LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Just as an insight, MW's friend committed suicide on 11th October.

Also, not sure if this was posted before. Apologies if so but this is regarding the private hearing of which Gull later released a transcript.

 
I totally get how the jailhouse confession would derail folks interest in points of RA's defense. Jailhouse confessions on tape ... unless those confessions contain new facts and/or detail that only the murderer would know ... are not terribly useful.

And I hope this case's NEW Judge is not a lazy passive aggressive lip-curling eye-rolling wimp. 🙄
The old one is still hanging on ATM for sure.
 
Mar - MS interviews MW
April 5th? - RA confesses (5 times in all)
Aug 1st - Oct 5th photos theft (between)
Sept 18th - Frank's memo
Oct 5th - MS notifies LE , prosecution and defence re CS photo leaks
Oct 9th - MW goes to solicitor to confess.
Oct 11th - RF commits suicide
Oct 18th - MW signs affidavit.
Oct 19th - Solicitors stand down.
Jan 18th - SC livestream

Will update as necessary, just mentally getting my head round it all.

So it seems to me that the defense came up with the Frank's memo primarily to challenge the search warrant. I believe the photos were laid out on the table 1 Aug thru 5 Oct) while the F memo was being drafted (finalized Sept 18th) and therefore the thief was able to access them any time between the dates 1 Aug to 5 Oct as MW has stated. He doesn't give the exact date he did this.
 
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April 5th? - RA confesses (5 times in all)
Aug 1st - Oct 5th photos theft between
Sept Frank's memo
Oct 5th - MW goes to solicitor to confess.
" " LE and prosecution notified
Oct 11th - RF commits suicide
Oct 18th - MW signs affidavit.
Oct 19th - Solicitors stand down.
Jan 18th - SC livestream

Will update as necessary, just mentally getting my head round it all.

I'm not sure what this timeline purpose is. Just in case it's useful for you - here's another date for Westerman:
March 2023 - Westerman interviewed with Murder Sheet.
 
I'm not sure what this timeline purpose is. Just in case it's useful for you - here's another date for Westerman:
March 2023 - Westerman interviewed with Murder Sheet.
It's an aide memoire for me plus the dates also reveal a few surprises. Eg MW does not submit his affidavit until after RF's suicide but one day before the defense stand down.
 
It's an aide memoire for me plus the dates also reveal a few surprises. Eg MW does not submit his affidavit until after RF's suicide but one day before the defense stand down.
Yup.
I also find it handy to throw stuff up on the thread (just for me) so I can find that stuff later too.

just adding the following info re: MW's affidavit timing - this info is is found in the Exhibits submitted with the 2nd Writ at the Indiana SC:
Baldwin learned (from Mcl) about leak a full day after McL learned (from LE - who got the original confession from Murder Sheet's source Mark)? MW spoke w/ Baldwin and owned up; Baldwin told MW to get a lawyer; MW had some kind of difficulty w/ his first lawyer - who dropped him. MW then had to get another lawyer. That 2nd MW lawyer oversaw the affidavit process.
 
Yup.
I also find it handy to throw stuff up on the thread (just for me) so I can find that stuff later too.

just adding the following info re: MW's affidavit timing - this info is is found in the Exhibits submitted with the 2nd Writ at the Indiana SC:
Baldwin learned (from Mcl) about leak a full day after McL learned (from LE - who got the original confession from Murder Sheet's source Mark)? MW spoke w/ Baldwin and owned up; Baldwin told MW to get a lawyer; MW had some kind of difficulty w/ his first lawyer - who dropped him. MW then had to get another lawyer. That 2nd MW lawyer oversaw the affidavit process.
I thought Baldwin knew direct from the leak source ( MW ) before Mcleland did, no? Baldwin probably notified LE, I would imagine and that's how McL found out. Not sure about this as I don't have a link. I would think if Baldwin heard this from McL, he would be hopping mad at MW.

This excerpt from an article about MS appears to confirm the defence knew first.

Indiana girls when they were sent gruesome crime scene photos leaked from the defense attorney’s office. The man charged in the case is now without attorneys.
Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee, hosts of the true-crime podcast “The Murder Sheet,” were sent the photos and other confidential evidence on Oct. 5 by an unnamed source.
The hosts told HuffPost they had heard about a possible accidental leak from the defense earlier but did not report on it until the evidence was directly sent to them.
“When our source reached out to us and provided us with seven leaked discovery images, which included graphic crime scene photographs, as well as unreleased suspect sketches, it kind of became immediately clear to us that these were real and this was very serious. This was like 2 or 3 in the morning, and we ended up staying up even later because we were so rattled,” Cain, a former journalist for Insider, told HuffPost.
She added: “The next morning, we contacted law enforcement and let them know that there had been a serious breach and what we had received. We also reached out to the defense later that day, saying, ‘Hey, there’s been a serious breach.’ At that point, it was also getting out on social media — it turned out that multiple people ultimately received these images. Our source was not the original leaker — he was a man who received it down the line.”
Cain said the original leaker ended up being a former member of Andrew Baldwin’s criminal defense team, one of the accused suspect's attorneys. The leaker passed on the evidence to another person, who died by suicide once an investigation into the leak began. That person passed it on to Cain and Greenlee’s source."

 
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I thought Baldwin knew direct from the leak source ( MW ) before Mcleland did, no? Baldwin probably notified LE, I would imagine and that's how McL found out. Not sure about this as I don't have a link. I would think if Baldwin heard this from McL, he would be hopping mad at MW.

Baldwin expressed his anger and disgust at MW's betrayal and behavior several times on various records made w/ Gull's court.

Retrospectively, the leak was a slow leak, sort of a roll-out. The crime scene photos w/ victims bodies was the LAST set of the leak. Prior to that the tree photo w/ runes was leaked. Also some Franks Motion theory was believed to have been leaked. Ostensibly, all those leaks came from stuff stolen by Westerman ... and we'll likely not have all clarity without having the MWesterman/leaks investigative info ... (So maybe never?)

Initially, LE investigators knew of the leak prior to knowing the source of the leak. Likewise, Baldwin (along with McL and the Court) knew of the leak but at first had no idea the leak was from his office, let alone his trusted colleague MW.

When Murder Sheet AND their source "Mark" notified LE investigator, LE began to learn more. LE investigator immediately notified McL.

Of the members of the Court, McLeland had the leak SOURCE info first (from LE) - and then McL withheld this information from the Court and the Defense for more than 30+hours (per the exhibits at the Supreme Court). McL papers indicated both McL and LE were overnight working/developing the facts on the leak) - had little sleep - while McL was delaying notice to Court and Defense.

(Murder Sheet was slower to notify Baldwin - as an afterthought. MS reached out to Baldwin (I believe within 48 hours of MS having notified LE).

IIRC, (it's filed in the SC court papers) Baldwin realized the LEAK originated from HIS own office and his own colleague when McL told him so.

I recall that prior to confirming MW as leak source ... LE investigators told Murder Sheet (voluntary witnesses) that LE had been concerned that LE was the source of the leak.

IIRC, Westerman visited Baldwin and detailed his "theft/conversion" after Baldwin had learned of the leak from McL.
At that visit, Baldwin told MW to cooperate w/ LE investigation and get a lawyer.

All of the above information can be found in the SC 2nd Writ Exhibits.
 
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Here is another more detailed article about the leak and confirms that there were 7 photos leaked, one being the supposed picture of the F rune on the tree. I am wondering if one per week was taken which would explain the dates 1 Aug to Oct 5th for the offence. I do also wonder if they were leaked intentionally to back up the Franks memo which was also released when it should not have been, due to the graphic descriptions of the crime scene.

I think the defence are fully responsible and behind it IMO.

 
Baldwin expressed his anger and disgust at MW's betrayal and behavior several times on various records made w/ Gull's court.

Retrospectively, the leak was a slow leak, sort of a roll-out. The crime scene photos w/ victims bodies was the LAST set of the leak. Prior to that the tree photo w/ runes was leaked. Also some Franks Motion theory was believed to have been leaked. Ostensibly, all those leaks came from stuff stolen by Westerman ... and we'll likely not have all clarity without having the MWesterman/leaks investigative info ... (So maybe never?)

Initially, LE investigators knew of the leak prior to knowing the source of the leak. Likewise, Baldwin (along with McL and the Court) knew of the leak but at first had no idea the leak was from his office, let alone his trusted colleague MW.

When Murder Sheet AND their source "Mark" notified LE investigator, LE began to learn more. LE investigator immediately notified McL.

Of the members of the Court, McLeland had the leak SOURCE info first (from LE) - and then McL withheld this information from the Court and the Defense for more than 30+hours (per the exhibits at the Supreme Court). McL papers indicated both McL and LE were overnight working/developing the facts on the leak) - had little sleep - while McL was delaying notice to Court and Defense.

(Murder Sheet was slower to notify Baldwin - as an afterthought. MS reached out to Baldwin (I believe within 48 hours of MS having notified LE).

IIRC, (it's filed in the SC court papers) Baldwin realized the LEAK originated from HIS own office and his own colleague when McL told him so.

I recall that prior to confirming MW as leak source ... LE investigators told Murder Sheet (voluntary witnesses) that LE had been concerned that LE was the source of the leak.

IIRC, Westerman visited Baldwin and detailed his "theft/conversion" after Baldwin had learned of the leak from McL.
At that visit, Baldwin told MW to cooperate w/ LE investigation and get a lawyer.

All of the above information can be found in the SC 2nd Writ Exhibits.
Yes and most of that happened on Oct 5th, I believe. The article I just posted relates it all. However, the MS confirm and emphasize that they contacted LE, the defence and the state.

It was virtually impossible for me to copy it though, due to all the other irrelevant stuff that comes up so best if you click and read the article separately. Here is what I was able to copy anyway.
  • Published: 19:33 ET, Oct 16 2023
  • Updated: 9:14 ET, Oct

PODCASTERS who alerted authorities to a massive leak of crime scene photos from the Delphi murders have called the scandal a "terrible disaster" that will likely cause the victims' families yet more pain and anguish.

Aine Cane and Kevin Greenlee, hosts of The Murder Sheet, received an email on October 5 from a source - identified only as "Mark" - who sent them seven graphic images depicting the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.
"When the sun came up, we reached out to law enforcement to let them know that there had been a catastrophic breach in the case of discovery materials.

"We also contacted the defense and the state because we wanted both sides to have that information, and at that time we didn't know where the breach had come from.

"The person who sent us the photos was not the original leaker [...] eventually we were able to determine the leak came from somebody who is connected to the defense."

Cain and Greenlee declined to share what Allen's attorneys said in their response to the shocking discovery, though Baldwin and Rozzi reportedly acknowledged the leak directly.

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Here is another more detailed article about the leak and confirms that there were 7 photos leaked, one being the supposed picture of the F rune on the tree. I am wondering if one per week was taken which would explain the dates 1 Aug to Oct 5th for the offence. I do also wonder if they were leaked intentionally to back up the Franks memo which was also released when it should not have been, due to the graphic descriptions of the crime scene.

I think the defence are fully responsible and behind it IMO.


For me, the fact that Law Enforcement has investigated and have not found the D to be "responsible" or to be "behind it".

Gull has unilaterally (and without benefit of a hearing) found the D "grossly negligent/incompetent" while naming several events combined as the bar for "grossly" (ending with having the crime scene material stolen from their office). Even Gull and McL have never suggested that the D was in any way "behind" a leak scheme.

Gull is currently under SC scrutiny for her "grossly negligent" findings and subsequent dismissal.

Barb McDonald provided the Tree photo and indicated it came from her contacts (which in the past were largely LE); thus Barb had LE telling Murder Sheet they were concerned that LE had a crime photo leaker in their ranks.

IMO, Westerman may (likely) plead out - thus it's unlikely further info will come from the "LE investigation". IMO, any significant info that leaks investigation found against Baldwin/Rozzi would have been presented by Gull to SC as fact evidence supporting her "decision".

In my view, there are no facts supporting the position that Baldwin/Rozzi orchestrated the leaks, and there is absolutely no benefit to the old D or their client to have those crime scene photos hit the public. (Which also never happened as most podcasters refused to participate.)

The crime is on Westerman.

Baldwin's failure to realize Westerman was capable of such a crime ... I agree ... is on Baldwin. Baldwin's failure to lock his work room and leave materials out where Westerman could walk in and peruse them - I agree ... also on Baldwin.

But this is where the facts end, as does the leak blaming on Baldwin's shoulders.

No blame on Rozzi whatsoever.

I'd like know how Rozzi reacted privately to Baldwin.

I noticed that in the immediate fact-finding moments, Rozzi performed detailed reporting to the Court of the Baldwin/Westerman theft detail, the Westerman disclosure, and Baldwin's follow-up. Later on Baldwin had Hennessy rep him. Which suggests that Rozzi/Baldwin agreed Rozzi should rep himself, and Baldwin should have counsel rep him on the matter in Court (and likely, to LE).

JMHO
 
I still believe it was a set up job. 7 photos over 7 weeks is just too convenient and at the same time as the Frank's memo came out too. The separation of responsibility between Defense, Conference room security and MW coming and going at will is just not believable IMO. At the minimum it was Gross Negligence and at the worst it was deliberate.

Must not forget also that the Frank's memo was similarly released to the public as well, with no redactions and shocking graphic detail. There is no such thing as a coincidence when there are more than two glaring inconsistencies such as this.
 
For me, the fact that Law Enforcement has investigated and have not found the D to be "responsible" or to be "behind it".

Gull has unilaterally (and without benefit of a hearing) found the D "grossly negligent/incompetent" while naming several events combined as the bar for "grossly" (ending with having the crime scene material stolen from their office). Even Gull and McL have never suggested that the D was in any way "behind" a leak scheme.

Gull is currently under SC scrutiny for her "grossly negligent" findings and subsequent dismissal.

Barb McDonald provided the Tree photo and indicated it came from her contacts (which in the past were largely LE); thus Barb had LE telling Murder Sheet they were concerned that LE had a crime photo leaker in their ranks.

IMO, Westerman may (likely) plead out - thus it's unlikely further info will come from the "LE investigation". IMO, any significant info that leaks investigation found against Baldwin/Rozzi would have been presented by Gull to SC as fact evidence supporting her "decision".

In my view, there are no facts supporting the position that Baldwin/Rozzi orchestrated the leaks, and there is absolutely no benefit to the old D or their client to have those crime scene photos hit the public. (Which also never happened as most podcasters refused to participate.)

The crime is on Westerman.

Baldwin's failure to realize Westerman was capable of such a crime ... I agree ... is on Baldwin. Baldwin's failure to lock his work room and leave materials out where Westerman could walk in and peruse them - I agree ... also on Baldwin.

But this is where the facts end, as does the leak blaming on Baldwin's shoulders.

No blame on Rozzi whatsoever.

I'd like know how Rozzi reacted privately to Baldwin.

I noticed that in the immediate fact-finding moments, Rozzi performed detailed reporting to the Court of the Baldwin/Westerman theft detail, the Westerman disclosure, and Baldwin's follow-up. Later on Baldwin had Hennessy rep him. Which suggests that Rozzi/Baldwin agreed Rozzi should rep himself, and Baldwin should have counsel rep him on the matter in Court (and likely, to LE).

JMHO
What are Gull's grossly negligent findings under SC scrutiny ? I don't think I have seen anything about that. Also, I am not aware LE investigated and cleared the defence. Again, I may have missed it though.
 
What are Gull's grossly negligent findings under SC scrutiny ? I don't think I have seen anything about that.

Among other things, the 2nd Writ seeks the re-instatement of the old D (Allen requests his preferred counsel be reinstated).

To consider old D reinstatement, the SC would review Gull's assessment of "gross negligence" by the old D, including her facts/process/deliberation/decision that led to her removing the old D.

(The summary section of Allen's 2nd Writ lists the decisions Allen's requested from the SC.)
 

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