LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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She offered them the open court hearing which they refused. I still see no criticism of Gull in the SC decision.
Me either. Zero. I feel like I am in an alternate world and some watched a Version Two of the same event on another channel.

Not only that but SCourts don't display bias or at least comment in that way. They QUESTION what the PARTIES allege, that isn't a statement or decision.
 
I wasn't able to load the Fox59 article so here's another link regarding the leaker in court yesterday. Funny it was the same day as the SC decision.


From the article above -

JOHNSON COUNTY, Ind. — The man behind a Delphi murders case evidence leak was in court Thursday.

Mitchell Westerman has been charged with one count of conversion. He’s accused of walking into attorney Andrew Baldwin’s office and taking pictures of case evidence, then sending it to several people.

Westerman was an old friend and colleague of Baldwin’s and admitted to the crime when questioned by police.

Some of that evidence fell into the hands of YouTubers and podcasters. One man from Fishers received the leaked evidence and, in fear of being arrested, committed suicide in October of 2023.



This chain of events led to Westerman being arrested and Special Judge Fran Gull removing attorneys Baldwin and Brad Rozzi from the Delphi murders case. The men represented suspect Richard Allen, who wanted both men to stay on as his legal representation.

The Indiana Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Baldwin and Rozzi can rejoin the case, but they denied Allen’s requests to remove Judge Gull and for a speedy trial. The trial is supposed to begin October 15th.

Westerman’s pretrial conference is set for March 7th.
Some of it "fell" into the hands of YTers. Uh-huh. Baldwin is a naive idot. Uh-huh. Never will I buy it especially when looking at the entire picture, events and more with these attys and this case.

I think there will be more to come on this. Just a guess. If there isn't, there should be.

RIP suicide man.. Few others give a sh*t that your bosses would not save your arse and would deny it all and leave it on you. Not that you made the best choices.
 
Me either. Zero. I feel like I am in an alternate world and some watched a Version Two of the same event on another channel.

Not only that but SCourts don't display bias or at least comment in that way. They QUESTION what the PARTIES allege, that isn't a statement or decision.
hello,
We do NOT yet have the Decision. We only have an order. More arguing ahead! Good news!
 
Some of it "fell" into the hands of YTers. Uh-huh. Baldwin is a naive idot. Uh-huh. Never will I buy it especially when looking at the entire picture, events and more with these attys and this case.

I think there will be more to come on this. Just a guess. If there isn't, there should be.

RIP suicide man.. Few others give a sh*t that your bosses would not save your arse and would deny it all and leave it on you. Not that you made the best choices.

Cut it out. I have le creusets.
 
I wonder if we have the same definition of a hearing.

I see her saying "you can withdraw or I will read this statement to the conveniently assembled press" as an ambush.

My definition of a hearing would have been both sides presenting their arguments. That never happened.

As far as criticism, the Supreme Court took no time reversing her decision. I'd call that a criticism of her procedure.
They had a choice to go to hearing where if it was unfair and they did not get to tell their side, we all would have known and seen that. They bailed like scared mice.

Imo Gull has covered for them or given them more chances than she should.

There is more afoot here. We may never hear it.

All they had to do was go to the hearing and state their defenses or yell for all the cameras to hear and show us all.

No. They didn't want things or some things shared. Imo.

You know I can be pretty naive and stupidly soft but that's more close to home and used to be in cases too. Those blinders have in large part come off in both cases.It still doesn't tell one all because we joe public will never get the true story or all of it, but there's more here. Allen is not the victim but he is as far as his defense and the powers that be. Can't you see the dare, the dance, the carefulness and less than the total truth on either side?

I am cynical with a lot these days but it takes the blinders off big time.
 
I'm sorry, I really have no time to re-listen or timestamp.

This was a hearing on an action against Gull. Critique of the lower Court ... throughout. SCOIN's boundaries and interest in doing the least necessary to reinstate RA's representation rights and get the lower court case back on a speedy trial track ... with tacit recognition that the SCOIN was the only appellate court venue in the position to get this thing quickly back on track ... was clearly expressed, JMHO.

Via the order, it appears they felt the least that was necessary was to fully reverse Gull's decision to remove the old D. Again, we'll know more when the full SCOIN Decision (w/ dissent) is released.
So it was a lower court thing where I like she would assume from your post it was what the ISC said. When we watched it and knew better. Do you go out on M and say such things too? For anyone that doesn't know better to hear and take as gospel?

Again no offense but come on..
 
It was their own decision to stand down that the SC reversed because they changed their mind. I guy killed himself because of what they did.
He killed himself because he knew they would not defend him nor take the "rap" and that attys with a Westerman saying otherwise would leave him the fall guy.

Imo. And it is a very strong opinion.

You and I as we know do not by a long shot always agree but I am glad you for sure and one or two on occasion in here can see what is so clear. Obvious. Etc.
 
Baldwin and Rozzi asked for her to be booted. She asked the ISC for nothing. She didn't get booted. I'd say it is debatable who won.

I will agree her record needed help but that was not argued, nor did a case commence and it's debatable what it was due to as nothing was heard or accepted on that. She had medical issues, the clerk played in supposedly and I agree when they were booted that nothing they filed henceforth should be on the record as they weren't parties or attorneys for a party.

I'm not from IN as you know and you are. You have struggled at times here to believe Baldwin and Rozzi have done as they have. Yet Gull is from there too with quite a good record. Why is it you don't struggle there? Is it political? I honestly don't know what party any are or anything about all other than what has been shared here.

I am seriously, without innuendo or sarcasm asking.

I want to know why you thought Rozzi such an A-1 guy but are quick to believe he judge isn't. For me, other than @Tresir and @Imamazed everyone has bought into this obvious b.s. hook line and sinker. Even @Cousin Dupree and some others think this leak was planned and intentional.

I feel sorry for her or any judge that gets this case and this duo. And I feel sorry for RA which is not a typical feeling for me with an accused perp. These guys are BAD news. Imo.
I'm not sure why you think it's political. We have a constitution. We have trial judge guidelines. We have trial attorney guidelines.
 
I'm gonna stand up for Tresir on this one. :thumb:

(But not the part where it goes conspiratorial and planned by the D.)

Threats from LE ... were the tip of the guy's suicidal iceberg.

don't worry Emu.

FWIW I heard a family quote that RF's (leaker) life was about so much more than redditing and scooping on the delphi channel and he'd been working hard on his personal stuff. That's from the MS shame shame, we're so special shame shame the rest of you episode.

Thanks @Olenna.

While looking for an article that says that I happened across this gem: (I wonder whatever came from this investigation. Did they drop the investigation after he committed suicide?)


Man Who Killed Himself in Standoff Was Possible Suspect in Unsolved 2017 Slaying of 2 Ind. Girls​


"His name has come up through the process," Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said about the possible Delphi murders suspect

ByHarriet Sokmensuer
Published on July 22, 2019 12:55PM EDT

An Indiana man who killed himself after a five-hour standoff with police is being investigated as a possible suspect in the unsolved 2017 double slaying of two young girls.

On June 27, Paul Etter killed himself while surrounded by police during a standoff in Boone County, the Journal & Courier, WFLI and Indianapolis Star report. Etter was pulled over by a Lebanon police officer who noticed the truck he was driving had been reported stolen earlier that day.

Etter was a suspect in the abduction and sexual assault of a 26-year-old woman days earlier. Now, he is also under investigation for his possible connection to the 2017 deaths of best friends Liberty “Libby” German and Abigail “Abby” Williams, the Courier reports.

“His name has come up through the process,” Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said Friday when asked whether he could be the girls’ killer, according to the paper.

On Feb. 13, 2017, 14-year-old Libby and best friend Abby, 13, were dropped off by their family to go for a hike on a local trail. The friends were supposed to be picked up from the trails by family later that afternoon, but they never showed up to the pickup location.

Less than 24 hours later, authorities found the girls’ bodies on the side of a creek, a mile from the trail.

Days after Libby and Abi’s deaths, authorities released photos taken by Libby showing a man on the hiking trail as well as an audio clip and police sketch. The unidentified man was later named the main suspect in the girls’ death.

German and Williams are believed to have been approached by this suspect on the bridge. German was able to record surreptitious video evidence of the man on her cellphone before her death, capturing him saying the eerie words “Guys, down the hill.”

This April, officers released an updated — and notably different — sketch of the suspect, as well as a previously unheard snippet of audio recording from German’s phone. They also unveiled a new bit of video footage of the suspect walking along the Monon High Bridge.

According to the Courier, Etter was a suspect in the five-hour abduction of a woman in eastern Tippecanoe County on June 22. The woman told police she had pulled into Etter’s driveway at 4:30 a.m. after getting a flat tire. When Etter came out to ask if she needed help, she felt uncomfortable, declined his offer and continued to drive down the county road to a friend’s home.

Etter allegedly followed her and when she pulled into her friend’s driveway, he got out of his vehicle, handcuffed her and put her into his vehicle. She says he then drove her back to his family’s farm, where over the course of five hours he allegedly held her against her will and sexually assaulted her.

Afterwards, Etter allegedly dropped the woman back off at her car and evaded police until he was pulled over on June 27.

Tippecanoe County investigators told the Courier Etter’s information was shared with nearby Carroll County authorities as part of police routine.
 
A lot of folks have been confused by the orig charging docs ... what appeared could have been charged based on the PCA vs what was charged ...

So ... yeah, again I'm just thinking how things for the P are going ... just practically speaking. How slow the process seems for the P (all P's really) - to get the funding/approvals needed for the help they need to bring on the case. We see the Franks Memo hit (making more work for the P) ... and some weeks later ... finally some experienced expert help is assigned to the case (the new asst P attorney - an experienced prosecutor).

So ... what does then new P partner do ... familiarize himself and ... fix the charging documents. I like McL but I think he's green - compared to the new asst P who has more experience.

I'm just wearing the P's hat ... take that all for what it's worth.
Who are you talking about that you're referencing as asst P?
 
I'm sorry, I really have no time to re-listen or timestamp.

This was a hearing on an action against Gull. Critique of the lower Court ... throughout. SCOIN's boundaries and interest in doing the least necessary to reinstate RA's representation rights and get the lower court case back on a speedy trial track ... with tacit recognition that the SCOIN was the only appellate court venue in the position to get this thing quickly back on track ... was clearly expressed, JMHO.

Via the order, it appears they felt the least that was necessary was to fully reverse Gull's decision to remove the old D. Again, we'll know more when the full SCOIN Decision (w/ dissent) is released.
I do it too with lack of time but Olenna you go beyond and say things that all others who watched or saw or read the very same thing saw or heard no such thing on and don't link and I don't do that without saying I am unsure or heard this from somewhere, don't take it as fact, etc.
s,etc.

Throughout the ISC defense filings every single time the defense filed something or the public defenders association or whatever you cane in here crowing as if the ISC ruled in their favor? No?

I called it out. More than once. Or things about took on an emergency basis etc. Also false.

Now you are saying things from the actual ISC hearing that none of us heard at all (I am way behind in posts but I watched every live minute). I could be wrong as I did not get to watch a lot after etc. but I heard no such things. Questions? Yes there were questions asking what if this or that was the case and so on.. Not decisions or statements or opinions during the hearing. SCs don't do that.

If I am wrong, link or correct me and I will own up to it and change opinion if deserved. @Tresir seems to be asking the same.

Are you a long termer from JT perhaps? Because it's hard to shake that cult like fear and influence from over there.

Anyhow, I never mean personal offense and as I've said, I enjoy discussion and debate.

What is a new feeling for me is I have never felt sorrier for a perp I think guilty than for RA yesterday being stuck with these two. And that's a hard thing for me to say as I think him guilty of every charge including the new ones.

I have to get away from this thread, I haven't caught up and likely won't and spent a rare day off yesterday following and listening to the entire ISC hearing. it is being recommended that S C O I N not be used by the way. ISC works.

The families and victims get so forgotten in it all, it is disgusting. I know Allen wasn't there, were the families? If they were not that is understandable as well.

I am sick to death of this b.s in what was a horrid two murders of young girls.

Abigail. Liberty. Abby. Libby. Williams. German.

RIP girls. Justice has become a big game but it will come.
 
I am way behind but have to go watch a cooking show or something and have to work tomorrow.

Need a break from the serious and all about others rather than the victims.

Over and out--not one thing meant personally.

I do feel though as if I've been at JT or some such.
 
I'm watching a Dateline about a guy who confessed to a crime, but didn't do it. It was police misconduct. I'm not saying that 100% this is police misconduct. The fact that RA's arrest came just before an election seems hinky.
 
Who are you talking about that you're referencing as asst P?
there's a newly admitted (10/19) experienced prosecution attny that joined McL for the P team. He's the one present in chambers when Gull pulled her nonsense that was taped. He attended the chambers meeting where Gull coerced the D ... and the brief court session after, then returned on 10/30.
 
I do it too with lack of time but Olenna you go beyond and say things that all others who watched or saw or read the very same thing saw or heard no such thing on and don't link and I don't do that without saying I am unsure or heard this from somewhere, don't take it as fact, etc.
s,etc.

Throughout the ISC defense filings every single time the defense filed something or the public defenders association or whatever you cane in here crowing as if the ISC ruled in their favor? No?

I called it out. More than once. Or things about took on an emergency basis etc. Also false.

Now you are saying things from the actual ISC hearing that none of us heard at all (I am way behind in posts but I watched every live minute). I could be wrong as I did not get to watch a lot after etc. but I heard no such things. Questions? Yes there were questions asking what if this or that was the case and so on.. Not decisions or statements or opinions during the hearing. SCs don't do that.

If I am wrong, link or correct me and I will own up to it and change opinion if deserved. @Tresir seems to be asking the same.

Are you a long termer from JT perhaps? Because it's hard to shake that cult like fear and influence from over there.

Anyhow, I never mean personal offense and as I've said, I enjoy discussion and debate.

What is a new feeling for me is I have never felt sorrier for a perp I think guilty than for RA yesterday being stuck with these two. And that's a hard thing for me to say as I think him guilty of every charge including the new ones.

I have to get away from this thread, I haven't caught up and likely won't and spent a rare day off yesterday following and listening to the entire ISC hearing. it is being recommended that S C O I N not be used by the way. ISC works.

The families and victims get so forgotten in it all, it is disgusting. I know Allen wasn't there, were the families? If they were not that is understandable as well.

I am sick to death of this b.s in what was a horrid two murders of young girls.

Abigail. Liberty. Abby. Libby. Williams. German.

RIP girls. Justice has become a big game but it will come.

continuing ... down the laundry list of Olenna's offensive existence:

Hearing vs. comprehending - there's a difference.
Prior to thursday's hearing, I reviewed the filings, read cited decisions - helps with comprehension, allows time to catch subtext, questions, focus, tone.

ISC hearing was greatly expedited: Scheduled for 6 weeks after submissions complete (excluding holidays), ruling in FOUR HOURS - this is - frankly - faster than expedited.

JMHO
 
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I'm saying there's inside baseball within the justice system amongst peers. Why wouldn't there be?

yeah I have a side that's anti-gullish - she'll be gone soon. no worries.


Do you even know what a hard on is? @Cousin Dupree - can you tell her please? everyone is lucky i'm not providing links at the moment. :troutslap:

That blaming the D for a dude's suicide thing is just embarassing.
Olenna"no links atm sorry" - They are lucky LE are not investigating them - maybe they are?
 

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