LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Why is it things aren't being heard yet or scheduled to be heard? There's no reason to wait for October or last minute. Where did that last leave off, I think B & R claimed not ready to argue them right?

I just heard that the prosecution Celebrite expert made it crystal clear the search in Read for how long for someone to die in the cold was at 6 sometihing a.m. and not at 2 something or whatever it was lol. I figured such or similar would be the case all along but I'll tell you the rules and ways need to change where prosecution can let some of this stuff out because they let a whole PR campaign go on with people touting this falsehood everywhere and news as well and so on and in the thread here repeatedly as well forEVER and people believed it... This keeping everything close to the vest while the other side, one side, mounts a false scenario and trumpets falsehoods as well isn't working and allows damage to be down to public opinion for those who fall for ONE side's blitz (I don't but many do). In this case too, they are doing the same while the defense less effectively but still changed the tone for many tried to do similar with the O thing and more, they keep mum. I'm not saying they should share all but they sure could come out and say SOMETHING instead of letting one narrative go on.

So there goes the biggest smoking gun everyone thought they had and touted to no end. However, why wait so LONG to get that out there, even in trial? Perhaps hoping for an ending big impact or some such? It's really the main thing most hung there hat on saying constantly, THIS would be the end IF this search occurred before all happened. And it did NOT.

Defenses are using the internet world and ways to get full blown ******** stories and false facts into the minds of many and prosecutions need to change their ways to counter this somewhat. Imo.
I have already said I think they are going to end up doing a deal. That's why we aren't hearing anything. There has been no more about getting rid of Gull either has there?

A month of nothing has happened. It's very odd.

ETA Oops I should have kept my big mouth shut. See next post.
 
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According to this link, the D are still up to their old tricks - asking the judge to recuse, trying to get RA in a local jail and moaning about the P looking at ex parte motions. Why don't they try working on the defence of their client? Haven't found the motion yet but will post it when I do.

Delphi murder suspect's attorneys plan to call Judge Gull as a witness

The document is available at this Reddit link. 21 pages so could someone who gives a s**t read it and summarize it in a couple of sentences for us please? I don't have the time or patience to read their BS long motions anymore.

 
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According to this link, the D are still up to their old tricks - asking the judge to recuse, trying to get RA in a local jail and moaning about the P looking at ex parte motions. Why don't they try working on the defence of their client? Haven't found the motion yet but will post it when I do.

Delphi murder suspect's attorneys plan to call Judge Gull as a witness

The document is available at this Reddit link. 21 pages so could someone who gives a s**t read it and summarize it in a couple of sentences for us please? I don't have the time or patience to read their BS long motions anymore.


Every bit of it sounds like old sh*t except perhaps calling her as a witness. Then the article says this is to respond and make a record as its purpose.

I'm not going to read more of their sh*t or of the same old lol. Tom will cover it, that's what he is for imo. He saves us all or anyone who watches him and all they have to listen to is the first part of his shows, he always does the new filings first. Then it's chatting and answering viewers, etc.

They say the public perceives her as biased and so that should do it for one thing. That's hilarious because I don't see her that way and many others don't either. Internet and sensationalism would cause people easy to convince to believe such but judges can't do their jobs on such a basis. It's such B.S. and not only that, it's just something again they throw out there with no substance. Hey they didn't ask me or half or even 3/4 of the people following this case, many of whom don't say much and many who do. I't's a stupid remark that that constitutes reason.Has the public started its own petition by the way to destroy Gull, take her off the bench, off the case? I shouldn't say that, now they'll try such and line up "their" people as they did with leaks to do so lol.

Did the ISC remove her? NO. So little basis here.

The ISC pretty much told them they don't want to see them back and this all needs to be handled at the trial court level. So they need to see all through and appeal after trial.

I didn't read the filing, just the article you linked.

It sounds like a bunch of the same and in fact I thought it was an old one until goingi into read to be sure what the article said as to date and all. That's how similar it sounds to the same old, same old.

Now I read the eight page recent prosecution filing you put up earlier. Not a problem reading that, was written as a legal filing should be. Sailed through it and no problem sticking all eight pages out.
They drain people with their stunts and they will do drain a jury too given long enough and turn them off. Maybe instantly for that matter.

They'd better startt getting their sh*t together and working on the ACTUAL CASE to represent their client. No evidence here whatsoever they are yet. Mom and wife were crying at the last deal, how long will they buy this team is doing their job whatsoever and they aren't the reason for the delays... EVERYONE else was ready to go. And will be in October too. I don't think they will, we will see more exuses and it will be pointed or tried to that the had no choice yet again. IMO OF COURSE.
 
I have already said I think they are going to end up doing a deal. That's why we aren't hearing anything. There has been no more about getting rid of Gull either has there?

A month of nothing has happened. It's very odd.

ETA Oops I should have kept my big mouth shut. See next post.
Well we have disagreed before and sometimes we just need to agree to disagree. I see no hint nor reason to think a deal will result in this case. Rick may have been and be even yet willing to take a life without parole sentence or some such and not go through trial but his attorneys, wife and mom are not on board imo. I don't think he WANTS what is in the evidence known to the public. He likely knows by now his wife and mom may well know and have remained by him so perhaps quit worrying about that but maybe he too with that out of the way wants to go to trial and make no deal.

I'm curious what you think prosecution would offer for a deal of a man who slaughtered two female teenagers in cold blood...? And why you'd think they'd give much if at all? It isn't UP to Rick. They can say we aren't interested in ANY deal.

Perhaps if he confessed ALL and took two life sentences without parole for the murders, MAYBE they'd dismiss anything else. And of course the girls' family can weigh in and add a lot of weight but it isn't up to the victims, it is up to the prosecutor/s and even then a judge doesn't have to approve a deal the two sides made either. Smart prosecutors do listen to the victims' families but they don't have to abide by whether they agree to or reject any deals.

I'd point out again even if both sides agree, a judge doesn't have to rubber stamp it either and they don't like Gull so why would they risk that...? Of course any judge too would be dumb too to go against an agreement by all parties...

For all these reasons, I see no deal unless he agrees to life on both girls murders without parole and owns up. I don't think they'd consider any less. The prosecution.

It also goes against everything they are saying and doing, he didn't do it remember? So why would he make a deal if he didn't?

Yeah, we just disagree on this point which is okay.
 
First thank you for finding an article that seems to hit all the points for those of us who can't do another defense filing or read one. It was both but the second had all the claims or I suspect it does in far shorter version than the D probably did.

I find it tall the same old sh*t with their opinion and no substance nor proof any of it is any such thing as they make it out to be. It's like whiny kindergarteners, I'm serious with no substance at all like all they do and say. it is not even smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors are better.

The PRISONER refused to attend court and that would be the only thing in this whole thing imo that merits discussion. We are seeing this all of the time lately with defendants and prisoners and judges basically won't and can't force them or worry then what slap they will get if they do so. Happened in Montgomery. Has happened in many.

No matter what THAT is, all the other stuff is b.s. and the same old stuff. They have a dot here and a dot way over there but are missing 20 more dots to connect any of it. And some of it or most just not relate at all to like knowing fabricated facts, etc. it is so ridiculous even a layperson NEVER following a case or anything in court can see through it, that tit means NO such thing as to the other things and so on. It's like they do what some do on the internet, if you repeat something often enough to the point of redundancy and ad nauseum eventually it will become truth, fact, and urban legend or whatever the heck but these are lawyers.

THEY filed the ex parte sh*t wrong. Pretty certain. I got an email meant for someone in another case once, another blunder supposedly in error by B's office or whatever, n my divorce case. Of COURSE I read it, I didn't know it wasn't intended for me until I read it.

Anyhow, not directed at you of course but to the article and filing. They never have any SUBSTANCE. EVER. Just trying to connect things that don't connect and trying to make things true or proven that are no such thing.

And I this is for what was partly said to make a record, well good luck with that because the appeals court will see the lack of substance far quicker than the rest of us and it is obvious to me.

I'm curious should Gull have told them to strip search the prisoner, put him in shackles and drag him to the courtroom? Oh my what would one side with blinders be saying then? Has anyone ever seen someone dragged into a courtroom the day they refused to abide by a subpoena or didn't show up? I don't know but I'm guessing the next step would be to not advise and see if he shows up or changes his mind and then they would have to say he didn't appear or abide by the subpoena and ask the judge to issue an order, I'd think or contempt and an order to appear then by the judge and not just a subpoena. I don't know but I'm just saying there's always sh*t missing and no substance. Now if she had advised them then what to do next and why and all that but she didn't. Should she REALLY have said FORCE HIM I DON'T CARE what it takes? I don't think so.

Anyhow, it was a fairly long read but not like reading their doc would have been so thank you, it shows nothing much there yet again, even for an appeals court later imo. Not that I know, I just know there's no substance.
 
Tom will be on next Wed to discuss any new filings. With things having slowed, and no filings in a few weeks until recently and then not much of one in my opinion, he has dropped back. he adds more shows when the pace picks up and did when it did prior.

 
Well we have disagreed before and sometimes we just need to agree to disagree. I see no hint nor reason to think a deal will result in this case. Rick may have been and be even yet willing to take a life without parole sentence or some such and not go through trial but his attorneys, wife and mom are not on board imo. I don't think he WANTS what is in the evidence known to the public. He likely knows by now his wife and mom may well know and have remained by him so perhaps quit worrying about that but maybe he too with that out of the way wants to go to trial and make no deal.

I'm curious what you think prosecution would offer for a deal of a man who slaughtered two female teenagers in cold blood...? And why you'd think they'd give much if at all? It isn't UP to Rick. They can say we aren't interested in ANY deal.

Perhaps if he confessed ALL and took two life sentences without parole for the murders, MAYBE they'd dismiss anything else. And of course the girls' family can weigh in and add a lot of weight but it isn't up to the victims, it is up to the prosecutor/s and even then a judge doesn't have to approve a deal the two sides made either. Smart prosecutors do listen to the victims' families but they don't have to abide by whether they agree to or reject any deals.

I'd point out again even if both sides agree, a judge doesn't have to rubber stamp it either and they don't like Gull so why would they risk that...? Of course any judge too would be dumb too to go against an agreement by all parties...

For all these reasons, I see no deal unless he agrees to life on both girls murders without parole and owns up. I don't think they'd consider any less. The prosecution.

It also goes against everything they are saying and doing, he didn't do it remember? So why would he make a deal if he didn't?

Yeah, we just disagree on this point which is okay.
I am basing a possible deal on the reddit rumours I posted but also on the fact of his 35+ confessions. As a reminder, that suggested a deal would have to agree no future appeal possibility.

So he wouldn't appear at court the last time ? Is that right? Or are you talking about the other prisoner who wrote the letter?
 
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Thanks for this.

From the link -

DELPHI — Attorneys for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen say they will call Judge Frances Gull as a defense witness in a future hearing.

RELATED | Reinstated Richard Allen attorneys request disqualification of special judge (wrtv.com)

In a Tuesday filing, Allen's attorneys say Judge Gull will be asked to testify on the credibility of a Carroll County Sheriff's Office (CCSO) report.


According to the attorneys, in the June 2023 report, Judge Gull allegedly told a CCSO Deputy that they could ignore a
subpoena for Westville Correctional facility inmate Robert Baston, who was supposed to testify about Allen's abusive treatment in prison.

Gull's order "left Mr. Allen without crucial evidence for the hearing, thereby subverting justice for him," the defense said.

However, in a May 2023 order, Judge Gull denies telling the CCSO to ignore the subpeona.

In fact, Allen's attorneys say Judge Gull stated that, “The decision by the Deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the Court.”

Now, the lawyers are asking Judge Gull to testify that the report, approved by Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby, was in fact false.

"Given that Judge Gull is the only individual who knows that she did not direct the CCSO office to ignore the subpoena and leave Mr. Baston at Westville (despite the contrary assertions in the CCSO report) she has become a witness to Tobe Leazenby’s truthfulness and to the fact that the information contained in CCSO’s report is false," the defense wrote.

The defense plans to call Judge Gull as a witness at a future hearing or trial.
 
I am basing a possible deal on the reddit rumours I posted but also on the fact of his 35+ confessions. As a reminder, that suggested a deal would have to agree no future appeal possibility.

So he wouldn't appear at court the last time ? Is that right? Or are you talking about the other prisoner who wrote the letter?
and that would explain it somewhat as I am never on Reddit. I think Rick may want a deal or know it is hopeless or he is taking a big chance, I just don't see the prosecution giving him any gravy deal that does not involve life in prison without the possibility of parole and ideally a sentence of that on EACH girl so both get their justice, I think the public and families would be upset with anything less. Jmo. And why would RA go for that when he isn't facing a DP anyhow, he may as well go to trial and see what happens, HOWEVER, I think there is something with him that doesn't want all to know what all is known, see the evidence, all come out, his confessions, etc. and have that all in the public. He talked about his "reputation" the day they went to get the car... Huh? I mean it is going to come out regardless or should eventually.

I also think and truly believe his mom, wife AND the defense are influencing him or he would have confessed and taken a deal as he was asking for, almost begging for it sounds like when he saw what they have against him.

What do you mean by your last paragraph? I reread my post and not sure to what you are referring, didn't see anything relating to that.

yes he would appear if you mean for a plea deal or sentencing.

as to the other prisoner and subpoena that is another subject that I don't think was in this post of mine here you responded to. I am easily confused and not following that entire last paragraph. Lol.
 
Thanks for this.

From the link -

DELPHI — Attorneys for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen say they will call Judge Frances Gull as a defense witness in a future hearing.

RELATED | Reinstated Richard Allen attorneys request disqualification of special judge (wrtv.com)

In a Tuesday filing, Allen's attorneys say Judge Gull will be asked to testify on the credibility of a Carroll County Sheriff's Office (CCSO) report.


According to the attorneys, in the June 2023 report, Judge Gull allegedly told a CCSO Deputy that they could ignore a
subpoena for Westville Correctional facility inmate Robert Baston, who was supposed to testify about Allen's abusive treatment in prison.

Gull's order "left Mr. Allen without crucial evidence for the hearing, thereby subverting justice for him," the defense said.

However, in a May 2023 order, Judge Gull denies telling the CCSO to ignore the subpeona.

In fact, Allen's attorneys say Judge Gull stated that, “The decision by the Deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the Court.”

Now, the lawyers are asking Judge Gull to testify that the report, approved by Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby, was in fact false.

"Given that Judge Gull is the only individual who knows that she did not direct the CCSO office to ignore the subpoena and leave Mr. Baston at Westville (despite the contrary assertions in the CCSO report) she has become a witness to Tobe Leazenby’s truthfulness and to the fact that the information contained in CCSO’s report is false," the defense wrote.

The defense plans to call Judge Gull as a witness at a future hearing or trial.
Whatever. I read it the other day and no substance. I have to wonder if they ever did get her off the case and a new judge on what they'd do or say next when their shenanigans were still see through... They live in just the moment of trying to keep all from seeing they can't do their job.

Isn't it the MW case that another judge is on and not her?

They again in this filing are combining things that are not fact and do not relate imo and as always lack any substance.

They have got to go through the trial court process, make a record in it and then appeal. And good luck with that too as the things they are getting on the record have no substance when it comes to appeal. They do not back anything up for a bill or need for payment or give any supportive documentation to the serious guts of the case. They just say and yell but they file nothing right and they back nothing up. A layperson can see through this malarkey. Lol.
 

New pre-trial hearing dates set for Delphi murders case​

The judge in the Delphi murders case has set new court dates for Richard Allen's pre-trial hearing.

Following the cancellation of the originally scheduled three-day hearing back in May, Judge Frances Gull has now re-scheduled the pre-trial hearing to July 30, 31 and August 1.

The hearings will tackle nearly a dozen different motions from both the prosecutor and defense on various issues including motions to suppress evidence and other motions to admit evidence.

These hearings will not include the unusual motion the defense filed earlier this week, in which they once again asked Gull to step down because they intend to call her as a witness in the future.
 
I guess we will see if they are ready YET or will try something else to have these hearings delayed. The defense I mean of course.
 
Lol I love Tom as most know. He criticizes Gull in one breath but in the next says the defense can't even spell her first name and they wonder why she thinks them incompetent and picks on them LMAO. He takes spelling and such a bit seriously and typos lol Was on them right away too for spelling judgment both ways before they hardly started with their document. They certainly are NOT the best at such and are no decent proofreaders either :D

He's going through the long defense filing (went through prosecution filing first) and I'm glad he's doing it because even with his fun jabs, it is tedious as usual imo, their filing.
 
Well I'm not sure what page he's on with this wasn't it 21 page document? So far it seems to be saying that either Leazenby is lying or Gull is and she needs to be called as a witness for that reason if I understand it correctly and I think I do. They descend as usual from there into other things. Tom's no lawyer but has some good points on all of it.

Lol he is also calling out more defense errors, in one spot it should be 2023 instead of 2024 and spelled their own client's name as Richad. Seriously what are these guys on or was I just fortunate enough to work for people that accuracy in legal documents mattered greatly to and to many I doesn't or is it just B & R?

I make many typos these days, do not have my ideal keyboard and don't care but I'm not filing a legal document nor am I doing work product. I can't get over them, I tell you, and more descending into of course this caused this and this caused that, none of which is fact. Imo. A lot of it about trying to negate the confessions again...

Also, Tom says and he's right, they seem to change facts and stories depending on what issue they are addressing... (I paraphrased that)

O/T: I am sooooo full. We did this huge buffet brunch this morning and it was past 6 before I even thought of eating again and then got into my leftover Chinese which is SOOOO good, both were outstanding and so i'm miserable for the second time today. Back to work early tomorrow. Sigh. Daughter stayed until 3 helping me do some things, mom and sister left around noon awhile after visiting after brunch. Was nice seeing them all. The Chinese place near my daughter is the most outstanding one ANY of us have ever been to, man is it good. And brunch well that's well known, very good and well attended too. We got there and there wasn't a parking spot to be found in the huge lot. Thankfully a good many were golfing and not ALL in the restaurant but it was still very, very busy.

So now I'm catching up on cases and knew Tom had this one out and yet I could have fallen asleep hours ago, so tired, little sleep last night.

Tom's are usually long but this one is under 40 minutes. I'm not through it all yet, so I am guessing he doesn't do a chat after or very long of one.
 
I guess they've called RA Ree-shad (Richad) in many a filing lol. He wants to know who proofreads these filings.... :D
 
This is beyond RIDICULOUS. They complain that Gull called NM a ding dong and did NOT call Rozzi one! Can you get any more STUPID or chilidish?! In a PLEADING no less. Absolutely asinine. The whole content of that part is beyond STUPID. They just can't file anything without descending into being petulant whiney children.

So he WANTS to be called a DING DONG? I've never seen a stupider remark in a court document in my LIFE.
 

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