LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Based upon case info to date:

LE has not reversed its public statement that LE believes BG and person(s) other than BG are involved in this crime.
LE has been unspecific as to times of death, times of staging.

LE has clarified that the suspect renderings - of an older guy and years later, the younger guy - in publicly shared renderings - are not intended to represent the same suspect.

The description of the large bleeder wounds on both victims suggest technically efficient, silent, quick executions, suggestive of certain training/skill.
Staging occurred including:
- Victim clothing removed/redressed.
- Bodies were moved.

IMO, the above suggest that simple explanations were abandoned by LE some time ago.

JMHO
I am not sure that LE got everything right. They "lost" the details right from the beginning that RA was there on that day and Dan Dulin, who knew he was there because Allen told him, was right there on the stage at the PC.
Even much later on they were asking about the car when they must have known it was Allen's. They also knew about KK from the very beginning too.

I don't really get it all. Did Allen tell his wife he was on the trails that day?

Who is the younger looking sketch? We were told that was one of the witnesses who gave that description but they did not release that sketch till later.

In fact, if it weren't for Libby's video, I don't think they would have caught him at all.

AJMO
 
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I read that but I am pretty interested in pages 179 to 181 too, I think, it is regarding confessions and mental health.

I have done some screenshots. If reading them on a phone you have to enlarge them a bit to read. Page 181 is just a signature so I haven't bothered to screenshot that. The date of service was 13th June 2023.

View attachment 20683View attachment 20684
Bringing this post forward.

Do we know if the Prosecution got copies of the mental health records yet?
 
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This link is quite old (April 2023) and has probably been posted before but I just want to point out the description of Allen's mental health problem according to his defence counsel. "Psychotic symptoms" and "Schizoprenic and delusional."

Simply put, this version of Richard Allen was very different version than counsel for Mr. Allen had interacted with over the past five months. Mr. Allen appeared to be suffering from various psychotic symptoms which counsel would describe as schizophrenic and delusional. Counsel further believes that in our April 4, 2023 interaction, Mr. Allen seems to be suffering from memory loss and is demonstrating an overall inability to communicate rationally with counsel and family members. Counsel experienced, these symptoms, firsthand, upon visiting Mr. Allen on Monday, April 4th, 2023.

This is the article it was in.
"They also argue that his isolation has made him unable to visit his wife or other family members and that he’s only allowed to make calls to family members through a tablet, which is monitored by prison officials.
Outside of family, his attorneys say that his location makes it hard for them to provide a proper defense, because they have to “travel for hours” to see their client and because of his segregation and isolation he is being “deprived of his constitutional right to assist in his defense.” As an example, Allen’s attorneys claim they provided paperwork to the jail for regarding his defense on March 24 and as of Monday, April 3, he had not yet been given the material.
Because of the conditions in which Allen is being held, his attorneys claim they have noticed a change in his demeanor. They say he has always been polite, communicative and in good humor “in spite of his false arrest,” but they have noticed a “steep decline” in his ability to communicate and assist in his defense.

Simply put, this version of Richard Allen was very different version than counsel for Mr. Allen had interacted with over the past five months. Mr. Allen appeared to be suffering from various psychotic symptoms which counsel would describe as schizophrenic and delusional. Counsel further believes that in our April 4, 2023 interaction, Mr. Allen seems to be suffering from memory loss and is demonstrating an overall inability to communicate rationally with counsel and family members. Counsel experienced, these symptoms, firsthand, upon visiting Mr. Allen on Monday, April 4th, 2023.
Two photos were provided as evidence supporting the motion, one allegedly shows Allen currently incarcerated while the second one allegedly shows Allen a “year or two” prior to his arrest.
Court exhibit of Richard Allen in custody and prior to arrest

This court exhibit shows murder suspect Richard Allen in court in 2023 (L) and a ‘year or two’ prior to his arrest (R). (Carroll Circuit Court via WRTV)
"
 
So all this with the leak, the suicide, the defence standing down, the new defence plus the action against the Judge and the appeal for the old defence to be reinstated has happened since and still the prosecution have not seen those mental health reports.

Trying to find out the status on that. Did the judge deny that or has it not been addressed yet?
 
This link is quite old (April 2023) and has probably been posted before but I just want to point out the description of Allen's mental health problem according to his defence counsel. "Psychotic symptoms" and "Schizoprenic and delusional."


This is the article it was in.
"They also argue that his isolation has made him unable to visit his wife or other family members and that he’s only allowed to make calls to family members through a tablet, which is monitored by prison officials.
Outside of family, his attorneys say that his location makes it hard for them to provide a proper defense, because they have to “travel for hours” to see their client and because of his segregation and isolation he is being “deprived of his constitutional right to assist in his defense.” As an example, Allen’s attorneys claim they provided paperwork to the jail for regarding his defense on March 24 and as of Monday, April 3, he had not yet been given the material.
Because of the conditions in which Allen is being held, his attorneys claim they have noticed a change in his demeanor. They say he has always been polite, communicative and in good humor “in spite of his false arrest,” but they have noticed a “steep decline” in his ability to communicate and assist in his defense.

Two photos were provided as evidence supporting the motion, one allegedly shows Allen currently incarcerated while the second one allegedly shows Allen a “year or two” prior to his arrest.


Court exhibit of Richard Allen in custody and prior to arrest
This court exhibit shows murder suspect Richard Allen in court in 2023 (L) and a ‘year or two’ prior to his arrest (R). (Carroll Circuit Court via WRTV)

"

This is not good enough on pics. They need his current plus others along the way. And again just being caught for one of the most nationally known disgusting crimes and incarcerated with facing no freedom again and/or his intent is reason enough for him to be thinner etc. not eat no beer and all of it. Depressed. Anxious. And pic for comparison was "a year or two" before.

I don't have time to catch up fully here we are having Christmas but just quickly saying...
 
This is not good enough on pics. They need his current plus others along the way. And again just being caught for one of the most nationally known disgusting crimes and incarcerated with facing no freedom again and/or his intent is reason enough for him to be thinner etc. not eat no beer and all of it. Depressed. Anxious. And pic for comparison was "a year or two" before.

I don't have time to catch up fully here we are having Christmas but just quickly saying...
Enjoy your Christmas - just posting as a recap on the defence and prosecution positions before all this other stuff came up.
 
So all this with the leak, the suicide, the defence standing down, the new defence plus the action against the Judge and the appeal for the old defence to be reinstated has happened since and still the prosecution have not seen those mental health reports.

Trying to find out the status on that. Did the judge deny that or has it not been addressed yet?
I really think the judge denied it.
 
This is older info; IIRC, State was denied their request for RF's records - which was expected.


Thanks for having a look at the jailhouse letter. This inmate felt comfortable enough to slam the prison admin ... You'd think would be a risky move. I can't even begin to figure out what's going on there.

The medical records request from State went nowhere (Privacy). BUT the State got the issue on the record, which was probably the objective.
The Franks Memo came out - ostensibly one of its objectives was to frame RA's state of duress at the time of the confessions.
Makes sense that Gull will be asked to allow testimony etc. on this subject of the prison confessions ... and we'll likely see this addressed again in pre-trial, probably with experts. IMO
@Tresir
 
So all this with the leak, the suicide, the defence standing down, the new defence plus the action against the Judge and the appeal for the old defence to be reinstated has happened since and still the prosecution have not seen those mental health reports.

Trying to find out the status on that. Did the judge deny that or has it not been addressed yet?
Yes, I recall judge ruled against, but for some reason I feel like there's an expectation or a possibility that the DA could further develop his request and try again? :thinking: But now we're in a hold pattern so ... nothing since. Except of course, for moving RA to Wabash ( Interestingly, Delphi POIs Kegan Kline and James Chadwell - both already doing time for unrelated crimes - are held at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility.)

Wabash known for having better psych facilities - just something I recall reading but I'm sorry I don't have link for that at the moment.
 
I am not sure that LE got everything right. They "lost" the details right from the beginning that RA was there on that day and Dan Dulin, who knew he was there because Allen told him, was right there on the stage at the PC.
Even much later on they were asking about the car when they must have known it was Allen's. They also knew about KK from the very beginning too.

I don't really get it all. Did Allen tell his wife he was on the trails that day?

Who is the younger looking sketch? We were told that was one of the witnesses who gave that description but they did not release that sketch till later.

In fact, if it weren't for Libby's video, I don't think they would have caught him at all.

AJMO

LE must have made the RA arrest based upon a a theory they believe they've got right. Along with the RA arrest announcement(s) LE stated they believe other(s) were involved, investigation was ongoing in its effort to identify "other(s)". You'd think RA would plea deal by confirming identity of the "other". Thus far, it appears RA's going a different course entirely.
 
I am not sure that LE got everything right. They "lost" the details right from the beginning that RA was there on that day and Dan Dulin, who knew he was there because Allen told him, was right there on the stage at the PC.
Even much later on they were asking about the car when they must have known it was Allen's. They also knew about KK from the very beginning too.

I don't really get it all. Did Allen tell his wife he was on the trails that day?

Who is the younger looking sketch? We were told that was one of the witnesses who gave that description but they did not release that sketch till later.

In fact, if it weren't for Libby's video, I don't think they would have caught him at all.

AJMO

P.S.

LE has not charged RA for more counts than RA's involvement in a murder = felony murder.
No aggravating factors. No intent. No kidnapping.
Explanation by Wieneke (Alan's SC appeal counsel) here:



Richard Allen has been charged with felony murder, NOT knowing/intentional murder. This case is NOT capital or LWOP-eligible, as it is currently charged. The charging information does not allege he knowingly or intentionally killed the girls. And it expressly references Subsection (2) of the murder statute, which is the felony murder provision.

This is important, because IMO it puts the State's comments at the press conference into context that they were still investigating and believed other people may be involved.

The charges, as alleged, mean the State does NOT have to show that Allen actually killed the girls, but only that the girls died while Allen (and maybe others) kidnapped the girls.And to muddy the waters even further, at trial the State can decide to pursue convictions by showing accomplice liability.

That means the State could seek a guilty verdict by showing that Allen didn't even participate in the kidnapping; he merely "aided, induced, or caused" others to kidnap and kill the girls.Law review articles have been written about how squishy the combination of accomplice liability and felony murder can be.


At the moment, we know LE does NOT intend to prove RA killed executed these girls holding the murder weapon (a knife) - we know this b/c he's not been charged that way. Rather, LE points to some unnamed and uncharged (mysterious) "accomplice" since Nov 22, 2022 when McL coughed up that caveat that the case was still open.

JMHO - I'm noodling this possibility:
LE plans to prove a gun-cartridge link to RA and suggest that b/c RA had time to be at the crime scene, that the gun dropped a cartridge at crime scene that RA was present to "force" victim's cooperation. And that's all LE can/will attempt to prove. It appears (and so far) prosecutor is not bringing a charge that requires actual proof that RA held the knife and killed the girls. The charge is that RA was involved and the result was this double murder.

There's a reason that LE is sitting on 60 seconds of Libby's tape and releasing a 1 second BG film and 3 seconds of disparate audio (audio being unrelated to the 1 second visual of BG.)
 
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P.S.

LE has not charged RA for more counts than RA's involvement in a murder = felony murder.
No aggravating factors. No intent. No kidnapping.
Explanation by Wieneke (Alan's SC appeal counsel) here:












At the moment, we know LE does intend to prove RA killed executed these girls holding the murder weapon (a knife) - we know this b/c he's not been charged that way. Rather, LE points to some unnamed and uncharged (mysterious) "accomplice" since Nov 22, 2022 when McL coughed up that caveat that the case was still open.

JMHO - I'm noodling this possibility:
LE plans to prove a gun-cartridge link to RA and suggest that b/c RA had time to be at the crime scene, that the gun dropped a cartridge at crime scene that RA was present to "force" victim's cooperation. And that's all LE can/will attempt to prove. It appears (and so far) prosecutor is not bringing a charge that requires actual proof that RA held the knife and killed the girls. The charge is that RA was involved and the result was this double murder.

There's a reason that LE is sitting on 60 seconds of Libby's tape and releasing a 1 second BG film and 3 seconds of disparate audio (audio being unrelated to the 1 second visual of BG.)

I'm probably the only person here who thinks RA is a lone wolf.
 
Enjoy your Christmas - just posting as a recap on the defence and prosecution positions before all this other stuff came up.
We did. it was a good Christmas. Last year due to weather our plans had to be canceled. We did one in February but wasn't quite the same although good, Christmas was long over. I saw all of my sisters and my mom (my family that way, brothers and dad are passed) and my children and my grandchildren, different lengths of time for all but got to see them all. And then got to see some, not all of, a lot of nieces and nephews and their families. It was really nice and I just don't get to see any of the foregoing even half as much as I'd like to these days so happy that was the case. I didn't think I'd get to see my granddaughter but then today I did for instance.

I planned it and scheduled/took time off for it but even so of course, two days were travel and one and a half maybe there, now back home and not prepared well for work tomorrow (early) but will manage.) Wiped but still was a very nice Christmas. Schedule is pretty screwy upcoming as a result of holidays. I don't get my normal days off and that's another story but anyhow.

Behind on here, been reading and catching up some. Need a shower and need to prepare for work tomorrow as best I can when wiped to no end. Traveled today.

All I'll say about all of the mental things or claims by D with Allen is timing, timing, timing. Every article and fact you've posted, i see timing. I guess it remains to be seen. As far as the records, I think so far the judge has refused to provide them to the prosecution. I'm not 100 percent positive but that's the last I recall.

I am not fully caught up here yet on this thread either.

Here'\s my view of almost all of it and timing: Allen and Defense were playing defense, and then they switched to offense with the Franks memo and leak and then the recent higher court filings, etc. to put the other side in the defense position. And because they had to because defense was not on the ball, doing anything, client confessed, etc. They had to explain it, they had to sn*w it, they had to turn things around and distract. And they did. And sickeningly some out there have lost their memory of what and why.

And that's just on THAT part of all this. Just one example.

But all of their stuff came AFTER and in need of turning the tide AFTER the fact as they scramble and tried first after not knowing what to do a weak mental defense claim, and then they regrrouped, took a while and didn't get it polished and then came the Franks memo.

And that's all just part of all events or lack of same.

I've read not all here yet and caught up but a lot of your posts and others but would say again TIMING. No sign of this before. Hmm. Then there is. Again. And again and other things that show it. And pretty much all stems from the defense. Not Allen himself necessarily in all cases, but for sure from his attorneys. With the mental stuff that appeared out of the blue with again TIMING.

Jmo.

I'm kind of responding to a few I've read, not specifically just this one and not of just yours or anything Just trying to catch up.

Hope all is well with everyone and thanks for wishing an enjoyable Christmas. It was. Not on the actual date of it but it was ours/mine.
 
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Yes, I recall judge ruled against, but for some reason I feel like there's an expectation or a possibility that the DA could further develop his request and try again? :thinking: But now we're in a hold pattern so ... nothing since. Except of course, for moving RA to Wabash ( Interestingly, Delphi POIs Kegan Kline and James Chadwell - both already doing time for unrelated crimes - are held at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility.)

Wabash known for having better psych facilities - just something I recall reading but I'm sorry I don't have link for that at the moment.
I read similar about psych/accommodation/other things about Wabash.
 
P.S.

LE has not charged RA for more counts than RA's involvement in a murder = felony murder.
No aggravating factors. No intent. No kidnapping.
Explanation by Wieneke (Alan's SC appeal counsel) here:












At the moment, we know LE does intend to prove RA killed executed these girls holding the murder weapon (a knife) - we know this b/c he's not been charged that way. Rather, LE points to some unnamed and uncharged (mysterious) "accomplice" since Nov 22, 2022 when McL coughed up that caveat that the case was still open.

JMHO - I'm noodling this possibility:
LE plans to prove a gun-cartridge link to RA and suggest that b/c RA had time to be at the crime scene, that the gun dropped a cartridge at crime scene that RA was present to "force" victim's cooperation. And that's all LE can/will attempt to prove. It appears (and so far) prosecutor is not bringing a charge that requires actual proof that RA held the knife and killed the girls. The charge is that RA was involved and the result was this double murder.

There's a reason that LE is sitting on 60 seconds of Libby's tape and releasing a 1 second BG film and 3 seconds of disparate audio (audio being unrelated to the 1 second visual of BG.)

Does intend to prove or does not? I think in the second to last paragraph you intended to say "does not" or am I just tired and missing it...

The info about the actual charge is interesting although it does come from new D correct? And their guesses on it are guesses although the charge and what it means may be accurate.

I am not one that has let go of Kline, a deal and more to come but perhaps they are just leaving the window open. I know this much, not sure all various state's laws but generally they can change or upgrade or lower charges and are not stuck with what they've charged and may or may not.

Our trial had a second option added not long before trial.

I hope you did enjoy and are enjoying your travel and time. I haven't had time to respond to all posts and such but I do try to at least fast read them over these last couple of weeks particularly when I've lacked time.
 
I'm probably the only person here who thinks RA is a lone wolf.
Well this may surprise you but I think he is too as to the actual murders. It is my main leaning. I do though also think Kline and/or Snapchat and/or the pedo ring may well play into RA knowing, doing, etc. but I see it mainly as just him that day as far as presence.

I don't disallow though for other possibilities but lone wolf is my first leaning. He did it and did it alone. For several reasons. Actually perhaps even a ton of reasons that can be pointed out.

I could though argue otherwise but it goes more against a lot of the facts we know (and we don't know all) but there are some serous questions too that cause that.

But again, I know we don't always agree but I do here and my overall belief is he was a lone killer that day. Not sure as to surrounding things prior, etc. or knowledge, but I think he committed the acts himself. As my FIRST and FOREMOST leaning/theory anyhow. I don't close more out but that's what I truly believe. I do NOT buy into the O thing though.
 
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Does intend to prove or does not? I think in the second to last paragraph you intended to say "does not" or am I just tired and missing it...

The info about the actual charge is interesting although it does come from new D correct? And their guesses on it are guesses although the charge and what it means may be accurate.

I am not one that has let go of Kline, a deal and more to come but perhaps they are just leaving the window open. I know this much, not sure all various state's laws but generally they can change or upgrade or lower charges and are not stuck with what they've charged and may or may not.

Our trial had a second option added not long before trial.

I hope you did enjoy and are enjoying your travel and time. I haven't had time to respond to all posts and such but I do try to at least fast read them over these last couple of weeks particularly when I've lacked time.
Yeah I edited my post b/c I did forget a "not" in the "does not". Good catch, gran! Thanks.
 
I'm probably the only person here who thinks RA is a lone wolf.

I understand.
It's possible BG is lone wolf were BG an athletic trained commando type, control the 2 girls, the terrain and the executions.
Broad daylight, random victims, control, tight window, kill kit, efficient execution.
IMO, if we have a lone wolf here, this is serial killer level stuff.
RA = BG = efficient serial killer ... is a big jump for me. :thinking:
 

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