LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I think that means he is paying to divert something from Huntington County, prior to his upcoming trial, probably.
No, it doesn't. It actually on his conversion case. You can't just divert something thats already settled and slap the diversion notice and fee on a completely separate case in a completely separate County in the US.

What happened in Huntington County?
 
Well here is one for everyone and did anyone see this elsewhere today? First I heard. Another "leak" and Murder Sheet and more. Scott's videos are hard to park as he always covers many cases of the moment but go to 17 minutes in. I'm not exact but that should have you waiting only a few seconds to hear this case. at most. Defense strategy, Atty Cara Wieneke, YT podcaster, etc.

Well I think this says enough about Wieneke... Who I have remarked on before...

Let me know if anyone sees the defense strategy lol...

Funny that I/we were just talking about how close this is and expect it to heat up, and kinks to be thrown etc. and here we go.

Scott says they may want to refresh themselves on confidentiality and ethics (the DEFENSE). No intentional leaks here....

 
No, it doesn't. It actually on his conversion case. You can't just divert something thats already settled and slap the diversion notice and fee on a completely separate case in a completely separate County in the US.

What happened in Huntington County?
I don't know. I am just pointing out some anomalies on that record that don't seem to fit the conversion thing. You think it is a deal that he is doing for the current charge?

I guess we will have to see what happens once he pays the rest of the fee.
 
Well here is one for everyone and did anyone see this elsewhere today? First I heard. Another "leak" and Murder Sheet and more. Scott's videos are hard to park as he always covers many cases of the moment but go to 17 minutes in. I'm not exact but that should have you waiting only a few seconds to hear this case. at most. Defense strategy, Atty Cara Wieneke, YT podcaster, etc.

Well I think this says enough about Wieneke... Who I have remarked on before...

Let me know if anyone sees the defense strategy lol...

Funny that I/we were just talking about how close this is and expect it to heat up, and kinks to be thrown etc. and here we go.

Scott says they may want to refresh themselves on confidentiality and ethics (the DEFENSE). No intentional leaks here....


Ok so Wieneke says she didn't reveal D strategy because they had already done that themselves, but we will have to wait and see I guess.
 
I don't know. I am just pointing out some anomalies on that record that don't seem to fit the conversion thing. You think it is a deal that he is doing for the current charge?

I guess we will have to see what happens once he pays the rest of the fee.
He hasn't paid the whole fee? I missed that. Lol.

I am not entirely understanding it but my guess is if he didn't clean up past acts, fines, charges, that that could play into sentencing if convicted here in this current charge of conversion? Am I way off? If so, someone can let me know but so far it seems no one quite knows the answer to this and we are all a bit confused by it?

I lean towards it may be to make a deal/one has been struck. Otherwise he is ensuring that no past thing can be considered on sentencing that he could have had expunged had he paid his fine/fee to expunge (remember that word lol?).

That's where I lean but have to admit I don't know just a best guess. Does anyone here know? We need an expert lol.
 
So Judge Gull is still on the case, but only because the D continued to file motions. So she did mess up by not responding to a motion.
I kind of read it//interpret it differently or maybe I mean the same as you do in another way. They kept it current, not expiring as to time because they kept filing on he same thing further adds and a number 2, 3, 4 etc. Had they left it at just the number one and only one, until getting a decision and some action, they'd have a more legitimate claim. Let it go past the time frame, don't yourself delay things, and then yell.

Not sure if I am putting that clearly. This is about the whole Frank's thing right if I haven't totally forgotten with all the bs in this case and some others? They kept it fresh by filing another and another and another. They also themselves interfered in between.

It is an entirely different thing but in Daybell Lori wanted speedy trial throughout but then any time shed' go to a mental hospital, the clock in figuring that or counting the days for her rights to speedy trial would stop. That doesn't count for the prosecution or court not to have brought trial within six months if she is being "restored".

I know I am making no sense by my point is I think the D 'continuing' the Frank's motions to an add and another may not have closed the window of time to rule because they were never done with it. I will say thought rather than adding like to the first motion, they did always label them #2, #3, etc.

So some hockey going on here perhaps but I don't think justice should ever be one big game. And until I see otherwise the defense is playing checkers versus chess.
 
I kind of read it//interpret it differently or maybe I mean the same as you do in another way. They kept it current, not expiring as to time because they kept filing on he same thing further adds and a number 2, 3, 4 etc. Had they left it at just the number one and only one, until getting a decision and some action, they'd have a more legitimate claim. Let it go past the time frame, don't yourself delay things, and then yell.

Not sure if I am putting that clearly. This is about the whole Frank's thing right if I haven't totally forgotten with all the bs in this case and some others? They kept it fresh by filing another and another and another. They also themselves interfered in between.

It is an entirely different thing but in Daybell Lori wanted speedy trial throughout but then any time shed' go to a mental hospital, the clock in figuring that or counting the days for her rights to speedy trial would stop. That doesn't count for the prosecution or court not to have brought trial within six months if she is being "restored".

I know I am making no sense by my point is I think the D 'continuing' the Frank's motions to an add and another may not have closed the window of time to rule because they were never done with it. I will say thought rather than adding like to the first motion, they did always label them #2, #3, etc.

So some hockey going on here perhaps but I don't think justice should ever be one big game. And until I see otherwise the defense is playing checkers versus chess.
Yeah I don't completely follow it all but Gull stays is the important bit.

On the fee paid by MW it looks to me like he has only paid some of it so far based on the record posted by Roundpeg. That's how I interpret it but I could be wrong.
 
Yeah I don't completely follow it all but Gull stays is the important bit.

On the fee paid by MW it looks to me like he has only paid some of it so far based on the record posted by Roundpeg. That's how I interpret it but I could be wrong.
I pretty much figured they were not going to remove Gull. They aren't going to interfere unless something is so serious and what we really have is just I'm sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise but whiners who haven't done their job from the get go. The D I mean.

I just saw a fee paid or referred to. Didn't know there was more to be paid. Is it a thou or something versus 500?

He is probably too busy trying to make up with the gf and supporting her while having another to support. Yes, sarcasm. They can't pay it out of the GFM or whatever fundraising app (a new one I'd never heard of I think) or that would get called out. And if B & R would pay him or help him then they'd have to admit he works for them... And that story has changed back and forth....

I TRY but I fail to see that anyone does not see them as total bozos and worse the have failed their own client and they know it and are trying to not have that know/recover. I don't even say that to be on a side or dig at it or anything, I mean how much does it take seeing to see such? Once in a blue moon I will think all of it may be intentional and a game but then I go back to they didn't even bother seeing their client who had a new life of being arrested and incarcerated and nope, they are just rotten attorneys. Sorry for anyone that might offend.

I don't have a reason or need to say that, do not know them, am not from there, have no horse in the race. Just LOOK at it. And then.

I have said before back a time ago but many times, if I had time to do a timeline and what they've done or not done or pulled....

I can see it, I just can't put it all down in a cohesive format.

It is SOOOO obvious to me though.
 
Another link about Gull.


Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen lost in his latest attempt to remove Special Judge Frances Gull off the double-murder case after the Indiana Supreme Court's chief administrative officer decided Friday that doing so "is not warranted."

Allen, through his attorney, argued last week that Gull has violated rules by failing to make decisions on two of the defense team's motions within the 30-day time frame the rules required. Because of this, the case must be withdrawn from Gull's court, and the Indiana Supreme Court must appoint a special judge, defense attorney Andrew Baldwin argued, citing Indiana trial rules.

"However, Mr. Allen is mistaken, and the matter should not be removed from the trial court," Justin Forkner, chief administrative officer of the Indiana Supreme Court, wrote in a decision Friday.

Allen County Superior Court Judge Frances Gull

Allen County Superior Court Judge Frances Gull
COURTESY OF INDIANA COURT TIMES
Forkner said the rules ― specifically Indiana Trial Rule 53.1 ― no longer apply to Allen because the deadline to ask for withdrawal based on the judge's failure to issue timely rulings has passed.

The request centers on two motions that were filed in March and April. Months later, Gull has yet to issue a ruling. But Forker said that to successfully remove the case from Gull's court, Allen should've made the request shortly after the 30-day time frame had elapsed ― not months later.

The two motions are seeking what's called a Frank's hearing, which would allow the defense team to present evidence that law enforcement made false statements in an affidavit that ultimately led to Allen's arrest in October 2022.

A 'legal disaster': Delphi murder case, marred by delays and endless fights

Allen is facing four murder charges for the deaths of Abigail "Abby" Williams and Liberty "Libby" German. The Delphi teens were last seen hiking on the Monon High Bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. Their bodies were found the next day. Allen, who worked at a local pharmacy, was arrested and charged more than five years later.

Officers transport murder suspect Richard Allen during a hearing regarding sealed documents, Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2022, at Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Ind.

Officers transport murder suspect Richard Allen during a hearing regarding sealed documents, Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2022, at Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Ind.
ALEX MARTIN/JOURNAL AND COURIER
The case has been marred by controversies, delays and endless fights. Allen's attorneys have accused Gull of being biased against them by "maligning" them and calling them "incompetent," "negligent" and "sloppy." Last month, Gull rejected another attempt by the defense team to persuade her to step down from the case, saying adverse rulings "do not support a reasonable basis for questioning the Court's impartiality, nor are they grounds for disqualification."

Evidence leak, suicide, Odinists: Inside 'bizarre' Delphi murders case

Several other pending motions on critical issues, including what evidence can and cannot be presented to the jury, are set for hearings from July 30 to Aug. 1 in Carroll County.

Allen's trial is set to begin in October and is expected to last more than a month.
 
Another link about Gull.


Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen lost in his latest attempt to remove Special Judge Frances Gull off the double-murder case after the Indiana Supreme Court's chief administrative officer decided Friday that doing so "is not warranted."

Allen, through his attorney, argued last week that Gull has violated rules by failing to make decisions on two of the defense team's motions within the 30-day time frame the rules required. Because of this, the case must be withdrawn from Gull's court, and the Indiana Supreme Court must appoint a special judge, defense attorney Andrew Baldwin argued, citing Indiana trial rules.

"However, Mr. Allen is mistaken, and the matter should not be removed from the trial court," Justin Forkner, chief administrative officer of the Indiana Supreme Court, wrote in a decision Friday.

Allen County Superior Court Judge Frances Gull

Allen County Superior Court Judge Frances Gull
COURTESY OF INDIANA COURT TIMES
Forkner said the rules ― specifically Indiana Trial Rule 53.1 ― no longer apply to Allen because the deadline to ask for withdrawal based on the judge's failure to issue timely rulings has passed.

The request centers on two motions that were filed in March and April. Months later, Gull has yet to issue a ruling. But Forker said that to successfully remove the case from Gull's court, Allen should've made the request shortly after the 30-day time frame had elapsed ― not months later.

The two motions are seeking what's called a Frank's hearing, which would allow the defense team to present evidence that law enforcement made false statements in an affidavit that ultimately led to Allen's arrest in October 2022.

A 'legal disaster': Delphi murder case, marred by delays and endless fights

Allen is facing four murder charges for the deaths of Abigail "Abby" Williams and Liberty "Libby" German. The Delphi teens were last seen hiking on the Monon High Bridge on Feb. 13, 2017. Their bodies were found the next day. Allen, who worked at a local pharmacy, was arrested and charged more than five years later.

Officers transport murder suspect Richard Allen during a hearing regarding sealed documents, Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2022, at Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Ind.

Officers transport murder suspect Richard Allen during a hearing regarding sealed documents, Tuesday, Nov. 22, 2022, at Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi, Ind.
ALEX MARTIN/JOURNAL AND COURIER
The case has been marred by controversies, delays and endless fights. Allen's attorneys have accused Gull of being biased against them by "maligning" them and calling them "incompetent," "negligent" and "sloppy." Last month, Gull rejected another attempt by the defense team to persuade her to step down from the case, saying adverse rulings "do not support a reasonable basis for questioning the Court's impartiality, nor are they grounds for disqualification."

Evidence leak, suicide, Odinists: Inside 'bizarre' Delphi murders case

Several other pending motions on critical issues, including what evidence can and cannot be presented to the jury, are set for hearings from July 30 to Aug. 1 in Carroll County.

Allen's trial is set to begin in October and is expected to last more than a month.
Months later in the way of Baldwin and Rozzi. I don't know how anyone can't see their incompetence. Yeah we will go meet him several months after appointed for the first time. Send a gopher with evidence that panics him we have not read ourselves. Etc.

I am not even trying to be whatever about it, it is so blatantly obvious with these defense attorneys and it has been obvious time after time after time.

I'm also not surprised one bit about the decision.
 
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So how to make a long story short.

I thought I've seen all of Tom's and I make a point to generally but it's also hard and I have little time.

Last few days YT is throwing up when I refresh like one channel i subscribed to if I'm lucky, it was down to like three now, one at most if any, the rest are adds and maybe one new channel which I'm not looking for. Refreshed a few times and nothing Sundays are a day for my cooking channels, I get home and they all have a show, they were not even coming up.

So in tooling around I went to my subscriber list and that wasn't an easy route and then I recalled back some time ago I added some shows to the watch list and I never use that part but there was noting on then plus I had little time so I added them to a watch list.

I finally found it and there was one of Tom's it appears I did not watch. Sometimes I start them over so it's hard to tell, just to get a link or rehear something but this one appeared unwatched by me.

So since nothing was coming up, I started listening. One thing he is really great about is he always covers the new filings in the first part of the show and then all the chat and discussion after so if all you want to see are the filings, his take, etc. it's usually at most half an hour and sometimes less and that's what this one is 1/2 hour. The discussions and chat are usually pretty good and so I always watch them and have to find the time but if someone can't, the court filings are always first and never that long.

He is no attorney, etc. but his take is always pretty good. Some may disagree and agree with things he points out. Not in this one so much but I will also say he comes down hard on Gull and NM as much as the defense. It's one reason I like him. He does lean towards RA's guilt BUT is not convinced.

Anyhow this was a GOOD watch on the defense filings. I have to go to bed at least one night for a few hours to make i through and have an early day tomorrow or I have a lot more to say. This is also before the prosecution responded where we learned there were confessions to the warden and more for sure.

It's well worth the 31 minutues or thereabouts. @Tresir you may not sure about anyone else but I wouldn't point you wrong, i think it's a half hour well spent.

He points out so many contradictions by the defense in their claims over times and you name it. And getting dates wrong and more in the usual way. Not trying even to pick on the D, there's good and serious questions here and for not being an attorney, just as we all are not, he sees a lot and questions it. I don't even agree with every take he ever has.

It's very interesting and informative. And again very much points out they well you said this then, and this now, and etc. And a fair amount about the confessions and time frame and more.

Imo.

I'll leave my take out of it. I think it's worth a watch for everyone. And I can't believe I missed it.

 
So how to make a long story short.

I thought I've seen all of Tom's and I make a point to generally but it's also hard and I have little time.

Last few days YT is throwing up when I refresh like one channel i subscribed to if I'm lucky, it was down to like three now, one at most if any, the rest are adds and maybe one new channel which I'm not looking for. Refreshed a few times and nothing Sundays are a day for my cooking channels, I get home and they all have a show, they were not even coming up.

So in tooling around I went to my subscriber list and that wasn't an easy route and then I recalled back some time ago I added some shows to the watch list and I never use that part but there was noting on then plus I had little time so I added them to a watch list.

I finally found it and there was one of Tom's it appears I did not watch. Sometimes I start them over so it's hard to tell, just to get a link or rehear something but this one appeared unwatched by me.

So since nothing was coming up, I started listening. One thing he is really great about is he always covers the new filings in the first part of the show and then all the chat and discussion after so if all you want to see are the filings, his take, etc. it's usually at most half an hour and sometimes less and that's what this one is 1/2 hour. The discussions and chat are usually pretty good and so I always watch them and have to find the time but if someone can't, the court filings are always first and never that long.

He is no attorney, etc. but his take is always pretty good. Some may disagree and agree with things he points out. Not in this one so much but I will also say he comes down hard on Gull and NM as much as the defense. It's one reason I like him. He does lean towards RA's guilt BUT is not convinced.

Anyhow this was a GOOD watch on the defense filings. I have to go to bed at least one night for a few hours to make i through and have an early day tomorrow or I have a lot more to say. This is also before the prosecution responded where we learned there were confessions to the warden and more for sure.

It's well worth the 31 minutues or thereabouts. @Tresir you may not sure about anyone else but I wouldn't point you wrong, i think it's a half hour well spent.

He points out so many contradictions by the defense in their claims over times and you name it. And getting dates wrong and more in the usual way. Not trying even to pick on the D, there's good and serious questions here and for not being an attorney, just as we all are not, he sees a lot and questions it. I don't even agree with every take he ever has.

It's very interesting and informative. And again very much points out they well you said this then, and this now, and etc. And a fair amount about the confessions and time frame and more.

Imo.

I'll leave my take out of it. I think it's worth a watch for everyone. And I can't believe I missed it.


What !!!! It's saying it's unavailable to me. That's never happened before.
 
What !!!! It's saying it's unavailable to me. That's never happened before.
YT or that particular video?

They're throwing up all ads and people I don't watch as the few options to me lately. Meaning ads in as a YT video as one of the things to watch like a Walmart paid one and other things. Normally I get one odd one and five shows suggested that I am subscribed to, or four with one, new being "suggested". Not lately.

I've never used other option I just refresh for new stuff on the main page but now I'm looking at the tab of my subscription so I can see what is new to me from those I watch. Not impressed with their new thing with this.

As for unavailable to you, no idea? Maybe try to find it directly instead of using the link?

He's live right now with Delphi. I rarely catch a live but had an early day and was home just after 5. Not typical too often. Even so I have a lot to do and can't focus on it like I'd like. Waiting for a realtor call and making notes. Catching up a bit here and wiped. On my 4th day in of the all over the place schedule and last two days have been early mornings. I did hear an interesting comment or two in chat though and the one that stands out the most is that WE SHOULD KNOW if ALLEN has a major alibi, the defense would have shared it. I thought that was a GOOD POINT. Been a few others too.
 
RA and the D were DENIED by the IN Supreme Court. Heading for bed, had a nap, woke up, ate something and heading back to bed. I haven't watched it, I just see the headline and no time to look up the news or I won't get to sleep but a head's up.

Gull STAYS as to the ISC.

 
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Imo this is a must watch. It's about one of and more of the worst online trolls in this case and even how some other nastiest ones are ones that were so sure that people like RL is the perp and so on and more. And how nasty they get. But it is also about how victim's families are affected and how they just came out with family pics of Libby smiling when under a sealed case and having to stay silent. The woman is bent on RL being guilty, the worst one. Tom has a lot to say here as to dealing with her/them.

And a recent Murder Sheet Podcast that shows how the defense is aligning with internet people, trolls, etc.

Even if you've never been sold on Tom, listen to him about all this. She's a Reddit, Twitter, etc. threatening person and she and one other believe RL to be the perp.

It's short, but a lot in it. He is really GIVING IT.

I feel for the families in this case sooooo much. It has gone BEYOND.

 
Boy I had a few minutes left when I posted that and he ended with family members of both girls and how this case is about Abby and Libby and justice for them, he said it better than that or I can. And not about this hijacked sh*t online with people doing what they are doing and arguing and more. Not once in this video does he eve hesitate to think about what he wants to say. Sooooo very well said.
 
RA and the D were DENIED by the IN Supreme Court. Heading for bed, had a nap, woke up, ate something and heading back to bed. I haven't watched it, I just see the headline and no time to look up the news or I won't get to sleep but a head's up.

Gull STAYS as to the ISC.


I listened to the few minutes Scott had on this and if I am following correctly, one reason is the defense kept filing motions with Gull after asking for recusal. Have to get ready for work and no time to look more into it but that's how I took it or part of the reason. They didn't waste much time in a decision either imo.

And sooooo I'd say the D had better be readying themselves for next week's motion hearing and trial coming up shortly thereafter. Will they though...
 

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