch of b.s. from one side. Politics have gone beyond and so have no following rules or law or procedure and that is putting it lightly. Don't want to go down that road and no time but I do not have the faith I would have once had. Times have changed and not for the better, politics are trumping justice. Not long ago I'd have thought no serious person in the system on either side would put such ahead of life of victims or defendants or justice but I don't feel that way any longer.

You know, it is all about RA's rights but nothing about the rights of the victims or their families. Basically because they don't matter nor have any do they? Oh people think they do but that's the real truth of it. I don't think NEAR ENOUGH is said about that. This is not at you, just putting it out there and adding it here.

I don't know if it is a term any longer or an acceptable one but imo the defense has turned this into a monkey court and a circus, beginning with that ridiculous O thing that they did not even attempt to put together in any serious or professional manner or be succinct. They simply wanted to sensationalize and bury the court under a mountain of b.s. Had they done it in a professoinal manner instead of like some wandering crazy bunch of theories, I don't have time or words but anyhow...

I won't likely have time for another post either so going to tack this on here. I don't agree with all opinions in it but it mentions Becky Patty's posts and the victim's "rights" or shall we say lack of them? And I definitely agree with that and a few other things as well. Court TV a handful of hours ago.

 
My opinions.

1. I haven't read up on Megan Boswell lately. She's in TN.
2. I have all the respect in the world for the Indiana State Police (ISP). Not related to this case, but I remember during the riots of 2020 the rioters in Louisville got the bright idea to cross a bridge and bring it to Indiana. ISP got wind of their plans and a very long line of them headed to the bridge. The rioters turned around and went back.
3. Doug Carter was emotionally involved. Even then, its a bit hard for me to hold that against him. He's not the one that lost the tip on RA.
4. The Supreme Court, I really don't know enough to offer up an opinion. I know what I understand to be the law and trial procedure and what I believe to be the right things to do in this case.

I place the blame for the current fiasco squarely on the judicial system.

I've stated more than once, I believe RA is the guy. I don't think for one minute that Ron Logan, Kevin Kline, or anyone else is involved in this. He needs to be tried, fair and square, and locked up.
Agree on RA, he IS the guy. I do think KK and the stuff plays in SOMEHOW even if it was just the girls talking with more than one catfish kind of thing or him having access or seeing the plan with KK, etc. a/k/a the male model. It is just too uncanny to ignore. I DO however think it was a solitary murderer and that murderer was RA. We can agree on that.
 
The white car was seen at 1.49 pm. He was already on the trails by then. This was the car that dropped off the girls at 1.49 pm. RA had access to 2 cars. Neither are white. He admitted he was on the trails 1.30 to 3.30 PM. So how could he be driving a white car at 1.49pm?

From the PCA:

"Video from the Hoosier Harvestore shows at 1:49pm white car matching BLANK's vehicle traveling away from the entrance across from the Mears farm. WITNESS advised she finished her walk and saw no other adults other than the male on the bridge."


Have you a link for the Sig Sauer comment? Because in the PCA it was traced to his specific Sig Sauer.
He is listening to talking heads who don't know what they are talking of and are defense oriented and I'd bet on it. Jmo.
 
I came to that conclusion because the tree and the creek shoes and clothes are the only three pics we have seen. I now understand the stick drawings were based on description of the placing of the sticks from a source to a reporter. I read that somewhere, so no link ATM. Wouldn't we have seen them if there were pictures of the dead girls out there on the net for two months?
I don't necessarily believe this two month thing first of all. MS says they came to them and others in October so I don't know why you think they'd have been shared back then? Also, even when all these people got them in October most knew not to share them or didn't dare. So why would we have seen them?
 
GrandmaBear said: "So now it is a casing again and not a bullet?"
It's this, an unfired round of ammunition, .40 S&W Calibre :

GrandmaBear said: "Allen places himself there, having parked there."
Well, the PCA alleges this is what Allen said (NOTE: the PCA absolutely
fails to give a direct quote, therefore what we are getting is at best, an
interpretation of what Allen said, or at worst, a mis-representation of
what Allen said, in line with others falsehoods in the PCA like the
'muddy and bloody' falsehood)...
Page 4 of the PCA: {investigators cite a 'tip narrative'}( i.e. the conversation
with DNR Dan Dulin, who incidently now claims he can't find the audio
tape of the conversation he had with Allen - how convenient.)
DNR Dan alleges Allen said that 'He parked at the old Farm Bureau building'.

and Page 5 of the PCA cites a October 13, 2022a interview, wherein, dropped
amongst a paragraph of ridiculously jumbled information, is parachuted the
following assertion, that Allen 'stated he parked his car on the side of an old
building'.

As to where Allen ACTUALLY parked, although his previous Defense didn't
challenge the idea it was at the former CPS building, we have nothing directly,
unequivocally, as to where he meant he parked. Why not? Because Liggett
never bothered to show him a map and ask him to identify the place he parked,
because Liggett is at best careless if falsehoods are included in the PCA,
like the 'muddy and bloody' falsehood.

This is all gone into in the Memorandum, about page 109 and thereabouts,
including the fact that witness Betsy Blair, at or about 2:15 P.M., DID NOT
see a black, ford focus car at the CPS site but rather a car that was NOT
BLACK and that looked in side view, similar to the (angular) side profile of
a 1965 Ford (i.e. Mercury) Comet, this information being found in a report
of Liggett which has been entered into Court documents as Exhibit 105,
paragraphs 4 and 6 on page 1 (thereof).
So now we know, Allen drove a black ford focus and it wasn't at the CPS
building, where Liggett alleges it was, at or about, 2:15P.M..

Beddy Bye
 
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I have to say, I've heard different things about the bullet/casing found between the girls. I do know that when lawyers on CourtTV were asked specifically about the markings, they all said it's not like a fingerprint. One expert I've seen said that the type of markings used to identify the gun, is shoddy science and shouldn't be allowed to be presented as evidence.
It isn't a fingerprint nor DNA but it is not nothing nor junk science. Will the defense tested other random guns and will show identical marks and that match someone there on top of it?
 
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So what does that car have to do with RA? They were on the bridge when RA says he was there. We already knew that. So what evidentiary value does that have? The girls phone would have exactly when the picture and recording of BG happened. So I don't get the white car thing.

Also, again. Nobody said they saw a black car at the scene. A purple PT Cruiser was parked near there backed in, so they couldn't see the license plate. I already demonstrated that a PT Cruiser and a Ford Focus look completely different. Oh, it might have been a smart car instead.

Was the PCA saying that the white car proves they were dropped off? We already know that!
It was verifying the time they were dropped off, by the video from the Hoosier store. So they were only on the trails for 24 minutes before they met that murderer. 1.49 pm they were dropped off. Walked to the bridge and crossed, then at 2.13 Libby filmed him and thank goodness she did.

Have you read the PCA?
 
GrandmaBear said: "So now it is a casing again and not a bullet?"
It's this, an unfired round of ammunition, .40 S&W Calibre :

GrandmaBear said: "Allen places himself there, having parked there."
Well, the PCA alleges this is what Allen said (NOTE: the PCA absolutely
fails to give a direct quote, therefore what we are getting is at best, an
interpretation of what Allen said, or at worst, a mis-representation of
what Allen said, in line with others falsehoods in the PCA like the
'muddy and bloody' falsehood)...
Page 4 of the PCA: {investigators cite a 'tip narrative'}( i.e. the conversation
with DNR Dan Dulin, who incidently now claims he can't find the audio
tape of the conversation he had with Allen - how convenient.)
DNR Dan alleges Allen said that 'He parked at the old Farm Bureau building'.

and Page 5 of the PCA cites a October 13, 2022a interview, wherein, dropped
amongst a paragraph of ridiculously jumbled information, is parachuted the
following assertion, that Allen 'stated he parked his car on the side of an old
building'.

As to where Allen ACTUALLY parked, although his previous Defense didn't
challenge the idea it was at the former CPS building, we have nothing directly,
unequivocally, as to where he meant he parked. Why not? Because Liggett
never bothered to show him a map and ask him to identify the place he parked,
because Liggett is at best careless if falsehoods are included in the PCA,
like the 'muddy and bloody' falsehood.

This is all gone into in the Memorandum, about page 109 and thereabouts,
including the fact that witness Betsy Blair, at or about 2:15 P.M., DID NOT
see a black, ford focus car at the CPS site but rather a car that was NOT
BLACK and that looked in side view, similar to the (angular) side profile of
a 1965 Ford (i.e. Mercury) Comet, this information being found in a report
of Liggett which has been entered into Court documents as Exhibit 105,
paragraphs 4 and 6 on page 1 (thereof).
So now we know, Allen drove a black ford focus and it wasn't at the CPS
building, where Liggett alleges it was, at or about, 2:15P.M..
He puts himself there. He's on camera. His gun matches the bullet found. He has been recorded by the victims and described by the witnesses. He is toast.

The PCA is grounds for his arrest. All the evidence will be fully explained in court.
 
It was verifying the time they were dropped off, by the video from the Hoosier store. So they were only on the trails for 24 minutes before they met that murderer. 1.49 pm they were dropped off. Walked to the bridge and crossed, then at 2.13 Libby filmed him and thank goodness she did.

Have you read the PCA?

About half of it so far. We know when they were dropped off due to one of their parents dropping them off. We also know when they were supposed to be picked up. I don't understand why seeing the car dropping them off is important.
 
He puts himself there. He's on camera. His gun matches the bullet found. He has been recorded by the victims and described by the witnesses. He is toast.

The PCA is grounds for his arrest. All the evidence will be fully explained in court.

Who's on camera hasn't been proven one way or another.
 

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