LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

No I couldnt get it to work so I didn't get to it. I just want them to get on with the trial now. All these delays and distractions have been ridiculous.

Ditto. Totally. I have little faith thought he upcoming hearings will be without drama. I mean one learns they just won't be. But I guess we will see.

I looked for your article too to go back and read and maybe I am just overwhelmed, or video, I only found a Twitter/X link or maybe I didn't go back far enough.

I actually never finished Tom either. I can home in the midst of it live, had t on a couple of nights ago but a lot going on and I could not focused on it. I then went back and started it over the next day but till things going on and did not get far but got to the denial from the ISC, the Hennessey remarks and a bit more. And then life interfered. I always do eventually watch all of his so I likelky will later.

Darned right this thing just needs to be tried/ For ALL. First off for he girls. Second for their families. And even for RA and his family lives are likely in limbo. And definitely for the public to get a resolution so it can all stop and all move on.

It IS ridiculous and why any judge, prosecutor, defendant, anyone would not be tearing their hair out by now, well I dare anyone else t tolerate this crap.

And a real defense would be one thing but this waste of time where they have NO legal basis is ridiculous. What are they going to do now? The ISC is almost having to "teach" them and their "gang".

They need to prepare to try a REAL case in October that may not May not have all evidence in it and represent their client. Imo. Have they done that or are they still ding donging?

Yes, sarcasm but I didn't say it. They did.

 

[Tresir]

@RoundPeg

According to the Wieneke tweet, MW just needs to keep out of trouble for 3 months and his case is dismissed, so it won't be on his record according to her. This was my interpretation too. Somehow, he got special treatment.

 

[RoundPeg]

@RoundPeg

According to the Wieneke tweet, MW just needs to keep out of trouble for 3 months and his case is dismissed, so it won't be on his record according to her. This was my interpretation too. Somehow, he got special treatment.

Yes, that's the pre trial diversion program I've been talking about.

 

[Tresir]

Yes, that's the pre trial diversion program I've been talking about.

But I thought you said it would stay on his record. That's not a diversion but a dismissal. It will disappear in 3 months, or as soon as he pays the full fee.

I fully admit I just do not understand it and have never heard of it before.

 

[RoundPeg]

But I thought you said it would stay on his record. That's not a diversion but a dismissal. It will disappear in 3 months, or as soon as he pays the full fee.

I fully admit I just do not understand it and have never heard of it before.

A plea deal would stay on his record. Let me go back and I'll tag you in a post. Shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[RoundPeg]

I'm just going to concentrate on the misdemeanor charge.

Pretrial diversion is for misdemeanors and maybe a couple of low level felonies. It's based on the premise sometimes people make mistakes and deserve a 2nd chance and a clean slate. The prosecutor can offer pre trial diversion. You pay a higher fee, behave yourself for a year, and the whole thing goes away. If you screw up, you get your charges back. I'm kind of sure they can internally monitor how many pre trial diversions you have used. It isnt like you're allowed one free annual misdemeanor.

Probably 20 years ago my young daughter (at the time) got a speeding ticket in her college town. Being an ex insurance agent, I called the court house and asked if they had pre trial diversion for her ticket. Her record was clean, so I anted up the higher fee. It was cheaper than her surcharged insurance would have been.

Basically, its a legal do over as long as you behave yourself.

@Tresir

 

[Tresir]

@Tresir

Yeah thanks for reminding me. Your example is for a very minor infringement disappearing after a year. I did read that at the time and fully understood that but 1) this is not a low level misdemeanour but a grade A misdemeanour (isn't that just below a felony?) and 2) they are getting rid of it as soon as he pays the rest of the fee. He took pictures of dead young girls, one of whom was naked with her throat cut and spread them over the internet, victimising the relatives all over again.

I just don't get how it even qualifies. Also, the guy is a fully grown adult male at least 30 years old, who committed a serious offence, not some young teen who makes a silly driving mistake.

Not only that but he seriously implicated others in his criminal act, one of whom had a wife and young child and killed himself rather than be dishonourably discharged when it was discovered.

IMO he should be treated like the adult he is and he should get sentenced for it, have a plea deal with a suspended sentence at the very least, that he would have to serve if he offends again. He should go on the SO register too.

Ok, I think I have probably said it all now. Sorry to go on about it.

 

[RoundPeg]

Yeah thanks for reminding me. Your example is for a very minor infringement disappearing after a year. I did read that at the time and fully understood that but 1) this is not a low level misdemeanour but a grade A misdemeanour (isn't that just below a felony?) and 2) they are getting rid of it as soon as he pays the rest of the fee. He took pictures of dead young girls, one of whom was naked with her throat cut and spread them over the internet, victimising the relatives all over again.

I just don't get how it even qualifies. Also, the guy is a fully grown adult male at least 30 years old, who committed a serious offence, not some young teen who makes a silly driving mistake.

Not only that but he seriously implicated others in his criminal act, one of whom had a wife and young child and killed himself rather than be dishonourably discharged when it was discovered.

IMO he should be treated like the adult he is and he should get sentenced for it, have a plea deal with a suspended sentence at the very least, that he would have to serve if he offends again. He should go on the SO register too.

Ok, I think I have probably said it all now. Sorry to go on about it.

Yes, that is the highest grade misdemeanor. Our law does say misdemeanors can be ran through the pre trial diversion program if the prosecutor decides to offer it. It's entirely possible time limits have been legally changed since my daughter got her ticket. That was a minute or so ago. I agree that it seems odd this was charged as a misdemeanor. Under the program, age doesn't matter, the level of the crime does.

I personally know a man who picked his wife up around the throat and hurled her through a door. He was charged with misdemeanor battery. He went through the diversion program.

So while it isnt always fair, honestly the majority of the time it works.

As for the suicide, while I feel bad for the family, that guy made the decision to kill himself. 10 to 1, there was more lurking in his mental health than anyone knew. He was a grown adult, too. IMO

I still maintain MW needs to be slapped with a civil suit.

 

[Tresir]

Yes, that is the highest grade misdemeanor. Our law does say misdemeanors can be ran through the pre trial diversion program if the prosecutor decides to offer it. It's entirely possible time limits have been legally changed since my daughter got her ticket. That was a minute or so ago. I agree that it seems odd this was charged as a misdemeanor. Under the program, age doesn't matter, the level of the crime does.

I personally know a man who picked his wife up around the throat and hurled her through a door. He was charged with misdemeanor battery. He went through the diversion program.

So while it isnt always fair, honestly the majority of the time it works.

As for the suicide, while I feel bad for the family, that guy made the decision to kill himself. 10 to 1, there was more lurking in his mental health than anyone knew. He was a grown adult, too. IMO

I still maintain MW needs to be slapped with a civil suit.

Civil suits cost money and the judge may think that if it wasn't considered serious enough for him to even have a custodial sentence or even a record then it likely wouldn't succeed IMO.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm with Tresir on this. What he did is AWFUL. And can't a judge go against such a decision if he thinks it's more serious and doesn't deserve diversion. I get what he was charged with is applicable or can be and he should have been charged more seriously but they have to go with what laws fit what they have evidence for I guess. I don't like it one bit.

I'm also going to guess the year is the norm and he got a light three months. You seem not to be entirely sure on that, if it has changed, meaning do all now in such get three months? I think in return for such a favor, the should have to behave at least a year. Three months is a joke.

I'm not disagreeing with you either, I'm disagreeing with what was done here.

I agree on the suing civilly too. They've got quite a case for that imo.

I can only guess as I said prior prosecutors went along with this because the trial is the bigger thing, or do they have no say? They must, they are the deal makers.

You had to call and knew of it so that's great you got that for your daughter for a very unserious crime. So does that mean everyone charged with these lower things do NOT get diversion necessarily and they don't if they don't know to ask for it?

AND can a judge go against it? They can generally against any plea agreement, not that most choose to. Because if so, I need to look back or find the judge's name again because it starts me an opinion of this one. Pretty positive it was not with Gull and was some other name. Right?

Diversion for this man and act is a joke. And a less than $500 and three months of clean behavior or not getting caught is a BIGGER joke.

And while it may seem harsh, I think she's right and I never would have thought of it as being on the SO list too. He was distributing to the world wide web a picture of at least one girl NAKED and dead.

The guy who suicided if true and not saying it isn't of course, but how would we know, little shared on it, did make up his own mind to take his life if true. However, it still is related to the same kinds of acts and but for MW he wouldn't have even HAD these photos and then would he be alive today... So there's that way of looking at that...

You know I made the choice of not watching when the autopsy pics of my granddaughter were shown, I did stay, I just did not look. I was not going to a miss a moment of anything in that courtroom unless no choice. It was a hard decision, wasn't even sure if I wanted to listen. I don't want those images in my head, I have enough of her on life support and my brothers and dad's final breaths, etc. There for all.

But if all of a sudden one day I got ion the internet or on some show and SAW one of her autopsy photos, I'd be livid, beyond emotional, and more. So in some respects I feel I can identify with how bad this was and how the family would feel. And this is beyond, with nudity, cut necks and more, not that our murder wasn't but just saying these were not autopsy photos EVEN.

I of course am not yelling at you, you seem to even agree on much of this or that he should have been charged harsher, etc.

And thank you for bringing forward or telling of how it works again and so on.

You might not agree with this one but I feel this was intentional and the start of it was at LEAST Baldwin. It's a great story to keep him just looking negligent and keeping his license but to me it's pretty obvious what it really was, plus MW went from being just a friend to working for them and the story changed.

I do think it is way ridiculous this deal for what he did. And I think I'll yell about it in any chat I'm in and about that he should be on an SO list. I hope someone petitions. Seriously. Or bigger noise than anything I or any of us could do gets made about it.

I guess they hope three months keeps leaks and more sh*t like this from happening until trial is over and if that's the reason for the length of time, I hope it means this trial will proceed although I don't think anyone can assure that based on such. I just don't see why they did it or even charged him so light.

I mean I never even thought of Tresir's point, shouldn't he be charged with possession of CP? IF any are nudes. And Id suspect some probably are. They'd maybe put a cover on at some point on parts or something but first for evidence you need the entire shot, etc.

If they are not and it does not qualify as CP then for sure there needs to be a law about distributing of dead MINORSL And when sealed, etc. it is way off base. I also think Baldwin should have got some consequence. You don't leave things like that in a law office and leave people alone or to wander. Reported to ethics and the Bar at least. You know for all they try to take Gull of and ruin her career to imo, they certainly get off light with their own antics.

I'll stop because I am not trying to cause any argument and know you don't agree or at least didn't used to. No idea.

Finally, and I had one "finally" and now I can't recall it. Oh well drawing a blank. I can mention later if I think of it but I did think of another thing. You know it would "appear" no one too much distributed them or that's what of course we are supposed to think and that most content creators, etc. admitted to having them if they did, and so on, but there's no assurance at all they weren't shared with a friend by email, sent to a subscriber, another creator and so on. These pictures may well still exist although most claimed to get rid of them and such. And I'd guess the cops couldn't necessarily do warrants for everyone's systems and go through them all if the people didn't "ask" for them, I'd kind of like to know. Maybe this is not over maybe investigating ist still being done even on MW with regard to it, and others. I mean maybe they went with the easiest quickest charge for the time being,...

Maybe this was that final thought, that and that the families could still run into them one day.

Oh I know what it was. I am a full believer in open and public records, hearings, trials, etc. And I don't DOUBT that people can obtain autopsy photos, crime scene photos through FOIA etc. even after the fact and so sadly even ours could be obtained probably but maybe when it comes to minors, there needs to be some kind of restraint with this, I don't know. I do believe in totally open records but like in Gannon's case too, someone got a hold of them and she has never recovered from the HE77 she got for sharing them. She did in on her paid subscriber thing and I never pay to watch any YTer although a couple are so good I think about it when and if I ever get in a bit better financial situation, sell my home, etc. but NOT HER. I don't see why anyone would WANT to see such myself.

So I'm a bit torn on access AFTER as again I believe I open records. And you know when one reads like a true crime book 100 years after a murder maybe and you are not looking at someone you know and it helps you see the scene, what was done, if they looked at it right, ,try to get a feel for it and you know all family are long gone that knew the person, that's one thing. And maybe even after the case, I don't know. I just know as a family member, I wouldn't want them shown all over but I'd also not read such a book if it was showing someone I cared about.

What I'm getting at is WHAT should be the rule/law here AFTER even when it IS legal and so on? I don't think the YTer who showed Gannon's was charged with anything because they were legitimately obtained from the case file.

It's like freedom of speech and various things. I am 100 percent for it but I think it's gone with some things to a place I don't think it was necessarily meant to go.

I mean I don't even think adult porn should be something that goes on and of COURSE not CP and that's a NO NO thank God.

It's kind of going into a different subject but does relate. I don't want our autopsy pics all over but you know a lot was made law before TV, internet, etc. and of course lol so was the constitution long in existence and its amendments and so on.

But I also don't want to see if you can one thing then there starts what next and the lack of public records and openness to the public. And I'm a very huge believer in that.

I don't mind people seeing for only the reason to know what the PERP did this child so as to be under no illusions who he is, but I still don't want people looking at them or sharing them publicly or for me to ever run into such, or her mother, or any of us. Everyone did not stay to see except one sister, she felt she could take it and she's the one who I listened with and told me when I could look again and they were put away.

Long post sorry to all. Anyhow, I usually have pretty solid and strong opinions but I'm torn on this one. I AM NOT TORN though on what MW did. I'm just talking accessing them when a case is over and such. I guess maybe I feel at minimum if anyone is showing such of anyyone's case maybe there should be a warning so no one could accidentally wander in or something on that order.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Civil suits cost money and the judge may think that if it wasn't considered serious enough for him to even have a custodial sentence or even a record then it likely wouldn't succeed IMO.

I differ with you on this one. And civil suits attorneys take a third of a settlement IF they win but it ends up being more like 50 with filing fees, mileage, things like that sadly. So the family wouldn't have to pay a cent for an attorney to file one and I'm sure one would gladly take this one on easily. It doesn't work that way over there?

She's talking of suing for a money settlement for the harm to the family, etc.

I don't think it matters how minor the sentence ended up either. He ADMITTED to what he did basically, at least his version of it. The entire internet world knows what he did and those that follow the case. Other podcasters received and could be called to testify. There's PLENTY of evidence and they have a lower standard of proof in civil cases versus criminal cases.

The families would not have to pay a dime and an attorney only takes them on if they could win, not a dime unless a settlement of money is reached OR a jury orders one if goes all the way to trial. That's how it works here.

The thing is MW May not have a pot to pee in for $$$ to pay it but he would owe it forever and if makes any money, etc. or owns assets he can be garnished, ordered to sell and pay, etc. to a point.

The cases with the best chance of getting the settlement are ones where one can bring in the wrongdoer's insurance company. That would be debatable here, he's no attorney, wouldn't have malpractice insurance, his homeowners wouldn't apply, no one was killed at or fell at his home, auto insurance wouldn't apply, it was not a car accident. BUT the judgment would affect his credit and finances forever until paid.

Other reasons for them, and I don't think at least Libby's grandparents need the money, and I don't think Anna does either, but because it is DESERVED he go through such, and also you know how they don't have to testify like if they are on trial for murder or something, like RA doesn't have to take the stand or even speak at sentencing or ever, in a civil case they DO. THey can be deposed, called to the stand, you name it. MW would have to answer every single thing asked. Granted he is not the murderer here but he IS the perp as to the photos. So I don't mean to mix you up If I did that here. I'm just talking even if you file wrongful death civilly like against RA, the same would go on, and he'd HAVE to answer questions, etc. and most attorneys take them for free and pay all the costs until and if they win a settlement and then they take their cut.

It is a great move imo to file one. Now most are advised not to do such until after the criminal trial. My daughter was advised that and did wait but you have to watch that the statute of limitations does not run. You only have three years, it's not like murder with none but that can go by the last date of I'm not sure what, like maybe even the criminal trial makes the statute not run until it's done, not sure. Or they file a notice of intent to do so, just so a case gets started but not really started to cover that and not have the statute run. As we know, sadly some cases take a lot longer than three years to finally go to trial.

My daughter could have filed one whether he was found guilty or not. The proof, etc. and bar is not the same nor the bar is high. There's plenty of evidence against MW including his own admissions for the families to do this. Doesn't matter what kind of deal he got. They are completely different kinds of cases/beasts.

I hope this makes some kind of sense to you.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Even IF the families never saw a single picture or were hurt that way, hearing all this, knowing they are and were, even what it did to the case, how it affected them, any and all of that can be considered. I think a fair jury would award a TON. And again they wouldn't do it about the money imo but because it SHOULD BE DONE TO HIM.

They wont' have to pay a cent until a settlement comes in. And if MW is ordered to pay and not settlement comes because he doesn't have the funds, the family nor the atty gets paid yet.

It's about the only kind of case over here you can actually fight for yourself or what's right even if you don't have money for an attorney.

I'm also going to say one more thing in case this confuses, NOT all civil court and suits are for money damages. Well a ton are but I mean you could go to civil court to get your neighbor's dog from coming onto your lawn and peeing on it. Just to get an order from a judge and not even seek money. THAT kind attorneys don't take without being paid first. This kind they do. In fact, that's what a majority go for because it's huge money for them if they win a settlement versus attorneys who are only paid say theiir $300 hourly rate for divorce, getting you out of DUI or trying to, etc.

THey have a VERY CLEAR CASE here and I hope they do it. I'd guess they will wait until after trial IF trial goes off. And I HOPE they do it although the last thing they probably want is more to deal with and another trial, suit, etc. He DESERVES it.

My daughter did one, after, and I'm not going to share too much, but I too worked in and around insurance for 20 years, was the job for most of my life as an adult. He owned a home and such but also knew he likely put his attorney on it and spent a lot because he or he and his parents paid for a private defense. I KNEW of an insurance case that then went to a lawsuit where before the insurance company could have never been involved too easily because it was a suicide in their own home. And he was not someone who got hurt at their home that was some stranger that slipped on their icy sidewalk so to speak. He was an INSURED and an INSURED can't use their own insurance company for suiciding, nor his wife. But she did. And she WON.

I knew of this from years and years before.

Now there were some more complexities to theirs which made it was he an insured or not and some other things. I think they settled actually, not even sure any longer.

So in our case, I believe daughter was told at first she could use him but not his homeowners. I KNEW there was a good change our victim could be argued not to be an insured because she did NOT live with him, there had never been a custody agreement or anything else. She was hurt at HIS home. Granted by him, but liability in homeowners only pays for a guest, etc., someone not "an insured" (basically a family member who lives there). I explained it to her, she told the law firm she was talking to and they took it and took off with it. So what that means is the insurance company may also end up having to pay and if the one you are suing doesn't have enough money or any, you have the limits at least of the policy to go after and sometimes awards go even past that.

I probably shared too much but anyhow in A & L's case, I don't think MW's insurance of any kind would apply. I guess they took could try something creative like I first saw in what I just described from the woman long before. It wasn't even the same as ours at all but because I knew what an insured was considered in an insurance policy, I knew our victim was NOT an insured necessarily. It was not HER home.

I am probably confusing you but I think some would follow it. Hard being you are UK I'm sure to understand it all. I am actually curious how such things work there as to civil cases, and such, and attorneys being paid for them and so on. Because it must not be the same or youl'd know it would not be expensive for the families. They'd only have to split the settlement with their lawyer IF he wins one and not until after.

Not to brag, but my knowing that was something the attorneys didn't. But only because I saw such a case where I worked and knew what the outcome was. I forget how they argued it but they were divorcing, she was fooling around and he suicided himself when being told of both. I don't recall if her attorneys based it on they weren't together any longer and he wasn't an insured any longer or what, I can't recall. Perhaps he wasn't living there any more and he'd been told awhile before that, I forget.

To put it more simply. If someone who lives me like a child, falls at my home, my insurance company does not have to pay because my child is partt of the "insured" family who lives there. IF she lives there. If however, the mailman delivers a package to my door or my neighbor is over for a party and hurts themselves falling or some such, or even ends up dead, my insurance company can be used as they are NOT an insured and they do have to help pay for it if proven. Even WITHOUT going to court, sometimes they just make a settlement and reach an agreement and no one uses.

I probably shouldn't have added this post because it kind of relates but not totally and probably only confuses more.

I'm just saying I think most likely the families could only sue MW and not bring in any insurance company of his for bigger money than he has, etc. This didn't happen at his home (well it did in a way so I wonder about something creative there, probably a reach though), it didn't involve a car accident to sue the car insurance, etc. He is not as we know an attorney so can't sue malpractice insurance.

They could though try to maybe bring in Baldwin. It is again a far lower standard of proof and if he has any sense, he has malpractice insurance, most attys. do, perhaps even have to. Just on his negligence even...

@RoundPeg If you worked around insurance as you said, maybe even still do, not asking but said you did, you are probably following these posts pretty well and what I mean.

And I agree with you, they definitely should file such. I do think they'd have been advised to wait until after but it still is their choice. Most aren't going to go against LE or prosecutor's recommendations. After trial I mean. They've got at least a couple of years yet of statute time if not more.

I'm going to raise this idea in chats too elsewhere. However, that will be few as I almost never hit a live show any longer and that's the only time you can chat. One can post below though after...

I'd hope and imagine the families have already been advised on this. By someone on the P team or an attorney, etc.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Darn it. Had no idea it was so late. Or early. Just looked after finishing those. Nowhere near ready for bed. The only thing about getting home at 9 or 10. You get your stuff off, shoes FIRST, can't wait, and you blink and it's after midnight. While I don't mind the late shifts, I don't like having to go back in the very next morning just less than 12 hours later, and one has to get up earlier than that to make it. I'm not a young employee but maybe I SHOULD go back to office and the insurance thing. Not the only one I have experience in either. It wasn't a sales job either and even the side of it I worked was not an ins. agy. However 20 years in it.

Man I can't believe it's almost 1:30. There's just a handful of hours sleep as I like three hours at least of time before heading to work. And I'm not sleepy yet. Bites.

Only bright side is I get done at I think 5, would have to look and the following day I don't have to get there until 1 p.,m. so then I gain some time and more than 12 hours in between shifts.

Wanted to catch up on this one and all. And the whole civil suit thing say I wholly agree with. He won't get sentenced but his life will be affected until paid off. The man already could very well be paid in cash so that would make it harder but again he'd have no credit and a debt and any income could be garnished, etc.

 

[Tresir]

I differ with you on this one. And civil suits attorneys take a third of a settlement IF they win but it ends up being more like 50 with filing fees, mileage, things like that sadly. So the family wouldn't have to pay a cent for an attorney to file one and I'm sure one would gladly take this one on easily. It doesn't work that way over there?

She's talking of suing for a money settlement for the harm to the family, etc.

I don't think it matters how minor the sentence ended up either. He ADMITTED to what he did basically, at least his version of it. The entire internet world knows what he did and those that follow the case. Other podcasters received and could be called to testify. There's PLENTY of evidence and they have a lower standard of proof in civil cases versus criminal cases.

The families would not have to pay a dime and an attorney only takes them on if they could win, not a dime unless a settlement of money is reached OR a jury orders one if goes all the way to trial. That's how it works here.

The thing is MW May not have a pot to pee in for $$$ to pay it but he would owe it forever and if makes any money, etc. or owns assets he can be garnished, ordered to sell and pay, etc. to a point.

The cases with the best chance of getting the settlement are ones where one can bring in the wrongdoer's insurance company. That would be debatable here, he's no attorney, wouldn't have malpractice insurance, his homeowners wouldn't apply, no one was killed at or fell at his home, auto insurance wouldn't apply, it was not a car accident. BUT the judgment would affect his credit and finances forever until paid.

Other reasons for them, and I don't think at least Libby's grandparents need the money, and I don't think Anna does either, but because it is DESERVED he go through such, and also you know how they don't have to testify like if they are on trial for murder or something, like RA doesn't have to take the stand or even speak at sentencing or ever, in a civil case they DO. THey can be deposed, called to the stand, you name it. MW would have to answer every single thing asked. Granted he is not the murderer here but he IS the perp as to the photos. So I don't mean to mix you up If I did that here. I'm just talking even if you file wrongful death civilly like against RA, the same would go on, and he'd HAVE to answer questions, etc. and most attorneys take them for free and pay all the costs until and if they win a settlement and then they take their cut.

It is a great move imo to file one. Now most are advised not to do such until after the criminal trial. My daughter was advised that and did wait but you have to watch that the statute of limitations does not run. You only have three years, it's not like murder with none but that can go by the last date of I'm not sure what, like maybe even the criminal trial makes the statute not run until it's done, not sure. Or they file a notice of intent to do so, just so a case gets started but not really started to cover that and not have the statute run. As we know, sadly some cases take a lot longer than three years to finally go to trial.

My daughter could have filed one whether he was found guilty or not. The proof, etc. and bar is not the same nor the bar is high. There's plenty of evidence against MW including his own admissions for the families to do this. Doesn't matter what kind of deal he got. They are completely different kinds of cases/beasts.

I hope this makes some kind of sense to you.

Yes it does make sense and we do have it here "no win, no fee" and that is a good point it would hold him responsible for his act in a different way. I hadn't even thought of that and they could sue B too while they are at it for having them laying around for all or any Tom, Dick or Harry to see, photograph, whatever. Hopefully they will do it after the trial.

ETA GO TO BED...... !!!!

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yes it does make sense and we do have it here "no win, no fee" and that is a good point it would hold him responsible for his act in a different way. I hadn't even thought of that and they could sue B too while they are at it for having them laying around for all or any Tom, Dick or Harry to see, photograph, whatever. Hopefully they will do it after the trial.

ETA GO TO BED...... !!!!

I need to go to bed and then see a new post by you and just never get to talk to anyone in current time lol.

Yes, I think they could bring Baldwin in, possibly even Rozzi. B for sure.

I am glad you understood it.

I know of it but wasn't even thinking of it until RP's mention. Kind of like you said, hadn't thought of it. And then it's like oh yes. It bites in he woudln't get more criminal consequences BUT it would be trouble for him and a settlement to pay off which he may never even have a hope of doing, I doubt he's wealthy....?

To me, it's a pretty darned clear cut case. And they could file it now if wanted, I just know GENERALLY such is advised to wait until after trial even though he isn't the murder perp. I can tell you they have enough on their plate just with all the b.s. and years and back and forth ON the murders and trial. I'd bet it would be the last thing they'd want to add right now but no one can stop them either. They just to ensure they do it before the statute runs and again, not sure exactly what things keep it active and not running.

I need to go to bed. My God is this going to suck in probably less than a couple of hours. I can get one or two more but then I end up with an hour maybe before work and I do not like that, I need more time before getting moving.

I also just saw there's a couple other cases that have had posts but yes, I am going to have to be somewhat smart (well not as I went way too long already and skip them for now).

Anyhow, I agree with you that he should deal with more criminally but it would hold him responsible in another way and it will affect his life. As he affected theirs and imo betrayed these girls, embarrassed these girls, hurt the families and worse. RP's thinking of that, and I mean I know such can be done, just never thought of it, is good. And I'm also intrigued by your SO remark. He SPREAD child nudity. He had no right to possession so it may be evidence for the attorneys who have a right to it in their case file but HE is NOT one. I have wondered why they changed it and admitted or claimed he worked for them when at first he was just a friend.... Maybe they know such is possible. Just a thought.. Idiots. If you get my drift, so he'd have a reason as an employee to have it. STILL wouldn't have a right to spread it though. I don't think that's their reason but it is an interesting thought...

I know smart departments monitor the internet and sites. I hope the SO thing gets though about. Of course he already has made a deal but I'm not so sure the investigation is over on this. As you saw, just a thought I had earlier as well... It's all that can be done right now to get this trial through in this small area despite all the sh*t being thrown by a D who can't even spell.

I know that was low but couldn't help it. Or their "assistant" whoever that might be.

With that I am heading for bed or trying and probably will feel like the alarm goes off in ten minutes which I might actually be down to right now. Not even going to think about it or do the math. I'ts 3 a.m. and ideally before a 9 I'd like to be up by 4:30 or 5:00 by minimum. So that shows how far I push it.

Anyhow, g-night. I know it's not night there. I keep in my brain now you are six hours ahead.

 

[Tresir]

I have just seen this article about a very popular longtime BBC news reader who left the BBC last year. Well this is the reason. He was charged with having indecent images of children on his phone. I am posting this article as it is a good example of this type of offence - it says, if found guilty, he could get several years in jail.

It's interesting as a comparison with MW. I came across it as I was reading this terrible multiple stabbings of children at a dance workshop. 2 children dead and multiple injured (9 injured, 6 critical). A 17 y.o. male was detained at the scene- see second link below.

Huw Edwards charged with making indecent images of children

The former BBC News presenter will appear in court on Wednesday.

www.bbc.co.uk

Southport knife attack: Two children dead and nine injured at dance workshop

A 17-year-old male remains in custody, arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[GrandmaBear]

I have just seen this article about a very popular longtime BBC news reader who left the BBC last year. Well this is the reason. He was charged with having indecent images of children on his phone. I am posting this article as it is a good example of this type of offence - it says, if found guilty, he could get several years in jail.

It's interesting as a comparison with MW. I came across it as I was reading this terrible multiple stabbings of children at a dance workshop. 2 children dead and multiple injured (9 injured, 6 critical). A 17 y.o. male was detained at the scene- see second link below.

Huw Edwards charged with making indecent images of children

The former BBC News presenter will appear in court on Wednesday.

www.bbc.co.uk

Southport knife attack: Two children dead and nine injured at dance workshop

A 17-year-old male remains in custody, arrested on suspicion of murder and attempted murder.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think your idea that he should be an SO and charged with having CP is a good one. Maybe someone should call LE there and suggest it if they couldn't come up with a stiffer charge, they should look into it... And they are indecent images here too, very, although not sure if called such here. Laws would be different too but one was of a NUDE dead child.

Hey when are these hearings again, they are any day here now aren't they? I think they might be on my days off (Thu, Fri)?

 

[Tresir]

They are today, tomorrow and Thursday.

Three court hearings could change outcome of Delphi murders case

Three court hearings starting in Carroll County on Tuesday could forever change the outcome of the Delphi murders case

www.wishtv.com

 

[GrandmaBear]

They are today, tomorrow and Thursday.

Three court hearings could change outcome of Delphi murders case

Three court hearings starting in Carroll County on Tuesday could forever change the outcome of the Delphi murders case

www.wishtv.com

And no news really. MS I go back and forth on and they are just talking heads kind of things here. Is anyone present or sharing? The arguments, etc.? Or sealed or some such?

And educated guess is that it hasn't been nicey nicey.

So I will be off on the last day but apparently no one is watching, tweeting or sharing anyhow... Or can't. No surprise at all that rulings will likely not come until later. That doesn't bother me or surprise me but the lack of at least people being able to be there and report does.

Thank you for the info. I knew I had at least one day off during it but couldn't recall exactly and though they go through August 1st or some such and apparently they do.

 

[Tresir]

Ok I am posting this because it is a three part exposee by Murder Sheet about what has been going on. Reading the Reddit comments gives an idea but it sounds really unethical to me. As we are not going to be able to follow this 3 day court session we may want to look at these episodes while we are waiting.