LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I am getting there could be something else that we don't know. RF is the guy who committed suicide. I am not aware that the investigation against the leak or even the suicide has been closed so if anyone has a link showing that, it would be appreciated.

I am pretty sure that Gull is an award winning judge from my memory when I looked into her record, because I was surprised.
Ironically, Gull won an award for her work improving Indiana court proceeding's public accessibility and openness.
They may have to come and retract it.

jk jk
 
Here ya go!

The Delphi Murders: A March 2023 Interview with Alleged Delphi Leaker Mitch Westerman


have fun.

I haven't listened to this since we learned more about MW's involvements via court papers, affidavits, extra-marital affair, theft, arrest, divorce, and best friend's suicide, etc.

I won't listen again b/c it's real long slog.

But when I first listened, I left the podcast feeling like this Westerman dude ... is just off. I can't even believe he was anything more than ... maybe ... filings paralegal.

Here, MW is all stream of consciousness, repetitive, undisciplined unorganized, repetitive in some parts unable to close a point, sounds like he's high as a kite ... and it's no wonder he never passed the bar.

You may find yourself understanding why I find Westerman so, so very odd that it makes sense that Baldwin got him out of the firm, sighed in relief, and never gave him any work, let alone some super secret crime photo mission ... but Baldwin continued to accept his social visits knowing the man was decompensating and his world was falling apart.

I mean look at what Westerman destroyed after this MS interview:
law career, reputation, best friend, marriage, beloved colleague (Baldwin), and now he's charged with a crime.

I think it's not a stretch to say MW needs a diagnosis and meds/counseling.

Finally, I think it's completely illogical - for so many reasons - that the old D thought they needed to leak crime scene photos.

BUT ... if one MUST entertain that theory ... for argument's sake ...

One must then ask ... if ... you're a highly respected, well-known and successful criminal defense attorney at the peak of one's career arguing the most high profile trial of your career ... and ... you decide it's essential to leak to break some laws and to deliver to a long list of random non-journalist vloggers devastating crime scene photos (against a gag order). AND, for such a sensitive secret and illicit crime scene photo leak mission ... you choose a dude you just fired, who is clearly afflicted with vocal diahrrea if not some type of mania, who is making a mess of their life, regularly show poor judgement, is having an illicit affair, who seeks attention and cannot stop talking ever, who chooses another vet with massive emotional problems as middleman for said secret mission ... and then expect everything to work out swell?

Yeah, this is just one reason that I don't think so.

I have a bunch of other reasons, but I'll leave it there for now and look forward to your thoughts after listening to this odd "interview".

Nice summary. :thumb:
 
One thing that was mentioned is that the CS photos were side by sides. I cannot remember where I read that now but I am wondering if the pics of the girls had other pics next to them, like for instance the Odin runes or other things that were being claimed in the F motion about antlers and stuff.

Does anyone else remember that term side by side to describe the CS photos?
 
Yup. I thought I posted this development. Sorry if I didn't. I'll put the investigator's affidavit here below in quotes.

FWIW, This is why I think the leak investigation stopped w/ Westermann.
LE's not interested in Baldwin/Rossi for this crime; this affidavit and the charges themselves assert that Baldwin was "robbed".

(Apologies for spelling westerman with 2 nn's in previous postings.)
Ok this is where I saw side by side photographs, in paragraph 6 of the Affidavit of Probable Cause. What exactly does that mean?
 
Sadly, this is the way things go in Indiana... wonder how many
decades it will be after they con-vince a jury to convict innocent
man Richard Allen, that he will have to endure in prison before
he is released.
 
I think we should take bets whether Baldwin or Gull will go. I bet it will be B. She has the AG on her side.

that reminds me ... recent AG news:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/poli...l-todd-rokita-disciplinary-charges/index.html

One thing that was mentioned is that the CS photos were side by sides. I cannot remember where I read that now but I am wondering if the pics of the girls had other pics next to them, like for instance the Odin runes or other things that were being claimed in the F motion about antlers and stuff.

Does anyone else remember that term side by side to describe the CS photos?


I think the answer's in the affidavit.
All the photos are all crime scene photos.
In interview, Baldwin recalls which crime scene photos may have been laid out on a conference table the day Westerman committed his conversion crime.

Side by side = a format of 2 crime scene photos on the same page. Affidavit clarifies why those were 2 to a page: Baldwin explains the 2 photos per page are crime scene photos copied 2 on a page by the old D for the purpose of depositions old D conducted (likely w/ LE).

(BTW, these (of LE as witness) are the depositions - under oath - as conducted by the old D - are referenced in and attached to the Franks Memo & Exhibits.)
 
Sadly, this is the way things go in Indiana... wonder how many
decades it will be after they con-vince a jury to convict innocent
man Richard Allen, that he will have to endure in prison before
he is released.
Innocent till proven guilty. We have to have the trial first, so the families and the girls finally get justice. It will be another year, at least, the way it is going.

Found a good local link with a lot of detail and a timeline.



71822613007-delphi-timeline-1.png
Key dates in the case against Richard Allen in the killings of Libby German and Abby Williams.
71822612007-delphi-timeline-2.png

Key dates in the case against Richard Allen in the killings of Libby German and Abby Williams.
 
I think we should take bets whether Baldwin or Gull will go. I bet it will be B. She has the AG on her side.

Oh I forgot to place my "bet". Maybe it's a "wish". We'll see.

Rozzi, Baldwin return - RA has chosen them as his pro bono lawyers; RA has a constitutional right 🇺🇸 to the representation of his choice. :spikeshorse:
(maybe old D returns as PD b/c Gull can't do what she did to them as PD ... but preventing Rozzi & Baldwin as pro-bono can't be argued w/ a straight face.)

and, consequently, we shall say: Bye Bye Birdie :runningaway: due to appearance of conflict
 
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I don't do conspiracy. I don't follow anyone. Baldwin and an illustrious career? Lol. I mean he wouldn't be the first to lose it or have a midlife crisis, get on some substance or have a wannabe a somebody moment. You say that while Gull has a very good history and record. You go one side with that. @Imamazed pointed that out. Do Baldwin or Rozzi deserve theirr reputaions wecked? Does she? Who really threw all the sh*(t? You are very one sided in this.

His ILLUSTRIOUS career? He still chooses this. And they chose their actions Or lack of LOCKS. And poor choice in FRIENDS.

No?

I've said wipe the slate with all if need be. You though can only see it with total bias one way.

And what is really disgusting is politics and holding office is the thing beyond ever before over justice.

And yeah, anyone who is not seeing how far gone it has went is naive.

And Baldwin had some illustrious career? So did GULL. No???

I've seen many a judge and attorney who the page will say that about but anyone local will know better.

Why is it with you that Baldwn, etc. is illustrious when Gull too had had a he77 of a record and is as well?

You aren't unbiased. I'm not either. I'm fine with both thrown out. You aren't though.

Baldwin is corrupt.and crooked imo. Maybe he wasn't always. Maybe he justifies it as righting wrongs and the only way to fight back. Or maybe he just wants more and this case is his ticket where he is a somebody...

You ask why someone would risk an illustrious career??? Well then why would you allow some ex employee free reign and access to your LAW office and all rooms? I mean come on. Duh.

It is soooooooooo obvious.

Illustrious career yeah and thinking this case will skyrocket him. But then but then his client who it was too much trouble to travel and go see confessed like FIVE TIMES.

I love the debate but you only see one side. Gull has had a great career too but I'm fine with all removed if necessary. You only have a hard on for her and want her removed and the old D put back. Very one sided.

All in again good debate but I disagree and boy I wish I had more time as I really want to respond to your earlier post.

In the meantime :catfight:

With all due respect, the above quoted post describes a conspiracy ... right after you deny doing conspiracies.

A conspiracy = secret plan or agreement made by a group of people to carry out an illegal, harmful, or unlawful act, or to achieve a particular goal through deceitful or dishonest means:

Legally, conspiracy refers two or more individuals coming together to plan and commit a criminal act. The crime of conspiracy does not require the actual completion of the intended illegal act but focuses on the agreement or plan to commit the act.

A conspiracy theory = belief or explanation that suggests that events or situations are the result of a secret, often sinister, and deliberately deceptive plot by a group of people or organizations. Conspiracy theories typically propose that the true causes or explanations of events are being hidden from the public, and that there is an intentional effort to deceive or manipulate perceptions.

I stand by my observation: you're speculating a conspiracy theory. I don't mind theories of the case but when they go goofy and pointless, I'm out.

Don't listen to me; follow the "journalists":
Likely Murder Sheet got the full story from their source and friend Mark and from LE. Mark delivered crime scene photos to MS and many others, as to motive of those involved this weird gambit. Kevin acted as his attorney, Anya as his mama. Then they did their research on the leaks, those involved, and they report.

So, MS knows the story and so does LE and we're not hearing anything more about it. MS thinks all relevant parties/witnesses have been interviewed, Westerman's affidavit absolves everyone else, he's been charged with the lesser of several options, it's his first offense, all done investigation, the old D is not involved in the leak, nobody got paid nothin', MS continues to protect RF out of "respect for the family".

RF/Mark/Westerman update thanks to Murder Sheet "leaks" episode:


You may be interested !! MS debunks old D conspiracy theories on the leaks.

The Baldwin/Westerman relationship is a long one, Baldwin/Westerman kept in touch after Westerman left the law practice. Nothing weird about that.
Westerman betrayal by sharing discovery with RF - so weird - he messed up so very very badly trusting RF. And wow the fallout!! I do think Westerman's a very odd duck ... but MS reports that RF was impersonating Westerman to a degree.
See the Murder Sheet reporting (murder sheet on "leaks" episode I linked above) for their RF/Westerman roles in the leaks. It's not a long podcast. (I'm thinking there's more to learn there - such as RF's relationship with Westerman and his online presence and did Westerman know what RF was doing with the shared info?) That detail may not come out unless Westerman goes to trial.

Murder Sheet sees to think RF was stoked being important and respected on Delphi social media; and it's hard to believe but .... perhaps there's your leak motive. RF pretending he consulted for the defense, (when in fact it was Westerman who did that). Forget the money motive, they want the LIKES.

Next topic - Apart from the old D leaks conspiracy theory ... I'm takin' umbrage at wholesale slurring of an entire profession - AHEM:
It is not accurate, reasonable, or remotely fair to make a generalization about the integrity of an entire profession, including lawyers.
The vast majority of lawyers are dedicated professionals who adhere to ethical standards and work to uphold the law.

Painting an entire group with a broad brush based on the actions of a few individuals who make the news is weird. And naive.
Lawyers making the news as corrupt are politicians. They've stopped being lawyers at that point. Noting that lawyers turned politician can be excellent public servants; they just don't make the news ... or they're on the news as commentators...

Professional conduct and ethical standards are essential components of the legal profession; the legal system has many mechanisms in place to address and discipline lawyers who engage in unethical or illegal behavior. Lawyers are bound by codes of conduct, and those who violate ethical standards may face disciplinary action, including suspension or disbarment, which is tantamount to decimating one's own career and earning ability.

That being said, lawyers can make critical errors and oversights and in those cases, the only group qualified to investigate and assess the degree of intent or negligence of said errors are others in the same profession ... lawyers.

Lawyers who zealously represent their clients and do legal somersaults ... are doing their job. Lawyers who lie ... are not.


Baldwin's Broken Document management:
Throughout, I've never cut Baldwin a break for sloppy security practices for his conference room and case files for this matter. No, I don't think Baldwin's office security breakdown = an intentional Baldwin-led conspiracy to deliver some super juicy crime scene photos to a handful of low life vloggers that will magically change the course of the trial.

I too find fault w/ Baldwin's poor administrative security practice - but that's old news - and nothing remotely catastrophic came from the theft - and a common affliction in small law offices with limited admin support (my opinion) - I don't need to repeat it every week.
It's sloppy oversight; not intentional (as Baldwin has explained in filings). Doesn't mean I excuse it.

To be honest, I just don't think it meets the bar for gross negligence. Neither does Gull. Gull had to compile a list, to add to the "leak", to support gross negligence. Meh. Weak sauce, IMO.

I don't fault Baldwin for consulting w/ long-time colleague and friend Westerman. No one's ever brought this up as a problem in papers at SCOIN filings (neither side) because that stuff is totally normal in law circles.

It's true:
Boy do I find Gull to be super annoying, like fingers on a chalkboard for me. I've had to fire a couple of nightmares at work like Gull and I can smell 'em coming. They're toxic and you gotta get rid of them immediately. They make everyone miserable. So not quite PTSD, but the hair goes up. And HELL NO it's not my saint of a mother. I've said my peace as to my radar on Gull being a lazy hot mess maker. Get her off that bench!

Sorry, not sorry. True that most the other players don't ring my toxic bell. Yet. :cowbell:

JMHO.
 
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With all due respect, the above quoted post describes a conspiracy ... right after you deny doing conspiracies.

A conspiracy = secret plan or agreement made by a group of people to carry out an illegal, harmful, or unlawful act, or to achieve a particular goal through deceitful or dishonest means:

Legally, conspiracy refers two or more individuals coming together to plan and commit a criminal act. The crime of conspiracy does not require the actual completion of the intended illegal act but focuses on the agreement or plan to commit the act.

A conspiracy theory = belief or explanation that suggests that events or situations are the result of a secret, often sinister, and deliberately deceptive plot by a group of people or organizations. Conspiracy theories typically propose that the true causes or explanations of events are being hidden from the public, and that there is an intentional effort to deceive or manipulate perceptions.

I stand by my observation: you're speculating a conspiracy theory. I don't mind theories of the case but when they go goofy and pointless, I'm out.

Don't listen to me; follow the "journalists":
Likely Murder Sheet got the full story from their source and friend Mark and from LE. Mark delivered crime scene photos to MS and many others, as to motive of those involved this weird gambit. Kevin acted as his attorney, Anya as his mama. Then they did their research on the leaks, those involved, and they report.

So, MS knows the story and so does LE and we're not hearing anything more about it. MS thinks all relevant parties/witnesses have been interviewed, Westerman's affidavit absolves everyone else, he's been charged with the lesser of several options, it's his first offense, all done investigation, the old D is not involved in the leak, nobody got paid nothin', MS continues to protect RF out of "respect for the family".

RF/Mark/Westerman update thanks to Murder Sheet "leaks" episode:


You may be interested !! MS debunks old D conspiracy theories on the leaks.

The Baldwin/Westerman relationship is a long one, Baldwin/Westerman kept in touch after Westerman left the law practice. Nothing weird about that.
Westerman betrayal by sharing discovery with RF - so weird - he messed up so very very badly trusting RF. And wow the fallout!! I do think Westerman's a very odd duck ... but MS reports that RF was impersonating Westerman to a degree.
See the Murder Sheet reporting (murder sheet on "leaks" episode I linked above) for their RF/Westerman roles in the leaks. It's not a long podcast. (I'm thinking there's more to learn there - such as RF's relationship with Westerman and his online presence and did Westerman know what RF was doing with the shared info?) That detail may not come out unless Westerman goes to trial.

Murder Sheet sees to think RF was stoked being important and respected on Delphi social media; and it's hard to believe but .... perhaps there's your leak motive. RF pretending he consulted for the defense, (when in fact it was Westerman who did that). Forget the money motive, they want the LIKES.

Next topic - Apart from the old D leaks conspiracy theory ... I'm takin' umbrage at wholesale slurring of an entire profession - AHEM:
It is not accurate, reasonable, or remotely fair to make a generalization about the integrity of an entire profession, including lawyers.
The vast majority of lawyers are dedicated professionals who adhere to ethical standards and work to uphold the law.

Painting an entire group with a broad brush based on the actions of a few individuals who make the news is weird. And naive.
Lawyers making the news as corrupt are politicians. They've stopped being lawyers at that point. Noting that lawyers turned politician can be excellent public servants; they just don't make the news ... or they're on the news as commentators...

Professional conduct and ethical standards are essential components of the legal profession; the legal system has many mechanisms in place to address and discipline lawyers who engage in unethical or illegal behavior. Lawyers are bound by codes of conduct, and those who violate ethical standards may face disciplinary action, including suspension or disbarment, which is tantamount to decimating one's own career and earning ability.

That being said, lawyers can make critical errors and oversights and in those cases, the only group qualified to investigate and assess the degree of intent or negligence of said errors are others in the same profession ... lawyers.

Lawyers who zealously represent their clients and do legal somersaults ... are doing their job. Lawyers who lie ... are not.


Baldwin's Broken Document management:
Throughout, I've never cut Baldwin a break for sloppy security practices for his conference room and case files for this matter. No, I don't think Baldwin's office security breakdown = an intentional Baldwin-led conspiracy to deliver some super juicy crime scene photos to a handful of low life vloggers that will magically change the course of the trial.

I too find fault w/ Baldwin's poor administrative security practice - but that's old news - and nothing remotely catastrophic came from the theft - and a common affliction in small law offices with limited admin support (my opinion) - I don't need to repeat it every week.
It's sloppy oversight; not intentional (as Baldwin has explained in filings). Doesn't mean I excuse it.

To be honest, I just don't think it meets the bar for gross negligence. Neither does Gull. Gull had to compile a list, to add to the "leak", to support gross negligence. Meh. Weak sauce, IMO.

I don't fault Baldwin for consulting w/ long-time colleague and friend Westerman. No one's ever brought this up as a problem in papers at SCOIN filings (neither side) because that stuff is totally normal in law circles.

It's true:
Boy do I find Gull to be super annoying, like fingers on a chalkboard for me. I've had to fire a couple of nightmares at work like Gull and I can smell 'em coming. They're toxic and you gotta get rid of them immediately. They make everyone miserable. So not quite PTSD, but the hair goes up. And HELL NO it's not my saint of a mother. I've said my peace as to my radar on Gull being a lazy hot mess maker. Get her off that bench!

Sorry, not sorry. True that most the other players don't ring my toxic bell. Yet. :cowbell:

JMHO.

I thought you said RF was a victim and victims should not be attacked. Yet you seem to be attacking in this post?

You also say you don't like conspiracy theories but seem to suggest one between RF and MW. Convenient when one of the conspiracists can no longer be asked.

MW has hired a lawyer so he will be going to court or negotiating a plea deal IMO.

I cannot believe you said this -

"and nothing remotely catastrophic came from the theft"
 
Westerman was having an affair; he was outed for having the affair in papers filed w/ Gull's court during Baldwin's lawyer's filed papers and/or Rozzi's filed papers which described (for Gull's court) the course of events of this theft, and the affidavit from Westerman. The question was - why and how often does Westerman travel to the area of Baldwin's office for visits. The answer included the explanation that Westerman's girlfriend lives nearby and he's in the area frequently - to see his girlfriend. (News to his wife, perhaps - who filed divorce papers within the month of that reveal. Or perhaps their divorce was already in the works.)

These papers (and facts) are available for review in both Gull's and the Supreme Court's 2nd Writ docket ... for those interested in the facts related to the leak that the old D was removed over.

(I have to think that his affair was out in the open by the time they blew Westerman in? Otherwise ... a double OUCH for his wife. Regardless, his arrest was a divorce filing trigger, FOR SURE. You'll likely fair better when you sue for divorce from a criminal-type spouse. )
Trying to find where I left off, haven't been in this one in a few days. So tired. Yesterday I woke up at 7:30 and had to be at work by 8:00! I made it and that alone should tell how tired and rushed lately.

I doubt I will get time and just realized this is Christmas Eve so a Merry Christmas to all and their loved ones. I work today. Daughter coming over later after and here through part of tomorrow. We already did the extended big family Christmas ahead of time which went very well and was nice. Last year it was canceled due to weather and we tried to make up for it in Feb but it wasn't the same. This year we had to be ready earlier but it was more like Christmas and worked out well.

Anyhow today not a lot of time either. I imagine we will be very busy today, we were yesterday. Not the busiest I've ever seen but busy enough. I didn't wake up with hours this morning either but at least I have more than a flat half hour to wake up get dressed and get through the door at work on time.

I like to be up three to four hours ahead no matter what the shift but not happening the last week or so. Just so tired.

Anyhow, that's all interesting. |Good move on wife's part and what a loser. Didn't pass the bar, cheats on his wife, steals from a friend, etc., etc., gets friend in trouble, somehow who leaker leaked to felt the need to suicide and yada yada yada. If I were his wife, I'd uhm be going this is just a bit TOO MUCH to ignore.

I wouldn't be so sure any investigation isn't ongoing. If it isn't that's wrong and should be.

I'd like to know more about the gf... Lives near Baldwin's office... The way this bunch goes and how crazy it all is, we will probably find she works there or something... Only half kidding.
 
Ironic:
Westerman's wife filed for divorce after his arrest ... but RA's did not. :unsure:
Well let me add to that. Crybaby's wife did immediately (LISK). But seems to still be adoringly in love with him, cares about him, attends court, sues, is protecting their assets, is being paid for being married to an SK etc. All jmho of course.

You talk passive agressive so very much. I suspect it in RA actually. I don't like labels and buzz words but I think he was hen pecked man BUT they have their own way of control and some nastiness inside, at least his type does. So let's talk his label and your diagnosis okay? LOL. And I'm not insulting wife or mom here because the type I see him as turns those around him into such IF they weren't already.

RA's wife would be SMART to divorce. Because it sadly gets around laws, slow moving courts and saves assets when they move them as LISK Asa is doing/did. It's disgusting but they are using the loopholes and lack of laws.

I haven't even had time to look back at what i said but oh well.

I got up with a bit more time but have let it all elapse and now have to start getting ready.

Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas Olenna and to all here. it's a lively thread and debate will continue I'm sure lol.

I haven't been in in a few days as again wiped and the bit I've been on I have spent time on cases I haven't looked at in a long time that don't get as much attention. It was overdue.

Wish I could get time for the basement but I put cases first.

We are apt to slow down big time after Christmas. Hoping for a breather and more time here even though don't need docked hours either.

Judging by where I picked up here, I am pages behind.

Have a great day!! And a Merry Christmas.
 
I thought you said RF was a victim and victims should not be attacked. Yet you seem to be attacking in this post?

You also say you don't like conspiracy theories but seem to suggest one between RF and MW. Convenient when one of the conspiracists can no longer be asked.

MW has hired a lawyer so he will be going to court or negotiating a plea deal IMO.

I cannot believe you said this -

"and nothing remotely catastrophic came from the theft"

To clarify:

I'm sharing (quickly) a Murder Sheet episode on the "leaks" where Murder Sheet and "reported" (basically MS's words and explanations - not mine).
The comments are MS's. They don't criticize RF, instead they share their research of RF's activity online and in texts w/ Mark, their source.

If you have time to listen ... you'll see.
You can judge for yourself.

MS reviews RF's reddit posts. They review the Mark-RF screen shots. They incorporate the recent Westerman-related affidavits.
MS obviously interviewed Mark. Much earlier, they interviewed Westerman.

MS concludes that RF/Mark's back and forth texts show their motive is to promote "transparency" and "correct bad info" about the Delphi investigation on reddit, vlogs, etc.

"not catastrophic" - also from MS. As such: a feared catastrophic consequence of the leaks never materialized.

MS previously interviewed Westerman and holds the view of Westerman as a soundboard for Baldwin - as legal colleagues and as friends.

(My thought (rather than MS): Westerman's reason for sharing with RF is unknown and unexplored by MS. Due to LE investigation -we'd expect LE has digital records of Westerman comms with RF - and LE has determined "motive". Also my thought: The charges suggest LE concluded no criminal conspiracy.)

Have a peaceful holiday Tresir!
 
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Well let me add to that. Crybaby's wife did immediately (LISK). But seems to still be adoringly in love with him, cares about him, attends court, sues, is protecting their assets, is being paid for being married to an SK etc. All jmho of course.

You talk passive agressive so very much. I suspect it in RA actually. I don't like labels and buzz words but I think he was hen pecked man BUT they have their own way of control and some nastiness inside, at least his type does. So let's talk his label and your diagnosis okay? LOL. And I'm not insulting wife or mom here because the type I see him as turns those around him into such IF they weren't already.

RA's wife would be SMART to divorce. Because it sadly gets around laws, slow moving courts and saves assets when they move them as LISK Asa is doing/did. It's disgusting but they are using the loopholes and lack of laws.

I haven't even had time to look back at what i said but oh well.

I got up with a bit more time but have let it all elapse and now have to start getting ready.

Wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas Olenna and to all here. it's a lively thread and debate will continue I'm sure lol.

I haven't been in in a few days as again wiped and the bit I've been on I have spent time on cases I haven't looked at in a long time that don't get as much attention. It was overdue.

Wish I could get time for the basement but I put cases first.

We are apt to slow down big time after Christmas. Hoping for a breather and more time here even though don't need docked hours either.

Judging by where I picked up here, I am pages behind.

Have a great day!! And a Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you too, Gma Bear.
 
This is such a hot mess of a case. Sometimes you gotta shake all the frustration out!

Appreciate y'all sharing new bits of info, your views, some noodling.
I've popped in here more this past week as things grew holiday-slow to do the same.
We don't always share the same perspective - but we do share! That's a good thing.

BTW: I have to be traveling in the new year; no worries if I'm not around after holidays ...

This case should go quiet ... until SCOIN decides. Then we shall see.

If SCOIN decides against RA's 2nd writ, RA could still bring further appeals pre-trial.
Judge Gull opened more than one appeal door; they haven't even been to the appellate yet ...
 
In the last couple of days I took another look at the Frank's Motion and I cannot see how they think that will fly.

They have named 3 guys who committed the murders, in their view, based on the fact they are Vinlanders and fannied about with runes and sticks in their spare time. They ignored alibis those people might have and do not explain where they parked and arrived or left, or why witnesses didn't see them.

I am hoping the prosecution debunks it at some point.

Merry Christmas all.
 

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