LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think he said pretrial conference in January with trial starting in Mar. There is handout info going up on Carroll County FB page. Tip line is still open so they are still up for info to be submitted. Everything is sealed regarding the arrest but he confirmed they had probable cause and that he was presumed innocent. It is clear they do not want anything to foul up the case.
They also do not want to give the slightest opening for a defense attorney to create "reasonable doubt" in a jury's mind.
 
but a lot of the reasons being stated here as reasons why he would do this are directly related to a ss# is why I had to mention it and would have no bearing on the outcome of him changing his name.
Yeah but with identity theft they do it to take the SSN which he may have done if that was the case. I don't think anyone was saying it would release him from legal obligations.

He could use a another identity and SSN to take out a loan for instance though and use that money to pay off a judgment in his other name.

Personally I think it more likely to be an online persona OR a name he hid under or used in an arrest or something. From what I hear the man has a clean criminal record as far as people have found so far...

Whatever the case yeah if he killed while living under one name or another he himself is still guilty. If he committed fraud under one name or another same thing. Of course it doesn't release him from his legal obligations, I don't disagree.

And yeah he may well have used his own SSN and it would track back to him but you wouldn't do that with the wrong name on a loan for instance because it wouldn't work.

So the list of reasons stated, yeah, some would require that he steal a name and SSN/identity.

People were saying that the Craigh name was found online and the person answered and said he knew nothing of it and wasn't RA... Strange. I can't recall if they were talking FB or a telephone number or what, I think FB... It wouldn't have been RA that answered them since he would have been in jail at the time... But allegedly they found a matching name even with the unusual spelling of Craigh.
 
I woke up at about 5 minutes after 9 here which is 10 in IN so by the time I got it on it was more or less ending and then I realized I missed little and it wasn't very long.

The only things I would add here is that he is held without bond. People took that 20 million bond thing and ran with it this weekend as if fact and it wasn't even verified. Anyhow, it is no bond.

Also the most interesting part imo was when he was asked about Kline. He didn't deny it relating at all, in fact in a way he seemed to confirm it. The prosecutor I mean. It was a short time after that the officer who ended it stepped in to do so.

Of course no way to know for sure but it solidifies even more so that somehow Kline ties to this or info he gave does. It's my leading theory even though RA's residence location and job could also have put him in position to do this or encounter or know Libby and Abby... I think there is a ring here or a group of creepy men interested in minor girls... That is alien to what I think in almost all cases but in this one as much was said during the Kline part... We know others accessed this drop box for one.. And a ring was referred to.

Now I don't know if sealing it is to try to take down the whole ring on other unrelated charges (not to do with Libby and Abby) or simply to protect the info they have on RA and what they talked about with Kline and what he provided OR to just find a possible accomplice in these murders.

Kline was dealing and they took Kline out of jail which is a rare thing and he was at the river they were searching. Next thing you know here comes this arrest and talk of digging in RA's yard recently.

Anyhow, I hope there is real reason for sealing. In some cases I've seen there wasn't but they did so anyhow, wrongly imo. In Morphew I thought it entirely wrong with no reason but the judge did it anyway and bought them time and protected the kids like in no other case I've ever seen. In Frazee they sealed docs for some time and it seemed to be to protect the fact there was an informant, the lover, Krystal Kenney and it also bought time. Those are both Colorado though and Colorado seems to seal a lot against the normal ways of public records.

I think there is an informant here as at least PART of the evidence on Allen and it is Kline. That doesn't mean they weren't already looking at him and just needed more, hard to say. And if they found evidence in the river or in the yard he pointed them to then he was involved. Maybe not in the murder but he had knowledge and contact with Allen.

Now on the off chance I and others are entirely wrong about this and there is no one else and Allen simply encountered the girls, then they sealed the case wrongly imo just as Colorado does.

The Klines also took off to do something in Vegas at one point. And if there is a group using the drop box and fake account, then it is feasible some members of this underground pedo bunch are from out of state too. I truly wonder if there are or will be federal charges in all of this... Not in Abby and Libby's case of course but for the ring, etc. overall... Not sure how that all works... Does anyone think there could be other arrests in other towns or states we don't know of? We would have no way of knowing especially if they were also sealed. Kline may have flipped on a number of members...
 
I understood him to say the preliminary is in January and the trial is set for March. I seriously doubt we will see that once a defense attorney is involved and motions and other things start to come.

So far doesn't look like he is going to change to a guilty plea any time soon.

Maybe his wife and kids will pressure him to do so. Or maybe like in some cases they will proclaim his innocence. Hard to say.

I've heard kids plural and then just heard of the one. Some think he is a stepfather as well. I don't want to involve family talking more of it than that on here but just unclear on that part as to how many, ages, etc. Only one I am sure of is a daughter. Adult daughter.
 
I hope he is MISERABLE. And knows how disgusting people find him. Grown men who attack little girls. He should be ashamed and mortified but I'm sure all his type thinks about is the loss of his freedom and by the looks of him losing his food and beer indulgences.
 
First thing to check was whether he was off work on that day or not. While googling today there is also a court action against Tobe Leazenby. Anybody else see this? I can find and post something but it is related to the post of Sheriff I believe, rather than this case specifically.

He also gave a PC today.



Libby's grandparents gave an interview too.



I haven't watched either of them yet.
 
Last edited:
First thing to check was whether he was off work on that day or not. While googling today there is also a court action against Tobe Leazenby. Anybody else see this? I can find and post something but it is related to the post of Sheriff I believe, rather than this case specifically.

He also gave a PC today.



Libby's grandparents gave an interview too.



I haven't watched either of them yet.

I saw something in a chat when or just after hearing of the arrest where someone said something about a lawsuit against the county or sheriff or some such. The person came across like a troll saying uncanny the timing of this arrest happens when the sheriff or whoever is in trouble as if the whole arrest was to look good or cover for the bad things going on there with the sheriff or something. They didn't say enough and I know nothing of it so unsure but it would seem like what they said was referring to this.

I haven't read your links yet or watched. Be interested to hear what anyone finds out or knows though.
 
First thing to check was whether he was off work on that day or not. While googling today there is also a court action against Tobe Leazenby. Anybody else see this? I can find and post something but it is related to the post of Sheriff I believe, rather than this case specifically.

He also gave a PC today.



Libby's grandparents gave an interview too.



I haven't watched either of them yet.Gr

The one with the grandparents offered far more than the press conference. Not anything earth shattering but some nuggets that I do think LE could have given us. Grandpa did not know the man personally. He did supposedly wait on a family member with pictures or flyers and CVS provided them for free he said. They think they have the right man but it sounds like there may certainly be others. They still want info unearthed and provided if anyone has any or finds any.

Not an easy time and I think grandma particularly seems stressed. I can only think of our case and that sense of relief does turn to new worries and having to refocus and they have lived for many years with being in one stage of this. I am sure too they have had nothing but a busy week with not only reporters and people trying to find things out but probably their own family and friends all while trying to process it all and take it in.

Both did hear one reporter's question wrong and I think take a bit of offense but entirely understandable and you can hear the reporter at the end trying to explain.

She didn't ask if they are hopeful, she asked I think what gives you hope or makes you hopeful?

He was a bit short with it and then the grandma sought out who asked the question.

Clearly they have been through a wringer this week and an emotional one.

AND the grandpa's remarks on whether anyone knew in the community what this guy did or about this guy were I think the MOST interesting thing... I almost have the feeling he thinks so from the remarks he made. Does he mean the wife? Did she maybe alibi him? Or someone else...?

I assume if grandpa didn't know him personally that he means neither of them did. That eliminates any thought he was some family friend of any kind or acquaintance. It doesn't mean either Libby or Abby may not have known more of him or his family but it would seem to mean not so much that the family knew them or there was any connection in that regard.

This offered more than the press conference. I don't really see why the PC couldn't have offered some things like basic background that wouldn't affect the investigation. But it is what it is.

I do have one thought of people in this ring or that may have known being someone else in Delphi maybe they do know and perhaps that is what seems maybe like what I felt was veiled or held in anger. Maybe it isn't about the wife or a family member or friend of the perp so much as someone else being looked at maybe. Total speculation on my part. Maybe someone they felt should have told them or they did know. I could be wrong though. He may have seemed a bit more angered with those questions just due to the sheer stress they have been under. Just a feeling that segment gives me and some thoughts.
 
Do you have a link for the similarities? Or can you break it down?
I don't know the case as well as this one but can help with just some basics. She can probably give you far more or others. Biggest thing of course is two friends, two girls again. Rare enough. A bit younger I think than Abby and Libby though. These two out for a hike. Those two out on bikes and riding around. Neighboring states Iowa and Indiana. I think the girls had been seen out and about and in town and then headed out some.

I can't recall exactly and ones who know it better may correct me so this next part I may have some wrong. I think they didn't show up home for lunch I think. And I think at first the bikes were found but not the girls. And then the girls were found some weeks or months or something later in a different location.

Both cases no suspect named or caught as time goes on. (Until now with Delphi)

Both out of school and out and about with a friend. I think the IA girls may have been cousins if I recall.

People who are convinced have I am sure tons more similarities but the biggest is a double murder of two young minor girls.

I have often wondered.

And I have often wondered with Abby and Libby if the perp didn't mean to abduct them but it got away from him, they fought back, the time wasn't there to do so, dad or someone showed up and they knew it... There wasn't a huge window of time before Libby's dad was to be picking them up...

A double young girl murder in a state and area not that far away really. If one was California and one Indiana I'm not so sure people would connect it necessarily but this one in a neighboring state I think too quite possible...
 
I came across this the other day. I haven't finished it yet haven't had time but it is one of the most interesting ones I have seen in a long time. It isn't about this arrest but does regard this case and a lot of things about the online reporting and LE and things that are really interesting. It is the people who broke the Kline thing and more about them and the "kid" they are doing it with doesn't even consider himself a crime person nor does he necessarily want a channel. He simply found he was good at finding things on the internet and his first thing was finding some songs of Mariah Carey. I find him interesting lol. Give it the first 15 minutes and I think you will be drawn in and along. That's what is happening to me. I had to stop before finishing but very much want to watch the rest and hope to tonight. I highly recommend. They talk a lot about Delphi and LE and more.

 
After he did a thing or two people were begging him to look into other cases and he did a deep dive into Missy Bevers too. He kind of laments that he hasn't had a life doing all this that people asked him to. :D
 
This "kid" though does have videos on the murder arrest. That is how I came across the above one next. I heard of him on Duty Ron when watching one about the arrest. And he has a live tonight about this case. I've never watched him live or know much about him just know he was recommended. Here is that link.



P.S. In the other one above, he found he couldn't solve these cases lol and now he knows how we all feel trying to figure them out. :) Of course we never know what investigators know.
 
I don't know the case as well as this one but can help with just some basics. She can probably give you far more or others. Biggest thing of course is two friends, two girls again. Rare enough. A bit younger I think than Abby and Libby though. These two out for a hike. Those two out on bikes and riding around. Neighboring states Iowa and Indiana. I think the girls had been seen out and about and in town and then headed out some.

I can't recall exactly and ones who know it better may correct me so this next part I may have some wrong. I think they didn't show up home for lunch I think. And I think at first the bikes were found but not the girls. And then the girls were found some weeks or months or something later in a different location.

Both cases no suspect named or caught as time goes on. (Until now with Delphi)

Both out of school and out and about with a friend. I think the IA girls may have been cousins if I recall.

People who are convinced have I am sure tons more similarities but the biggest is a double murder of two young minor girls.

I have often wondered.

And I have often wondered with Abby and Libby if the perp didn't mean to abduct them but it got away from him, they fought back, the time wasn't there to do so, dad or someone showed up and they knew it... There wasn't a huge window of time before Libby's dad was to be picking them up...

A double young girl murder in a state and area not that far away really. If one was California and one Indiana I'm not so sure people would connect it necessarily but this one in a neighboring state I think too quite possible...
Looking at pictures of the 4 girls. the physical resemblances are stunning. The dates of the crimes. Above posts mentioned a few more of the similarities. Iowa is about a 1 day drive from Indiana (7-9 hours) depending on where in Iowa. Will post other similarities later. I know I am not the only one who thinks it is SK or SKs.



1667301237830.png1667301298123.png
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,338
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom