LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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So jury selection is part of the month and not ahead of it or so it sounds.

I did hear of this not here but elsewhere. Interesting that their client does not want to be there and they want him not there. Do they expect the jury to walk over that bridge because I would not so they won't have that perspective.... I am sure he does not want to be seen walking across it by the jury...

Well, at least defense so far is not trying to delay again, just throwing in more trouble for the county, court, etc. and jury. It is really getting down to the wire now but I am not going on faith a kink won't be thrown. We were hopeful the last time and I am sure the families were beyond that and majorly upset.

Maybe a dumb thought but if they want to show it couldn't have been RA well then bring him.... But nope.

AT l;east it seems like they are looking at a defense and going forward without their crazy one.... I suspect the point will be to try to show one man could not have done this in the time allotted and I don't buy that for a minute but seriously what are they going to do to give real aspects, make the jurors cross the bridge...?? I think if RA had to cross that bridge, the comparisons that would result would show it certainly could have been and was him. Jmo. So of course they waive him going. Plus perhaps he would get all excited... And either show it or confess again...

I am NOT going to quit following this one. Count on it.

I have little faith in the news coverage we will get but will look to Tom, Aspen, etc.

I am SO anticipating all we do not know. What his wife said in interviews and so much more. So much more. There is sooo much we do not know. One side stayed buttoned up and the other tried to use that.

Jmo. I probably should not offer it. Just a few weeks now!!!
With the jury i am wondering if they will use the ones they already selected for the May trial. Is that likely?

Also, hopefully we can watch the videos nightly of those you mention who are actually attending for reporting purpose.

Will we get to see the court visiting the trails or will it all be closed down?
 
Indeed, key locations have changed and besides that, I wouldn't think October looks anything like February.
It is just defense doing the last things they can do, hurdles, etc. and they don't want RA there. Totally agree. It is all different. Imo they need to fill the month long time they insisted was needed for trial for one thing. What else do they have? it also seems to be a defense thing these days. In Murdaugh imo going to the scene probably helped give the actual distances and locations etc. It did not help him, it hurt him. I can't recall off top of head if it was prosecution that wanted it or defense... But it is becoming a thing with defenses. Murdaugh imo would have been convicted regardless but they could see it and where and you name it better than any pic could show.

In this case, all is different. As you said time of year and changes to the bridge and access and more. I suspect if they have any plan at all and it is not just an effort or distraction and they actually are planning a defense, is they will try to say how could one man get two girls from here to there, do all this and then be gone, etc... Like also said I think by @Tresir is what are they going to do boat the jurors? I mean seriously, are they going to walk them over the bridge like Abby and Libby walked and more? And down the hill?

Make the two defense attorneys go first.

For me, I know all differ, but there is no doubt in my head RA is BG. Almost ZERO. I never go to zero in any case. Ever since I heard the one voice thing, it was over and done with for me. That is without adding confessions and so much more.

I guess the bright side is the trial is still on. D is asking for things like this trip at trial. However, we have thought before it would still be on... I am not where I trust it with a last minute delay because we have seen it not just in this case but in many. Definitely in this one. I don't trust things in life either until they are actually signed, sealed and delivered and am dealing with something on that order right now.

Nice to see you! I still am done with crime and will not be around regularly but hope to finish some like this one out.

I sure hope news coverage is far better with this one than the coverage of the motion hearings were. I am not a Gull fan in not even allowing recorders, etc. OR anything.

I also was not a Boyce fan in Lori Daybell in how he did such. He did open it up in Chad's.

That is my mere 25c worth. I need to catch up with you on Soto. Not sure when or if I will get around to anytime soon.

Have a big thing going on right now and it is beyond stressful. Should be behind me in a week or two. Hopefully. Even then, I am dialing back.

This one is coming fast. Does anyone really trust it will go off as planned? Judge will probably make sure it does but defense will try to derail imo but have they exhausted all they can do that with.... I'm just going by past patterns with all in this case...
 
RA was pretty healthy looking last time I saw him and they don't want him with at the site. Because he is BG. If I was the prosecution, I would walk him over it and have him say "down the hill" Just saying... It's just a stunt and an effort, I am guessing, as to how one man like RA could have gotten two girls down the hill and have done all this. Imo this defense has never had anything and I am guessing they are just shooting for whatever now. They don't plan, they are not on top of anything and they just delay. However, it is their moment for fame. I think in the years to come after all this, things are going to come out and as his wife realizes and more, we are going to hear the b.s. that went on. Right now they have to hang on and stay steady or try to. I think we will hear about these defense attys. Seriously. Both families are in a delay of process, grief, you name it and being told to hang on and stay quiet.

It is jmo.

I don't think Kathy Allen not wearing her wedding ring at the last hearing was a rumor. Many looked for and saw that. Same thing has always gone on with Chad and Lori, people or news attending looks for such. RUMOR is though and this one is RUMOR, his wife is doubting his innocence...

I don't see how anyone could not and we do not even know what she does. Also suspected or hinted is daughter and mom are not on same page with it... Or have not been.

I watch Tom in this over the top case and I know that is known. He rarely goes rumor and if he touches on one, he says it. And his sources are there.

I will bet everything I own which is not much and my health life and all on his wife knows inside RA is BG. And likely even covered for him...

JMO.
 
I think the trails and the bridge have changed a lot but the far end of the bridge, the down the hill bit, the creek, the crime scene itself and the exit via the cemetery back to the car have not changed too much. The old CPS building is gone but the Freedom bridge to the trail start has not changed IMO.
Yeah and they don't want RA there... And as Regina said wrong time of year too. I say prosecution should agree but ask RA to walk the bridge and lead the way and say down the hill. Lol.

I am so sure RA is BG. I have no doubts. I considered many over the years. ANd could not rule them out, voices, appearance, etc. but not like RA. Slam dunk. HIs voice alone is going to nail him. It is slam dunk if you heard the comparison I heard months ago. I am not a great searcher but I would bring it forward if I could. I think I linked it. It is DEAD ON. ANd that's without his confessions since and all else.

I guess Gull could humor the defense, try to do the logistics, was it not you who said how, by boat? But let's bring RA along... They do not WANT him THERE...
 
With the jury i am wondering if they will use the ones they already selected for the May trial. Is that likely?

Also, hopefully we can watch the videos nightly of those you mention who are actually attending for reporting purpose.

Will we get to see the court visiting the trails or will it all be closed down?
I have no idea if that can be done? Maybe someone else does.

That Aspen would be a good one but I think even during hearings his things came out days later so not sure if there will be nightly reporting? News on such sucked. News needs to get with it.

And we can probably count on Murder Sheet will be there. I haven't had any pop ups to their channel in a long time, probably the YT algorithm. I get far more news off YT than anyone can get off news but their things that come up suck some times meaning they don't these days pop up what I would want when looking for something to watch.

I don't imagine we will see any court visiting the trails, if a decision on news coverage does not change.

I can tell ya or say one thing,w with this trial and the controversy Gull, and anyone would be wise to have something recorded even if we cannot see it, rather than that county's court reporter only or people who attend as to what is true and what is not.

It is like bodycams on officers. Keep them on. It protects ALL sides so no one can lie.
 
You're probably right. It would be a bit of an organizational nightmare getting them all across the bridge, DTH, crossing the creek, to the crime scene and then up the back of the cemetery and out onto the road.
Yeah they want to make jurors cross the bridge? I can tell you I would not cross that bridge just like Abby's mom had told her daughter you never cross that bridge, safety sake. So we get some 70 year old juror, or 80 or 60 supposed to cross the bridge? Or someone with a disability? It is asinine. But they want RA not to go... Uh huh.

It's just kinks, theater, etc. imo. Causing trouble for the jurors, the county, the judge, etc. Logistics.

If I were the P, and P can never seem to do what defense pulls in any case, I would say you betcha, we want RA to walk that bridge first and say "down the hill"... Etc. Of course he would change gait, try to not be BG etc.

This case needs to be tried. SAid it the last time. We all did. There is so much we don't know. Just interviews themselves of his wife, daughter, more. While the investigation has sure had its blips and I admit that, the P has never once seemed not ready to try it and go. Despite the whole Doolin thing and everything else, the P has never once seemed not ready. And detectives and LE are not the same as the prosecution/DAs, etc.

We will see I guess. Hopefully. After the fact. From the sh*t news coverage.

My opinion. Oh my.
 
If RA did this, how did he know the girls would be there?
That's assuming this wasn't a crime of opportunity. I for one don't think it was.

Who knows? We know the pic of Abby went to Snapchat. Did they post anything else that morning anywhere about heading to the bridge? His daughter was in high school let's remember. Also it isn't like they hadn't friended another creep called KK who claimed to be a young male model. RA could have also done such a thing or seen something over his daughter's shoulder, etc. if she was friends with either girl or even with Kelsey if she said anything, like hey, gotta go, I'm dropping the girls off at the trail. Not saying any of this is fact, just some thoughts. There still also is the KK thing although since the P wanted him off limits for trial, it seems less likely there was some connection there. However, the D never made an argument for KK or RL.

There are rumors RA's daughter has never been on board with his innocence and in fact just the opposite.

Hopefully we find out all this and more at trial. Well when someone tells us as we won't be able to watch. I have to say I am awaiting the wife's and daughter's testimony.

IF it was a crime of opportunity, well just a nice day and kids off school, he could have well and easily logically figured there would be kids there.

I think though it was planned and A & L were his targets. Could be wrong though.

One thing seems pretty certain he went there prepared to kill imo. Whether it was any girl, two girls or definitely planning to kill A & L we can only surmise.

Also, remember, supposedly RA gave a motive in at least one of his confessions... IF a true motive is a question though.

There is a LOT we don't know that probably is known. Like all cases, there will probably be some unanswered questions even when over. I hope though some of these questions, like this one, we get some answers to FOR the families though first and foremost.
 
That's assuming this wasn't a crime of opportunity. I for one don't think it was.

Who knows? We know the pic of Abby went to Snapchat. Did they post anything else that morning anywhere about heading to the bridge? His daughter was in high school let's remember. Also it isn't like they hadn't friended another creep called KK who claimed to be a young male model. RA could have also done such a thing or seen something over his daughter's shoulder, etc. if she was friends with either girl or even with Kelsey if she said anything, like hey, gotta go, I'm dropping the girls off at the trail. Not saying any of this is fact, just some thoughts. There still also is the KK thing although since the P wanted him off limits for trial, it seems less likely there was some connection there. However, the D never made an argument for KK or RL.

There are rumors RA's daughter has never been on board with his innocence and in fact just the opposite.

Hopefully we find out all this and more at trial. Well when someone tells us as we won't be able to watch. I have to say I am awaiting the wife's and daughter's testimony.

IF it was a crime of opportunity, well just a nice day and kids off school, he could have well and easily logically figured there would be kids there.

I think though it was planned and A & L were his targets. Could be wrong though.

One thing seems pretty certain he went there prepared to kill imo. Whether it was any girl, two girls or definitely planning to kill A & L we can only surmise.

Also, remember, supposedly RA gave a motive in at least one of his confessions... IF a true motive is a question though.

There is a LOT we don't know that probably is known. Like all cases, there will probably be some unanswered questions even when over. I hope though some of these questions, like this one, we get some answers to FOR the families though first and foremost.

That's an awful lot of speculation. KK had contact with Libby on that day and that's factual.
 
That's an awful lot of speculation. KK had contact with Libby on that day and that's factual.
Speculation on what? He either knew they would be there somehow or it was a crime of opportunity.

You assumed he knew and wondered how.

Well the hows he knew of course are speculation because we don't know the answer.

I mean he could have been leaving for a late lunch and driving around and saw Kelsey and the girls headed down the road or stopping for snacks or some such. Yeah, that's speculation, just another possibility.

Much is speculation just like your initial question as to how he knew they would be there? How do you know he did know? That's an assumption/speculation no?

There is much we don't know.

Re KK he arranged to meet Libby but he did not have contact that day and they never met. So that is not factual but I know what you mean. Have a good one.
 
If RA did this, how did he know the girls would be there?
I guess everyone knew schools were off so he just went there, walked a bit on the bridge, checked his stock ticker, went and sat on the bench to wait for some prey. It was just unlucky for the girls. They passed him and went on the bridge. He then waited for them to get half way across so they had no escape and then headed across, catching them up at the end of the bridge. Libby saw him approaching, started recording him said "He's got a gun" (which we could all see in outline in his pocket) and we know the rest.
 
I guess everyone knew schools were off so he just went there, walked a bit on the bridge, checked his stock ticker, went and sat on the bench to wait for some prey. It was just unlucky for the girls. They passed him and went on the bridge. He then waited for them to get half way across so they had no escape and then headed across, catching them up at the end of the bridge. Libby saw him approaching, started recording him said "He's got a gun" (which we could all see in outline in his pocket) and we know the rest.
Very plausible. So you think it was happenstance or opportunistic? I mean that maybe he went prepared with planning to find a victim/s but didn't matter if them or someone else? I can't rule it out. I feel they were the targets but I can't say solidly I know that and some of that was because of the very odd coincidence that KK was trying to meet L at this very same trail...

I think there are a number of ways he could have known or even known last minute and so on. But not sold on it but I lean that way. I do think he had a kill and fantasy planned for that day though and many DO choose their victims ahead...

I am curious in the confessions where he allegedly gave motive, not that he would necessarily tell the truth...

Looming closer and closer, about to turn to October...

I am no trusting in anything this time, I don't know what other kink the defense can throw in but if there is one that can stop or delay it, I feel they will. We've seen it too many times.

By the way woman, I don't recall what thread, but you darned well ARE ahead of us. Unless internet searches and the internet is wrong.

I got home at like 9:30 or so and it was SUNDAY in the UK and Saturday here. When I looked a few months ago I told myself remember about six hours ahead and I have ever since so I figure when it is midnight here, it is around 6 where you are AHEAD of us. You say five. I did just UK tonight and had London I think but unless parts of the UK are on different days and 24 hours apart, you are ahead of us.
It is 12:36 where I am and just turned to Sunday 36 minutes ago. How long has your day already been Sunday?

LOL. Maybe you are taking what I mean by ahead of us wrong. If it's 2 in the afternoon I figure you are around 8 p.m. because I have had about six in my head, but maybe it is more like five. That also depends on what state here by the way whether five, six, etc...

Amyhow if this trial does go off AND actually continue to a finish, I think we are going to learn a lot of new things, however when is another story, with what I consider inferior news coverage.

Hey let me be optimistic once, I used to be in all walks of life, it will be much better this time because it is the actual trial and they will be on it AND the trial will go off and will conclude without issue.

That's a lot to hope for in this case with its history but I tried.... :)

Regards a crime of opportunity or not, I sure don't know. My instinct is he was after these two or at least one of them... I can't shake that pic of his daughter on the bridge... I mean why would ANYONE... The tie dye shirt, similarity in looks. Of course the tie dye thing could be a common school or Delphi thing but still. And some other things...

But the scenario you have is definiitely very plausible but it also is if he was waiting for them in particular...
 
Very plausible. So you think it was happenstance or opportunistic? I mean that maybe he went prepared with planning to find a victim/s but didn't matter if them or someone else? I can't rule it out. I feel they were the targets but I can't say solidly I know that and some of that was because of the very odd coincidence that KK was trying to meet L at this very same trail...

I think there are a number of ways he could have known or even known last minute and so on. But not sold on it but I lean that way. I do think he had a kill and fantasy planned for that day though and many DO choose their victims ahead...

I am curious in the confessions where he allegedly gave motive, not that he would necessarily tell the truth...

Looming closer and closer, about to turn to October...

I am no trusting in anything this time, I don't know what other kink the defense can throw in but if there is one that can stop or delay it, I feel they will. We've seen it too many times.

By the way woman, I don't recall what thread, but you darned well ARE ahead of us. Unless internet searches and the internet is wrong.

I got home at like 9:30 or so and it was SUNDAY in the UK and Saturday here. When I looked a few months ago I told myself remember about six hours ahead and I have ever since so I figure when it is midnight here, it is around 6 where you are AHEAD of us. You say five. I did just UK tonight and had London I think but unless parts of the UK are on different days and 24 hours apart, you are ahead of us.
It is 12:36 where I am and just turned to Sunday 36 minutes ago. How long has your day already been Sunday?

LOL. Maybe you are taking what I mean by ahead of us wrong. If it's 2 in the afternoon I figure you are around 8 p.m. because I have had about six in my head, but maybe it is more like five. That also depends on what state here by the way whether five, six, etc...

Amyhow if this trial does go off AND actually continue to a finish, I think we are going to learn a lot of new things, however when is another story, with what I consider inferior news coverage.

Hey let me be optimistic once, I used to be in all walks of life, it will be much better this time because it is the actual trial and they will be on it AND the trial will go off and will conclude without issue.

That's a lot to hope for in this case with its history but I tried.... :)

Regards a crime of opportunity or not, I sure don't know. My instinct is he was after these two or at least one of them... I can't shake that pic of his daughter on the bridge... I mean why would ANYONE... The tie dye shirt, similarity in looks. Of course the tie dye thing could be a common school or Delphi thing but still. And some other things...

But the scenario you have is definiitely very plausible but it also is if he was waiting for them in particular...
It depends. We are 5 hours ahead of EST. If you are on Central Time, that would make a difference. Re Pacific time I think we are 9 hours ahead. Then it changes if our clocks change for the winter at a different time to yours. It is 07.55 a.m. right now.

Good morning. Two weeks to go
 
Speculation on what? He either knew they would be there somehow or it was a crime of opportunity.

You assumed he knew and wondered how.

Well the hows he knew of course are speculation because we don't know the answer.

I mean he could have been leaving for a late lunch and driving around and saw Kelsey and the girls headed down the road or stopping for snacks or some such. Yeah, that's speculation, just another possibility.

Much is speculation just like your initial question as to how he knew they would be there? How do you know he did know? That's an assumption/speculation no?

There is much we don't know.

Re KK he arranged to meet Libby but he did not have contact that day and they never met. So that is not factual but I know what you mean. Have a good one.

So he was planning on killing someone that day, or just young girls who were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I guess everyone knew schools were off so he just went there, walked a bit on the bridge, checked his stock ticker, went and sat on the bench to wait for some prey. It was just unlucky for the girls. They passed him and went on the bridge. He then waited for them to get half way across so they had no escape and then headed across, catching them up at the end of the bridge. Libby saw him approaching, started recording him said "He's got a gun" (which we could all see in outline in his pocket) and we know the rest.

I cannot see the gun. Libby doesn't say he has a gun until after he says "Down the hill".
 
So he was planning on killing someone that day, or just young girls who were in the wrong place at the wrong time?



I cannot see the gun. Libby doesn't say he has a gun until after he says "Down the hill".
Yes, both, i believe so.


You can see the gun outline in his jacket pocket quite clearly. She says he's got a gun apparently before the published seconds of the video/audio.
 
P object to D wanting jury to visit scene. Gull sensibly postpones her decision till beginning of trial. She has clearly learnt how the D likes to proceed as she is now on the third planned trial date.

Lets see what the D have up their sleeve next.


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case is objecting to allowing the jury to see the crime scene where police found the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German.
The defense made the request earlier this week. The defense also wants the jury to walk the trail from the Freedom Bridge to the Monon High Bridge to view where investigators say the girls were abducted. The defense wants the jury to see where prosecutors claim Richard Allen parked his car on the day of the murders.
Judge Frances Gull on Thursday said she would wait until after jury selection to made a decision. That is scheduled to begin Oct. 14.
 

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