LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Plea deal - usually involves pleading guilty to certain charges and having others dropped. You still will get whatever fine and/or punishment applies to whatever you agree to plead guilty on. It is still a crime that stays on your record. It does NOT drop off in 3 months.

Pre Trial Diversion - I've explained it several times.

If some youtuber is confusing the 2 they need to educate themselves.

JMO
I am not arguing as it is your state so will defer. However I must have misunderstood.
 

by: Kody Fisher
Posted: Jul 17, 2024 / 06:16 PM EST / Updated: Jul 18, 2024 / 04:59 PM EST


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Leaked conversations between attorneys close to the Delphi murders case and YouTube true crime podcasters appear to reveal the defense team’s strategies going into the suspect’s October trial.

The cohosts of “The Murder Sheet Podcast” told I-Team 8 they were given thousands of messages from the group chat that spanned several months.

‘”We were quite surprised to see that people closely affiliated with the defense team were in such extensive contact with internet sleuths because previously this case was derailed by a leak,” said cohost Aine Cain said.

Richard Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

According to screenshots obtained by Cain and cohost Kevin Greenlee, the group chat was called “Due Process Gang.” It consisted of Cara Wieneke, a lawyer who represented Allen in the fight to keep his attorneys on the case, an attorney representing Allen’s attorneys, and several YouTubers who talk about true crime cases that include the Delphi murders.

Cain said, “The reason our source did this is because he became very concerned about the level of contact between internet folks and people who are affiliated with the defense team.”

Wieneke told I-Team 8 that the group chat was filled with people who love true crime as she does. They talked about cases happening across the country. She claims the screenshots were obtained illegally.

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Wieneke shared a statement with I-Team 8.

“Recently, out of revenge a person who knew the password of one of my friends accessed her X account and copied all of her private conversations. He gave those conversations to Murder Sheet, who read some of them aloud on recent episodes. The conversations were blended together, and the messages were read out of order and out of context. Their purpose? To make it seem like we were “hired” by Allen’s defense team to sway public opinion. We were not.”
Cain and Greenlee said some of the messages in the group chat bring up ethical concerns of potential jury tampering, particularly when Wieneke and the others talk about giving YouTube internet sleuths surveys filled out by potential jurors so they can do background investigations on them.

Cain said, “Where this becomes uncomfortable is when you’re bringing in internet sleuths who are not even from Indiana to do this with zero training. I think even if they’re signing things like NDAs (nondisclosure agreements), that should give people pause because, in the Delphi case especially, internet sleuths do not have the best reputation as far as ethics or not harassing people.”

Wieneke said, “I expressed doubt that the defense would have time to vet hundreds of jurors before the May trial date. A friend offered her help. I said I would let the defense team know. I did. They said no. That is not jury tampering.”

“The Murder Sheet Podcast” told I-Team 8 that the group chat also revealed the strategy of the defense team by talking specifically about how they plan to discredit the ballistics expert who matched the bullet found at the scene with Allen’s gun.

Wineke pushed back on that assessment as well. “I did not reveal that strategy; the defense revealed it on page 2 of their press release before the gag order. They revealed it again in their ballistics motion. They revealed it repeatedly in their court filings.”

Allen was scheduled to be back in court beginning July 30 for three days of hearings.
 
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I am not arguing as it is your state so will defer. However I must have misunderstood.
I don't even recall it said but then it's been a heckuva a week.

I thought the ISC decision was new news too so that's on me iif it wasn't.

I am watching someone make something she calls chili and it's not. Irritating (I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to chili) but I like her most of the time lol. And just getting up, no coffee yet, lost a fair part of my day of but needed the sleep. And I can't even start thinking of all I need to do today yet.

MW imo will get himself in trouble again. I'd rest assured on that. it's my opinion anyhow. All this sh*t is affecting the case and the families and while unfair, the trial is what matters. And ya know the D needs his help and that of all the others as they can't get anything right even with it, none of them. That may sound mean but it's true time after time after time. OR the ISC is wrong and in that case it's politics and b.s. going on affecting justice. However, it is not just the ISC, nor Gull, we have our own eyes and they file ridiculous things.

They are so desperate to have all thrown out that I have to almost wonder what the P has we don't know of.

So are they going to go to hearings this week and do a prepared job or attempt what next? I almost have to laugh at the thought that they can. Honestly just once i'd like to see them appear as real lawyers.

The ding dong thing really did it for me. I mean I already held that opinion but that one took the "cake" so to speak. Never have I heard anything so stupid in a filing in a court of law by an attorney.

And never have I felt so sorry (know I am repeating self and have said many times) for a murderous defendant of two girls who I believe to be guilty as he doesn't even have adequate attorneys. And inadequate is not even a fair word for them. MW did not pass the bar and these two and for sure the one must have paid to get a passing grade. And I'm not being sarcastic but 100% serious. The other goes along with it all so the same I'm sure.

If they are looking for fame and glory well I wouldn't call it good fame but ya know when you get done and can write a book full of errors 5 million pages and maybe make a buck? My main belief on top of that is they need to fix their failure. Their client confessed because they NEVER counseled him or were there at all.

And this case HAS been hijacked and imo it is a reason for a LOT of things, trying to put it on course.
 
I don't disagree. IMO, the families (or one of the families) need to file a civil suit against him. It would be on his record that way.
Good point. In fact, I have thought of them doing this in the case in general even with Allen. I can tell you from our case and just other cases through the years that prosecutions, investigators, etc. often advise against it until the criminal case is over. However, the statute of limitations can run on such by then, especially when cases now take ten years to try in some cases. If one looks at OJ/Nicole (I should have put her first) it's the only justice they got and last I knew nothing paid anyhow but still.

There was a case I saw years ago, on something like A &| E, cold case kind of stuff or some such, and I will never recall which case it was, that they couldn't get what they thought enough evidence or statements from the perp and so on. IF I recall it correctly and pretty sure I do on this one, they were for the family after it was untried and time went on, filing a civil suit. THERE they can't refuse to take the stand, be deposed, etc. like they can and where they don't have to testify on their own behalf like in criminal court. And it gave them the last thing they felt they needed or at least enough they felt to give it the one try and convicted him. It was used as a "tool" basically.

But also to the point you are talking, what he did to these families and yes, especially one as you say, is atrocious. These photos will come out one day at least to a jury and family will have to decide whether to stay or be in the courtroom is how it went for us, but taking them and them ending up all over the internet who would expect such. And all the resulting things that have stemmed from it as far as the case too.

This case CERTAINLY needs to get tried and done for many reasons. For me, first and foremost the family. Then, even for Allen as alien as it is for me to say such. And just because all of this stuff and even before this stuff, it has grown legs that just aren't about justice. Agendas. Whatever. But definitely SINCE the stuff even worse.

I'm certainly not attempting to argue so much as saying how I see things and I don't know that anyone can say all of it is past ridiculous at this point.

And I guess my heart bleeds for the families, it is a hard enough thing to deal with without all this other beyond okay sh*t.

I think diversion and a fine he should thank his lucky stars but the absolutely key thing here that should not be taken away from is getting this case tried and justice done.

It isn't lost on me and I'm cynical that the trial is before November. If it goes off that is. That's the cynical me. I don't know who all you have up for election even in these local courts but it does cross my mind. Bad press even... And big waves... I mean clearly they want Gull out. Perhaps even trying to show the ISC as bad guys and meanies. I may be overthinking this part but there just seems to be a major agenda using this case...

Anyhowwwww... Right or wrong, just my thoughts. It should only be about whether Allen did it, and first and foremost the slaughter of two girls, victim families should never have to go through such as this but it's becoming commonplace or will be if it continues with nothing but a fine of less than $500 which is basically pennies these days....

Coffee is hitting and with that, I had better stop.
 
I just don't see how someone can blatantly disrespect a gag order and not get a record or jail time or even a suspended sentence. He will just do it again as he does not respect the law and the courts. It is the only way to stop him doing it again. I also think all the you tubers who distributed them should be prosecuted too. What's the point of a gag order otherwise?
 
I just don't see how someone can blatantly disrespect a gag order and not get a record or jail time or even a suspended sentence. He will just do it again as he does not respect the law and the courts. It is the only way to stop him doing it again. I also think all the you tubers who distributed them should be prosecuted too. What's the point of a gag order otherwise?
I'm still confused how he got a misdemeanor conversion out of that. You would think with him sending it via the internet it would be a more serious charge.
 
I'm still confused how he got a misdemeanor conversion out of that. You would think with him sending it via the internet it would be a more serious charge.

However I look at it, these were pictures of dead children. He needs 23 years, the same as KK. Noone should be given a pass here.

This is Wieneke's explanation.

 
I just don't see how someone can blatantly disrespect a gag order and not get a record or jail time or even a suspended sentence. He will just do it again as he does not respect the law and the courts. It is the only way to stop him doing it again. I also think all the you tubers who distributed them should be prosecuted too. What's the point of a gag order otherwise?
I can't disagree. It's crazy.

The only thing can figure is with all the publicity and ridiculousness they decided this is just taking away from what really matters which is justice for the girls and the trial. If he'd gotten what was deserved, he took would probably whine to the ISC or some such. To no avail I'd assume. I think perhaps it is a just clearing of the table and focus.

He deserves worse and imo even what was admitted to is not what was going on, it was far beyond that and intentional on all parts. Jmo though.
 
I'm still confused how he got a misdemeanor conversion out of that. You would think with him sending it via the internet it would be a more serious charge.
Agree. I don't think though all courts and laws are necessarily up to speed as to internet, but regardless, it IS distribution of such.
 
However I look at it, these were pictures of dead children. He needs 23 years, the same as KK. Noone should be given a pass here.

This is Wieneke's explanation.


Imo they were ALL trying to influence and change the case and public opinion and so on and profit. You are giving certain YTers sealed info to distribute who also make off of it.

As most know, YT is my main platform and has been for a few years and I used to be wary of it like some probably still are.

I've seen the good and the bad. And imo it's like FB or anywhere (where I also was for years) good and bad exists and crop up or disappear and so on. But there are some really good ones.

I haven't seen a mess of idiocy since I forget which Summer Wells or Petito but both went off the scales. With SOME. And was very tame and responsible for the most part ever since UNTIL the O thing and leak and up UNTIL then with Delphi. Even news channels like Court TV. Now NO ONE almost will touch it with a ten foot pole. One of the highest profile cases in the country. Why imo? Because each and every one, even the good ones, got this info and were getting "leaks" throughout and were tickled to have inside info and did shows on such.

And there's some good ones that are typically seemingly responsible I'd include in that. With the O thing everyone was like running amok with it and exactly what the D wanted was happening. But that's a filing and beside what I think was continual leaking going on until caught out.

With it all done and gone and probably fear, almost ALL are silent even with even real news on the case or filings. I find it very telling. As to who received stuff, etc.

SOME even well respected ones will not touch it now with a ten foot pole despite it being again arguably one of the best known cases. Grizzly. Gray Huges, he has done one or two maybe but NOTHING like he used to to and it was his pet case. Tom has no such qualms and I am pretty sure because he did nothing.

Yeah, a deputy or something or sheriff in Florida also posted (supposedly accidentally) a picture of a dead Madeline Soto (child, 13). Nothing but a slap if that. MW is filth and so is any atty who allegedly leaves such pics lying around with a revolving door office for anyone to wander in and see confidential case info which, for the record, I'v never believed is the true story for a single moment. This was all intentional imo and for a single moment or a week or two it almost worked. Same with the O thing as some RAN WILD with it. Etc.

I agree, this is not minor stuff. It is justice affecting, total further trauma on the families of the girls and more.

You know RA and his family have chosen to stick with imo some of the worst attorneys I have ever seen in any case ever. Probably because they said let us fix this (their lack of being there for him) and put on this huge show that did get the public, YT, FB, SM going nuts and the other way and actually supporting the defense which was CRAZY, I have not forgottten it and so felt impressed UNTIL it all came out, leak and more and all have went silent. Pretty much.

This is jmo and the way I see it.

And yes, MW shared pictures of butchered, murdered DEAD MINOR children. And he gets a less than $500 fine and that's it? He EVEN admitted it. Welcome to this crazy world...
 
Imo they were ALL trying to influence and change the case and public opinion and so on and profit. You are giving certain YTers sealed info to distribute who also make off of it.

As most know, YT is my main platform and has been for a few years and I used to be wary of it like some probably still are.

I've seen the good and the bad. And imo it's like FB or anywhere (where I also was for years) good and bad exists and crop up or disappear and so on. But there are some really good ones.

I haven't seen a mess of idiocy since I forget which Summer Wells or Petito but both went off the scales. With SOME. And was very tame and responsible for the most part ever since UNTIL the O thing and leak and up UNTIL then with Delphi. Even news channels like Court TV. Now NO ONE almost will touch it with a ten foot pole. One of the highest profile cases in the country. Why imo? Because each and every one, even the good ones, got this info and were getting "leaks" throughout and were tickled to have inside info and did shows on such.

And there's some good ones that are typically seemingly responsible I'd include in that. With the O thing everyone was like running amok with it and exactly what the D wanted was happening. But that's a filing and beside what I think was continual leaking going on until caught out.

With it all done and gone and probably fear, almost ALL are silent even with even real news on the case or filings. I find it very telling. As to who received stuff, etc.

SOME even well respected ones will not touch it now with a ten foot pole despite it being again arguably one of the best known cases. Grizzly. Gray Huges, he has done one or two maybe but NOTHING like he used to to and it was his pet case. Tom has no such qualms and I am pretty sure because he did nothing.

Yeah, a deputy or something or sheriff in Florida also posted (supposedly accidentally) a picture of a dead Madeline Soto (child, 13). Nothing but a slap if that. MW is filth and so is any atty who allegedly leaves such pics lying around with a revolving door office for anyone to wander in and see confidential case info which, for the record, I'v never believed is the true story for a single moment. This was all intentional imo and for a single moment or a week or two it almost worked. Same with the O thing as some RAN WILD with it. Etc.

I agree, this is not minor stuff. It is justice affecting, total further trauma on the families of the girls and more.

You know RA and his family have chosen to stick with imo some of the worst attorneys I have ever seen in any case ever. Probably because they said let us fix this (their lack of being there for him) and put on this huge show that did get the public, YT, FB, SM going nuts and the other way and actually supporting the defense which was CRAZY, I have not forgottten it and so felt impressed UNTIL it all came out, leak and more and all have went silent. Pretty much.

This is jmo and the way I see it.

And yes, MW shared pictures of butchered, murdered DEAD MINOR children. And he gets a less than $500 fine and that's it? He EVEN admitted it. Welcome to this crazy world...
And his record will be wiped don't forget so when he does it again, it won't show on his record. He should be treated the same as a sex offender IMO.
 
And his record will be wiped don't forget so when he does it again, it won't show on his record. He should be treated the same as a sex offender IMO.
I need to get laundry in downstairs and then go back and read your linked article yet. But wanted to respond to this.

I agree. This was NOT some minor thing,. This was slaughtered minor children. One at least nude no?

One thing that scares me is I think people and the public are getting so NUMB these days. Murders every day, crimes and murders of children and SA and more, nothing even shocks any longer. And this is talked of and treated like it was just some leak of some case photos or some minor thing. NO it was NOT. It was far more than that and far WORSE than that.

I will admit I even have to stop myself sometimes and remind myself because if one follows enough crime you do get to where in every case it doesn't hit as hard as it should as a human who cares. The child ones for obvious reasons wiill always get to me.

And news etc. plays it down or does not cover it when it is something so bad but yes, he took and sent out pictures of dead children and nudity on top of it and injuries. Okay--a $400+ fine and see ya, all' is good now?

You are right. This is NOT right. Does he care about his record because he still plans on passing the bar one day and being a real atty? Couldn't help it.

I cannot emphasize enough how this bites for both sides and even Allen's side and his family and believe me I don't have much sympathy there but he does deserve at least competent counsel. And maybe they love this, who knows, and he does. I mean in a way his side and MW won... As far as HIS conviction or case. MW's. So someone o his side didn't get convicted so that's a win right? Maybe in RA's opinion. Who knows the level of what they think, he or his family, in any of this.

I can only guess it is wanted for the focus to be on the trial and get this other sh*t they keep causing out of the way. Or perhaps someone pulled some strings/paid on the local level. Gull did not have this one if I recall.

You know for B to leave the photos out if charged MAYBE (and I'd disagree this would be the type of result of doing such, a slap, a fine to B) but MW TOOK PICS of his OWN ADMISSION and DISTRIBUTED them. This is a very bad example and result for DOING SUCH A THING.

Yeah, I'd give him life. Seriously. I know some will think that's harsh but this was all a conscious decision and distibuting if not exactly child porn, child murder pics and via the big wide web.
 
in looking up stuff today I came across something that said the GSG funds are going to have to be refunded. Has anyone else seen anything on that and what the reasoning is?

I will review my history to see where I saw it.
 
in looking up stuff today I came across something that said the GSG funds are going to have to be refunded. Has anyone else seen anything on that and what the reasoning is?

I will review my history to see where I saw it.
There were remarks in tom from Hennessy. That they paid out of pocket and Gull denied reimbursement for experts and then he said something stupid like protecting self he only knew form Baldwin and Rozzi what the facts were and while Hennesy was willing there were more than 250 donors and so he didn't know how he would find all and refund it. Seriously. And then of course we came to find out B & R didn't submit proper documentation to be reimbursed or paid for such experts but he county/state.

So yeah I saw a little about something similar and apologies, it has not been my week by any means and I never did even finish watching the updates from him o the last week or so but I did see that. And it's not GFM but some other donate venue if I recall. I mean these attorneys and even the helping ones my God just look stupider and stupider. I do not like being that mean but I don't know how any can look at it otherwise. RA later would have a clear incompetent defense appeal but he knowledgeably chose them.
 
My laundry is hung and the rest in the worthless dryer. I keep getting lease agreements in email like they are on automatic send. Ha.

I added time for over an hour and fiive items still won't be dry but it is how It rolls here.
I don't even know if I can do it but I am seriously thinking of moving back home and transferring. I just can't do the night drive when night shifts, etc. but going to talk to the manager at work and see if there are options and tell her the situation.

Anyhow, still have a couple of must haves to do and get laundry out and up but haven't really had a true moment of down time in these day's off and about over.

I think most of us would agree that this case needs to be tried. What they have will be seen if it isn't squashed and a jury will decide. I try not to get overboard in opinion (I am sure some would not believe that) but these D attorneys need to be sanctioned or disbarred imo and that is talking past what I normally would. I mean even Weineke and Hennessy, wow. They DO realize do they not what dumbarses they look like? Or is it all one big game for people to feel sorry for the underdog with the not so perfect uneducated attorneys? I honestly have never seen anything like this and boy I've seen some sh*t.

Were out ever able to access Tom's? Because Hennsessy remarks on the fundraising when Tom covers the recent filings, etc. and developments in the beginning.

Neighbor just turned their music up. I just love it here. NOT.
 
My laundry is hung and the rest in the worthless dryer. I keep getting lease agreements in email like they are on automatic send. Ha.

I added time for over an hour and fiive items still won't be dry but it is how It rolls here.
I don't even know if I can do it but I am seriously thinking of moving back home and transferring. I just can't do the night drive when night shifts, etc. but going to talk to the manager at work and see if there are options and tell her the situation.

Anyhow, still have a couple of must haves to do and get laundry out and up but haven't really had a true moment of down time in these day's off and about over.

I think most of us would agree that this case needs to be tried. What they have will be seen if it isn't squashed and a jury will decide. I try not to get overboard in opinion (I am sure some would not believe that) but these D attorneys need to be sanctioned or disbarred imo and that is talking past what I normally would. I mean even Weineke and Hennessy, wow. They DO realize do they not what dumbarses they look like? Or is it all one big game for people to feel sorry for the underdog with the not so perfect uneducated attorneys? I honestly have never seen anything like this and boy I've seen some sh*t.

Were out ever able to access Tom's? Because Hennsessy remarks on the fundraising when Tom covers the recent filings, etc. and developments in the beginning.

Neighbor just turned their music up. I just love it here. NOT.
No I couldnt get it to work so I didn't get to it. I just want them to get on with the trial now. All these delays and distractions have been ridiculous.
 

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