LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Hmm well we know some of these to be true by now, not many but like that there were confessions and a letter/letters to the warden. I could still swear it was now confirmed he requested a plea deal to the warden but maybe I am just thinking of the fact the confession was confirmed to the warden in letters (per the WISH article, etc.)

Interesting they follow exactly what I've always thought, that because B & R never saw their client, he was left without help or support with knowing what was going on, how the evidence could be disputed and left alone to see it all and with no counsel to turn to he confessed. They like to blame everyone else but it was them that caused such. What hypocrites. I don't even follow Reddit but my thoughts have always been the same.

There's much on here I believe will be found to be true, maybe not all.

When was this last updated/dated? I don't see a date. And what does the bolding mean? Is that confirmed stuff maybe or just new stuff added to an old rumor list when it was updated so they bolded to point out what was new?

There's a lot about plea deals in it to the warden allegedly, the D approaching the P for a deal, etc.

They meant counsel rather than console when it says he was writing the warden for counsel. I think that's significant too if true because why does he have to do that when he has counsel? Oh because he can't reach them and haven't bothered to come and see him. I mean to me all this has been obvious for a long time. It's why I say and have always said for his own sake they should have been removed BUT he chose them then and Lord knows what song and dance they did for him to ensure he didn't "out" them imo. I wouldn't doubt it is in the letters to the warden that he was getting no visits or answers or advice from counsel or were they dated before these two were appointed? I don't think so.
According to the comments it was 7 months ago so Jan '24. I don't know what the bolding is but appears to be subject headings. The info does agree with what we thought and the facts we know. Eg he ate the discovery and his poop and confessed to his wife and mother five times. The other confessions and writing to the warden happened then too all because his D hadn't visited IMO.
 
This June '23 article refers to some prosecution documents that confirm the meltdown RA had and the P is still trying to get the MH records I believe. Have they been posted on here? If not, could someone with access to the MyCase site pull them down? I cannot access it from the UK. Unless anyone remembers these being posted on here already. I haven't been able to find them so far.

 
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Well that's all I found but there should be a court filing too but it may be sealed. I do remember seeing it but don't know where.
I don't tend to comment on things I don't think as fact, unless of course give an opinion and I'm "fairly" certain I saw it as well and more than likely listening to Tom and may have even commented on it here but it isn't important enough to go look for as with his I'd have to go through how many of his last videos as I have no clue when although in the last number of filings pretty certain. Again it doesn't really matter and it does make sense in confessing he'd also beg for a deal, the two seem to go hand in hand to me.
 
According to the comments it was 7 months ago so Jan '24. I don't know what the bolding is but appears to be subject headings. The info does agree with what we thought and the facts we know. Eg he ate the discovery and his poop and confessed to his wife and mother five times. The other confessions and writing to the warden happened then too all because his D hadn't visited IMO.
True that the letters to the warden were before the D bothered even meeting with their client and so it all fits timewise.
 
This June '23 article refers to some prosecution documents that confirm the meltdown RA had and the P is still trying to get the MH records I believe. Have they been posted on here? If not, could someone with access to the MyCase site pull them down? I cannot access it from the UK. Unless anyone remembers these being posted on here already. I haven't been able to find them so far.

I don't think his mental health records have been released.
 
Are those charges still on there? I know you have access to your own State's info at least what is public on it and the charges currently should show. I thought they might have been taken back off or am I thinking of some other case. Unsure. You mean the kidnappings right?

If they are still there and they likely are, I am unsure on their removal and am likely wrong, why is it that opens up the door to the DP? The murder charges on their own weren't enough? I thought that possible as certain factors likely have to be met but I don't know what those are in IN. However, as heinous as this was, I'd think they would be able to charge the DP but it sounds like the murder statute they charged under perhaps not, unsure.

So are you thinking or just putting out there without having an opinion that they added the charges in an intent to go for the DP? Or to worry RA or the D that they would?

That's kind of opposed to your other statement that since appeals escalate to the SC the P wouldn't want or intend the DP because then the P and Gull may not want that to happen as it would go to the SC.

So which is it? P added the charges as the intend on the DP or wouldn't want such because of SC involvement? Since they differ, I'm guessing you don't have an opinion on either but are merely pointing out the facts.

Also, after a murder conviction I'd think most appeals would go to your state SC, the ISC. I'm talking non DP ones. They could of course remand to the trial court depending on the issue. As we saw in Murdaugh, the alleged jury tampering was brought back to the trial court and that likely had to be done first if that's what you mean.

And I think anything relevant to the trial court could be remanded back regardless of DP or not. However, not claiming to be sure.

"We" had a state appeal based on the baby. The local court dismissed the claim. It was appealed by "our" sides lawyers to our State Supreme Court and they found the judge wrong to do so I and it was ordered it go back and be tried or at least on the basis he had dismissed it, he was in error and that wouldn't cut it. They can always be sent back but now if you are talking the US SC then I'm not as up on that but say new evidence had the US SC deciding a new trial was in order, would that not go back to the county for ANOTHER trial? I'm pretty sure it does.

So I'm not sure what you are talking here or if it makes a ton of difference. Even if convicted to life with no DP on the table they are going to be appealing to your ISC of course. No?

So in both cases they go "up" although I guess they could appeal her sentence but once convicted and sentenced that is pretty much it as far as almost any kind of appeal to the trial court any longer, unless jury tampering or something else is found, etc.
Murder charges aren't enough without extenuating circumstances to qualify for the DP.

Of course they will probably appeal unless they come up with a plea bargain. I'm just pointing out a DP ordered case automatically appeals.

I also cannot find a time limit anywhere that states when the prosecutor has to state intent to file for the DP in Indiana. It's really not all that common in Indiana anyway.
 
This June '23 article refers to some prosecution documents that confirm the meltdown RA had and the P is still trying to get the MH records I believe. Have they been posted on here? If not, could someone with access to the MyCase site pull them down? I cannot access it from the UK. Unless anyone remembers these being posted on here already. I haven't been able to find them so far.

They likely weren't. The focus in here has been on defense filings. I am constantly surprised to go to Tom and find the P has filed something or more than one thing.

it's very one sided that way and doesn't give a true picture, as all filings are not here imo in this thread. I don't have the time nor do I access IN courts, that alone would take me the time to figure it out. However, I stay up on ALL filings by watching Tom, that's my way of keeping up and finding time for that is hard enough. I don't look for just one side's but all through him, although I will admit to I don't think I could read another defense filing if paid to do so. He's good for knowing what documents have been filed and even though his videos are long, ALL docs are covered in the beginning, after that is just chat and discussion so that part is never that long and one doesn't have to search for it in each video. Well covering something like the O defense filing could be long lol but otherwise most aren't.

He's also as unbiased as I've seen. He comes down on Gull, he come down on the D, he comes down on the P, sometimes on one subject on all of them even.

I am pretty sure if I saw what I was talking of it would have been in one of his last three maybe.I could be wrong but I think so as filings have slowed and he hasn't had to do as many lately.

As far as a June '23 article, I know you said you can't access the IN court, but you could probably find his on such. If the article was June of 2023, he would have done a show within most likely a week to three after such were filed, maybe four. He didn't start out doing weekly shows so not sure back in June of last year. He did so more as more filings came and then set Sundays as the routine day but I'm not sure when he started doing that, can't recall.

I don't know if he provides links to the docs, but he covers what is in each and what they are.

Getting well into already an all over the place schedule of a work week, little sleep and not as long before work today and I have extra sh*t this week. Have to work out trading vehicles with my daughter during our different work schedules as I need my AC fixed, it is in her area of our city and she knows the mechanic, we hope to do a quick dinner that night but I come off a couple of days of back to back hours and that day will have been to work the earliest in my schedule and will likely be wiped and rushed. I hope to do so anyhow. Then on one of my days off a day or so later, my day is shot as I have to drive to the other state in a one day round trip as I am having a land survey done of my property. While I do not have to be there, I feel I need to be. So not a usual two days at home week and one full of travel, etc. And have some prep to do for that too since I am making the trip, I try to combine getting a few things done if I can relating to the logistics of living between two states, etc. Oh and at some point need to arrange to switch cars back too. Easier said than done and it never fails I forget something I need out of my own vehicle, a charger, glasses, something I left in it, going to try to be sure I don't this time. I hope the car just needs the AC charged and I have to remember to pick that up so my daughter has it with when she bring it to him. It's about a five minute fix IF that's what's wrong. It worked another time with this car so thinking so. I'm not sending it in for repairs and to stay at this point as I don't think it's more than that that's wrong. So that's the week ahead here. Just the switching back and forth of vehicles and being without mine will be more trouble and coordinating our schedules to do so than having him actually charge the AC.

You know, I forget to mention that even though unverified "rumors" it was interesting that RA's wife was allegedly at her sister's WITH her daughter and that makes some sense to me as we know the kids were off school including her and he clearly was alone at the trails and I've always wondered what she did that day or where she was, etc. I of course have heard the rumor that she lied for him and that fits in actually with what Carter said one year about covering for someone... And much speculation was it was some family member covering for another and giving an alibi.... And then we have the rumors of the daughter and her husband AND seems it MAY be fact and come from filings that they were talked with first before Allen or wife and may have even had info and be the other way on RA. She certainly does not attend the hearings and I believe it also was said back when they moved from the Delphi area after RA was arrested. A rumor too most likely but a lot of them seem to have some merit, I mean not all is going to stay quiet or a source be named. The sister would know, people in Delphi would know or some would of some of these things like if daughter moved and more. Some of these things are not on that list.

My paragraph off topic about my upcoming week actually made me think of this as I was talking meeting with my daughter. And then I was thinking of how life is that I did not expect at this point in life and didn't go looking for when someone else throws a curve balls at ya. And since I was talking this case, it made me think of Cathy Allen... Everything is on her right now and I'm going to guess she didn't expect to be in this boat with long term marriage, daughter grown, out of the home and married and was maybe looking forward to some easier years and more time even, and grandchildren, vacations, who knows, retirement one day with RA and now her entire life is upside down. I didn't expect to be where I'm at after doing things just the opposite to put us BOTH in a better spot for years and we were about there. So unfair.

However, if she lied for him and had to give him an alibi and on top of that, knowing that, stands by him, I have no time or sympathy for her. IF she lied. If all those things are true, it sounds as if the daughter may be the more moral honest person. It also makes me wonder if there's any relationship there since perhaps one told the truth and the other did not and so she may not have her in her life any longer either... And grandma may not as well.

Some might think it minor but if that daughter and/or her hub known things that differ from the stories given by RA and wife, that's huge in itself.

Of course this is all opinion and speculation as those things too are rumors and not verified...
 
There is absolutely NOTHING on lately! Holiday makes sense of that but even before that, it was nothing but Read mostly for weeks. I should get some cooking ones today, most of them come out later on Sundays is one of the days. Thank goodness.

I've come across some cases I wanted to make threads for but haven't had the time and now can't recall the names. New ones.

Have a good day and week everyone. Time to start slowly but methodically getting ready. May be in yet in between but hard to say. Not a lot new in anything. Courts stop as does news largely over holidays.
 
Murder charges aren't enough without extenuating circumstances to qualify for the DP.

Of course they will probably appeal unless they come up with a plea bargain. I'm just pointing out a DP ordered case automatically appeals.

I also cannot find a time limit anywhere that states when the prosecutor has to state intent to file for the DP in Indiana. It's really not all that common in Indiana anyway.
That's why I thought they possibly added the kidnapping? For the extenuating circumstances, so that DP could be on the table.

Re the supposed plea deal, I seem to remember the P wanted RA to forego any appeal, if he accepted the plea. Do you remember that at all?

If you have access and time, could you check the P filings from last June in Mycase? I will check the Tom videos from the same time frame.
 
They likely weren't. The focus in here has been on defense filings. I am constantly surprised to go to Tom and find the P has filed something or more than one thing.

it's very one sided that way and doesn't give a true picture, as all filings are not here imo in this thread. I don't have the time nor do I access IN courts, that alone would take me the time to figure it out. However, I stay up on ALL filings by watching Tom, that's my way of keeping up and finding time for that is hard enough. I don't look for just one side's but all through him, although I will admit to I don't think I could read another defense filing if paid to do so. He's good for knowing what documents have been filed and even though his videos are long, ALL docs are covered in the beginning, after that is just chat and discussion so that part is never that long and one doesn't have to search for it in each video. Well covering something like the O defense filing could be long lol but otherwise most aren't.

He's also as unbiased as I've seen. He comes down on Gull, he come down on the D, he comes down on the P, sometimes on one subject on all of them even.

I am pretty sure if I saw what I was talking of it would have been in one of his last three maybe.I could be wrong but I think so as filings have slowed and he hasn't had to do as many lately.

As far as a June '23 article, I know you said you can't access the IN court, but you could probably find his on such. If the article was June of 2023, he would have done a show within most likely a week to three after such were filed, maybe four. He didn't start out doing weekly shows so not sure back in June of last year. He did so more as more filings came and then set Sundays as the routine day but I'm not sure when he started doing that, can't recall.

I don't know if he provides links to the docs, but he covers what is in each and what they are.

Getting well into already an all over the place schedule of a work week, little sleep and not as long before work today and I have extra sh*t this week. Have to work out trading vehicles with my daughter during our different work schedules as I need my AC fixed, it is in her area of our city and she knows the mechanic, we hope to do a quick dinner that night but I come off a couple of days of back to back hours and that day will have been to work the earliest in my schedule and will likely be wiped and rushed. I hope to do so anyhow. Then on one of my days off a day or so later, my day is shot as I have to drive to the other state in a one day round trip as I am having a land survey done of my property. While I do not have to be there, I feel I need to be. So not a usual two days at home week and one full of travel, etc. And have some prep to do for that too since I am making the trip, I try to combine getting a few things done if I can relating to the logistics of living between two states, etc. Oh and at some point need to arrange to switch cars back too. Easier said than done and it never fails I forget something I need out of my own vehicle, a charger, glasses, something I left in it, going to try to be sure I don't this time. I hope the car just needs the AC charged and I have to remember to pick that up so my daughter has it with when she bring it to him. It's about a five minute fix IF that's what's wrong. It worked another time with this car so thinking so. I'm not sending it in for repairs and to stay at this point as I don't think it's more than that that's wrong. So that's the week ahead here. Just the switching back and forth of vehicles and being without mine will be more trouble and coordinating our schedules to do so than having him actually charge the AC.

You know, I forget to mention that even though unverified "rumors" it was interesting that RA's wife was allegedly at her sister's WITH her daughter and that makes some sense to me as we know the kids were off school including her and he clearly was alone at the trails and I've always wondered what she did that day or where she was, etc. I of course have heard the rumor that she lied for him and that fits in actually with what Carter said one year about covering for someone... And much speculation was it was some family member covering for another and giving an alibi.... And then we have the rumors of the daughter and her husband AND seems it MAY be fact and come from filings that they were talked with first before Allen or wife and may have even had info and be the other way on RA. She certainly does not attend the hearings and I believe it also was said back when they moved from the Delphi area after RA was arrested. A rumor too most likely but a lot of them seem to have some merit, I mean not all is going to stay quiet or a source be named. The sister would know, people in Delphi would know or some would of some of these things like if daughter moved and more. Some of these things are not on that list.

My paragraph off topic about my upcoming week actually made me think of this as I was talking meeting with my daughter. And then I was thinking of how life is that I did not expect at this point in life and didn't go looking for when someone else throws a curve balls at ya. And since I was talking this case, it made me think of Cathy Allen... Everything is on her right now and I'm going to guess she didn't expect to be in this boat with long term marriage, daughter grown, out of the home and married and was maybe looking forward to some easier years and more time even, and grandchildren, vacations, who knows, retirement one day with RA and now her entire life is upside down. I didn't expect to be where I'm at after doing things just the opposite to put us BOTH in a better spot for years and we were about there. So unfair.

However, if she lied for him and had to give him an alibi and on top of that, knowing that, stands by him, I have no time or sympathy for her. IF she lied. If all those things are true, it sounds as if the daughter may be the more moral honest person. It also makes me wonder if there's any relationship there since perhaps one told the truth and the other did not and so she may not have her in her life any longer either... And grandma may not as well.

Some might think it minor but if that daughter and/or her hub known things that differ from the stories given by RA and wife, that's huge in itself.

Of course this is all opinion and speculation as those things too are rumors and not verified...
I'll take a quick look at Tom's YouTube.
 
That's why I thought they possibly added the kidnapping? For the extenuating circumstances, so that DP could be on the table.

Re the supposed plea deal, I seem to remember the P wanted RA to forego any appeal, if he accepted the plea. Do you remember that at all?

If you have access and time, could you check the P filings from last June in Mycase? I will check the Tom videos from the same time frame.
Yes, I mentioned upthread adding kidnapping and such satisfies the extenuating circumstances.

I don't recall an offer for a plea deal at all. Any negotiations are not part of the public record and we shouldn't have heard about it.
 
Yes, I mentioned upthread adding kidnapping and such satisfies the extenuating circumstances.

I don't recall an offer for a plea deal at all. Any negotiations are not part of the public record and we shouldn't have heard about it.
Well we/I (I did anyway) did hear it but I don't recall the source.
 
I agree it is admission of guilt, 30 times too, by the sound of it, so why his lawyers aren't working on a plea deal, I don't know. If you read that Reddit post I linked it does suggest they have been talking about a plea deal, but I don't know the truth of any of that.

(I see I did already reply but these are some additional thoughts)
I searched the thread and this is the only source I've found so far regarding a plea deal.
 
I definitely remember a reference to a plea deal offered by the P but they stipulated that appeal rights would have to be lost if the plea was accepted. I don't know if anyone remembers that other than me, though.
 
Talking of appeals, Kline lost his sentence appeal. He was originally sentenced to 43 years. Article states he is eligible for parole in 2048, which is actually only 24 years time.


Sunday, July 7, 2024
Kline’s appeal denied
June 27, 2024
By Amy Graham-McCarty
amy@hurdmedia.com
Kegan_Kline-copy-235x300.jpg

KEGAN KLINE

A Miami County man’s appeal of his sentence for multiple counts of child pornography has been denied.

On July 31, 2023, Kegan Kline was sentenced to 43 years in the Indiana Department of Corrections with three years suspended to probation, for multiple felonies involving child exploitation and related offenses.

In December 2023, Kline’s attorneys appealed his sentence saying it was “manifestly unreasonable” based on the nature of the offenses and his character. The legal team said their client has no previous criminal history, and by pleading guilty Kline saved the State time and money.

In August 2020, Kline was charged with multiple counts of child exploitation and child pornography. The State later amended those charges to include one count of Level 5 felony child solicitation, eight counts of Level 5 felony child exploitation, four counts of Level 5 felony possession of child pornography, seven counts of Level 6 felony possession of child pornography, two counts of Level 6 felony synthetic identity deception, and three counts of Level 6 felony obstruction of justice. On March 30, 2023, Kline pleaded guilty as charged without a plea agreement.

Kline used several catfished social media accounts including “Emily Ann” and “anthony_shots.” He told HLN reporter Barbara MacDonald that police told him that the anthony_shots account was the last to communicate with Abigail Williams and Libby German before the girls were murdered on Feb. 13, 2017. Kline has not been charged in the deaths of the girls. In Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland’s Motion at Limine, he asked that Kline’s name not be allowed to be spoken by Richard Allen’s defense team during Allen’s trial. Allen has been charged with two counts of murder and two counts of felony murder in the deaths of Abby and Libby.

In Miami County, Judge Timothy Spahr found the following aggravating circumstances when sentencing Kline, “(1) The harm, injury, loss, or damage suffered by the victims of the Defendant was significant and greater than the elements necessary to prove the commission of the offenses; (2) the Defendant has a history of criminal and delinquent behavior; (3) the victims of some of the offenses were less than twelve (12) years of age; (4) the Defendant was in a position having control of some of his victims; and (5) the Defendant’s sexual behavior and attitudes and selfish, manipulative character support the imposition of additional sentencing consequences upon him.”

One mitigating circumstance was found; “The Defendant entered a plea of guilty, saving the State the time and expense of a trial and sparing the victims from having to testify (though that is tempered to some extent by the fact that there was substantial evidence of the Defendant’s guilt),” court documents state.

The trial court found that Kline had committed a total of 13 episodes of criminal conduct.

According to court documents, Kline solicited sexually explicit videos from young girls when he knew their ages. He manipulated the girls and stalked them. He sought very young girls of specific age ranges. He also serviced himself while watching the videos that he had obtained.

“An investigation uncovered ‘thousands and thousands’ of messages between Kline and young girls,” court documents state.

In his appeal, Kline asserts that many of his charges should be combined as one act of criminal conduct because they happened on the same day and are closely related in time, place, and circumstance.

“Kline is incorrect. It is true that, for Counts 10 through 20, the amended information alleged that Kline possessed the images on February 25, 2017. But that was merely the date that the images were seized,” court documents state. “As the State points out, the evidence shows that the offenses underlying Counts 10 through 20 constitute five episodes of criminal conduct because the pornographic images underlying those counts were created on media managed by Kline on five separate dates.

“Specifically, the State presented evidence that the pornographic image supporting Count 14 was created on September 14, 2015; the same for Count 15 was created on March 17, 2016; the same for Counts 11 and 12 were created on May 4, 2016; the same for Counts 10, 16, and 17 were created on May 14, 2016; and the same for Counts 13, 18, 19 and 20 were created on May 17, 2016. These were four Level 5 and seven Level 6 counts of possession of child pornography.”

Whether or not an offense constitutes a “single episode of criminal conduct” is a fact-intensive inquiry, court documents state.

“While ‘the ability to recount each charge without referring to the other’ offers ‘guidance on the question of whether a defendant’s conduct constitutes an episode of criminal conduct,’ we focus our analysis on ‘the timing of the offenses’ and ‘the simultaneous and contemporaneous nature of the crimes,’ if any … Kline does not dispute that the images supporting these charges were created on five separate dates. His sole argument on appeal is that his possession of those images on the same date means that his offenses constitute an episode of criminal conduct under the statute. But the evidence shows that the offenses were neither simultaneous nor contemporaneous.”

In concluding their decision, and affirming Kline’s current sentence, the appeals court judges state the trial court did not err when finding that Counts 10 through 20 were comprised of five episodes of criminal conduct under Indiana Code section 35-50-1-2.

Courtney Alwine, the lead prosecutor on the case, issued the following statement: “We are pleased with the decision the Court of Appeals issued last Thursday. The 43-year sentence delivered in this case was a just and deserving sentence well supported by the law and reflective of the nature of Kegan Kline’s offenses. As the Court of Appeals indicated in a footnote, ‘This Court has rarely had occasion to consider a more heinous set of facts than those here.’

“My colleagues and I have a similar impression of this case and of the depravity we saw on Mr. Kline’s devices. Our thoughts continue to be with the countless victims impacted by Kegan Kline. We remain committed to our community, our children, and ensuring justice is served against those who are the most deserving.”

Kline has 45 days to file a Petition to Transfer to the Indiana Supreme Court if he so chooses. He remains in the IDOC New Castle Correctional Annex. His earliest possible release date is Aug. 19, 2048.
 
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