LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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They leaked crime scene evidence of two young girls that was under a gag order that then caused another death. That's fact, so I cannot see how they are not in contempt. Gull already thought that which is why they took themselves off the case. They knew. This is just a rubber stamp on that IMO. You think they will just be fined for that?
My own opinion is yes. They should be fined. I have yet to see or hear there has been a formal complaint filed against either of them with the Bar Association. If they deserve (legally) to be thrown off the case, then there should have been a formal complaint filed against them.
 
I think he's right in MOST cases the prosecution has it right. MOST, but not all. Look at the evidence and tell me the prosecution got it right in the McStay murders. I think an innocent man is behind bars in that one.

MOST, does not mean all. The WM3 were innocent and one was on death row. So how the fact that MOST cases are adjudicated correctly doesn't apply here. This could be one where they've got it wrong. Explain to me how RL's phone pinged around 10pm near the murder site, the night before the bodies were discovered? Explain to me why his alibi is BS and that doesn't matter.

Take a look at this:

Yes, but that was that and this is this. Once again, I feel like Dr. Seuss.

Nanny Seuss to Thing 1, 2, and 3. OT. Sorry. Lol.
 
IIRC, the battery died. Usually there's more information on a crime than has been given out here.
Yeah, info is that the last ping (apparently from Libby's phone) was at about 5:30pm that same day. Interestingly, there's no info as to what area it pinged, that is, whether it was in the area of the bridge or elsewhere.
 
I think he's right in MOST cases the prosecution has it right. MOST, but not all. Look at the evidence and tell me the prosecution got it right in the McStay murders. I think an innocent man is behind bars in that one.

MOST, does not mean all. The WM3 were innocent and one was on death row. So how the fact that MOST cases are adjudicated correctly doesn't apply here. This could be one where they've got it wrong. Explain to me how RL's phone pinged around 10pm near the murder site, the night before the bodies were discovered? Explain to me why his alibi is BS and that doesn't matter.

Take a look at this:

Explain to me why you think this in basically every case. And as your Vinnie said he can do a TV show to make just about anyone who buys into picked and chosen things believe so MANY and MOST are wrongfully convicted which is what he is hinting at is the thing these days and that he could do it too. I'm sorry, but you are this way in almost every case and so you are one of those he is talking of who thinks from watching such steadily (and you do get into watching the same kinds of things to no end) that it likely applies to all or at least most.

Case in point you just named a couple. That isn't what you do here though, it is in almost EVERY case, you are convinced of it yet you will convict RL? That can't be explained to me. That is total bias and opinion no?

RA has not been convicted so that certainly does not apply and your own Vinnie makes the point I have many a time, in most cases, a DA won't even charge if there isn't enough nor a court continue the case if not enough cause. In Michael Vaughn's the DA keeps refusing to charge where cops thinkt there is enough. That's how the MAJORITY of it goes.

You now try to dial it to not "most" but you bring it up in almost every case the WM3 and you name it and wrongful convictions. Then you say in this one they could have it wrong. The phone stuff and Delphi's tower has been explained by many. The man LIVED there. RA is innocent yet RL you are sure is guilty.

You are stuck on wrongful convictions. It is your recent thing. Before that it was RL...

There are SOME sure. Of course. There are no absolutes with anything in life for the most part. NOW after I give you Vinnie's thing you are saying in MOST cases prosecution has it right. in no way is that how you have been talking.

Vinnie as much as said he can take any solid case and 80 or 90 percent or whatever it was that Court TV covered with convictions and if he WANTED to do that twist and show only what supports that he could convince people just as these shows are doing. He is going up in my esteem as he tries to do a bit more and did his own channel on this one... With not all that many subscribed viewers. I don't do TV much as I've said a million times for a lot of reasons. I do know that you do. Yep they can convince some of anything...

No offense and I still am not talking to you but I guess I did here.

Don't change your mantra now and that's what you just did.

I'd like to see Vinnie do an entire show on this and how TV and what they are to do and make the show for shapes the opinions of some.

RA has not been wrongfully convicted either I'd just add. ANd RL was NEVER charged. So really no clue where you come from, seems kind of hypocritical.
 
IIRC, the battery died. Usually there's more information on a crime than has been given out here.
Yes, prosecution hasn't leaked. There is a lot of info given out, what do you mean, it comes from the defense. There just hasn't been the prosecution side leaked or filed sharing oodles to influence, as they stick to not leaking, the investigation and the gag order. Imo.
 
We have been told that there is only one tower in Delphi so the ping would not be accurate - two towers are needed for accuracy. If RL's phone pinged at 10 pm it is because he lived there. Also if that is true that they could pin point it to the murder scene with accuracy, then it will apply to RA too and his phone will show him there for 2+ hours but no RL there at that time.

Also, if the pings are accurate, why couldn't they find the girls via phone pings?
Exactly. It's all been explained by many.

For the RL search warrant as well, they amped up all they could to get one. That's also been shown. And it isn't something that is unusual.
 
How can they be doing a good job if they have been thrown off the case once already , and are now in contempt of court for breaching a gag order? Isn't that simply one of the first things they should have learnt in Law school ?- "how to safeguard evidence."

Another thing - didnt RA confess in April '23? Yet R&B went ahead with drafting this Frank's memo in August and September, knowing he had already confessed and leaking the side by side CS photos the following month causing the suicide of one of the leakers.

These lawyers have that death on their watch, as a result of their contemptuous actions and conduct.
When defense first learned of his confessions, they stumbled and mumbled something about his mental state it must have been and it took them a bit for that. It was clear they had didn't know sh*t. At that point, even those who were on the fence about Allen and the few defense filings about him being in a prison, and maybe outraged about that (prisonvvs. jail) changed their tune BIG time in the public. He CONFESSED and now many thought of yes he definitely is guilty. THEN ... What did defense do...

Man if I live long enough and even when this case is long over and it is ten years from now and I have any memory I am going to do a timeline of what is sooo obvious...

And that's without friends how didn't pass the bar but were not an employee but just a friend who popped in who now it is known was more than that and things were given to for opinon and help and reaqlly was kind of an employee, etc.

And YES there was a DEATH over this LEAK.

There is sooooo much that it isn't being out there to see it, it is being out there imo to ignore it all.

I can defend Gull to this point but I am not even saying I am sure on her, but look at what the heck is going ON HERE. I don't know how some can't see it. You do. Thank God. They are NOT ethical, they HAVE lied. Westerman is their scapegoat the one in between and paid for it I'm sure. Psheesh I tis like B & R think they are the IN mafai. Have that padding in between, your hit man, your leaker, a suicide.... What was that guy REALLY worried about? That he had failed and there would be consequences... Culdn't give up the others so what do you do if you feel you are going to go down. That of course if it is suicide. I haven't went that far but looking at this all...

You see it because it is RIGHT THERE so clear. ALL of it with this defense. Thank God you do.

I'd better stop there. Called it on Westerman and the real relationship and chain long before they ever admitted just recently putting things to him for his opinion, etc. or we heard of recently. OBVIOUS. It was OBVIOUS. Why two bar passing established attorneys rely on one who never passed is a hard one to understand...
 
IIRC, the battery died. Usually there's more information on a crime than has been given out here.
Her phone was working when she posted to Snapchat and took the video of BG. It ran for at least 43 seconds so her battery was ok then. The phone would have been pinging then right? So why, if phone locations are so accurate that they could pinpoint where RL was on his premises at 10:30 pm, why isn't it the same for the girls at 2.30pm in the afternoon? All phones use the one tower presumably. I remember the comment that her phone was "pinging all over town" so that was clearly bull right?
 
The pinging all over town came out at the outset and created a lot of talk that the girls were out being teenagers and running around with friends, in a car, etc. in town. They then came out and tried to shut that down as not accurate in learning what their lack of towers do and so on. Has anyone here ever tracked anything back into the days, GPS on your own car, your child, your dog, your called, etc.? The map data on such apps will look as though you are at say your mom's home and yet you were a 1/4 mile away at the gas staiton and you KNOW that but it will place you like within a foot of your mom's front door, etc. When you are traveling down the road it will place you as stopped off road by how many feet and not ast a stop sign down the road and so on. This is imo what happened here in this small town with sh*t for towers with the girls and even with RL. It is vastly different than where they can triangulate or where a lot of towers exist and phones now have a lot more as well to do with it as I understand it and enhanced and more towers, satellites and so on.

It is a great point that her phone then should have come back to L & A's location as well at the same time she was filming and putting up a SC pic etc.

I also disagree that there's a lot more info on most crimes given than what has been here. Many keep a lot hush byLE in investigations which of course bothers all of us who want more info.but in many cases, wisely so.

Also little is said about Allen having his phone which we know he did with his stock ticker looking, etc. if telling the truth. Of course five years after the fact trying to show his there could be an issue. It also shows though that apparently at that time they couldn't triangulate or do a tower dump for those just in the vicinity of the trails and not the general area at large OR they did, his was there but he admitted to being there so it made sense he was there. I doubt that though since no one except the Dulin seemed to have awareness RA was there at all.

Phone sh*t at the time I don't think is going to be a big factor in this case although recovery of texts and some things if from any (Libby's, Allen's, etc. MIGHT)) but if so, we sure haven't had a hint of it.

Finally they should also have dad's cell phone usage proof and searchers if they have RL's and sp pm shouldn't they, at the trails. And those of the eyewitnessse and so on if phones were with.

My guess is they couldn't do a tower dump or anything as it would show everyone in Delph or at the trails or on the road, etc. and because nothing comes back to an accurate location.

Now in LISK they have been able to do a LOT that way and it is a FAR older case/ but one is talking Mahnattand and NYC versus little old rural Delphi...

I don't understand all the high tech cell stuff and experts BUT I understand a bit. And I can tell you even tracking will in a rural area show your dog etc in a spot they aren't in, in an area there are a few towers more than Delphi but less than like NYC where you have things like major media and the stock exchange and of course were way ahead of us rural place on tech and so on...

Never really thought this out before or thought of what I've seen with such...
 
They requested his work records from CVS. I saw it today in the big bunch of documents that was released some time ago. I'll link it here but it is over 250 pages.

I have had time to look thru this again and Page 152 in the document in the link above is the page that shows where the prosecution requests his work records. They are talking about his mental health just before that.Screenshot_20240306-084737_Word.jpg

I tried to attach the document but it is too large to attach (284 pages) so I have put the screenshot of page 152 above showing the request.
 
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The pinging all over town came out at the outset and created a lot of talk that the girls were out being teenagers and running around with friends, in a car, etc. in town. They then came out and tried to shut that down as not accurate in learning what their lack of towers do and so on. Has anyone here ever tracked anything back into the days, GPS on your own car, your child, your dog, your called, etc.? The map data on such apps will look as though you are at say your mom's home and yet you were a 1/4 mile away at the gas staiton and you KNOW that but it will place you like within a foot of your mom's front door, etc. When you are traveling down the road it will place you as stopped off road by how many feet and not ast a stop sign down the road and so on. This is imo what happened here in this small town with sh*t for towers with the girls and even with RL. It is vastly different than where they can triangulate or where a lot of towers exist and phones now have a lot more as well to do with it as I understand it and enhanced and more towers, satellites and so on.

It is a great point that her phone then should have come back to L & A's location as well at the same time she was filming and putting up a SC pic etc.

I also disagree that there's a lot more info on most crimes given than what has been here. Many keep a lot hush byLE in investigations which of course bothers all of us who want more info.but in many cases, wisely so.

Also little is said about Allen having his phone which we know he did with his stock ticker looking, etc. if telling the truth. Of course five years after the fact trying to show his there could be an issue. It also shows though that apparently at that time they couldn't triangulate or do a tower dump for those just in the vicinity of the trails and not the general area at large OR they did, his was there but he admitted to being there so it made sense he was there. I doubt that though since no one except the Dulin seemed to have awareness RA was there at all.

Phone sh*t at the time I don't think is going to be a big factor in this case although recovery of texts and some things if from any (Libby's, Allen's, etc. MIGHT)) but if so, we sure haven't had a hint of it.

Finally they should also have dad's cell phone usage proof and searchers if they have RL's and sp pm shouldn't they, at the trails. And those of the eyewitnessse and so on if phones were with.

My guess is they couldn't do a tower dump or anything as it would show everyone in Delph or at the trails or on the road, etc. and because nothing comes back to an accurate location.

Now in LISK they have been able to do a LOT that way and it is a FAR older case/ but one is talking Mahnattand and NYC versus little old rural Delphi...

I don't understand all the high tech cell stuff and experts BUT I understand a bit. And I can tell you even tracking will in a rural area show your dog etc in a spot they aren't in, in an area there are a few towers more than Delphi but less than like NYC where you have things like major media and the stock exchange and of course were way ahead of us rural place on tech and so on...

Never really thought this out before or thought of what I've seen with such...
One of the three juveniles took photos on the trail that had timestamps so they could verify exactly when RA arrived from that because he admitted seeing them at Freedom bridge. Plus his car on the Hoosier Store video. Libby's photos and video will have timestamps too. He's toast IMO.
 
I watched part of a video yesterday that seemed to suggest that L had been communicating with AS (RA) for some time and that this profile was rented out. Has anyone else seen this suggestion? It would explain the length of KK's sentence IMO.
 
One of the three juveniles took photos on the trail that had timestamps so they could verify exactly when RA arrived from that because he admitted seeing them at Freedom bridge. Plus his car on the Hoosier Store video. Libby's photos and video will have timestamps too. He's toast IMO.
Yeah, that I actually recall and it is very beneficial as to time. And his own statements of seeing them and then the time stamp are a BAM. As is the video. And yes Libby definitely helped nail their killed with good thinking and timestamps as well.

He is toast. Burnt toast even...
 
I watched part of a video yesterday that seemed to suggest that L had been communicating with AS (RA) for some time and that this profile was rented out. Has anyone else seen this suggestion? It would explain the length of KK's sentence IMO.
I haven't heard it but it is certainly something I have thought of or of sharing and payment or quid pro quo for info and drop box access and so on when thinking of a "pedo ring". It doesn't necessarily have to mean a ring or working together so much as like people with dark desires that aren't legal and a non ratting code since all are in the same boat with the same twisted types of interests. The profile being rented isn't something I thought of so much as access shared but makes sense that it doesn't have to be shared as in friends to just have it rented and other similar types make use of it while you make some bucks. No time but definitely food for thought...
 
Her phone was working when she posted to Snapchat and took the video of BG. It ran for at least 43 seconds so her battery was ok then. The phone would have been pinging then right? So why, if phone locations are so accurate that they could pinpoint where RL was on his premises at 10:30 pm, why isn't it the same for the girls at 2.30pm in the afternoon? All phones use the one tower presumably. I remember the comment that her phone was "pinging all over town" so that was clearly bull right?
That came from Libby's grandfather. Now, why or how he was under that impression, I don't know but I'm sure it was for a good reason.
 
When defense first learned of his confessions, they stumbled and mumbled something about his mental state it must have been and it took them a bit for that. It was clear they had didn't know sh*t. At that point, even those who were on the fence about Allen and the few defense filings about him being in a prison, and maybe outraged about that (prisonvvs. jail) changed their tune BIG time in the public. He CONFESSED and now many thought of yes he definitely is guilty. THEN ... What did defense do...

Man if I live long enough and even when this case is long over and it is ten years from now and I have any memory I am going to do a timeline of what is sooo obvious...

And that's without friends how didn't pass the bar but were not an employee but just a friend who popped in who now it is known was more than that and things were given to for opinon and help and reaqlly was kind of an employee, etc.

And YES there was a DEATH over this LEAK.

There is sooooo much that it isn't being out there to see it, it is being out there imo to ignore it all.

I can defend Gull to this point but I am not even saying I am sure on her, but look at what the heck is going ON HERE. I don't know how some can't see it. You do. Thank God. They are NOT ethical, they HAVE lied. Westerman is their scapegoat the one in between and paid for it I'm sure. Psheesh I tis like B & R think they are the IN mafai. Have that padding in between, your hit man, your leaker, a suicide.... What was that guy REALLY worried about? That he had failed and there would be consequences... Culdn't give up the others so what do you do if you feel you are going to go down. That of course if it is suicide. I haven't went that far but looking at this all...

You see it because it is RIGHT THERE so clear. ALL of it with this defense. Thank God you do.

I'd better stop there. Called it on Westerman and the real relationship and chain long before they ever admitted just recently putting things to him for his opinion, etc. or we heard of recently. OBVIOUS. It was OBVIOUS. Why two bar passing established attorneys rely on one who never passed is a hard one to understand...
I don't know about the suicide but I believe he was in the military. Perhaps he was a JAG? It would be an honour thing I would think. I also think he commented on Reddit a lot.
 
My immediate thought is they are doing this because they think they will be off the case next week and want to make it harder for their successors. Now I'll read the article LOL.

Ok so it could start before 70 days. That would be good. Some time before mid May then.

I think Gull dismissed the Frank's motion. So is that the last we will see of it?
 
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