LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Pics of RA's car at approx 1.43.00 onwards. You can see why it was seen as purple by one witness. Very interesting too the bit about RA confession on April 3rd beginning at 1.47.00.
So he met with his legal team and they gave him his paperwork which he took back to his cell and read and he then called his wife and mother confessing to them and then broke his iPad and ate the paperwork. This all being on camera.
 
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Pics of RA's car at approx 1.43.00 onwards. You can see why it was seen as purple by one witness. Very interesting too the bit about RA confession on April 3rd beginning at 1.47.00.
So he met with his legal team and they gave him his paperwork which he took back to his cell and read and he then called his wife and mother confessing to them and then broke his iPad and ate the paperwork. This all being on camera.
Yeah, I love watching Tom where none of the sensational at all goes on. He is so totally boned up on knowledge of the case, so organized I wish he could help me in life lol, and sees without blinders.

I didn't get to watch much of it and hope to. I happened onto it as it was nearing the end and linked it here for others.

His shows tend to be long which makes it hard to always watch them for me, but I try to never miss one and go back and do so. I feel the need to find some sane in this case or be around some at times lol than all the other that goes on and the many that go for it and add to it.

Yes he'ss talked of the timing of the confessions before and like I keep saying, the TIMING of everything that has went on in this case and that defense has done tells a story imo and yes, RA's timing too as to what spurred confessions. I think way back upwards in the thread I mentioned this and that what he read showed them they had something he had not known of imo and he felt LE had him/has him dead to rights. I actually had forgotten about this for a bit with all the other that's went on but yes, that's been shared before I think and Tom has certainly said it before.

I think it's a bit laughable that defense and their followers and I believe the FM infer guards forced him to call and confess when in actuality, RA's own attorneys gave him paperwork to read and THAT is when he CONFESSED.

Now that you mention it and it is fresh to again, I am also pretty sure I said as I do for other reasons as well, that there's more evidence than we know, just as I've said when everyone assumes all defense filings contain it all and don't omit anything that would not favor their client. I've also said there is something that worries them and plays into wanting that warrant dismissed and needing the huge distraction of the FM and then the leak and even perhaps getting Gull off the case. I think the case is likelly unwinnable for Allen with the evidence so then the only way to win is to explode the case for good or at least buy a ton of time causing a ton of issues. Lots to think on with that and the timing of ALL and each thing defense has done. I don't come in much but I will keep saying TIMING ad nauseum.

I'd love to get Tom to do a timeline for what I see, he is sooooo organized and thorough. Lol.

So they continue to make little sense on another note. They are back on their boomerang. Whining about speedy trial never even filed for in ISC filings, then showing nothing after but needs for delays and no speedy trial filing which was no surprise imo. Just a week or so ago they delayed again claiming a lot of new evidence and discovery and needed time no way could they get through in time but now they have (or have they?) and are ready or can be for a speedy trial? Good Lord

So did RA insist on this? Or more likely is this defense attys themselves again and if so, have they explained to RA that his own attys who he saw say they can't be prepared enough for a deadline that wasn't even trial and go through all evidence just provided but they can be for speedy trial and he should feel assured of that? I certainly wouldn't be feeling assured of anything when saying one week they can't be prepared for a more minor thing but now can be for full on trial. I'd be really worried if in his shoes.

Of course it could simply be they had to or lose the chance to play this card, no idea, I will have to go watch the takes on it. By some channel not on the crazy train. Some good ones have even boarded it although a couple have come more down to earth lately so hopefully I can find one. Maybe Tom went into that? He isn't an attorney but he sure sees a lot pretty clearly.. I figure since it was just filed though he may not have. Actually amazingly most channels and news that have been out there have went pretty silent on this case in the last month or so. Interesting.

It's funny but even though somewhere I still have outrage and disgust at the behavior here and I feel lack of ethics and serious lack of intelligence and professionalism (sorry to any who disagree but it is what I feel I've seen displayed), I realized last night and this morning, now I am beginning to just find these attorneys tiresome, I am actually a bit bored by it all, and I find that interesting and didn't expect it. I'lll probably watch Tom if I get time or play it while I take care of other things, I ALWAYS find his shows worthwhile but this news doesn't even strike me. It's like ho hum, big deal.

That in turn as I realize it just now makes me wonder can they do this to the public too or could they to a jury if they go on long enough with various things at trial, or stunts and so on? To where a jury just gets to where they quit listening to them....? Because that's kind of how I'm feeling. I'm not even curious about finding out more if there is more and just kind of "so what" about it.

I will say though and I'd never assume this in any case and can't be sure in this one that I'd hedge a bet in THIS one that the prosecution is prepared if speedy trial comes about. I think they've methodically been doing their job all along while having to deal with the intentional defense distractions and leaks and problems. If this does result in a speedy trial, I'd put my odds on who handles it better being the P.

However, I also think D may have a few more on board than they let on. I mean all one has to do is look at the assistance that came with the ISC and from the PD coalition and more... Nothing would surprise me. And a "surprise" would probably bore me and seem pretty expected by this point anyhow, and sorry to say, predictable when it comes to them as to if there will be one and what it might be... I'd say lol, but don't even have that much interest. Just kind of blase about it all right now.

I will watch Tom regardless as it is always worth it and I want to see the things that refresh some of what I had forgotten about with all the other off track kind of stuff lately largely having nothing to do with the case and the facts.

Just kind of a first morning off catch up and thoughts. I actually got 8 hours of sort of sleep, not all uninterrupted but that's rare. I always want such on a day off and need it but it never happens. Last couple were kind of half awake but made myself stay in bed and kind of half asleep drifting on and off. Soto kept playing in my mind. That case from the start almost really gets to me/ Audrii's just as bad or worse (there is no worse in cases but...), however hers has quieted for the moment so it is thankfully where a person can try to put aside/compartmentalize those details and not think about them until one has to again and have BOTH doing that which was the case for a bit. There is an arrest, she was recovered dead, nothing is going to change that. Soto, there is an arrest and charges BUT not for her murder yet and mom Is questionable so it is with questions yet and very awful. I also watched an interview of the parents of the 15 year old missing autistic boy the other night and want to share on that but I often end up not able to hit all threads so maybe I'll just give my recap and no detail on all in the current crimes thread. Bigsby is in trial and more. Some cases no one discusses anyhow sadly.

So that's it for here. I don't worry about reading all or following it but do drop in on occasion and read the ones I land on. And will always try to drop what I feel likely a good show or new info on a case and Tom is always worth it imo. He is not a "crime" podcaster as with some who try too hard to cover ever single case, that's what Grizzly is doing. Tom is mostly just Delph and totally Delphi knowledgeable. He pretty much does ONE case. I've seen him have another show or two on rare occasion but it isn't his life, he isn't in it for $$ ot to become the biggest crime channel and is just the best imo with this case. Fact and document oriented and gets the docs and facts and organizes them and knows th em.

Enough by me anyhow. Good morning and see yas.
 
I am only 12 minute into Tom's video and he gives a complete update on all things that have went on since the last one has seen and thank goodness.

So this new evidence and discovery they were whining about it simply a return of discovery they already HAD that was taken from them givent o the new public defender's and now has been returned to them for starters. I don't buy their bull for a moment with that one now that I know that is what it is. Also seeing the response by the state to defense's claims with that and their own failure to provide quid pro quo. I don't know how much more obvious some things could be...

Also a request recently for a transcript they requested and were provided like back in October or something of last year. So clerk sent another copy as they requested one.

They aren't organized at minimum or who knows, maybe Westerman has their first copy lol and more and haven't done their job or been through sh*t or they are lying about it entirely all along... When they did the FM they had been through a lot or all and picked and chosen all the things that supported that right... Now they act as if they haven't had stuff or nearly been through all and had to request another transcript which they'd already received and what, lost? What is this law firm? Do they organize and file? Have support staff?? I guess it is actually two law firms isn't it...

Tom could help them organize.

I think if this goes to a speedy trial (which I highly doubt) some things are going to be really obvious for those that want to see them. Maybe painfully so. Of course maybe they have help now culling out everything they've never bothered to look at... But since the case is sealed don't they have to disclose who has access if that would be the case.... But then since when do they...

I need Tom both organizing my brain, my home and my life. Lol.
 
So i can't stress this enough, Tom is a calm in the storm. And if anyone does not know he is as unobjectified as one can get with no agenda. He questions and calls out the prosecution too. He is a good one for all to watch, he is entirely fact based, without agenda, and as unswayed emotionally as one could be in looking at things from all sides. This is a long show but after the first 25 minutes or a bit plus he is done with covering the events and filings since his last coverage. Watch that at least. And maybe all was linked or posted here, I have no clue as I don't have time to keep up, don't read all here and don't look at all links but he goes through each and every single one and there is a lot more that has been filed or went on than I was aware of or since I last could watch a summary. I do come in occasionally and read the posts just where I land and I've seen no discussion on some of this.

Half an hour covers the last period of time's filings, decisions and updates and he is methodical and researched. He even researched every witness the defense listed for the contempt hearing. I am probably more up to date than many after watching 1/2 hour of his show. And a lot more filings and decisions have went on than I was aware of. And he isn't pro P or pro D that is why he'd be a good balance for all of us.

I love Tom. Seriously. No one is perfect and don't get me wrong and at times I have a differing opinions but he is as unbiased and fact driven as one can GET.

AFter the half hour he is going into viewer questions. I am going to guess the car video comes at the end based on what he said in the beginning. I don't know if I will get to watching all viewer questions or not but I watched all updates on every filing and decision in this case in recent weeks. Not dull either. I'd highly recommend.
 
Yeah, I love watching Tom where none of the sensational at all goes on. He is so totally boned up on knowledge of the case, so organized I wish he could help me in life lol, and sees without blinders.

I didn't get to watch much of it and hope to. I happened onto it as it was nearing the end and linked it here for others.

His shows tend to be long which makes it hard to always watch them for me, but I try to never miss one and go back and do so. I feel the need to find some sane in this case or be around some at times lol than all the other that goes on and the many that go for it and add to it.

Yes he'ss talked of the timing of the confessions before and like I keep saying, the TIMING of everything that has went on in this case and that defense has done tells a story imo and yes, RA's timing too as to what spurred confessions. I think way back upwards in the thread I mentioned this and that what he read showed them they had something he had not known of imo and he felt LE had him/has him dead to rights. I actually had forgotten about this for a bit with all the other that's went on but yes, that's been shared before I think and Tom has certainly said it before.

I think it's a bit laughable that defense and their followers and I believe the FM infer guards forced him to call and confess when in actuality, RA's own attorneys gave him paperwork to read and THAT is when he CONFESSED.

Now that you mention it and it is fresh to again, I am also pretty sure I said as I do for other reasons as well, that there's more evidence than we know, just as I've said when everyone assumes all defense filings contain it all and don't omit anything that would not favor their client. I've also said there is something that worries them and plays into wanting that warrant dismissed and needing the huge distraction of the FM and then the leak and even perhaps getting Gull off the case. I think the case is likelly unwinnable for Allen with the evidence so then the only way to win is to explode the case for good or at least buy a ton of time causing a ton of issues. Lots to think on with that and the timing of ALL and each thing defense has done. I don't come in much but I will keep saying TIMING ad nauseum.

I'd love to get Tom to do a timeline for what I see, he is sooooo organized and thorough. Lol.

So they continue to make little sense on another note. They are back on their boomerang. Whining about speedy trial never even filed for in ISC filings, then showing nothing after but needs for delays and no speedy trial filing which was no surprise imo. Just a week or so ago they delayed again claiming a lot of new evidence and discovery and needed time no way could they get through in time but now they have (or have they?) and are ready or can be for a speedy trial? Good Lord

So did RA insist on this? Or more likely is this defense attys themselves again and if so, have they explained to RA that his own attys who he saw say they can't be prepared enough for a deadline that wasn't even trial and go through all evidence just provided but they can be for speedy trial and he should feel assured of that? I certainly wouldn't be feeling assured of anything when saying one week they can't be prepared for a more minor thing but now can be for full on trial. I'd be really worried if in his shoes.

Of course it could simply be they had to or lose the chance to play this card, no idea, I will have to go watch the takes on it. By some channel not on the crazy train. Some good ones have even boarded it although a couple have come more down to earth lately so hopefully I can find one. Maybe Tom went into that? He isn't an attorney but he sure sees a lot pretty clearly.. I figure since it was just filed though he may not have. Actually amazingly most channels and news that have been out there have went pretty silent on this case in the last month or so. Interesting.

It's funny but even though somewhere I still have outrage and disgust at the behavior here and I feel lack of ethics and serious lack of intelligence and professionalism (sorry to any who disagree but it is what I feel I've seen displayed), I realized last night and this morning, now I am beginning to just find these attorneys tiresome, I am actually a bit bored by it all, and I find that interesting and didn't expect it. I'lll probably watch Tom if I get time or play it while I take care of other things, I ALWAYS find his shows worthwhile but this news doesn't even strike me. It's like ho hum, big deal.

That in turn as I realize it just now makes me wonder can they do this to the public too or could they to a jury if they go on long enough with various things at trial, or stunts and so on? To where a jury just gets to where they quit listening to them....? Because that's kind of how I'm feeling. I'm not even curious about finding out more if there is more and just kind of "so what" about it.

I will say though and I'd never assume this in any case and can't be sure in this one that I'd hedge a bet in THIS one that the prosecution is prepared if speedy trial comes about. I think they've methodically been doing their job all along while having to deal with the intentional defense distractions and leaks and problems. If this does result in a speedy trial, I'd put my odds on who handles it better being the P.

However, I also think D may have a few more on board than they let on. I mean all one has to do is look at the assistance that came with the ISC and from the PD coalition and more... Nothing would surprise me. And a "surprise" would probably bore me and seem pretty expected by this point anyhow, and sorry to say, predictable when it comes to them as to if there will be one and what it might be... I'd say lol, but don't even have that much interest. Just kind of blase about it all right now.

I will watch Tom regardless as it is always worth it and I want to see the things that refresh some of what I had forgotten about with all the other off track kind of stuff lately largely having nothing to do with the case and the facts.

Just kind of a first morning off catch up and thoughts. I actually got 8 hours of sort of sleep, not all uninterrupted but that's rare. I always want such on a day off and need it but it never happens. Last couple were kind of half awake but made myself stay in bed and kind of half asleep drifting on and off. Soto kept playing in my mind. That case from the start almost really gets to me/ Audrii's just as bad or worse (there is no worse in cases but...), however hers has quieted for the moment so it is thankfully where a person can try to put aside/compartmentalize those details and not think about them until one has to again and have BOTH doing that which was the case for a bit. There is an arrest, she was recovered dead, nothing is going to change that. Soto, there is an arrest and charges BUT not for her murder yet and mom Is questionable so it is with questions yet and very awful. I also watched an interview of the parents of the 15 year old missing autistic boy the other night and want to share on that but I often end up not able to hit all threads so maybe I'll just give my recap and no detail on all in the current crimes thread. Bigsby is in trial and more. Some cases no one discusses anyhow sadly.

So that's it for here. I don't worry about reading all or following it but do drop in on occasion and read the ones I land on. And will always try to drop what I feel likely a good show or new info on a case and Tom is always worth it imo. He is not a "crime" podcaster as with some who try too hard to cover ever single case, that's what Grizzly is doing. Tom is mostly just Delph and totally Delphi knowledgeable. He pretty much does ONE case. I've seen him have another show or two on rare occasion but it isn't his life, he isn't in it for $$ ot to become the biggest crime channel and is just the best imo with this case. Fact and document oriented and gets the docs and facts and organizes them and knows th em.

Enough by me anyhow. Good morning and see yas.
Yes he explains he did Missy Bevers and Delphi only - he explained that in this video and does go over a lot of things clarifying and answering questions. One thing he mentions is that it was RA's day off from CVS. So that was something I had suggested was possible and he confirms it.

I alteady provided the times if you just want to see the car.

I haven't yet watched the last bit after the car, so will get to watch that later, probably another half an hour.
 
Yes he explains he did Missy Bevers and Delphi only - he explained that in this video and does go over a lot of things clarifying and answering questions. One thing he mentions is that it was RA's day off from CVS. So that was something I had suggested was possible and he confirms it.

I alteady provided the times if you just want to see the car.

I haven't yet watched the last bit after the car, so will get to watch that later, probably another half an hour.
I haven't watched it all. Just up to he point he starts to answer chat questions. That is one thing I have always wanted to KNOW. It WAS a day OFF of RA's??? I have ALWAYS wondered and wanted that kind of "minor" detail.... That is big to me, thank you. So one can figure the daughter was off school too. I wonder about wife. Why not do something with daughter or family if all off... Some may think it minor but I WAIT for the day we know what wife said about that day and night and more...

Was wife off and he told them both go to the city shopping, have a girls' day... I'm just gonna hang around here and maybe go take a walk...

Yes Missy Bivers was his first. He gets into one and one only. He has the most knowledge out there and he just keys to it. And NO agenda or even desire to be right. Or a big channel. Or anything. I would say that typically isn't possible but it truly is with him. If I recall and I am not saying this, I believe he did when I first started watching him, he has autism traits I believe or is on the spectrum. He dials in and he has a different sense of humor but one I love lol. People after Biver (and I didn't watch that nor know of him then) begged him to take on another and do more and I believe this one.

The last one I watched someone gave him a bit of I don't know if mean or fun flak for wearing "gingham". He had no clue what it meant and had to look it up and of course we know that is checked or plaid. He took it in stride. He is UNFLAPPABLE as well but so good at what he does with this.

I may watch the car and even watch the questions and answers but same, I need to get some things done and really wanted the updates from him he covers them ALL from defense, prosecution, judge, etc. I know of not another place these days that does and people sure don't talk of it all to pick up on it.
 
I got the idea that RA's daughter would be a similar age to KK so I don't think she would have been school age in 2017. Maybe college perhaps? Will have to check. Do we have an age for KK?

ETA he was 29 when sentenced last year so would have been 22 or 23 in February 2017, think.
 
I got the idea that RA's daughter would be a similar age to KK so I don't think she would have been school age in 2017. Maybe college perhaps? Will have to check. Do we have an age for KK?

ETA he was 29 when sentenced last year so would have been 22 or 23 in February 2017, think.
I had the impression she was older high school at the time... Isn't the photo of her which is creepy considering all, of her on the bridge in a tye dye shirt a grad photo, senior picture...?
 
I had the impression she was older high school at the time... Isn't the photo of her which is creepy considering all, of her on the bridge in a tye dye shirt a grad photo, senior picture...?
This DM article from Nov 2022 says she is 28 and later in the article states KK as 27 so they would have been 23 and 22 respectively in 2017. The pic of her on the bridge is in this article too and it says it was posted to Facebook in 2018, so she would have been aged 24 then if it was taken that same year, but it is not known exactly when the photo was taken.

Link below.

 
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This DM article from Nov 2022 says she is 28 and later in the article states KK as 27 so they would have been 23 and 22 respectively in 2017. The pic of her on the bridge is in this article too and it says it was posted to Facebook in 2018, so she would have been aged 24 then if it was taken that same year, but it is not known exactly when the photo was taken.

Link below.

Okay that's actually more interesting in a way. I thought of her as just a bit older than Kelsey but no reason for that really I guess and I knew she was married and so on at this point...

So there is no dating the pic on the bridge? I thought it was known for some reason and like I said I thought it was likely a senior photo or maybe I assumed that because that's about what senror photos and backdrops would be...

What it does show clearly as that daughter, family and RA are not unfamiliar with their local bridge and trails as most there likely are... If it was before the murders, I don't know that I think it more disturbing and after was bad enough... I don't like to leap but the resemblance of her to Libby and the shirt AND the bridge are downright EERY. So if it can't be dated it came from FB or some such but no proof when taken? Meaning I could post a picture there right now of my two year old daughter taken 30 some years ago and no one would know the actual picture date...
 
I have went to listening to Tom's questions and responses which are also worth it. Everyone here should know he is not even decided on Allen's guilt and he often calls out either side with what he sees. He is a GREAT unbiased rational source that brings great sanity to this case. I didn't expect chat questions to bring more info but they have. it's the last thing I need to be doing rather than dealing with real life although I have done some of that in between. Not as much as I should but some... Lol.
 
Next post will be the filing. The filing brings up the possibility the prosecution has defense work notes.

03/07/2024Witness and/or Exhibit List Filed
LIST OF ADDITIONAL WITNESSES AND EXHIBITS FOR CONTEMPT HEARING
Filed By:
Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp:
03/07/2024
 
maybe they met it already, no idea. been too busy watching the catch up on all that seems to never be discussed thank you Tom Webster, but they hadn't last I knew.
 
So this appears to be a lot of youtubers content they are providing as evidence presumably of other people leaking stuff. I don't really see how this absolves them of leaking the CS photos but then I guess we shall have to see how it pans out in court. I notice they mention the suicide guy's name with some others one of whom I have not heard of so I may look him/her up.

Thanks for finding and posting this. Very interesting.
 
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The case that just keeps on giving and giving. I feel so sorry for A & L's families it isn't even funny. They've went through the hardest thing anyone ever could to begin with and then get to deal with all this b.s on top of it.

Personally I think medical records should be sancrosanct generally but not when defense forever has used mental status as a reason or excuse, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. That is one area Gull has always sided with the defense, THUS far, unlike many think she ever does. And I disagree with it. If you are going t USE it then you have to SHARE it.

I hate ex parte communications and think they should not exist. I know what they are. This is where one party contrary to normal practice is able to talk to a judge privately without the other side knowing the details of what is talked of or even that such was done at times. Think about that, it goes against imo just about all openness and fairness of what is to be an open court system and is ripe for trouble.

BUT and some may not believe I'd say this--IF there was ex parte communication or filing AND the prosecutor knows the details in such, then that NEEDS to be looked into and determined how. Based on history here I am not going to jump to anything since this is exactly what the defense would love to show in retaliation for THEIR slaps for leaks and so on but IF something went on that should not have, it deserves to be gotten to the bottom of as to how. I find it a bit uncanny since it is just what the defense would love and need, but we shall see and IF there truly is no way the prosecution should have or could have known, then that deserves to be outed. Not going to jump but if so, it does.

I'm so used to smoke and mirrors here that I know to wait instead of jump to conclusions.

If true, it would make NM really stupid and whoever shared ex parte info as well. A bit hard to believe anyone could be that dumb in a case such a this with so much disection and attention.

I've learned to wait and see in this case. I also do not understand to begin with what is so private about funding and the need for an ex parte communication.

Believe it or not, however, I'm fair and IF there is such known by some avenue it should not be known then that is as wrong as anything the defense has pulled as well which imo should have put the ff the case and all should go. We will see.

I don't feel sorry for most defendants but what a clusterf**k but I don't feel as sorry for who confessed and I believe without a doubt killed these girls as I do for the girls' families and those watching this circus and our "system". IF both sides are abusing it, they all need to go.

But again I have learned to wait and see in this one.
 

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