LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Tresir]

That he said that.

So KK said he told LE exactly what happened regarding A and L's murder. Is that what you mean? But you don't actually know what he said to LE?

Or he told them exactly how the meet up arrangement came about with Shots?

Or he told them who actually arranged to meet them under the guise of Shots?

Just saying that he told LE what happened doesn't really explain anything if you haven't got the underlying detail.

 

[Tresir]

I know that KK failed a polygraph when he was asked if he knew who killed the girls.

Also, RA must have spoken to DD before the 22 Feb '17 PC when the pic of BG came out.

 

[Olenna]

FYI:

More than one LE investigator confirmed during old D discover and under sworn deposition, (depo info is covered in the Frank's Memo) that LE has zero discovery or evidence related to cellphone/electronics/computer history on RA, including RA following the case online or CSA stuff ... and they found no links between RA and KK.

IMO: KK is old theory and if not a dead theory, it's not connected to the dude sitting in prison awaiting trial.

 

[Tresir]

FYI:

More than one LE investigator confirmed during old D discover and under sworn deposition, (depo info is covered in the Frank's Memo) that LE has zero discovery or evidence related to cellphone/electronics/computer history on RA, including RA following the case online or CSA stuff ... and they found no links between RA and KK.

IMO: KK is old theory and if not a dead theory, it's not connected to the dude sitting in prison awaiting trial.

What about Anthony_Shots though AKA Kline? Its known for sure that Shots/Kline contacted the girls the day of the murders, right? Too much of a coincidence for there not to be a link IMO.

How did RA know the girls would be there unless it was via that fake Shots profile?

 

[Olenna]

What about Anthony_Shots though AKA Kline? Its known for sure that Shots/Kline contacted the girls the day of the murders, right? Too much of a coincidence for there not to be a link IMO.

How did RA know the girls would be there unless it was via that fake Shots profile?

The possible RA-KK comms theory fell apart. They've got nothing, per LE investigators from the most recent deposition reporting in the old D's Frank's memo.

IMO, This suggests the theory relies upon RA just getting "lucky" as to victim selection.

 

[GrandmaBear]

KK has said that he's told the police exactly what happened, but they don't believe him. I wonder what his story is. He may be called by the defense.

To Abby and Libby you mean? How could he tell them if he was not involved or knew Allen and knew how Allen knew they'd be there, etc.?

 

[GrandmaBear]

What it is would tell us a lot,. retract the names of people. How seriously have the cops looked into it, or did they just dismiss it?

Kline does not like incriminating himself so whatever he told them made him innocent imo. I can only think of something like claiming he saw RA chatting with the girls online or some such arranging a meeting (a like in other words). If he said he had access to the drop box or that he knew him or told him, that would be incriminating himself somewhat so I'd doubt he said anything like that...But then to get out of himself being looked at for murder maybe he would claim to know Allen and that he did it, was behind the Shots thing or dropbox, etc. and/or involved with Kline's dropbox and Shots thing.. The thing is cops didn't believe him you said so I'm going to guess it wasn't anything like that and was something outlandish they knew to be a lie. If that's the case, us knowing the story wouldn't tell us anything either.

I watched all the Kline stuff, I can't remember was it a recording of his interview we listened to or was it a transcript we read? Are you sure his supposed answer to this question isn't in there? I don't remember him admitting to much of anything. When faced with how young of girls he had contact with he really tried to deny it and then started making it sound as if they were 15 at least as older minor teens are better than an eleven year old. He never cam totally clean with any question and he is a liar.

He is sentenced is he not so this info should be available and if it is not, then it means it ties to this case somehow imo. FOIA it.

 

[GrandmaBear]

FYI:

More than one LE investigator confirmed during old D discover and under sworn deposition, (depo info is covered in the Frank's Memo) that LE has zero discovery or evidence related to cellphone/electronics/computer history on RA, including RA following the case online or CSA stuff ... and they found no links between RA and KK.

IMO: KK is old theory and if not a dead theory, it's not connected to the dude sitting in prison awaiting trial.

I never read the entire thing and did not know that, I did know they mentioned lack of DNA. I don't take anything Old D writes or says as truth though. It also does not mean things aren't still being looked at, extracted, tested.

Can you tell me why Kline would even be mentioned in a memo about Os?

I still find it funny Old D would make such an overblown effort to get a warrant thrown out that netted LE nothing and of course they diss the bullet evidence as nothingness. So why then? Just another reason I don't buy it and one has to read between the lines in what they do NOT say as well.

I guess I'd have to see the evidence or discovery they cite these things as facts from and at least see how they worded these statements in their memo and I don't have time to do that so I'm not convinced of it.

I don't think it's an old theory until I see it or hear it and from who and to answer what question but again, I don't have time for it so I'll wait until I catch it in a video I guess Funny none I watched covered that but then since other news was always erupting like the leak most podcasters probably never got that far.

I sure don't think Os then are the new theory either.

Like I said in another post, if KK isn't involved and it's proven then I don't care one way or another. I simply want the entire truth to come out and anyone involved charged and convicted.

Then there's when was what was cited and when were depositions and did they include State officers and FBI...

Anyhow, I'm not going to go too far into it or down that road because I admittedly haven't read the whole ridiculous memo and since I'm not going to be able to anytime soon, then I can't really argue the point knowingly.

Allen had more than five years to get rid of sh*t. Kline we know tried to wipe sh*t and did wipe some. And then there's also always possibilities like burner phones, storage units and more with RA. I'm not talking Kline now, just generally re RA. it takes a long time like in LISK to retrieve some cell etc. stuff and sometimes they can't get it all like the actual texts and of course can't hear conversations that occurred and so forth but they can do a lot and go to the phone of the recipient too or vice versa and so on.

There's something they want gone that that search warrant netted imo. One always has to watch with any attorney as to what they don't say or mention and that's always a big part of the game. Timing too. Timing is everything.

Anyhow, I'm starting to wander and make it a general post so I'll stop. First got home and was catching up on a few.

Anyhow Kline can tie in or not to Allen, I don't care so long as it's fact. He already does tie into Libby and a planned meeting at the very same place. And that's just a little too weird too... Uncanny in fact.

 

[GrandmaBear]

What about Anthony_Shots though AKA Kline? Its known for sure that Shots/Kline contacted the girls the day of the murders, right? Too much of a coincidence for there not to be a link IMO.

How did RA know the girls would be there unless it was via that fake Shots profile?

I just said similar. Uncanny he had a meeting planned at the very same place with Libby...

 

[GrandmaBear]

The possible RA-KK comms theory fell apart. They've got nothing, per LE investigators from the most recent deposition reporting in the old D's Frank's memo.

IMO, This suggests the theory relies upon RA just getting "lucky" as to victim selection.

I'm curious if they deposed all involved? And also the wording of the questions, answers and the words Old D used in the memo as well but more so the EVIDENCE like transcripts of depos and dates.

This is a pretty blanket statement the way you word it. I did read the intro back when to the memo, the shortened part or most of it as i recall. And I remember thinking their DNA remarks were carefully worded and a dance.

Again, I don't "care" if KK was involved or not if it's fact. I also don't care if I'm wrong. Never do. I care about justice for victims.

I do consider the possibility the girls were not being the safest on the internet and were being catfished by more than one person and those persons may or may not have known each other or may have only known the other person's screen name for instance or fake account name (meaning two men both doing similar). Heck if you are a pedo and you're online if you're smart you aren't going to use your real name online even with another pedo or of course any child.

And then I consider could Libby have made it a thing about meeting at the bridge with more than one catfisher she thought to be someone else like a teen her age. Just looking to meet someone, a hot guy, find a hot boyfriend, etc...

It's hard to say but I don't think RA just got "lucky" and never will. It would take stunning accurate evidence to ever convince me of that. He went prepared, he had the time, the day off or enough time off work or whatever, and he knew.

I don't believe in that kind of coincidence with all of these other coincidences around it like KK planning a similar meeting with Libby. RA knew. I think it was a plan and the girls expected someone else. It could be that way even without KK. I also can think o a couple of reasons Libby reset her phone just before and that too is too uncanny imo. One is that the "guy" got her to do so... Another I've mentioned over the course of this case.

Yup too many coincidences.

This wasn't "lucky".

 

[Cousin Dupree]

So KK said he told LE exactly what happened regarding A and L's murder. Is that what you mean? But you don't actually know what he said to LE?

Or he told them exactly how the meet up arrangement came about with Shots?

Or he told them who actually arranged to meet them under the guise of Shots?

Just saying that he told LE what happened doesn't really explain anything if you haven't got the underlying detail.

Only, that he claims to have told LE what happened, but they don't believe him. I'd think somebody in the media would have at least tried to interview him.

I know that KK failed a polygraph when he was asked if he knew who killed the girls.

Also, RA must have spoken to DD before the 22 Feb '17 PC when the pic of BG came out.

If he failed on that topic then he knows more than was saying at that time. Did his story about what happened come before or after that polygraph.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

FYI:

More than one LE investigator confirmed during old D discover and under sworn deposition, (depo info is covered in the Frank's Memo) that LE has zero discovery or evidence related to cellphone/electronics/computer history on RA, including RA following the case online or CSA stuff ... and they found no links between RA and KK.

IMO: KK is old theory and if not a dead theory, it's not connected to the dude sitting in prison awaiting trial.

IF, his confessions were coerced, and you remove them from the equation, you've got nothing, but his saying he was there and witness' that he was.

What about Anthony_Shots though AKA Kline? Its known for sure that Shots/Kline contacted the girls the day of the murders, right? Too much of a coincidence for there not to be a link IMO.

How did RA know the girls would be there unless it was via that fake Shots profile?

I thought it was KK setting up a meeting with the girls, the night before as Shots.

The possible RA-KK comms theory fell apart. They've got nothing, per LE investigators from the most recent deposition reporting in the old D's Frank's memo.

IMO, This suggests the theory relies upon RA just getting "lucky" as to victim selection.

If there is no RA-KK communications, then how would RA know about the meeting?

The problem here is that the PD appears to have screwed this thing up over and over. The prosecution isn't doing much to help them, and the defense is doing a good job of muddying the waters.

So I'd like to know:

Does Odinism have anything to do with this? It would be nice for a show like 48 Hours, Dateline, 60 minutes or one of the cable shows do a deep dive into what Odinism is, and why the defense is claiming a connection.

The opinions of a professional voice analyst for KA's voice.

@Olenna 's post makes a lot of sense. In LISK one of the first things LE said is that they have DNA evidence. They also said how they got it. I also don't recall a prosecution holding back on saying they have DNA evidence. Unfortunately, for RA it appears there is very little to convict him other than his confessions and saying he was there.

If you think the evidence going in was thin, then the forced confessions make more sense. They needed a slam dunk for the jury. I really think that they are barking up a single tree. Unfortunately, for RA, he's already been convicted of doing the whole thing himself in the court of public opinion.

I'd like to see a deep dive into this case using only verified facts. That seems impossible now. Including during the trial.

 

[GrandmaBear]

IF, his confessions were coerced, and you remove them from the equation, you've got nothing, but his saying he was there and witness' that he was.



I thought it was KK setting up a meeting with the girls, the night before as Shots.



If there is no RA-KK communications, then how would RA know about the meeting?

The problem here is that the PD appears to have screwed this thing up over and over. The prosecution isn't doing much to help them, and the defense is doing a good job of muddying the waters.

So I'd like to know:

Does Odinism have anything to do with this? It would be nice for a show like 48 Hours, Dateline, 60 minutes or one of the cable shows do a deep dive into what Odinism is, and why the defense is claiming a connection.

The opinions of a professional voice analyst for KA's voice.

@Olenna 's post makes a lot of sense. In LISK one of the first things LE said is that they have DNA evidence. They also said how they got it. I also don't recall a prosecution holding back on saying they have DNA evidence. Unfortunately, for RA it appears there is very little to convict him other than his confessions and saying he was there.

If you think the evidence going in was thin, then the forced confessions make more sense. They needed a slam dunk for the jury. I really think that they are barking up a single tree. Unfortunately, for RA, he's already been convicted of doing the whole thing himself in the court of public opinion.

I'd like to see a deep dive into this case using only verified facts. That seems impossible now. Including during the trial.

I agree with a lot of this and not with other parts, but I do with most of it.

RA's biggest problem and that of his attorneys is that they cannot remove him from being there. It is obvious he admitted to being here and there on the trails KNOWING he was seen and by which witnesses and he felt he HAD to. That's what a killer and liar would do, admit to what they HAD to including how dressed, etc. because he was seen. That and more is STRONG.

It was KK setting up a meeting with Libby right in the very same days. Another thing that is not ignorable (is that a word?).

RA did know and this was no accident and this is where we add again, we KNOW he was there.

The O thing I am off on the other side with you. And as interesting as Dateline and 60 Minutes can be, they are TV SHOWS, not LE or investigators. This was all DUE to his confessions. I'd like to know if we add what we want to hear WHAT he said in these FIVE confessions. Did he simply say I did it or did he say THIS is what I did, why, and MORE. Did his mom and wife question and what were the answers or did they just get shocked, upset and hung up?

We do not know the results of the search warrant and one has to think about things Old D does NOT mention. Photos. Artifacts. Souvenirs. Etc. Prosecution isn't going to share such and defense is only going to touch on what is NOT THERE or they DON'T have at THAT TIME.

Prosecution has seemed pretty unshakable. The whole O thing, etc. they responded PROFESSIONALLY to the very juvenile unprofessional meant to publicly make a flap O filing/Frank memo. and since as well.

There is SOMETHING or more than one SOMETHING defense needs to go. Confessions were the first problem but something coming from the search. Imo.

I don't think after all these years they charged with what we the public know only. The gun evidence, his presence. There is more and I'd bet on it. Prosecution is too unflappable. If they wanted to frame someone or charge someone, Kline would have been great and/or more than a few others. Yet they pick some guy that is married, a pharm tech etc. after five years? I seriously doubt it.

I agree with you on the voice analysis. Of course both sides and all will do so and hear it differently BUT I HEARD ALLEN which I posted weeks ago. That IS HIM. On TOP OF IT he places himself there.

The case and facts even if no more evidence (and I think there may be) have to have these things tied together and pointed out VERY WELL.

Again the prosecution hasn't been flappable yet or spurred to respond to the b.s. by the imo b.s. crooked Old D. They have not gotten flappable even over the attacks on the judge.

It seems thin as we don't know it all. Why is the D so desperate? If everything is so weak then why an overblown 10 kazillion page O filing and a leak? Why do they need the search warrant dismissed and its results? After all they and you and others believe there is nothing to the gun/bullet/casing stuff, etc.

No, look at who is desperate.

We don't know everything and you know that. None of us do. Now don't get me wrong, IF the prosecution side charged this without more than we know then that may be a different story. I don't think they did. Of course I could be wrong. We do NOT know what his wife said. Or his employer. And a HECK of a lot of other things. For those that have read the kazillion page Frank memo, was ANY of THAT shared?? Apparently not. Never heard a word of it. Or his time frame seeing family members of that day, whether mom, daughter, wife, work, etc.

Of COURSE we don't know. And why didn't the Old D cover that? And so much more.

AS for evidence going in being thin, you've been around long enough to KNOW you don't put all in a charge document for goodness sakes. Where was this O sh*t in the last year plus before his confessions? The same guards were there right? This didn't work, that didn't work, they didn't even want to travel to see him, then this happened, that happened and then he confessed.

Yah right.

Richard Allen is their man. I hope all the b.s. in this world does not undermine the justice that should prevail.

I don't know if Kline is involved but leave it open. I'm even less on Logan. You are all over the place. But I too don't close thoughts out but I am NOT INTO THE O thing. They have yet to place a one of them there AND we don't know alibis etc.

There is a LOT we don't know. And the Old D shared the selective stuff that helped their client and said NOTHING about what doesn't for evidence. And are the desperate ones.

I don't know HOW prosecutions do it. I saw it. I saw it a lot in our case with detectives and prosecution. It was beyond my capability to try to be quiet as we were supposed to. It weighed hard on us with a need for justice and to share what we knew. But the professionals, nope. They did their job. That's what I see here. No reaction in kind to the b.s. Franks overblown memo by proseceution, just a professional one. And another thing of note, the families are totally SILENT. I know from experience they've probably been advised to be.

It's the defense that is desperate.

IF it turns out all what we know is all there is I will eat my words and have no problem being wrong but I don't think so. Where you call it weak. We don't know sh*t. But everyone worries and thinks they know all. We don't. And it is the D that turned desperate.

I could go on but I've lived this. I don't know why they would have charged this without that one final thing or them knowing more after all of these years. And D is trying to get famous and desperately trying to hang onto their famous client and case.

Allen confessed because he DID IT. Yeah right months to a year went on before he was "coerced"? Timing? I don't think so. Timing in this one tells all by the D.

 

[Olenna]

I never read the entire thing and did not know that, I did know they mentioned lack of DNA. I don't take anything Old D writes or says as truth though. It also does not mean things aren't still being looked at, extracted, tested.

Can you tell me why Kline would even be mentioned in a memo about Os?

I still find it funny Old D would make such an overblown effort to get a warrant thrown out that netted LE nothing and of course they diss the bullet evidence as nothingness. So why then? Just another reason I don't buy it and one has to read between the lines in what they do NOT say as well.

I guess I'd have to see the evidence or discovery they cite these things as facts from and at least see how they worded these statements in their memo and I don't have time to do that so I'm not convinced of it.

I don't think it's an old theory until I see it or hear it and from who and to answer what question but again, I don't have time for it so I'll wait until I catch it in a video I guess Funny none I watched covered that but then since other news was always erupting like the leak most podcasters probably never got that far.

I sure don't think Os then are the new theory either.

Like I said in another post, if KK isn't involved and it's proven then I don't care one way or another. I simply want the entire truth to come out and anyone involved charged and convicted.

Then there's when was what was cited and when were depositions and did they include State officers and FBI...

Anyhow, I'm not going to go too far into it or down that road because I admittedly haven't read the whole ridiculous memo and since I'm not going to be able to anytime soon, then I can't really argue the point knowingly.

Allen had more than five years to get rid of sh*t. Kline we know tried to wipe sh*t and did wipe some. And then there's also always possibilities like burner phones, storage units and more with RA. I'm not talking Kline now, just generally re RA. it takes a long time like in LISK to retrieve some cell etc. stuff and sometimes they can't get it all like the actual texts and of course can't hear conversations that occurred and so forth but they can do a lot and go to the phone of the recipient too or vice versa and so on.

There's something they want gone that that search warrant netted imo. One always has to watch with any attorney as to what they don't say or mention and that's always a big part of the game. Timing too. Timing is everything.

Anyhow, I'm starting to wander and make it a general post so I'll stop. First got home and was catching up on a few.

Anyhow Kline can tie in or not to Allen, I don't care so long as it's fact. He already does tie into Libby and a planned meeting at the very same place. And that's just a little too weird too... Uncanny in fact.

Old D can be trusted as to depositions of LE that they took during discovery. The LE deposition quotes in the Franks' memo were taken from independent court reporter's transcripts while each LE was represented by their own attorney. Therefore, IMO it's a bit naive to suggest nothing Old D filed w/ the court over the entire year can't be taken as truth. It's testimony. Can't recall anything about KK & the O Theory in the Frank's memo.
The O-Theory was a theory of cover-up by mimicking (staging) as if murders were some type of sacrifice.

Unfortunate that folks didn't read the whole Franks memo plus exhibits yet feel free to discard it, degrade it, characterize it as a theory of sacrificial murder (rather than what it was - a theory of idiots badly co-opting Odinist symbols to attempt staging an execution). The Franks memo dealt with and shared a great deal more facts that than Odinism review. Folks might want to read it sometime. The exhibits are where the LE depositions taken by D are - read them. The exhibits have info on other POIs and LE's processing of them. Lots of supporting info is in there. JMHO, Gull showed her hand when - in more than a month's time, when thousands of regular working folks found time to read the Frank's memo and its exhibits ... yet she somehow couldn't make time to read the exhibits ... which was her excuse for never addressing the Frank's memo in Court.

Gull has some gall iykwim.

 

[Olenna]

IF, his confessions were coerced, and you remove them from the equation, you've got nothing, but his saying he was there and witness' that he was.



I thought it was KK setting up a meeting with the girls, the night before as Shots.



If there is no RA-KK communications, then how would RA know about the meeting?

The problem here is that the PD appears to have screwed this thing up over and over. The prosecution isn't doing much to help them, and the defense is doing a good job of muddying the waters.

So I'd like to know:

Does Odinism have anything to do with this? It would be nice for a show like 48 Hours, Dateline, 60 minutes or one of the cable shows do a deep dive into what Odinism is, and why the defense is claiming a connection.

The opinions of a professional voice analyst for KA's voice.

@Olenna 's post makes a lot of sense. In LISK one of the first things LE said is that they have DNA evidence. They also said how they got it. I also don't recall a prosecution holding back on saying they have DNA evidence. Unfortunately, for RA it appears there is very little to convict him other than his confessions and saying he was there.

If you think the evidence going in was thin, then the forced confessions make more sense. They needed a slam dunk for the jury. I really think that they are barking up a single tree. Unfortunately, for RA, he's already been convicted of doing the whole thing himself in the court of public opinion.

I'd like to see a deep dive into this case using only verified facts. That seems impossible now. Including during the trial.

Don't worry, Emu. They'll get there with deep-diving/establishing the verified facts at trial. Part of that work is done early on during discovery, and as mentioned above, some LE depositions were taken to develop certain facts, and those exhibits are in the Frank's Memo, should anyone care to read.

 

[Tresir]

The possible RA-KK comms theory fell apart. They've got nothing, per LE investigators from the most recent deposition reporting in the old D's Frank's memo.

IMO, This suggests the theory relies upon RA just getting "lucky" as to victim selection.

Personally, I don't believe anything in that Frank's memo after the way the old D behaved. They are responsible for that guy's suicide IMO.

They actually accused and named people in the Odin memo, so it wasn't just a theory, I thought.

If the LE depos come out at trial, then I will take note.

 

[Tresir]

Responding to @GrandmaBear (it wouldn't let me quote, for some reason.)

I am wondering if the missing underwear and sock were found during the search of RA's property. That would certainly give prosecution confidence and explain why defence wanted the search warrant gone.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Old D can be trusted as to depositions of LE that they took during discovery. The LE deposition quotes in the Franks' memo were taken from independent court reporter's transcripts while each LE was represented by their own attorney. Therefore, IMO it's a bit naive to suggest nothing Old D filed w/ the court over the entire year can't be taken as truth. It's testimony. Can't recall anything about KK & the O Theory in the Frank's memo.
The O-Theory was a theory of cover-up by mimicking (staging) as if murders were some type of sacrifice.

Unfortunate that folks didn't read the whole Franks memo plus exhibits yet feel free to discard it, degrade it, characterize it as a theory of sacrificial murder (rather than what it was - a theory of idiots badly co-opting Odinist symbols to attempt staging an execution). The Franks memo dealt with and shared a great deal more facts that than Odinism review. Folks might want to read it sometime. The exhibits are where the LE depositions taken by D are - read them. The exhibits have info on other POIs and LE's processing of them. Lots of supporting info is in there. JMHO, Gull showed her hand when - in more than a month's time, when thousands of regular working folks found time to read the Frank's memo and its exhibits ... yet she somehow couldn't make time to read the exhibits ... which was her excuse for never addressing the Frank's memo in Court.

Gull has some gall iykwim.

I'd love to find the time to read it but even if I had the time I doubt I'd find the time to read the voluminous pages and exhibits nor have the patience if I did have the time.

I can tell you of instances with allegations by attorneys AND inaccurate court reporting by independent court reporters who are supposed to type every word.

Even so, that's not my main thing even though I mentioned it, they may well have cited word for word and accurate depo testimony. I have no idea. I do know what some talking heads/experts that some quote as all knowing on other things or cases put the filing down as high schoolish, lacking, unprofessional and more. It's not on my top priority list of things to read at all.

Funny isn't it that the D never moved for sub of judge? Why is that? Everything they do goes outside the normal course of action and procedure. That's okay though as the higher court will fix all on an emergency basis right? Waiting...

Unfortunately since I haven't read it I can't argue with knowledge but I do know other things you've said or inferred from others and then implied here have been wrong. Emergency basis. Then when defense filed something you acted as if the court ruled in their favor. Etc. More than once. So forgive me if I'm not taking what you say as fact OR what the D says either. Or the interpretation of any news you read or podcast you watch as they had the whole urgent emergency basis b.s. and more too.

All meant good humoredly and not personally.

I mean I remain undecided on some things. Maybe most and all in this case are useless, corrupt, can't do the job, not sure. Only thing I am decided on for sure on that basis is Old D. They are BAD NEWS. BAD BAD NEWS. Baldwin at minimum should be disbarred.

Allen does not belong in their hands. Even he deserves competent and ethical attorneys who know how to close a door and use a key. Duh. Intentional. Blatantly so. All of it. TIMING.

Their client confessed and oh MY there went their fame and their case. He's probably been moved to keep their influence and attempts to use him to help THEM from continuing.

Who knows.

No offense intended and by the way I took none either. All in good debate. Enjoy your day and your holidays. We've had our Christmas early and it was a really nice one. Not sure if I'll do anything on the actual birthday of Christ yet or not, but may get together with my one daughter who lives in the same area but not pressing either as we just both were at the family Christmas and traveled together along with my SIL and Grand-dog.

I'm having a ham sandwich on a homemade bun with two kinds of cheese as I type with the leftover ham for breakfast before heading as usual to work. Shifts all over the place this week.

Anyhow again, no offense intended.

Arguments coming up in January. No rushed ruling or urgent decision in D favor. Just saying... And I still just can't figure out why they didn't try to substitute Gull at the trial court level....

They're attorneys and they know the basics right?

LOL. Have a good one.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Personally, I don't believe anything in that Frank's memo after the way the old D behaved. They are responsible for that guy's suicide IMO.

They actually accused and named people in the Odin memo, so it wasn't just a theory, I thought.

If the LE depos come out at trial, then I will take note.

Great points and I agree. Suicide is all but forgotten and matters to no one and same with the leak. Well not to the ones out there who WERE going on and on and trying to influence and run with things. PRETTY silent now out there and has been for a bit. No wonder why., A whole lot of egg on faces.

They did name people, in fact you gave me the names when I didn't know (privately) so as not to share names as defense did, publicly on here, responsibly. And they don't purport it as a theory but AS what HAPPENED. I may not have read all but I sure as heck watched shows where the hosts read chunks of it and had it on screen.

Old D is as corrupt as they come. It's the one thing I'm fully decided on in this case. Baldwin for CERTAIN and I don't excuse Rozzi either. He aligned and he signed and he backed. More than once. And he still is doing so.

But yeah, it was no "O" THEORY. It was STATED as what happened and STATED who did it. They should be sued honestly. In my unprofessional opinion. It wasn't "alleged".

 

[Olenna]

I'd love to find the time to read it but even if I had the time I doubt I'd find the time to read the voluminous pages and exhibits nor have the patience if I did have the time.

I can tell you of instances with allegations by attorneys AND inaccurate court reporting by independent court reporters who are supposed to type every word.

Even so, that's not my main thing even though I mentioned it, they may well have cited word for word and accurate depo testimony. I have no idea. I do know what some talking heads/experts that some quote as all knowing on other things or cases put the filing down as high schoolish, lacking, unprofessional and more. It's not on my top priority list of things to read at all.

Funny isn't it that the D never moved for sub of judge? Why is that? Everything they do goes outside the normal course of action and procedure. That's okay though as the higher court will fix all on an emergency basis right? Waiting...

Unfortunately since I haven't read it I can't argue with knowledge but I do know other things you've said or inferred from others and then implied here have been wrong. Emergency basis. Then when defense filed something you acted as if the court ruled in their favor. Etc. More than once. So forgive me if I'm not taking what you say as fact OR what the D says either. Or the interpretation of any news you read or podcast you watch as they had the whole urgent emergency basis b.s. and more too.

All meant good humoredly and not personally.

I mean I remain undecided on some things. Maybe most and all in this case are useless, corrupt, can't do the job, not sure. Only thing I am decided on for sure on that basis is Old D. They are BAD NEWS. BAD BAD NEWS. Baldwin at minimum should be disbarred.

Allen does not belong in their hands. Even he deserves competent and ethical attorneys who know how to close a door and use a key. Duh. Intentional. Blatantly so. All of it. TIMING.

Their client confessed and oh MY there went their fame and their case. He's probably been moved to keep their influence and attempts to use him to help THEM from continuing.

Who knows.

No offense intended and by the way I took none either. All in good debate. Enjoy your day and your holidays. We've had our Christmas early and it was a really nice one. Not sure if I'll do anything on the actual birthday of Christ yet or not, but may get together with my one daughter who lives in the same area but not pressing either as we just both were at the family Christmas and traveled together along with my SIL and Grand-dog.

I'm having a ham sandwich on a homemade bun with two kinds of cheese as I type with the leftover ham for breakfast before heading as usual to work. Shifts all over the place this week.

Anyhow again, no offense intended.

Arguments coming up in January. No rushed ruling or urgent decision in D favor. Just saying... And I still just can't figure out why they didn't try to substitute Gull at the trial court level....

They're attorneys and they know the basics right?

LOL. Have a good one.

Just FYI. SC has fast-tracked, (not slow-tracked) this hearing on the 18th.