LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I have some time on my hands so here I am.:)

What do you think the prosecution might offer as a plea deal?
I have been watching the Euro football quarter finals on TV and it is now pretty late here but just thought I would check some threads and saw your post.

Hope all had a good 4th of July?

I think they would possibly take the DP off the table maybe - if he pled guilty or insanity. I really hope he does. I mean he is almost there anyway because of his 30 plus confessions and letter to the warden and the evidence is pretty watertight IMO.
 
I have been watching the Euro football quarter finals on TV and it is now pretty late here but just thought I would check some threads and saw your post.

Hope all had a good 4th of July?

I think they would possibly take the DP off the table maybe - if he pled guilty or insanity. I really hope he does. I mean he is almost there anyway because of his 30 plus confessions and letter to the warden and the evidence is pretty watertight IMO.
Unless I missed something RA is not facing the DP and that is where there is no leverage that way. They have not sought the DP have they? Don't get me wrong, I could have it wrong and have forgotten but I don't know this case has ever been charged with the DP... I don't know that they've ever even gotten to the hearings that would require that decision to be made in how much time or after filing, however it goes, they only have so much time and it's never been charged has it? The DP I mean. So there's no leverage there. And again, I could be wrong but don't think so. Willing to be wrong, no prob.

Hey I meant to mop and I did and now got another wind and even vacced. Showered. Spaghetti sauce made. More. The days off are never enough but actually had a pretty laid back one today but despaired as I couldn't find anything on to watch when did take minutes here and there lol. Happy 4th and 5th lol.

You have been watching FOOTBALL? Well I hope you know the Packers rule and I don't care if it is Euro or U.S. All I have to say on that matter. Others would disagree but they are wrong. Take my word for it. ARe you talking soccer or our football kind of thing? Meaning I had chips/crisps with my sandwich the other night....
 
Unless I missed something RA is not facing the DP and that is where there is no leverage that way. They have not sought the DP have they? Don't get me wrong, I could have it wrong and have forgotten but I don't know this case has ever been charged with the DP... I don't know that they've ever even gotten to the hearings that would require that decision to be made in how much time or after filing, however it goes, they only have so much time and it's never been charged has it? The DP I mean. So there's no leverage there. And again, I could be wrong but don't think so. Willing to be wrong, no prob.

Hey I meant to mop and I did and now got another wind and even vacced. Showered. Spaghetti sauce made. More. The days off are never enough but actually had a pretty laid back one today but despaired as I couldn't find anything on to watch when did take minutes here and there lol. Happy 4th and 5th lol.

You have been watching FOOTBALL? Well I hope you know the Packers rule and I don't care if it is Euro or U.S. All I have to say on that matter. Others would disagree but they are wrong. Take my word for it. ARe you talking soccer or our football kind of thing? Meaning I had chips/crisps with my sandwich the other night....
I thought Indiana had the DP no? When did they lose the DP for him?

Soccer - England is in the quarter finals and we play tomorrow night against Switzerland. Tonight we watched Germany v Spain and Germany got beat. Then we watched Portugal v France and France won. The other quarter final tomorrow is Netherlands v Turkey. Semi finals will be mid week with Final next weekend. We are all going football mad ATM here in Europe.
 
I thought Indiana had the DP no? When did they lose the DP for him?

Soccer - England is in the quarter finals and we play tomorrow night against Switzerland. Tonight we watched Germany v Spain and Germany got beat. Then we watched Portugal v France and France won. The other quarter final tomorrow is Netherlands v Turkey. Semi finals will be mid week with Final next weekend. We are all going football mad ATM here in Europe.
Indiana has the death penalty, but the prosecution hasn't mentioned it, at least that I've heard.
 
I thought Indiana had the DP no? When did they lose the DP for him?

Soccer - England is in the quarter finals and we play tomorrow night against Switzerland. Tonight we watched Germany v Spain and Germany got beat. Then we watched Portugal v France and France won. The other quarter final tomorrow is Netherlands v Turkey. Semi finals will be mid week with Final next weekend. We are all going football mad ATM here in Europe.
I know it generally means soccer, up on a few things, but I also know our NFL has had a game or two over there in the last years so had to ask. I am rooting for you over all mentioned! Keep me informed lol.

IN has the DP but it's never been on the table in this one. He's never been facing the DP and maybe now you know that, it might change your mind on thinking there will be a deal? There's not much leverage here and not by the DP.

I know they only have so long in most states after charging to say if they are seeking it, I can't recall. 60 days maybe from a prelim or something like that or from charging? Someone can correct me I don't think I have that right but they have to decide in a period of time anyhow... And there's no chance of federal charges here as these murders occurred only in IN wherein what we were talking in LISK if he should be found to have murdered someone in one of the other states they had homes, his mother lived, etc. that would change that.

DP cases have a LOT of rules and I'm pretty sure if this was DP B & R would not be on the case as public defenders. As far as I know, they are not qualified for such. I could be wrong.

So anyhow there isn't a lot a deal can be struck with unless they want to give him a deal less than LWOP and I think the families and public would have issue with that, jmo though. Meaning a chance of getting out. Or at least not him given so many years, he'd be effectively too old to do another murder or unlikely to... I know I'm against anything less than LWOP and would think their families would be even more so unless just not wanting to go through it all any longer and would accept such but there's two families and it isn't up to them. It is up to the prosecution and IF a deal is struck a judge still has to go along with it for the deal to stick. Most do unless a crazy or suspicious deal (think of the likes of Epstein for instance in FL).
 
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I know it generally means soccer, up on a few things, but I also know our NFL has had a game or two over there in the last years so had to ask. I am rooting for you over all mentioned! Keep me informed lol.

IN has the DP but it's never been on the table in this one. He's never been facing the DP and maybe now you know that, it might change your mind on thinking there will be a deal? There's not much leverage here and not by the DP.

I know they only have so long in most states after charging to say if they are seeking it, I can't recall. 60 days maybe from a prelim or something like that or from charging? Someone can correct me I don't think I have that right but they have to decide in a period of time anyhow... And there's no chance of federal charges here as these murders occurred only in IN wherein what we were talking in LISK if he should be found to have murdered someone in one of the other states they had homes, his mother lived, etc. that would change that.

DP cases have a LOT of rules and I'm pretty sure if this was DP B & R would not be on the case as public defenders. As far as I know, they are not qualified for such. I could be wrong.

So anyhow there isn't a lot a deal can be struck with unless they want to give him a deal less than LWOP and I think the families and public would have issue with that, jmo though. Meaning a chance of getting out. Or at least not him given so many years, he'd be effectively too old to do another murder or unlikely to... I know I'm against anything less than LWOP and would think their families would be even more so unless just not wanting to go through it all any longer and would accept such but there's two families and it isn't up to them. It is up to the prosecution and IF a deal is struck a judge still has to go along with it for the deal to stick. Most do unless a crazy or suspicious deal (think of the likes of Epstein for instance in FL).
I wasn't aware of these rules about DP so didn't realise any of that. I thought that if a state had the DP it would automatically be on the table, especially for a double murder of children. So not a lot of leeway or motivation to do a deal is what you are saying even though he has admitted it more than 30 times. It doesn't make sense to me to even have a trial with all these confessions. Perhaps he will plead guilty in the end anyway hopefully, without a deal on the table.
 
I wasn't aware of these rules about DP so didn't realise any of that. I thought that if a state had the DP it would automatically be on the table, especially for a double murder of children. So not a lot of leeway or motivation to do a deal is what you are saying even though he has admitted it more than 30 times. It doesn't make sense to me to even have a trial with all these confessions. Perhaps he will plead guilty in the end anyway hopefully, without a deal on the table.
I understand. If you thought the DP was involved, yes, then there is some room and leverage to go for both sides from the DP to LWOP. It doesn't always happen though as the DP is rarely carried out or it takes so many years that a defendant doesn't have to worry much they will be executed any time soon if at all but some do make such a deal just to stay off death row and I suppose out of worry times will change and the execution will be carried out.

They have to try him if he doesn't plead guilty, no choice there, even if he did confess.

The DP is never just on the table, meaning prosecutors have to decide whether to seek it and announce it if they are. Even then, it has to fit certain criteria which I imagine differs in each state that has the DP, but certain aggravating factors, or capital murder and fit as said, certain criteria. I imagine this one would but they haven't sought it. It does make things harder for both sides and like I think I said, the defendant's attorneys then have to be death qualified attorneys or at least it was that way in ID. Prior wasn't but it did not apply as he was a private chosen attorney. And it makes it different to get a jury too who can give the DP to a defendant. There are probably other higher bars they need to reach and burdens too but I don't know them all. You also are guaranteeing there will be years and years of appeals and every type of appeal one can come up with under the sun.

I don't recall if it was talked of as to seeking it here or why not to but I'm not even positive they are at the point they'd have to announce it yet but they would have had to before that last scheduled trial and how close we were to it so pretty positive it will not be sought and is off the table.

I think you know my belief is he was trying to plead guilty and admit guilt and make a deal with all the confessions and writing the warden. After the fact I think B & R put a stop to it and him wanting that and tried to turn it around. That's my opinion and I question the ethics of that.

Do you know where it comes from that he asked the warden for a deal in a letter? I know it WAS rumor but I thought it had recently been confirmed as in prosecution mentioned it in a recent filing or some such but I COULD be wrong. I recall thinking though, okay, that rumor is now confirmed.... Again I could be wrong.

My thought/speculation, but with some basis, is that when he saw what the P had on him for evidence, he knew his wife and mom and family were going to hear all this at trial, and he called them panicked to confess and to avoid them hearing it at trial (wanting to plead guilty to avoid that). His wife, mom and attorneys don't want him to and he found that the women stayed behind him despite the knowledge he killed them (don't ask me WHY) and now he's done with attempting to confess and plead guilty. I also think B & R knew they failed him and hadn't done their job and they couldn't have him doing so. HE77 they hadn't even seen him or sat down with him to speak of or went over first what was in the evidence before letting him just find such out on his own. And then with no support from them, he panicked and confessed. For me, there's serious indications that he did this due to that and that the evidence panicked him.

I guess it's possible B & R think if they pressure the P hard enough with all the b.s. of Odinism, claims against them re discovery, claims against the judge of bias and all the other sh*t they've done, they might force some kind of deal but clearly it has not even phased the P and they never respond in kind, giving out evidence, they stay professional and to the point. Although it is an easy bet they are sick to death of the antics and extra work it causes.

So back to the point, no they didn't seek the DP here. I do think RA deserves the DP and death row but the decision is often not gone for to seek the DP. It is a lot harder and again guarantees a ton more appeals and expense and bars to reach. It isn't uncommon to decide not to seek it even in a case where it can be sought. It also can come down to just politics...In some cases maybe the victim's families don't want it is another possibility, some prefer they languish in prison the rest of their lives and have to live like that and go through some HE77 of their own.

I honestly don't recall what was said about it in this case or if anything ever was as to whether they'd seek it, whether it was considered and so on.

If you recall, being faced with the DP didn't force Chad Daybell to deal, he still went to trial and was sentenced to death. But then why would he, he's eternal lol. Per him anyhow.
 
Well the hearings on most of the motions are at the end of this month aren't they? First will they go off without defense begging for another delay? If they do, I expect fireworks and unpreparedness and sidetracking but hopefully I'm wrong. I think it will be a good test and bar as to a feeling of whether the trial will go off even in October. I'm not holding my breath because depending on the decisions I suspect more filings and desperate attempts will come.

And why do I feel like right now when they have had and still have some time, they are working on nothing. Hopefully I'm wrong about that but it has seemed that way throughout.

Of course, it is jmo and just the way I've seen it and still do with no reason to see it otherwise yet.

The ups and downs and delays the families of the girls have had I guarantee are getting very old. It takes a serious toll on all and every member.

As to RA's family, well their path has only just begun, they didn't live this the five years prior and he's alive.

I try to imagine the D attorneys even prepping like the wife for trial. They have slotted that time in right? They have a lot of work ahead of them and little time and they've been behind the eight ball from the start or claim to be. Or have many a time. They did read through picking out O stuff as we know lol.

Just thoughts. Silence should mean they're hard at work but I wouldn't count on it. The silence earlier meant no such thing. Working on disruptions and leaks maybe, but never on the case itself if indeed they have to try it. And even then that stuff was last minute desperation.

Haven't been in here much with the quiet until recently and just thoughts. I know they are not shared by all. It is one case that such isn't. There's a few that get like that and this is one of them.

If they're unprepared for the hearings at month's end, then imo that is just more proof they don't do their job. I have said I feel sorry for RA being stuck with them but then he pretty much decided that didn't he...

Maybe though they will surprise us. I wouldn't count on it. But who knows...

The families go through realizing once a charge is made, it becomes the defendant's show and never is it about the victims, it is ALL about the defendant. It's a very hard thing to go through. And very unfair as they go around touting this or that and you stay silent. Not that every defendant is necessarily guilty but the way the victims go by the wayside and the quiet that has to come from one side has to change. OR the ridiculous defense stuff has to.

I disagree with prosecutions keeping things tight to the vest and here's one reason--the defense knows what they have already. So this isn't some Perry Mason thing, they've changed it all to where both sides know what is going to be argued, what the evidence is, the position that will be taken, etc.

As far as publicity tainting jury pools, get real. Either the system and a juror can be trusted to look at things as they are supposed to or they can't. And in most cases it is the defense who yells about pretrial publicity and then gets out there and does exactly that.

So I'm going a bit sideways now and will stop. I guess I'm just saying it's all gone too far one way and they'd better start changing some things before it gets even worse and get with the times. But since when do politicians or lawmakers get anything done before things get too far down a slippery slope.

Yep, Starting to go sideways so with that, I'll leave it.

Back at it later today. Not sure if we will be busy or not being the weekend of the 4th. It could be surprisingly so actually if I recall last year. Just starting to transition and so a long post I guess before another week of few posts. And the last of some down time and talking crime and these cases. Not that there was much to go on with the holiday anyhow. Courts stop, news stops, YTes stop, etc. Pretty dull actually. Quiet everywhere for the most part. So wasn't really behind on catching up this time here or anywhere.

Hope all continue to have a nice holiday weekend. I'm on a 2 to 9, short hours but remains to be seen if they keep us after or not depending on how busy. So I've got a few hours yet but need to start transitioning and guess that's what I'm doing here with this post.

And again, getting off track and going a bit sideways. Have a great day everyone!
 
Indiana has the death penalty, but the prosecution hasn't mentioned it, at least that I've heard.
I found this article from Nov '22 and it is all I have found about it so far. If anyone has any info or links about whether it was previously decided perhaps they can post it. According to this article, and the Fort Wayne attorney/former deputy prosecutor/police detective Robert Scremin, it should have been decided well before now, whether it was a DP case or not.

 
Wow, thanks RoundPeg.

Couple of things to ponder here:

1) Does a kidnapping charge allow the jury to find that lesser charge without a doubt, but to the murder part ... the jury could find doubt?

2) - more obvious to me - this filing at this time, before SCOIN rules - as a STRATEGY ... seeks to firm up 9 months for the P to prepare, regardless of a potential SCOIN decision to rewind, reinstate the Old D and proceed to speedy trial.

3) - I think this puts Death Penalty on the table. Before it was sort of murky and as I recall - that part was confusing. Something new to plea about?

Looks to me like #2 - the P is also moving for more time for trial in the event the Old D is reinstalled. Just my immediate take and JMHO.

JMHO and a super quick read.
Just found this post from Jan '24while searching the thread. There is nothing else regarding whether DP is still on the table or not. Maybe @Olenna or others can comment/confirm.
 
I found this article from Nov '22 and it is all I have found about it so far. If anyone has any info or links about whether it was previously decided perhaps they can post it. According to this article, and the Fort Wayne attorney/former deputy prosecutor/police detective Robert Scremin, it should have been decided well before now, whether it was a DP case or not.

If I caught it all, it really doesn't say much. I do think we can be sure this is not going to be a DP case by now.

Interesting he said we'd have all these answers by a pretrial hearing, etc. The article is from 2022. I think confusion comes from we haven't had the things one normally learns more from. Things were sealed even by Diener and after.

And then the case has not run the normal process ever since.

I honestly don't think the DP was ever talked of much or put out there.

What is a bit odd is that in most cases/states by a certain time window they have to announce whether they are seeking the DP or not. Maybe if they are not seeking it they they don't have to get out there and state it but most do. I don't recall that in this at all. I don't think they've ever talked of it or put it on the table.

Maybe it has to do with the statute it is charged under this article of yours referred to, that the murders were committed in the commission of another crime. Maybe that's not one that fits the DP parameters or some such. I have no idea honestly.

I will say it's rare we see the DP gone after though. Who before Daybell do you recall it with that we've followed? I mean 20 some states still have the DP I think but it isn't used by a long shot in every case that fits or even most. It makes for a big deal for years to come when it is used. The whole appeals process and cost to the state just to begin with.
 
This may be a reason too. Article from 2023.

8 men have no execution dates set in IN DESPITE they've exhausted every last appeal. Why? At that point it is time to set a date and execute. No teeth apparently. I don't have time to look into it deeply but perhaps @RoundPeg knows. I don't live in IN but someone who does may know more about it.

I was looking for the last person charged in IN with the DP when I came across this.

 
Wish TV article. This is where the 30 confessions come from.

"According to the prosecution, he’s confessed to 16 guards, eight inmates, a warden, Indiana State Police officers, and mental health personnel."

Therefore this is 16 plus 8 plus 1 plus 2 minimum plus 2 minimum plus wife and mum = 31 at the very least.

@GrandmaBear - Here's the link that mentions the letter to the warden you asked about.

Bumping my post that included the link about the confessions including to the warden. The link stated this info came from court filings.

Sorry that post didn't include the link so here it is again below. I dont believe any of this has been resolved. P want all the confessions included in the evidence, whereas D clearly do not. I have seen nothing about the DP being off the table. Months were wasted on the O filing last year and nothing has been resolved about this confessions issue either. The D have just been wasting time fighting the judge IMO and have had to delay the whole trial because they are not ready. The DP issue is probably in the same category as the confessions issue IMO.

 
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@GrandmaBear - Here's the link that mentions the letter to the warden you asked about.

Bumping my post that included the link about the confessions including to the warden. The link stated this info came from court filings.

Sorry that post didn't include the link so here it is again below. I dont believe any of this has been resolved. P want all the confessions included in the evidence, whereas D clearly do not. I have seen nothing about the DP being off the table. Months were wasted on the O filing last year and nothing has been resolved about this confessions issue either. The D have just been wasting time fighting the judge IMO and have had to delay the whole trial because they are not ready. The DP issue is probably in the same category as the confessions issue IMO.

Thank you for this. I wouldn't have a hope of going back to find such.

I don't see the part about him having asked for a deal from the warden.

@RoundPeg asked and I could swear I saw it mentioned in a prosecution filing. But maybe it just confirmed he had written to the warden, I could be wrong,.

Yes, a letter to the warden and a confession to the warden is confirmed in this though. it seems logical you'd confess and ask for a deal for doing so but I would like to confirm that it has been stated in a filing, just not sure I'm correct.

You don't have to go look for me or take the time, but thought you might recall. I'm not even sure I'm correct lol.

I entirely agree with all you said about the DP and that the defense has spent the entire case taking it AWOL and done nothing but waste time on anything but working on their client's case to cover the fact they prepared not at all and reviewed basically nothing.

The DP could be part of that.

I know the decision is to come like 60 days after a prelim or some such, I just can't recall how many days and after or before what but at least in some states, there's a window of time they can file it by and if that passes, they can't... Someone else can probably correct me on this and get it not only straight, but straight for IN rules.

Olenna's not been in for awhile but maybe she would know. @Olenna

I don't know but don't see any hint we will see the DP here. We were almost on top of trial before the last delay and they'd certainly have had to file such intent by then imo.

It would be one way though to get B & R off the case lol. I don't think they are death qualified are they? Although I don't necessarily want them off at this point. RA made his choice and so did the two attorneys. Let them end up where they do and finish it out. Plus I want to see if one day they actually decide to do their job. I'm not holding my breath.

Jmo, not shared by all I know. I think you and I see them the same however.
 
I'm looking for something regarding the death penalty but 2 things.

I think we all recall additional charges being filed by the prosecution not that long ago. That opens up the door for the death penalty.

Death penalty decided cases are automatically escalated to the Supreme Court for appeal. I wonder if the prosecution or Judge Gull wants that to happen.
 
This may be where we saw the warden being asked about a plea deal.


Hmm well we know some of these to be true by now, not many but like that there were confessions and a letter/letters to the warden. I could still swear it was now confirmed he requested a plea deal to the warden but maybe I am just thinking of the fact the confession was confirmed to the warden in letters (per the WISH article, etc.)

Interesting they follow exactly what I've always thought, that because B & R never saw their client, he was left without help or support with knowing what was going on, how the evidence could be disputed and left alone to see it all and with no counsel to turn to he confessed. They like to blame everyone else but it was them that caused such. What hypocrites. I don't even follow Reddit but my thoughts have always been the same.

There's much on here I believe will be found to be true, maybe not all.

When was this last updated/dated? I don't see a date. And what does the bolding mean? Is that confirmed stuff maybe or just new stuff added to an old rumor list when it was updated so they bolded to point out what was new?

There's a lot about plea deals in it to the warden allegedly, the D approaching the P for a deal, etc.

They meant counsel rather than console when it says he was writing the warden for counsel. I think that's significant too if true because why does he have to do that when he has counsel? Oh because he can't reach them and haven't bothered to come and see him. I mean to me all this has been obvious for a long time. It's why I say and have always said for his own sake they should have been removed BUT he chose them then and Lord knows what song and dance they did for him to ensure he didn't "out" them imo. I wouldn't doubt it is in the letters to the warden that he was getting no visits or answers or advice from counsel or were they dated before these two were appointed? I don't think so.
 
So these are probably Reddit rumors. So no proof he asked the warden for a plea deal, then.
Well it would seem to me if he confessed to the warden which we do know as it is in the WISH article and comes from the P's filing I believe, it is a bit of a no brainer you'd then ask for a plea deal. Would you confess and just want LWOP or the DP or did he offer the confession offering to exchange it for some leniency or a plea deal.

I admit at this point there's no proof he actually asked the warden for a plea but I still think I saw it in a P filing. A lot of those don't seem to make it here and I'm not saying anyone should have to do the work of bringing them or even telling anyone when filed but am saying maybe not all saw it or read it. I see them all on Tom's shows.

But for the moment, I'm fine with leaving it unconfirmed although I believe it very likely in conjunction with the fact he is known to have confessed in a letter to the warden.
 
I'm looking for something regarding the death penalty but 2 things.

I think we all recall additional charges being filed by the prosecution not that long ago. That opens up the door for the death penalty.

Death penalty decided cases are automatically escalated to the Supreme Court for appeal. I wonder if the prosecution or Judge Gull wants that to happen.
Are those charges still on there? I know you have access to your own State's info at least what is public on it and the charges currently should show. I thought they might have been taken back off or am I thinking of some other case. Unsure. You mean the kidnappings right?

If they are still there and they likely are, I am unsure on their removal and am likely wrong, why is it that opens up the door to the DP? The murder charges on their own weren't enough? I thought that possible as certain factors likely have to be met but I don't know what those are in IN. However, as heinous as this was, I'd think they would be able to charge the DP but it sounds like the murder statute they charged under perhaps not, unsure.

So are you thinking or just putting out there without having an opinion that they added the charges in an intent to go for the DP? Or to worry RA or the D that they would?

That's kind of opposed to your other statement that since appeals escalate to the SC the P wouldn't want or intend the DP because then the P and Gull may not want that to happen as it would go to the SC.

So which is it? P added the charges as the intend on the DP or wouldn't want such because of SC involvement? Since they differ, I'm guessing you don't have an opinion on either but are merely pointing out the facts.

Also, after a murder conviction I'd think most appeals would go to your state SC, the ISC. I'm talking non DP ones. They could of course remand to the trial court depending on the issue. As we saw in Murdaugh, the alleged jury tampering was brought back to the trial court and that likely had to be done first if that's what you mean.

And I think anything relevant to the trial court could be remanded back regardless of DP or not. However, not claiming to be sure.

"We" had a state appeal based on the baby. The local court dismissed the claim. It was appealed by "our" sides lawyers to our State Supreme Court and they found the judge wrong to do so I and it was ordered it go back and be tried or at least on the basis he had dismissed it, he was in error and that wouldn't cut it. They can always be sent back but now if you are talking the US SC then I'm not as up on that but say new evidence had the US SC deciding a new trial was in order, would that not go back to the county for ANOTHER trial? I'm pretty sure it does.

So I'm not sure what you are talking here or if it makes a ton of difference. Even if convicted to life with no DP on the table they are going to be appealing to your ISC of course. No?

So in both cases they go "up" although I guess they could appeal her sentence but once convicted and sentenced that is pretty much it as far as almost any kind of appeal to the trial court any longer, unless jury tampering or something else is found, etc.
 

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