LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

New Prosecution Special Counsel showed up (appearance notice) on the docket around Oct 19th. So much chaos, we hardly noticed him.
from the notice:

Attorney
James David Luttrull Jr.
#1001827
Attorney address
101 E 4th ST
RM 107
Marion, IN 46952

Red hot Q: So ... what's our new P-guy's jam?

See Press Release re: Luttrull - from Indiana DCS, 2019: https://www.in.gov/dcs/files/James-Luttrull-press-release.pdf

RSandBBM


alrighty then.
Expert in prosecution of child abuse ... takes Prosecution 2nd chair as a special counsel

let's not let our P newcomer sneak by, shall we?

What's known about RA CSA or CSAM history? What's known about any witnesses suggesting such RA history?
(Sure KK and Anthony Shots ... but anyone else? Didn't KK deny knowing of RA? But KK is a lying liar, amiright?)

Didn't Luttrell show up about the same time JG put a deadline on P getting D the rest of the discovery?

JMHO

Great news, more help for the P was authorized and likely needed. This sure isn't their only case but it likely takes an inordinate amount of time. I know ours is understaffed and it is an issue and has been for years and I know every office in Delphi seems to have a minimum of staff and that also includes the jail. Maybe not even minimum but not even adequate, but then under normal circumstances maybe it is enough. It isn't even arguable that they need someone brought on that can dedicate just to this case if not more than one.

I see nothing nefarious about this at all and in fact it was probably due and something they needed to have.

Expert in prosecution of child abuse. Well they were children and they were abused. There is that.

And there very strongly is the possibility of a link with KK and a pedo ring.

What more do you need? These were children and they are dead. His background may not be a huge reason at all but it sure would make him a good fit for what happened to these girls whether anything relates to KK or not.

 

[GrandmaBear]

New Order to Judge Gull from the IN Supreme Court (Order to get that (secret) in-chambers meeting transcript to the SCOIN and to RA (relator))

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Order%20-%20Requested%20transcript.pdf

I am too far behind to go in and read it but right in what you posted, that's not true. They ordered a response by a certain date to the motion. That's typical and ordinary. THEN they will rule when both sides reasons are given. A RESPONSE, not an order to produce. You sure turned that one and made a false statement.

Sorry but it is right up there with making it sound as if the SCION ruled the other day to reinstate old D and remove Gull.

Don't make me get out the frying pan! I guess the other way would be to get out the peace pipe. Do we have one here....

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm guessing IF they are using his child expertise, it's for the murders. There are no child abuse charges against RA in this case.

That's humorous, sadly in its way. Their very murders were child abuse in its most common sense meaning. They don't need such a charge though when they have murder charges which encompass that at a much higher level. So in my thinking yeah, he is charged with child abuse, just not as a separate charge. How they were murdered and taken certainly encompasses that. They were also kidnapped if one thinks about it.

 

[GrandmaBear]

thank you.
do we know that LE has eliminated all POIs as to CSAM and/or the anthony shots angle? (As in their defendant, RA, being involved in online CSAM?)

No. And for me the Kline angle is still open as nothing has closed that door imo. I think something connects somewhere, somehow.. It defies belief that a meeting with Libby at the very place and nearly same time was made with Kline/aka Shots and the girls actually DID go and want to go to the trails/bridge and ended up murdered at around that very time. Something links... Imo. But of course we don't know. This is also a good reminder that there is MUCH we don't know that they likely do.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

And where was RA in your version then?

At the bottom of the hill with... ?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yeah, that bugs me. It doesn't mean that nothing happened there though. If someone working for the PD is involved it might explain it. That's a long shot though.

How does RL's timeline match up with everything? I'm not being sarcastic, I don't recall off the top of my head. I know it is debated as to proof as to when he was there but I mean even overall or what is likely fact? I don't really want to go down this road but I do think if he was not home through the entire "event" that it is not likely. I mean he could have been creating an alibi but hey this man did not WANT to be caught again so why would he get involved in something that would for sure imprison him for life? As you know, I"ve entertained this too over time and it is because of some things but largely because of KK and talk of a Pedo ring and KK is a given that he had CSAM and was into such. We don't know that about RA but the questioning of KK in timing to RA's arrest and the fact KK had a meeting planned with Libby and RA actually did find and "meet" the girls is too much to ignore so I can logically still keep that connected or likely. But nothing about RL can I. Not really. He unfortunately owns another route in. He DID LIE and so I can't help but say I can't fully sympathize with him dead or not, this was a murder investigation of two children and he put himself first and that alone has muddled this case early on. And that furthered suspicion on him and still does, I still think on and look at it too but overall it doesn't gel but I could change my mind with more info than we know. BUT it would take a lot to change my mind on RA being BG.

There have been just too many theories through the years and we have all pounded them, explored them, not just us, but the entire crime following world out there. Some that remain are still hard to ignore. RL did lie. That is his land. We did not make that up. There is a KK and a pedo ring and a catfishing Shots profile. Libby did interact and was going to met at the very same location. Etc. These things are FACT and remain. And then enter RA who we did not know about and had never herd of. Yeah I get it.

BUT RA isn't new, we just never knew of him. KK was not new but seemed to be as well. Of the two RA PUTS himself ON THE BRIDGE even. And far more. Parking, route, times, bullet.

Emu, RA is BG. At leastl you think he was part and haven't found much way to remove him that works. And I get your thoughts because I have had many of them, more so with the KK thing and RL and those still do linger for the reasons I mentioned above. To this day I think KK and the drop box, etc. and Snapchat or whatever are going to play in someHOW, maybe not a physical presence, but somehow.

I can't recall it all but I know Linda gave a very good argument about BG being RL. At the end of my first and only watch of it, I could see it too.. She does that. But she is no different than you and I, she is no expert with height, angles, has never been to the site, doesn't know the rest of the evidence, she is not a detective or anything, she is just a likable woman with a YT channel seeing her own things and having her own opinion just as you and I.

And I'm sure you've found others with the height thing.

I totally dismiss the two who said it was him on the bridge. I am not going to lengthen this as to why.

I will say when we get a profile, it is often he is likely 30 to 48 for instance, probably this height range, etc. and often when a perp is caught he is 28 or 50 for instance. You talk of a bullet etc. not being an exact science, do we know the science behind what they gave for height and was it even done in a FIXED way, just like age range? Going by what you go by, neither RL nor RA can be BG.

I hope all can forgive me, I have had so little time and just want to do some crime "down time" for a moment here and there NOT that this feels like down time on here these days lol. And I am responding to way back pages.

You have every right to your opinion but it seems you haven't entirely landed on one. And now we have the Os which personally I think can be taken out as there isn't anything of enough substance to place them there or make anything so. I'd believe the pedo ring first. And that's even a reach as to a bunch of such types being there. but a connection I certainly can believe to KK, etc.

It is hard to clear it all and follow the time frame and area of all the people in the PCA and also match it with Allen's movements and statements of where he was and when, when arrived, parked, etc. but it was HIM. They definitely at trial need to do an animated easy to see and follow map on a big screen. And put in people moving and walking and arriving and leaving at each point simultaneously. It IS RA. No one else could have come onto that bridge from that direction at that time.

You I think have a cluster of things in your head and I can see why and I can even see why the doubts and can see some of them. You are entitled to your opinion but don't seem settled quite on one as it can't be made to work. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if you try accepting RA as BG instead of RL, a lot of your thoughts and someone down the hill may work better. And think of this, LE has to know his height and the guessed height and they charged anyhow. And we have discussed height and how Allen could add height but RL can't take away his height or get rid of say a strech of his leg. He could slouch a bit but not never enough to be BG. I have a lot of tall dudes in my family and let me tell you no way is BG Ron Logan.

Try making RA BG in your mind and sticking to it for a bit and the rest of your thoughts will work a lot better and be plausible IF still a bit unproven.

I haven't ruled out anyone else. But I'm no longer sold on it either. But I haven't ruled it out. But it has to start with BG being RA.

You think RA is involved. You think BG is RL. But you put RA down the hill on RL's property and have RL on the bridge chasing or forcing the girls down? Then that makes RA's whole story from day one false that it was him here and there parking and on the trails. That doesn't fly. He PLACES himself there as does video. That's the part you aren't making work. Make RA BG. And then see where you go with the rest of it. It will work a whole lot beter.

Sorry for wandering. And going on and on. Have more things to take care of today and tryiing to catch up beforehand on here.

Everything you think could more logically work but it can't because Allen is the one who puts himself there and it WORKS perfectly with every witness who saw a man on the trails or a platform of the bridge as to timing. He admitted to these things and being at such and such at such and such a time because he knew he was seen or passed others. It is so simple, THAT PART of it. If not for that, his own statements about his presence, then YES, it would be a different story and a free for all as to the facts.

Linda isn't with her life the quickest with cases anymore or keeping up I mean but IF she comes back and says now with other info, she believes it was not RL because of this or that, will you then believe it?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Two people who knew him well identified him as BG without being asked. That points to him, IMO.

I disagree. Do you know how many times I thought that man on the bridge could be my ex/tat the time husband? I am serious. I thought on it many a time but never said it here to speak of. Not all about him but enough and I had one that had a secret life at least cheating and who knows what else he hid, traveled for work to places like IN and surrounding states and even farther at times and sometimes on a work plane there and back in a day meeting a crew and grabbing a truck and NEVER even telling me he was going out of state?

This comes into what @RoundPeg said that that could be any IN man or imo even any midwest man. To a point I agree, I do NOT agree all voices are the same plus RA PUTS himself there.

Yeah the two witnesses who knew RL well said it was RL. Well for me it was my ex of like 15 years together and I seriously contemplated this MANY a time when watching the BG video and wondered if it could be him. My ex. And tried to recall if it was one of many times he had an unexplained absence and a work trip I only came to find out after and putting some other things together. When you have someone who lies and is secretive you think it is about cheating but then you wonder if that is all it is... WHAT are they hiding? Anyhow my point is I'm from WI and he was in IN many a time. I knew him well, intimately as to picking him out and this is what you are basing these witnesses on, that two that knew him closely and I doubt for as long as I was with my ex and they said it was him. Well dodo it was my ex too, PART of the BG figure and I couldn't shake that it could be, and had HE been naturally looked at immediately as it was basically on his land and I added that to the thoughts of my ex, you'd be darned right I'd say that not clear figure on the bridge was HIM and be calling not the tip line but the direct number to say this was MY EX!. BUT my ex didn't own the adjoining land...

I'm sorry but I dismiss them entirely for that reason. We all KNOW that figure and video, Libby as awesome as she was to get it, is not alone a lynch pin as it could be a lot of people. So how they could say it was RL with certainty is a joke. The walk and hands in pocket is my ex. The jeans and the way they fit are work jeans of my ex. The shirt as well. Roundpeg is right in that some of this is ANY midwestern man or most.

I will say though none of them are as fully layered and dressed such as this on a day such as this. He is layered and head down and hat etc. on because he wants to hide who he is.

Is that for witnesses not to be able to describe and name measily (because he wouldn't have known Libby would record) or is it because the girls were expecting someone else like Anthony Shots? Or because of both?

Anyhow as you know I've never been fully sold on Logan but have never dismissed it. But he was cleared and I don't buy at ALL that he is BG. He couldn't help owning the land and that is HARD to ignore that this is where it happened basically PLUS add in his lies and he muddled this case big time and yes, both those things together still play in my head. Tresir says let him RIP and I think Roundpeg has said that at times as well. Well I don't think we are affecting him where he is and I will say to the end of time his choice of lying did this to him. I'm not blaming, it is a FACT. Plus the two who said THAT IS HIM! Of course that is hard to ignore!

And I haven't ruled out his involvement but I think it more unlikely as we go on.

I am not a male. You are. You aren't 70 or whatever he was but do you truly think someone his age was like active in something like this whether a pedo ring or O thing to where he wants to be physically in on the act when the man just wants to drive and drink and not get arrested again..?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Pretty sure they had an axe to grind, too.

I agree or if not an axe, a reason to wonder about the secrecy they probably dealt with in knowing him. Secrets lead to suspicion. I posted about my ex, it is what it does, you know they are hell bent on hiding something serious but can't determine what it is and if you can, you wonder if they are hiding more serious things... And yes, or, they had an axe to grind. I dismiss them entirely.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

RL's timeline was attempted to be drastically changed by him. We don't know where he really was. When asked to say "Guys, down the hill." by a reporter he goes high pitch on the word hill. Why?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Could be the reason the girls were there - expecting to meet Anthony Shots. Also some people say RA used to work at Chrysler, same as father of KK.

Well if true he certainly has quite the work history doesn't he? And there is the connection between the Ks and him or a start of one. I've heard other things through time but forge but yes they definitely could all have become connected.

I feel the girls were there to meet someone, likely Shots, or possibly they were too open online and dealing with more than one catfisher and each saw what they said. All it would take is Libby posting somewhere all excited that she is going to meet this hot male model at a bridge in IN and WHO may have seen it, etc.

All should take a moment and think of that and how naive they/we/most are at that age, I don't care how much earlier we think they grow up these days or how they are too adult etc. but it is pure naivete to think some male model is interestd in you and going to meet you on a trail in IN. And now we have the internet where well it can be a very bad place for children and predators.

I am mad at LE for one thing. From the start, just the age of these girls, what happened, the pic of Abby being a Snapchat thing, their almost burning desire to go to the bridge, staying up most of the night before together and likely on the phone, computer, chrome book or internet, and then what always bothered me is Libby's phone had to be reset as she had problems with it and that is why grandma couldn't do a location thing because the app wasn't on it, I thought big time from early on that this related to the internet but LE came right out over time and said NO, they have determined that nothing that way played in. I GET keeping things in an investigation on the down low but have to wonder how many at that time in the early days had they known that knew more or had seen more or talked privately with the girls, etc...

I am pages behind but see, we come back to the Shots thing and KK a lot and it still cannot be ignored. I have not excluded that at all and in some way it is going to connect imo. I think RA even with the photo development thing should not be ignored. CSAM people would love to have someone be able to privately develop or copy etc...

I do think they thought someone else would be there. Probably Shots. And there may have been some private conversation as to you know, I'm so famous, I am going to have to come disguised etc. I mean that sounds ridiculous but so is naive young girls thinking a hot model is truly interested in them. I am NOT dissing the girls, man I remember the naivete of that age, it is what CSAMs do and use and go for.

It isn't the Os unless some Os are also CSAbusers. The Os I dismiss entirely.

KK and the pedo thing is not out the window. That one logically plays in. To this day.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Thanks. Can't tell if that theory (the murders = a CSAM gone wrong) has been discarded or not.
They've eliminated physical SA evidence, I assume - given no such charges?
I suppose Luttrell's expertise would apply regardless, given that the victims clothes were removed.

I think his experience would apply regardless even to a sexually deviant motivated crime where SA never occurred as that isn't unheard of. There is a sexual or deviant component to this whether SA occurred or not. RA has one child. Maybe the man has issues and only dreams of children instead of bedding a wife "do it for him" but then when he acted out this fantasy it didn't go as planned and/or he wasn't capable. Or they or one was SAed, there is much we don't know. BUT and I detest talking of such things, it is also likely he got off so to speak just in the pain and control he inflicted and has that to relive in his mind. They don't need the act necessarily do they? They may fantasize about it but the thrill is really in like in this case the control and making some vulnerable naive girls undress and more with him with the POWER in his meaningless life with his nagging controlling wife. In his opinion. He wanted some power. Poor guy. Can't do it against adult women so children, yah, he can be the big TALL macho man. I am not dissing height, I am saying he had an issue with it most likely and he like so many of these types was Mr. Henpecked\controlled at home and married and had one child just to hide his deviant desires. I don't see Allen much different than LISK or Dennis Rader. A lot differs of course but sick individuals.

Someone who has dealt with such cases or types no mater the reason would be a good choice imo here. This is killing of children. With a sexual component whether he did the deed or not in my mind doesn't play in. The thrill comes from the control and the power. He probably went home and for years in his only way possible got off on the memories. Yes, that's being a bit blunt. It doesn't have to mean anything more than that. Children. Abuse. CSAM. Well it is all here or relates.

I picture BK in the Idaho 4 similar. He went home and to this day gets off on what he did and the fear he invoked and the sheer POWER he had. Thinks himself a big macho man. So did RA after this. His sheer POWER.

Okay. I'd better stop.

Back to the point, what is questionable about hiring someone with such experience? Hopefully he has seen it all with this type and gets what drives them, etc. It doesn't even have to mean there is CASM or they were SAed. Not sure why there needs to be any of that for this appointment/hiring to make sense?

 

[GrandmaBear]

BTW he has a history prior to 2019 with all sorts of cases. Civil, misdemeanor, felony. So prior to 2019 he wasn't necessarily specializing. Just additional info.

Yeah, i don't know why it has to have some specifically connected meaning to like whether the girls were SAed or not. They hired or appointed or brought in someone experienced and not some guy who never passed the bar. I don't get the questions on this or why it has to mean whether there was CASM or the girls were SAed. Either way he sounds like he comes with a lot of experience to take this on.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I wonder if he had child porn on his computer.

 

[Tresir]

I don't think LE found a connection between KK and the murders or KK and Allen or Allen and either of those two profiles or any other.
Regardless, the theory of a conspiracy has never made sense to me.

I am pretty sure they did as they searched his Canal St property very early on - within days or weeks IIRC. The connection was the Anthony Shots profile. Libby was thinking that's who they were meeting IMO.

 

[Tresir]

IF the words were separated and not said together at the same time, do we know this? it could be in between he was racking the gun, and perhaps saying why he was doing this, giving graphic detail to the girls of what he was going to do to them, and any other of a myriad of things that they don't want the public to know, just as we were never given graphic details like cause of death or the way the bodies were, injuries, etc. Only the defense outs that kind of stuff. Smh.

No we don't know this, I am surmising.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Invitation to a podcast (Bob Motta's "Defense Diaries" youtube channel) with the attorney (Cara Wieneke) who wrote the 2 writs motions for the SCOIN w/ RA as "Relator" and JG and "Respondent". Also Sleuthie Goosie. Maybe Ali Motta, (Bob's wife?!) lol.

Starts live at 7 pm EST. Like in 10 minutes. It will probably be available non-live later on as well. Maybe you'll join me?

No thanks. I tried this channel and even promoted it in on here not long ago mostly because they had some breaking document and the woman on the show gave a good balance I felt on first view, the man does not. And then watched another two I think. No thanks.

Bob Motta no thanks didn't have an opinion of him one way or the other until recently on a Court TV thing, he never really has been of note to me but surely have seen him before but then I don't watch a lot of news with intentional controversy and an interest in keeping things that way just so there is more news from what they cause.

Gee really? A new defense attorney ON a YT show? What IS this double standard? Stanley in Morphew as a DA was and is under fire for going on a show and in responding to another. In LISK many think it was wrong for the police commissioner to do a PC with victim attorney Ray. On Duty Ron the Cal City Police Chief agreed to be on and it was allh hyped but then he bailed I am going to guess because he was told you DO NOT do THAT.

Defense however can huh? Defense can also file things omitting anything that would hurt their client which would be called a lie if the other side did it.

Watch out for what is going on with YT and other SM AND news and people's podcasts coming together with agendas from at least some. I have long thought there needs to be a bridge and better understanding from LE and the judicial system and the "people" but not this. I'm serious, watch out for it. And watch out for "news" trying to take over such platforms as they were failing and real life people were and are doing a better job at reporting the facts and both sides.

I have a LOT I could say about this but am stopping myself.

I watch three or four excellent defense lawyer channels who do not have to stick with defense but call it as they see it and often in a case it is right in, they fully say the person is guilty and the prosecution did a great job. They call it as they see it with no agenda and they don't have the word "defense" in their channel name.

It is ironic most defense whine about pretrial publicity but here they are creating their own. Not just in this case. And WHILE the prosecution stays "mum".

 

[Tresir]

I wonder if he had child porn on his computer.

Who RA.? I would not be surprised. KK had loads on his devices. KK factory reset a lot of his devices to try and hide it. Didn't Libby's phone get factory reset also?
Does anyone know if RA's work computer was seized?

 

[Tresir]

No thanks. I tried this channel and even promoted it in on here not long ago mostly because they had some breaking document and the woman on the show gave a good balance I felt on first view, the man does not. And then watched another two I think. No thanks.

Bob Motta no thanks didn't have an opinion of him one way or the other until recently on a Court TV thing, he never really has been of note to me but surely have seen him before but then I don't watch a lot of news with intentional controversy and an interest in keeping things that way just so there is more news from what they cause.

Gee really? A new defense attorney ON a YT show? What IS this double standard? Stanley in Morphew as a DA was and is under fire for going on a show and in responding to another. In LISK many think it was wrong for the police commissioner to do a PC with victim attorney Ray. On Duty Ron the Cal City Police Chief agreed to be on and it was allh hyped but then he bailed I am going to guess because he was told you DO NOT do THAT.

Defense however can huh? Defense can also file things omitting anything that would hurt their client which would be called a lie if the other side did it.

Watch out for what is going on with YT and other SM AND news and people's podcasts coming together with agendas from at least some. I have long thought there needs to be a bridge and better understanding from LE and the judicial system and the "people" but not this. I'm serious, watch out for it. And watch out for "news" trying to take over such platforms as they were failing and real life people were and are doing a better job at reporting the facts and both sides.

I have a LOT I could say about this but am stopping myself.

I watch three or four excellent defense lawyer channels who do not have to stick with defense but call it as they see it and often in a case it is right in, they fully say the person is guilty and the prosecution did a great job. They call it as they see it with no agenda and they don't have the word "defense" in their channel name.

It is ironic most defense whine about pretrial publicity but here they are creating their own. Not just in this case. And WHILE the prosecution stays "mum".

This shouldn't be allowed IMO. Trial by media. I will wait for the real trial. These lawyers are all starstruck.

 

[GrandmaBear]

For Cuz, and all, the sex ring theory. Could explain the new prosecution expert too.

Murdered Delphi teens were 'victims of botched kidnapping plot'

Murder suspect Richard Allen, 50, (left) was allegedly part of a child sex ring that planned to kidnap murdered teens Liberty German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It is Daily Mail one has to realize.

BUT I have not excluded such a thought. I can wonder with Cuz on a few things and would hope we all can. There is just too much with the KK thing to ignore. There is SOME connection to KK and whether big or minor or incidental, there is something.

And the pedo thing makes sense, the O thing on the other hand is ridiculous although I suppose a member or two of the pedo ring may be an O or whatever but the O thing is NOT IT imo.

But again it IS DM who plays off of what imo they see all on the net discuss BUT the whole KK debacle and facts cannot be ignored.

The biggest problem with emu's theory is he places RL as BG. For that to be true, they have to be such a group of masterminds with such a thought out plan and RA purposely putting himself in RL's place and what, giving him his car? Etc., etc. There is just so much that shows it is RA that is BG. Now from THERE Emu, other things are possible, it was him alone or it wasn't. But if you would accept it was HIM and he was at the top and on the bridge and he had the gun, etc., and walked back to his car, etc. then the est of it is wide open and possible imo.

I lean these days to this is a one man sick fantasy crime but that doesn't mean it wasn't meant to be otherwise and that I can entertain. Or that it was a group thing POSSIBLY and they weren't killed that afternoon even. I have and I CAN. But for me, RA has to be the guy on the bridge or there is just way too much to overcome or these drinking men (RA and RL for starters), seemingly simple living men and add in KK, pulled off such a confusing plan that it belies all. They are not that smart if it was a "they". RL had to try to get someone to lie for him after the fact. RA had to come forward as he worried with those that saw him maybe could identify him, etc.

There are some very REAL questions that remain that hopefully are put to bed in trial and when we know more. I won't argue that. But I think it is very established that RA is BG and whether he acted alone or not, THAT part has us the perpetrator. Or one.

It isn't Logan and can't be unless RA and RL were both on the bridge. Yet Libby only caught one? No.

It is RA. He came forward out of fear someone may have recognized him BEFORE he was alone with the girls in the woods. And/or that his car was seen. And/or that someone recognized him as he walked on the road, etc.

RA IS BG. Let go of thinking otherwise and your thoughts are possible. Just saying...

 

[GrandmaBear]

From the 2019 press release in Olenna's link -

"New hire to supervise DCS litigation division
Former prosecutor touts 35 years’ trial court experience
INDIANAPOLIS (Jan. 14, 2019) – The Indiana Department of Child Services announces Jim Luttrull, Jr. as
its new deputy general counsel of the litigation division. Luttrull, a former prosecutor and criminal
justice professor, will oversee and manage all functions of the DCS litigation department.
“I look forward to joining Director Terry Stigdon’s team and meeting the unprecedented challenges
facing Indiana's vulnerable children,” Luttrull said. “I commit to bringing all the lessons I’ve learned and
skills I’ve developed to help make Indiana Department of Child Service lawyers and case managers even
more effective as a team of child protection professionals.”
Luttrull will focus on reducing attorney turnover, while also advising agency lawyers who are new to
working in child welfare.
“Hiring Jim is part of our commitment to strengthen our evolving litigation department,” Stigdon said.
“He will be a leader, trainer, coach and mentor to the lawyers who are responsible for going into court
to protect Hoosier children.”
Luttrull is a seasoned trial lawyer with 35 years’ experience, most recently as Grant County prosecutor, a
position he has held since 2003. He formerly served in the same office as a deputy prosecutor
and the chief deputy prosecutor since returning to Marion in 1983. Much of his work focused on the
prosecution of child abuse and the training and mentoring of prosecutors, child protection workers and
law enforcement officials who respond to child abuse cases.
Dave Powell, executive director of the Indiana Prosecuting Attorneys Council, touted Luttrull’s prior
accomplishments, including the Association of Indiana Prosecuting Attorneys’ Eugene “Shine” Feller
Award for outstanding service.“Jim is highly respected by his peers as a trial lawyer,” Powell said. “He is a tremendous choice to lead
the DCS litigation department.” "

So that answers what I have wondered, is he there and a hired hand for all or just as a special prosecutor for this case as they had in Daybell...

Makes perfect sense, nothing odd about it then. Never thought there was but it did seem some may have thought it was odd or that his background means something very specific to this case. I think I already said this is a child abuse and kidnapping and murder case even if he was brought on for just that. These children were kidnapped, abused, controlled in a way i don't want to think of as to how frightening like made to undress, etc. at their age and who knows what else and then slaughtered. Yeah I'd say that's child abuse. AS for the CSAM ting it follows or the experience would certainly help with it. This was a crime that was someone's fantasy whether sex acts occurred or not. We all know for some that is abuse, bondage, control, etc., etc. that is enough of that, that is their thrill and need. And this case REEKS of that.