LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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The 40 pager gives JG many many opportunities to bow out due to "the appearance of bias" - rather than actual bias. JF can pick one. (or not.)

Judges that recuse are under no obligation to defend themselves as to "the appearance of bias". That's a common, typical and easy graceful out for any judge. No explanations required.

JMHO
Nice of them to give her some outs but I think she will let it go to the Supreme Court again. I may be wrong though, so let's wait and see.
 
Sorry.
I'm commenting on the Lance R. Bloom letter to the Court that was linked in your post I was responding to.
i.e.
I read it. Those are my comments on it. I believe it's parody and a waste of the Court's time and inappropriate and ... in spite of all of that ... I laughed out loud b/c Lance is Bloomin' hilarious. Funny, but so wrong. JMHO
Oh Ok thanks. Yes - I didn't know if it was taking the p or not. I guess they have to take everything seriously. A bit like that lawyer in the Daybell case that put in a motion late on a Friday night and got a fine for his trouble when he did appear with his own useless lawyer LOL.

ETA there were two letters in my post. I thought the other one was a bit creepy.
 
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Just pretending to be useless then while gathering appeal grounds as their strategy LOL.
not exactly my take, but ... :giggle:

All murder defense counsel - any case - are professionally obligated to be meticulous as to the appellate record of the case.

For this case, an Appellate counsel (Wieneke) took interest in RA's docket irregularities and the Court's removal of the D. IMO, Wieneke's remained on consult b/c of other potential appellate issues they discovered relative to this case (whilst prepping the 2 Original Actions).

To your D-related lawyer count above, I'd add Hennessy and Ausbrook (also Apellate) - that's a count of 8 attorneys.

JMHO
 
Nice of them to give her some outs but I think she will let it go to the Supreme Court again. I may be wrong though, so let's wait and see.
I don't mean to be a pest, but just to share my thinking a bit more:

IMO: A Judge has great power in their Court, but ... no Judge has a "right" to keep a case. And the ISC knows this.
The ISC appointed Special Judge Gull; they can replace her with good reason.
The reason could be as simple as high-profile RA coming to the ISC with seriously documented questions as to fairness, exparte incidents, and lack of transparency/candor of the Court in a complex case.

IMO - The quieter, the better for both JG and the ISC.
So... If I'm in JG's place, I'll take myself out the gracious way, rather than having ISC deal with it publicly, to my (public) embarrassment.
Good chance that tomorrow AM, JG could have a courtesy chat with the body that placed RA's case under her (ISC), and move along to less complicated venues.

That being said, I'm not in JG's place and JG might travel to a different drum or have different values/priorities than the risk/benefit analysis above presumes.

So as you've said, we'll wait and see.

JMHO - from general life experience. (Also, see (former judge) Diener.)
 
not exactly my take, but ... :giggle:

All murder defense counsel - any case - are professionally obligated to be meticulous as to the appellate record of the case.

For this case, an Appellate counsel (Wieneke) took interest in RA's docket irregularities and the Court's removal of the D. IMO, Wieneke's remained on consult b/c of other potential appellate issues they discovered relative to this case (whilst prepping the 2 Original Actions).

To your D-related lawyer count above, I'd add Hennessy and Ausbrook (also Apellate) - that's a count of 8 attorneys.

JMHO
Hennessey is not on the Delphi case is he? I thought he was R&B's lawyer for the contempt issue. Regarding Ausbrook, is that the Ausbrook that Fig is critiquing in the video I just posted? He sounds like he doesn't know what he is doing or saying. In the video, Fig says he stated that Gull was Fig's Aunt LOL.

BTW where are you getting the facts in your last two paras?
 
I don't mean to be a pest, but just to share my thinking a bit more:

IMO: A Judge has great power in their Court, but ... no Judge has a "right" to keep a case. And the ISC knows this.
The ISC appointed Special Judge Gull; they can replace her with good reason.
The reason could be as simple as high-profile RA coming to the ISC with seriously documented questions as to fairness, exparte incidents, and lack of transparency/candor of the Court in a complex case.

IMO - The quieter, the better for both JG and the ISC.
So... If I'm in JG's place, I'll take myself out the gracious way, rather than having ISC deal with it publicly, to my (public) embarrassment.
Good chance that tomorrow AM, JG could have a courtesy chat with the body that placed RA's case under her (ISC), and move along to less complicated venues.

That being said, I'm not in JG's place and JG might travel to a different drum or have different values/priorities than the risk/benefit analysis above presumes.

So as you've said, we'll wait and see.

JMHO - from general life experience. (Also, see (former judge) Diener.)
No problem. That's what the thread is for. It depends also on whether there is any truth in those 24, now 40 pages. There is no doubt those D attorneys have tried her patience - they would try the patience of a saint. Just requesting the speedy trial then foregoing it for example, would be a real PIA for any judge, who now has a blank two weeks on her calendar twiddling her thumbs. Mind you, plenty of time now for her to address those 40 pages.
 
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No problem. That's what the thread is for. It depends also on whether there is any truth in those 24, now 40 pages. There is no doubt those D attorneys have tried her patience - they would try the patience of a saint. Just requesting the speedy trial then foregoing it for example, would be a real PIA for any judge, who now has a blank two weeks on her calendar twiddling her thumbs. Mind you, plenty of time now for her to address those 40 pages.

It would help if the judge held the prosecution accountable for giving the defense it's evidence in a timely manner.
 
It would help if the judge held the prosecution accountable for giving the defense it's evidence in a timely manner.
No time to catch up here tonight so only seeing this one but first of all it may help IF one knew what was true and not. First of all, there are claims they have been given stuff before and then lost it, can't find it, whatever, never read it and so on and request not only from the P but from the Clerk or whoever where its' been sent before. Second, anything NEW in months or years atter of course is on a different timeline. If P found something, got a test result back, interviewed or deposed someone more recently, that's NOT old. And SOME keep ignoring the defense is under the SAME rules, and what have they provided to the P as to their investigation...

B & R can't find a needle in a cup of rice. Or remember where they put it. Or if MW May have taken t and that's why they can't find it. Or if they never went through that batch of stuff to begin with.

I do know the clerk or court reporter etc has sent Hing's they have requested before that months later they re-request because I gather their organizational skills are nil, none, null and void.

If they've actually never provided anything they didn't want to and so on then how is it the O stuff was found in it all.... O stuff that imo needed no continued investigation as I'm sure the fact they didnt' land their in a spaceship was clear but it was in it. ONCE their client CONFESSED and they looked finally for something to try to overcome their LACK of doing a shitting thing. Imo.

I'd be shocked if the D has done their part at all in providing the opposite way as to discovery but then they'd have to do some work to have anything so that's kind of a head scratcher...

You know some here follow basically no other cases, some do some or a few, some do a lot. I used to do a lot but hard to keep up these days on the ones I started back when BUT I know you follow READ, a big one to you, and I KNOW you follow this one.

Well on that note, I find both defense alternate scenarios pretty ridiculous but this one is outlandish here and Read's well at least it isn't like anyone had to be teleported, etc. BUT the difference in the defense attorneys is VAST and whether doing their jobs. I don't KNOW it but see it I think. Read's attorneys despite trying delays and public opinion to be swayed which they did (look at you) and more and calling out corruption and more, STILL KNOW THEIR CASE, THEY KNOW I BELIEVE THE DISCOVERY and where they would have taken a delay in not going forward here gladly probably, I am guessing they are PREPARED. That has NEVER been the case with B & R in this case. It's night and day. You follow both and surely you MUST see that?

Read it not one of my first but you know I've been sucked in to a point but I can even see the difference in ATTORNEYS and their "alternate" theory. At least there's nothing about a bunch of Martians being at the McCabe's party having landed a spaceship or that Os were waiting outside for a white John the victim. Like the ABSOLUTE stupidity here.

I read posts on break and as Tresir said, B & R would try the patience of anyone.

And I will repeat my mantra. NOT EVEN RA who I believe to be the murderer of these two girls deserves those two attorneys. They are NOT doing their job other than trying to never HAVE to do it. You file file stuff yes to cause issues, delay, dismiss, whatever WHILE you are getting your **** together and getting up on EVERY SINGLE bit of discovery and ready to go IF YOU HAVE TO. More excuses, more b.s.. Maybe MW is on vacation or something.

SMDH.
 
I don't mean to be a pest, but just to share my thinking a bit more:

IMO: A Judge has great power in their Court, but ... no Judge has a "right" to keep a case. And the ISC knows this.
The ISC appointed Special Judge Gull; they can replace her with good reason.
The reason could be as simple as high-profile RA coming to the ISC with seriously documented questions as to fairness, exparte incidents, and lack of transparency/candor of the Court in a complex case.

IMO - The quieter, the better for both JG and the ISC.
So... If I'm in JG's place, I'll take myself out the gracious way, rather than having ISC deal with it publicly, to my (public) embarrassment.
Good chance that tomorrow AM, JG could have a courtesy chat with the body that placed RA's case under her (ISC), and move along to less complicated venues.

That being said, I'm not in JG's place and JG might travel to a different drum or have different values/priorities than the risk/benefit analysis above presumes.

So as you've said, we'll wait and see.

JMHO - from general life experience. (Also, see (former judge) Diener.)
Additional comment I have on this now I have thought more about it.

These guys have history for trying to get rid of her before just because she called them out on their faulty security of evidence, so it looks like sour grapes on their part and that they are being vindictive. We shall see. It will be good in one way to see ISC deal with it so the accusation of bias can be resolved. She wouldn't want that in her record IMO.

I don't understand what your point is about Diener. Did he recuse for a similar reason? Not sure we know do we?
 
For some reason D do not want to be at court next week for anything. I think they are hoping Gull is just going to quietly recuse herself. Personally, I don't think that is going to happen and I think D are being petty and vindictive now and have been mad as heck ever since ISC kept Gull in place.

We will see how it plays out, meantime justice is delayed for the families and RA has to spend at least another 5 months in Wabash.

All because of the D's ego. They requested the speedy trial then couldnt cut it and now they want a new judge?

Will be interesting to see who blinks first but it is a ridiculous and unnecessary situation, just because the D weren't ready for the speedy trial they themselves requested. I think they're playing games because they don't have a defence for their client. AJMO.
It is beyond ridiculous. They've never been prepared for anything. At any time.

They've had an issue from the first time she may be said no to them with anything--just like a tantrum throwing child. And so they keep throwing a fit for that very thing over and over and over and over and do absolutely nothing else. Next they will hold their breath til they turn blue hoping she gives in to what is wrong but they want.

Bluff called as always. I LOVED when speedy trial was requested as let's get this show on the road and I believe others to be ready but didn't believe for a moment they were or would be and lol and behold nope, they were not. And here we are with them not even wanting hearings held during a few of the day that were SUPPOSED to be trial because not ready for any of that either.

THEY stopped the speedy trial. Anyone surprised? I'm sure not. They wasted the court's time, the people's time and the juror's time. No the jury hadn't come in yet but were ON NOTICE that they might be needing to make arrangement in life and HAD to come in In just days. The prospective ones. And now an entire jury pool is GONE. These guys have no no conscience. And actually get boring after enough of it. Lol Gull should give them the open ended trial they want, heck put it out to six months. Jury would be so fed up and sick of them by then and long before and see through all and that they have nothing, do not do their job and are not prepared EVER.
 
Ok it has recently occurred to me that perhaps the D know that RA will be found guilty ( or is guilty based on his confessions ) and that is why they do not seem to be concentrating on defending his case at this trial. The reason I think this, is that they seem to be majorly overly concerned with appeal matters and already have Pro Bono appeal lawyers on the case.

This is also perhaps why they are wanting Gull off the case, because if she doesn't recuse, that will be another possible arrow in the quiver for any subsequent appeal battle.

So maybe they are not useless but have a strategy I just don't follow.
Okay, sorry, not going along with you on this one. What they are concerned with imo is desperately wanting and needing everything thrown out and not coming up at trial because it proves guilt and they have no defense and need all gone. I will agree they know their client is guilty. They say and have said countless times however how they believe in his innocence.

There are TIMES I think they are playing like the dumbest of the dumb but if so, not sure why they continue it as it is not working for them at all. Even If they would be laying appeals bases you STILL have to defend your client at trial, it does not erase that need. What they should be doing is trying to work a deal in this case if knowing he will be found guilty and convinced of his guilt, not that there should ever be one in this case imo. You also should still at all times be preparing for trial as your hand may be forced at some point to go to trial. Yeah the sickening system seems to grant every defense stunt or bozo defense atty more time but you never know when a judge may call that b.s. and say nope, trial is going to go AS PLANNED

If what we are seeing is their strategy, it isn't flying and hasn't yet imo. Their job also is still to represent and defend him BUT yeah to get a deal on all and appeal could be part of a strategy but if so, it would explain mom and wife's teariness.

So then on this note, B & R sat RA down AND mom and wife and sai they have too much? And you confessed? And we know you want him out, he wants out, etc., etc. but ALL we can do is try to keep delaying and try to keep arguing to keep stuff out and hope they get tired, die, retire, and then we hit them with a deal? And THEN in the meantime you are stuck in here for years on end but we will be laying an appeals basis? And a lot of bases for appeal? Is that what you are thinking while their client sits behind bars for all those years?

It would explain all the tears the last time although simply looked at his wife and mother had hoped it to be over and speedy trial was days away. JUST as the victims' families probably FELT.

Not sure I' reading you right tor agree. That's pretty deep for these two and they'd actually have to communicate with their client and his family and find time and actually go do it and then instead of giving them a sn*w job would have to give some blunt truths as to what can and can't be done and that he will be incarcerated for some years to come yet before ever going to trial...
 
IMO - The act of recusing upon request due to "the appearance of bias" is considered an honorable choice under the high standards imposed upon the bench. I tend to think JG will be practical here and recuse herself rather than be removed by the ISC.

JMHO
It would be a similar honorable choice and act by a defense who can't do their job, failed their client to do the same and step down or ask to and let someone competent represent him. I do not tend to think as you do with Gull they will ever do so. You never play it both ways do you?

I don't see any reason she should or any evidence of conflict of interest. If she does or is ever taken off, be careful what one wishes for on the other hand. There were no huge issues here at all other than when defense b.s. started and leaks.

It would be a very honorable thing for defense attorneys to ask to resign from the case and admit to not being the best representation for their client and care enough to ask the court get him adequate representation rather than they who have their own agenda and self interests at the RISK of their client. Unlike you say about Gull lol trying to make it so I guess, I don't see them doing so.
 
I'll wait for the response if she does not recuse. If she decides to recuse, then she would be appearing to admit bias, when I do not believe she is biased. She has been pretty patient with the Chuckle brothers.
She is not going to recuse in my opinion, I don't see a reason she should. And she has been patient with the Chuckles lol, more than anyone could be imo.

No offense to Olenna but she does and says such kinds of things on players all the time, as if they will read it and do as she predicts or suggests. Thinking Gull will honorably take the high road and do so. As of there is REASON to. Trying to make it a thing and filing forums I guess with such.

B & R should do all they can to get their client adequate representation and do the honorable thing and RIGHT thing imo. No?

Gull could recuse and save herself a lot of grief, not from what would be said then, but from having to handle another moment of the Chuckles (good one by the way) or Bozos. Let's jump to what would happen next... With the Bozos and another judge and the delays as all gets back up to speed while mama and wifey cry because RA is still behind bars AND where a new judge starts dealing with the same b.s.

If a slate is EVER going to be wiped, WIPE THEM ALL and start from scratch.

Some should be careful what they wish for... Imo.

Politics are here as well. Count on it.
 
The 40 pager gives JG many many opportunities to bow out due to "the appearance of bias" - rather than actual bias. JG can pick one. (or not.)

Judges that recuse are under no obligation to defend themselves as to "the appearance of bias". That's a common, typical and easy graceful out for any judge. No explanations required.

JMHO
Just look at all the speculation re Diener as just one example.
 
Okay, sorry, not going along with you on this one. What they are concerned with imo is desperately wanting and needing everything thrown out and not coming up at trial because it proves guilt and they have no defense and need all gone. I will agree they know their client is guilty. They say and have said countless times however how they believe in his innocence.

There are TIMES I think they are playing like the dumbest of the dumb but if so, not sure why they continue it as it is not working for them at all. Even If they would be laying appeals bases you STILL have to defend your client at trial, it does not erase that need. What they should be doing is trying to work a deal in this case if knowing he will be found guilty and convinced of his guilt, not that there should ever be one in this case imo. You also should still at all times be preparing for trial as your hand may be forced at some point to go to trial. Yeah the sickening system seems to grant every defense stunt or bozo defense atty more time but you never know when a judge may call that b.s. and say nope, trial is going to go AS PLANNED

If what we are seeing is their strategy, it isn't flying and hasn't yet imo. Their job also is still to represent and defend him BUT yeah to get a deal on all and appeal could be part of a strategy but if so, it would explain mom and wife's teariness.

So then on this note, B & R sat RA down AND mom and wife and sai they have too much? And you confessed? And we know you want him out, he wants out, etc., etc. but ALL we can do is try to keep delaying and try to keep arguing to keep stuff out and hope they get tired, die, retire, and then we hit them with a deal? And THEN in the meantime you are stuck in here for years on end but we will be laying an appeals basis? And a lot of bases for appeal? Is that what you are thinking while their client sits behind bars for all those years?

It would explain all the tears the last time although simply looked at his wife and mother had hoped it to be over and speedy trial was days away. JUST as the victims' families probably FELT.

Not sure I' reading you right tor agree. That's pretty deep for these two and they'd actually have to communicate with their client and his family and find time and actually go do it and then instead of giving them a sn*w job would have to give some blunt truths as to what can and can't be done and that he will be incarcerated for some years to come yet before ever going to trial...
They may have actually said to their client they are not seeing a defence for him, all they have is the O thing which is not going to fly with Gull. (Ha - that's a good pun). If they cannot get her to recuse or get ISC to replace her then they only have an appeal to consider. There is no defence strategy except the O so this is why they are making a big thing about bias. I have not seen bias or any appearance of bias.
 
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