LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
In the last couple of days I took another look at the Frank's Motion and I cannot see how they think that will fly.

They have named 3 guys who committed the murders, in their view, based on the fact they are Vinlanders and fannied about with runes and sticks in their spare time. They ignored alibis those people might have and do not explain where they parked and arrived or left, or why witnesses didn't see them.

I am hoping the prosecution debunks it at some point.

Merry Christmas all.
That's what's been said pretty much. Agree. They fail to place them there or talk of where they actually were known to be, etc. and more.

Merry Christmas to you and all.
 
This is such a hot mess of a case. Sometimes you gotta shake all the frustration out!

Appreciate y'all sharing new bits of info, your views, some noodling.
I've popped in here more this past week as things grew holiday-slow to do the same.
We don't always share the same perspective - but we do share! That's a good thing.

BTW: I have to be traveling in the new year; no worries if I'm not around after holidays ...

This case should go quiet ... until SCOIN decides. Then we shall see.

If SCOIN decides against RA's 2nd writ, RA could still bring further appeals pre-trial.
Judge Gull opened more than one appeal door; they haven't even been to the appellate yet ...
It's Christmas. Just have a Merry Christmas. Enjoy.
 
To clarify:

I'm sharing (quickly) a Murder Sheet episode on the "leaks" where Murder Sheet and "reported" (basically MS's words and explanations - not mine).
The comments are MS's. They don't criticize RF, instead they share their research of RF's activity online and in texts w/ Mark, their source.

If you have time to listen ... you'll see.
You can judge for yourself.

MS reviews RF's reddit posts. They review the Mark-RF screen shots. They incorporate the recent Westerman-related affidavits.
MS obviously interviewed Mark. Much earlier, they interviewed Westerman.

MS concludes that RF/Mark's back and forth texts show their motive is to promote "transparency" and "correct bad info" about the Delphi investigation on reddit, vlogs, etc.

"not catastrophic" - also from MS. As such: a feared catastrophic consequence of the leaks never materialized.

MS previously interviewed Westerman and holds the view of Westerman as a soundboard for Baldwin - as legal colleagues and as friends.

(My thought (rather than MS): Westerman's reason for sharing with RF is unknown and unexplored by MS. Due to LE investigation -we'd expect LE has digital records of Westerman comms with RF - and LE has determined "motive". Also my thought: The charges suggest LE concluded no criminal conspiracy.)

Have a peaceful holiday Tresir!
I don't know that LE has concluded it yet or that we know LE's conclusion if they have one yet . I know and you have said yourself you are no MS proponent.

Wishing all a Merry Christmas.
 
I thought you said RF was a victim and victims should not be attacked. Yet you seem to be attacking in this post?

You also say you don't like conspiracy theories but seem to suggest one between RF and MW. Convenient when one of the conspiracists can no longer be asked.

MW has hired a lawyer so he will be going to court or negotiating a plea deal IMO.

I cannot believe you said this -

"and nothing remotely catastrophic came from the theft"
Good points.

And one person can certainly no longer be asked.
 
With all due respect, the above quoted post describes a conspiracy ... right after you deny doing conspiracies.

A conspiracy = secret plan or agreement made by a group of people to carry out an illegal, harmful, or unlawful act, or to achieve a particular goal through deceitful or dishonest means:

Legally, conspiracy refers two or more individuals coming together to plan and commit a criminal act. The crime of conspiracy does not require the actual completion of the intended illegal act but focuses on the agreement or plan to commit the act.

A conspiracy theory = belief or explanation that suggests that events or situations are the result of a secret, often sinister, and deliberately deceptive plot by a group of people or organizations. Conspiracy theories typically propose that the true causes or explanations of events are being hidden from the public, and that there is an intentional effort to deceive or manipulate perceptions.

I stand by my observation: you're speculating a conspiracy theory. I don't mind theories of the case but when they go goofy and pointless, I'm out.

Don't listen to me; follow the "journalists":
Likely Murder Sheet got the full story from their source and friend Mark and from LE. Mark delivered crime scene photos to MS and many others, as to motive of those involved this weird gambit. Kevin acted as his attorney, Anya as his mama. Then they did their research on the leaks, those involved, and they report.

So, MS knows the story and so does LE and we're not hearing anything more about it. MS thinks all relevant parties/witnesses have been interviewed, Westerman's affidavit absolves everyone else, he's been charged with the lesser of several options, it's his first offense, all done investigation, the old D is not involved in the leak, nobody got paid nothin', MS continues to protect RF out of "respect for the family".

RF/Mark/Westerman update thanks to Murder Sheet "leaks" episode:


You may be interested !! MS debunks old D conspiracy theories on the leaks.

The Baldwin/Westerman relationship is a long one, Baldwin/Westerman kept in touch after Westerman left the law practice. Nothing weird about that.
Westerman betrayal by sharing discovery with RF - so weird - he messed up so very very badly trusting RF. And wow the fallout!! I do think Westerman's a very odd duck ... but MS reports that RF was impersonating Westerman to a degree.
See the Murder Sheet reporting (murder sheet on "leaks" episode I linked above) for their RF/Westerman roles in the leaks. It's not a long podcast. (I'm thinking there's more to learn there - such as RF's relationship with Westerman and his online presence and did Westerman know what RF was doing with the shared info?) That detail may not come out unless Westerman goes to trial.

Murder Sheet sees to think RF was stoked being important and respected on Delphi social media; and it's hard to believe but .... perhaps there's your leak motive. RF pretending he consulted for the defense, (when in fact it was Westerman who did that). Forget the money motive, they want the LIKES.

Next topic - Apart from the old D leaks conspiracy theory ... I'm takin' umbrage at wholesale slurring of an entire profession - AHEM:
It is not accurate, reasonable, or remotely fair to make a generalization about the integrity of an entire profession, including lawyers.
The vast majority of lawyers are dedicated professionals who adhere to ethical standards and work to uphold the law.

Painting an entire group with a broad brush based on the actions of a few individuals who make the news is weird. And naive.
Lawyers making the news as corrupt are politicians. They've stopped being lawyers at that point. Noting that lawyers turned politician can be excellent public servants; they just don't make the news ... or they're on the news as commentators...

Professional conduct and ethical standards are essential components of the legal profession; the legal system has many mechanisms in place to address and discipline lawyers who engage in unethical or illegal behavior. Lawyers are bound by codes of conduct, and those who violate ethical standards may face disciplinary action, including suspension or disbarment, which is tantamount to decimating one's own career and earning ability.

That being said, lawyers can make critical errors and oversights and in those cases, the only group qualified to investigate and assess the degree of intent or negligence of said errors are others in the same profession ... lawyers.

Lawyers who zealously represent their clients and do legal somersaults ... are doing their job. Lawyers who lie ... are not.


Baldwin's Broken Document management:
Throughout, I've never cut Baldwin a break for sloppy security practices for his conference room and case files for this matter. No, I don't think Baldwin's office security breakdown = an intentional Baldwin-led conspiracy to deliver some super juicy crime scene photos to a handful of low life vloggers that will magically change the course of the trial.

I too find fault w/ Baldwin's poor administrative security practice - but that's old news - and nothing remotely catastrophic came from the theft - and a common affliction in small law offices with limited admin support (my opinion) - I don't need to repeat it every week.
It's sloppy oversight; not intentional (as Baldwin has explained in filings). Doesn't mean I excuse it.

To be honest, I just don't think it meets the bar for gross negligence. Neither does Gull. Gull had to compile a list, to add to the "leak", to support gross negligence. Meh. Weak sauce, IMO.

I don't fault Baldwin for consulting w/ long-time colleague and friend Westerman. No one's ever brought this up as a problem in papers at SCOIN filings (neither side) because that stuff is totally normal in law circles.

It's true:
Boy do I find Gull to be super annoying, like fingers on a chalkboard for me. I've had to fire a couple of nightmares at work like Gull and I can smell 'em coming. They're toxic and you gotta get rid of them immediately. They make everyone miserable. So not quite PTSD, but the hair goes up. And HELL NO it's not my saint of a mother. I've said my peace as to my radar on Gull being a lazy hot mess maker. Get her off that bench!

Sorry, not sorry. True that most the other players don't ring my toxic bell. Yet. :cowbell:

JMHO.

I know now how my long posts get to people because I gave up trying to keep this one on screen to reply to each part of it. So I stand here guilty of same lol.

I don't think I've ever talked money motive first of all. What I see is case and fame motive.

And now you quote and cite MS when you were the one so down on MS it wasn't even funny.

I'm not talking of just big name political attorneys, my goodness. They abound everywhere. I'm sure there' a few in Espstein's black book and we can all name dirty in just known cases. You talk out of one side of your mouth of judging an entire group but then you do it as they are all good.

All attorneys are good other than I guess the few political big news ones. Huh? Not so.

You say one thing about what I or some say and then turn around and do it yourself with judging one group, or thinking conspiracy or whatever. In the opposite direction of course.

You think prosecution, ex parte and Gull are all some conspiracy for instance.

So you think the two leakers were doing this for likes and Baldwin had nothing to do with anything and it isn't bigger than that? Lol. So the guy killed self when he realized his likes would disappear?

Baldwin did far more than consult with a long term colleague. First of all he is not a colleague. He's a washed out non bar passing former employee with a girlfriend and a wife.

And there are plenty of unethical and rotten attorneys out there.

Nails on chalkboard for me are Baldwin and Rozzi, can't stand up in the courtroom, back door it, get vulnerable client to support them, etc.

I do enjoy the debate. I don't agree basically at all though.

I've even said I'm fine with them ALL going but you can't quite do that.

Baldwin is dirty. Yep it's an opinion. It's my opinion. And it would take one heckuva lot to shake it.

I don't have a conspiracy theory. Those are on the other side with Os and guards and the things you cited here, etc.

I do VERY MUCH ENJOY the debate without offense so never take it personally :)

And I truly do wish you a Merry Christmas.
 
Oh I forgot to place my "bet". Maybe it's a "wish". We'll see.

Rozzi, Baldwin return - RA has chosen them as his pro bono lawyers; RA has a constitutional right 🇺🇸 to the representation of his choice. :spikeshorse:
(maybe old D returns as PD b/c Gull can't do what she did to them as PD ... but preventing Rozzi & Baldwin as pro-bono can't be argued w/ a straight face.)

and, consequently, we shall say: Bye Bye Birdie :runningaway: due to appearance of conflict
I don't care if I'm wrong but my guess if fair is that a lot of this will be remanded to the local level/court.

I think if anyone goes it will be Baldwin.

There is a lot of question of impropriety. He is a lawyer with plenty of boo boos and can't employe basic security and ethics standards. He is a high risk and has shown it.

Rozzi stands by him and should go too although they may come back lighter on that.

They may or may not admonish Gull and advise but I don't think they will come down on her over much, remove or admonish harshly.

Just guesses of course. If I am wrong I will eat crow and let you feed it to me. I likely still won't agree or ever agree but will take it while mouthing off on it lol.

I even think for perception's sake and public trust maybe all need to go but it is interesting to me you won't even agree to that. I don't think all should but i they are going to clean house, then clean the whole house.

I do wish arguments in the higher court were televised/live. Such should be the case.
 
that reminds me ... recent AG news:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/poli...l-todd-rokita-disciplinary-charges/index.html




I think the answer's in the affidavit.
All the photos are all crime scene photos.
In interview, Baldwin recalls which crime scene photos may have been laid out on a conference table the day Westerman committed his conversion crime.

Side by side = a format of 2 crime scene photos on the same page. Affidavit clarifies why those were 2 to a page: Baldwin explains the 2 photos per page are crime scene photos copied 2 on a page by the old D for the purpose of depositions old D conducted (likely w/ LE).

(BTW, these (of LE as witness) are the depositions - under oath - as conducted by the old D - are referenced in and attached to the Franks Memo & Exhibits.)
No offfense but I'm not even going to comment to this one. There's a judge named Gull. And then totally aside from that there are very gullible people. No relation between the two whatsoever. Here it is gullible to no end.
 
I think we should take bets whether Baldwin or Gull will go. I bet it will be B. She has the AG on her side.
So you think Allen is wrongfully charged? And think one IN case means all are corrupt with no basis? I read your link, it gives no case details. In this one, this man WAS there. His bullet and gun evidence match. Etc. Is that the same in the case you cite?
 
Sadly, this is the way things go in Indiana... wonder how many
decades it will be after they con-vince a jury to convict innocent
man Richard Allen, that he will have to endure in prison before
he is released.
So IN is bad news all the way around? Not doubting, but wondering, and would like to know?
 
I think we should take bets whether Baldwin or Gull will go. I bet it will be B. She has the AG on her side.
If it is a fair higher court, B will go and Gull will stay. WIth perhaps some remanding a thing or two to the local level with some direction/instruction.

Personally I think Rozzi should go too.
 
Ironically, Gull won an award for her work improving Indiana court proceeding's public accessibility and openness.
They may have to come and retract it.

jk jk
In all lightness and forgive the description, you have a real hard on towards Gull. Personally I think you have blinders on in both directions on both sides but in opposite views. The blinders are rose colored glasses when it comes to Old D.

I do very much enjoy the debate lol. :D

And I'm jk jk too. Lol.
 
Clipped BM

Correct.
Yes, many work for me.
All mine are.
Lost. Many work for you and all are mobsters? You are the Godmother and they work for you and you only? :D

Or you just employi and use a lot of attorneys?

No thank you to any life that would involve that.

If you know a lot of stellar ones though, please help others and provide recommendations and names.

If two of them are the names Rozzi or Baldwin, please omit.

Thank you.

Are we having fun yet? :D
 
I am getting there could be something else that we don't know. RF is the guy who committed suicide. I am not aware that the investigation against the leak or even the suicide has been closed so if anyone has a link showing that, it would be appreciated.

I am pretty sure that Gull is an award winning judge from my memory when I looked into her record, because I was surprised.

I didn't know RA was a vet too. So he has something in common with MW and RF and the O's, I guess.

Is RA a SK? He is the suspect in a double murder at age 56 so he could also have hitherto unknown prior victims. Why did they move from Peru to Delphi, I wonder? Are there any unsolved murders in The Peru area?

Probably enough questions for now, anyway.
I can follow your thoughts here well and have similiar. Gull has a great reputation and @Imamazed has remarked on it recently. When she was appointed just about everyone here and elsewhere looked into here and were happy to hear it when the male judge stepped down out of fear etc.

I have no reason to think the leak investigation has ended. Or that of the suicide. It seems to be assumed by many but I think both may be the reason for throwing a bunch more sh*t on offense by Old D. Hard to say...

If RA did these crimes, which I believe he did, I do believe he is an SK or SK type.

Good questions with their moves and more. I have many of the same. Identical almost. We don't always agree but I do here on this one.
 
clipped by me - quick point to make

yes.

Okay, look.

I reject the idea that Baldwin relies on a decompensating dude he fired months and months ago for a secret dangerous mission as sheer nonsense.

Here's the broad perspective:

By all appearances, Baldwin is a social extrovert type guy with a big personality and a big heart. READ HIS WEBSITE.

Westerman is no catch for a law firm. Here's a vet that worked his way through law school , got through and graduated, but can't pass the bar. I probably would not hire a project like Westerman. To hire this kind of guy into your firm as a paralegal - is an act of kindness, empathy, community service, patriotism, and faith. And that's okay. Westerman never progressed beyond paralegal. MS interview sounds like Westerman lost interest in even trying to pass the bar. Wants out of the law biz. The MS interview confirms Westerman is no longer working in the law. (Note: Non-descript as to what work MW does now.) Westerman sounds like he misses Baldwin.

YET here's the weird thing: Westerman (apparently) keeps visiting Baldwin.
This isn't Baldwin visiting Westerman.
Is this Baldwin being supportive, (I wonder?)

IMO, Baldwin released Westerman with the understanding Westerman was a friend and he could visit anytime. Westerman moved out of town. New job. But Westerman took the visiting condition seriously and they still talk shop.

So, he regularly visits Papa Baldwin, tells Baldwin he's visiting his girlfriend. (Note: While he's married.) (IMO, Westerman has a TMI tendency.)
MS says Marc showed them screen shots - Screen shots where RF suggests Baldwin consults w/ Westerman on RA case.

Bullhockey, IMO that Baldwin expects Westerman to leak. For me, it seems like Westerman is decompensating with all this oversharing.
For me it is incredulous that Baldwin would leak the crime scene photos to a bunch of loser vloggers as some sort of case jackpot.
And it's even more incredulous that Baldwin would task the dude he released from his firm to oversee a leak operation that brings even more unvetted bozos into a secret circle.

PS. What's up w/ believing when RA confesses but not believing when Westerman does????? LOLOL

It's crazymakin' this case! JMHO
Lol. Released or fired. And even if a nice guy you have a law office and a HUGE case and he is welcome to just come and go and wander all over. Okay....

As far as reading any attorney's website that means nothing to me. I can refer you to a few in cases many of us have followed.... Bertolino in Petito. Drew and Iris in Morphew and more. Means nothing the way they talk themselves up verus what is seen.

Serious question, just a SINGLE one, who drafted that mess of an unprofessional O filing? Baldwin? Rozzi?

You apparently know and employ all sorts of attorneys and is this the way they write/draft docs?

No it isn't Baldwin visiting MW, why would he, all the stuff was at his office as what was needed but that being said, how would we know he never visited him when he was with is gf or his wife or alone?

I've said it over and over and over in this case, look at the TIMING.

And don't forget this wasn't the FIRST boo boo by this bunch.

He wouldn't risk MW, it is MW that visits him, Papa Baldwin, etc. you say BUT he bounces facts and case info off of him. Okay.... HUH....?

Again you are playing it both ways. Baldwin would never be dumb enough, etc., etc. to do such but then he would be dumb enough to bounce things off of MW, etc. and let him come in and roam his offices.

Are you not? Do you not see that?
 
Well they would say that wouldn't they? I just don't believe them. I think they have been scrabbling to cover there a*ses to avoid disbarrment JMO.
Oh my so apt and well said. That's how I see it too and they are playing and using Allen to cover their arses. And he is likely happy to just have attorneys that have made wave and garnered sympathy and publicity for his rights. They are BAD news. BAD, BAD news.

Boy we don't always agree, but I see this exactly the same way. I also think he was done and WANTED to confess but they could NOT have that! Not for his sake and what he wanted but for theirs. They disgust me.
 
Ok, thanks, I understand now - that is Defence requesting their reinstatement against her findings of gross negligence. The gross negligence presumably being leaving Crime Scene photos laying around on a conference room table for 7 weeks.
As one of the many things she referenced that they'd had second chances for before.
 
Yes and technically, that is Allen requesting the D's reinstatement - reversing Gull's decision to dump the D.

Gull describes that "gross negligence" is not one event but several events; she suggests these disparate events cumulate to = gross negligence.:coffee:


(Don't forget (also in papers) Baldwin/Rozzi met with Allen to apologize and explain the leak, the potential negatives of crime scene photo release, the LE investigation on the leak, disclosed the D's potential conflicts in the event of an ongoing leaks investigation, asked him if he had any concerns, ask if he still wanted to continue with them, Allen signed a waiver of conflicts over the leak investigation arise. )
Of course they did. And of course Allen did.
 
LOL. This is fun.
I'm betting you'd never eyeroll wearing a robe holding a gavel from the bench in front of national cameras ... She's not doing that intentionally. She's all simmering emotion up there. She needs yoga and deep breathing training.

It's my sense that Gull works from fear which is expressed through disdain. Her inability to unemotionally manage her Court - even the clerk - suggests this case is just too much for her to handle. I don't envy her. I get there's good reason for fear. Whoever is the Judge this case must endure, must be up for the public interest/spotlight/harsh criticism. It's intimidating. Gull sat on the bench reaching out/leaning on the P to opine on the old D. That was incredibly unprofessional and inappropriate. Next we see Gull trying to make her Court environment more supportive with the move to replace old D with her known, local colleagues/friends. That's clearly seeking relief from her discomfort on the bench.

I expect the SC won't rule on emotion or personality but the outcomes and appearances of these things; they'll rule on facts and they'll judge ethics, conflicts, impartiality, integrity, fairness and on top of all that ... the appearance of all those things.

I hope the new D has been released from ordered psych counseling for rage in the workplace.

I can't help you with Allen; not enough info.
He's a vet.
He self medicates w/ alcohol.
Might be an alcoholic.
He has a loving relationship with his wife and his mother.

From the above, you've got him figured for a CSA serial killer.
For me, that's a huge leap.
And per nationally known profiler takes on RA ... also a huge leap.
I can help you with this:
Prison confessions on the phone to family members under medication and/or duress ... if later denied rather than reinforced with confessions to one's counsel or other authority ... are frequently overcome in court. Official Westville prison abuse reports speak louder than RA's medicated phone calls.

Baldwin's a creative turned litigator. Read his website. He explains his mission and approach well. (I know a few litigators similar to Baldwin.)
Rozzi's a technician. (my favorite type of lawyer)
Neither of the above are toxic personalities.

I've made it clear that it's absurd to discuss RF accusing him of criminalities etc. He's not a POI nor a witness. He's a victim. They have rules around these threads about attacking victims.

Listen to Murder Sheet's interview with Westerman. He's one attention-needy guy trying to live vicariously through Baldwin. Basic, easy, childish stuff.

Murder Sheet worked overtime to get immunity for their buddy Mark, the REAL leaker. Mark, the dude that actually sent crime scene photos to tons of vloggers. It might be more interesting to do a psych profile on Murder Sheet for having that creep as their source for Delphi.

The gangs posing/covering/"loyalty-bonding" as an O-brotherhood - some of them POIs in the Delphi case - some of them already in prison or out with time served for other violent crimes - are gang members. Garden variety criminals. Simple stuff. See motorcycle gang. What's to diagnose?

Murders "staged" as something else ... such as a fire ... or like a ritual ... are just murders. It's not that complicated. Purpose is to distract/confuse the investigation/truth. Sometimes it works such that figuring out the motive ... getting to the truth ... is quite complicated. But you already know this.

I have to go be nice and not naughty now. 48 hours should do it, right? Hope you enjoy your celebrations ever so much Gran! 🎅
Since I am pages behind I looked back and even though I apparently saw and responded to this one, it brought other thoughts.

Yoga and deep breathing really? Lol. Yeah that fixes all. My complex got rid of a hot tub room and more and replaced with a yoga room. I'm less than thrilled. It takes a certain type I guess who is such a nervous Nellie and buys that such will help all wrong in life. Not me. Lol.

Again you only have vision with Gull apparently and blinders with Old D.

I personally know women who there is always an excuse for the men and I have to wonder if that is you too? You don't think yoga and deep breathing would benefit Old D? If they had balls, they'd have went into court that day and show it all for what you think it is/was. And fought it. Instead of slinking out the back door.

You say RA you can't help with but that he is a vet and self medicates with alcohol. Seems to be yet another excuse and reason for all others here.....

Tell me why would you say or agree, if anyone is gotten rid of, get rid of all and start with a clean slate? I don't even feel Gull should go but if something had to be done, then both need to go? But you won't.

MS I think is lucky they are not in the fray here quite honestly. You though both diss them and then quote and use them when needed to support your opinions.

I am not even going to touch the O thin as they have failed to show sh*t with that. It is ridiculous and if they can't place a single one of them there then I don't even entertain it and they can't displace Allen either.

Again who wrote that monstrosity f a filing?

And I'm going to keep repeating it. Timing. Timing. Timing. And desperation. Desperation. Desperation. Confessions. Confessions. Confessions. Leaks. Leaks. Leaks. And timing. OBVIOUS. OBVIOIUS. OBVIOUS.

I get ad nauseum but fortunately you are as bad or worse. Gull, Gull, Gull. Passive aggressive. Managing her court. Emotion. Over and over and over you say it.

I would have to ask yet again why you miss the obvious b.s. with the Old D. And don't point that out and out and out. Oh they're just men with hearts and a bit clueless right... Okayyyyy... First they are great attorneys but then their emotions are right ones and they just have hearts and it excuses ALL. Which is it....

I have a bias towards/on behalf of prosecution and against perps in most cases. I will admit it. You though have biases that you don't think you have imo.

As always no offense. And as always, I do enjoy the debate. Better than a dead thread.
 
CBM and BBM.

Wow, that's (bbm) naughty and not at all nice. I won't tell Santa, but you best hope he's busy working on the reindeer's reins and missed this post.

My goodness. My mother was a saint and devoted mother of a huge family and so many grandchildren and lived to give her love and support to all of us for 97 years and I cannot believe you just took the liberty of insulting her life's work as the bestest and most supportive mom on the planet ... in hopes of insulting and belittling me. Wow that's nuts. Go back and read what you wrote. Oh, you must be so embarrassed. I forgive you. And don't worry, it didn't work. :nope:
I said not a word about your mother. Unless Gull is your mother and failed you is what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. I know what I said and anyone can backtrack to look through this post as I did wondering what the heck you were talking about and if I said any such thing and I did not. Which I was sure of and know myself that well but double checked anyhow.

So knock it off. Lol.

Don't even tempt me to :catfight: :angry::impatient::fryingpan:

Seriously though, Merry Christmas. This is a day of peace.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,564
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom