LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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It doesn't say if the genetic DNA linked to RA or if it linked to anyone. Just that it was done. If there was a genetic link I believe it would have been announced in the original press conference.

The gun I was wrong about. I still don't see it, but so many others do. The mentioning of the gun is on the part of the recording we haven't heard yet. I'm not as bad as Kimster at finding Pandas and Rudolph, but I miss some things.

Speaking of the recording. The original released portion didn't have the word "guys" attached to it. It may have been taken from another part of the recording.

I also don't believe the voice matches.

As teenagers and on, people would call for my father and if my brother or I answered they'd think it was my dad.

If there's a sonic device to test voice similarity, I'll be interested to see it.

Thanks
 
Speculation on what? He either knew they would be there somehow or it was a crime of opportunity.

You assumed he knew and wondered how.

Well the hows he knew of course are speculation because we don't know the answer.

I mean he could have been leaving for a late lunch and driving around and saw Kelsey and the girls headed down the road or stopping for snacks or some such. Yeah, that's speculation, just another possibility.

Much is speculation just like your initial question as to how he knew they would be there? How do you know he did know? That's an assumption/speculation no?

There is much we don't know.

Re KK he arranged to meet Libby but he did not have contact that day and they never met. So that is not factual but I know what you mean. Have a good one.
Mondays were his regular day off IIRC.
 
It doesn't say if the genetic DNA linked to RA or if it linked to anyone. Just that it was done. If there was a genetic link I believe it would have been announced in the original press conference.

The gun I was wrong about. I still don't see it, but so many others do. The mentioning of the gun is on the part of the recording we haven't heard yet. I'm not as bad as Kimster at finding Pandas and Rudolph, but I miss some things.

Speaking of the recording. The original released portion didn't have the word "guys" attached to it. It may have been taken from another part of the recording.

I also don't believe the voice matches.

As teenagers and on, people would call for my father and if my brother or I answered they'd think it was my dad.

If there's a sonic device to test voice similarity, I'll be interested to see it.

Thanks
You really can't see the outline of the gun in his right jacket pocket? Look again, it is handle downwards SE direction, barrel upwards NW direction. Use a magnifying glass if you have one.

I didnt say it was his DNA but, it does mean they have human DNA. The 20k for geneology testing confirms to me it is human DNA. Could be his wife or daughter, like in LISK.

They can't announce it as there is a gag order, remember? Not sure what you mean about announcing they have DNA at the PC. What PC do you mean, as there have been several?

Also, as in LISK, and GSK they may have had to wait till technology advanced to where they could finally trace the DNA.
 
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RA was pretty healthy looking last time I saw him and they don't want him with at the site. Because he is BG. If I was the prosecution, I would walk him over it and have him say "down the hill" Just saying... It's just a stunt and an effort, I am guessing, as to how one man like RA could have gotten two girls down the hill and have done all this. Imo this defense has never had anything and I am guessing they are just shooting for whatever now. They don't plan, they are not on top of anything and they just delay. However, it is their moment for fame. I think in the years to come after all this, things are going to come out and as his wife realizes and more, we are going to hear the b.s. that went on. Right now they have to hang on and stay steady or try to. I think we will hear about these defense attys. Seriously. Both families are in a delay of process, grief, you name it and being told to hang on and stay quiet.

It is jmo.

I don't think Kathy Allen not wearing her wedding ring at the last hearing was a rumor. Many looked for and saw that. Same thing has always gone on with Chad and Lori, people or news attending looks for such. RUMOR is though and this one is RUMOR, his wife is doubting his innocence...

I don't see how anyone could not and we do not even know what she does. Also suspected or hinted is daughter and mom are not on same page with it... Or have not been.

I watch Tom in this over the top case and I know that is known. He rarely goes rumor and if he touches on one, he says it. And his sources are there.

I will bet everything I own which is not much and my health life and all on his wife knows inside RA is BG. And likely even covered for him...

JMO.
There is a lot about the wedding ring on Reddit. It basically says why she removed it.
 
You really can't see the outline of the gun in his right jacket pocket? Look again, it is handle downwards SE direction, barrel upwards NW direction. Use a magnifying glass if you have one.

I didnt say it was his DNA but, it does mean they have human DNA. The 20k for geneology testing confirms to me it is human DNA. Could be his wife or daughter, like in LISK.

They can't announce it as there is a gag order, remember? Not sure what you mean about announcing they have DNA at the PC. What PC do you mean, as there have been several?

Also, as in LISK, and GSK they may have had to wait till technology advanced to where they could finally trace the DNA.

It seems that in every major case that's taken awhile to solve, they say they have a DNA match immediately to show the public they have the right person. The gag order was imposed much later.
 
It depends. We are 5 hours ahead of EST. If you are on Central Time, that would make a difference. Re Pacific time I think we are 9 hours ahead. Then it changes if our clocks change for the winter at a different time to yours. It is 07.55 a.m. right now.

Good morning. Two weeks to go
I am CST. And our time will change in November. Does yours? If you are the same as London time, it is six right now which is the math I was doing and what I had found before and reconfirmed last night.

Two weeks, WOW. However, I recall this last time and then bam and so even though I can't help anticipating it, I am not letting myself get high hopes. Can't even imagine the families probably cautioning themselves. Well I can, we were upset very much so each and every time ours was delayed. Majorly.
 
So he was planning on killing someone that day, or just young girls who were in the wrong place at the wrong time?



I cannot see the gun. Libby doesn't say he has a gun until after he says "Down the hill".
Personally I have long thought it was intended to be A & L. I've explained that in some post above but Tresir things he was waiting for any prey and that's quite possible too.

I mean he didn't have many options, four girls would be much harder to control or older women who were probably not what he was looking for.

I am not sold on being right, I just have felt these girls were targeted and were the intended targets. Sure could be wrong though.

Whether you believe it or not, we are going to be finding out some things we did not know in this trial IF a trial ever goes off. We probably won't get all answers, no case ever seems to give all, but we will get many we don't have now, and a lot more info.
 
P object to D wanting jury to visit scene. Gull sensibly postpones her decision till beginning of trial. She has clearly learnt how the D likes to proceed as she is now on the third planned trial date.

Lets see what the D have up their sleeve next.


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case is objecting to allowing the jury to see the crime scene where police found the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German.
The defense made the request earlier this week. The defense also wants the jury to walk the trail from the Freedom Bridge to the Monon High Bridge to view where investigators say the girls were abducted. The defense wants the jury to see where prosecutors claim Richard Allen parked his car on the day of the murders.
Judge Frances Gull on Thursday said she would wait until after jury selection to made a decision. That is scheduled to begin Oct. 14.
I don't see what it gains them and jurors could be in any walk of life, older, disabled etc. and this is not like a bus to a property as in Murdaugh. They want to go to all, don't they, the bridge, then down the hill, the parking site, etc.? In Murdaugh I don't think they even went up to the house, just to the kennels, etc.

They have time to fill for one thing... It is not the same time of year, the area is not the same at any spot, etc.

Personally I don't care if agreed to or not, I just don't see it as helpful to them anyhow. And RA not wanting to go and then not wanting him to go takes the cake. Hey if you want the jury to see the area and scene then let them see the guy accused placed in it as well. If I were the P I would argue it but then say IF granted, he should have to come along... Jmo of course.
 
I am CST. And our time will change in November. Does yours? If you are the same as London time, it is six right now which is the math I was doing and what I had found before and reconfirmed last night.

Two weeks, WOW. However, I recall this last time and then bam and so even though I can't help anticipating it, I am not letting myself get high hopes. Can't even imagine the families probably cautioning themselves. Well I can, we were upset very much so each and every time ours was delayed. Majorly.
Ok that explains why it is 6 hours different. Glad we got that sorted out.

It seems that in every major case that's taken awhile to solve, they say they have a DNA match immediately to show the public they have the right person. The gag order was imposed much later.
I remember Tobe saying they had DNA but i took it with a pinch of salt. However, they did spend many weeks early on checking and discounting all the sex offenders, so not sure if they did that with alibis or with DNA.

The gag order has only been in place since 2022, RA arrest was it or after the F memo came out in 2023?
 
It doesn't say if the genetic DNA linked to RA or if it linked to anyone. Just that it was done. If there was a genetic link I believe it would have been announced in the original press conference.

The gun I was wrong about. I still don't see it, but so many others do. The mentioning of the gun is on the part of the recording we haven't heard yet. I'm not as bad as Kimster at finding Pandas and Rudolph, but I miss some things.

Speaking of the recording. The original released portion didn't have the word "guys" attached to it. It may have been taken from another part of the recording.

I also don't believe the voice matches.

As teenagers and on, people would call for my father and if my brother or I answered they'd think it was my dad.

If there's a sonic device to test voice similarity, I'll be interested to see it.

Thanks
The gun is pretty widely accepted and been talked of for years as to what might be on his person. However, it doesn't have to be a gun but it of course does all fit. And then it is on the recording.

If you don't believe that voice matches then you did not hear the recording and match I did some time back. That is a CLINCHER for me. It was a flat on dead ringer and they are going to have a LOT of comparison tapes now although I doubt they will need to use them all.

Calling for you, your dad or your brother is not the same. He is placed there, he placed himself there and his dad and brother were not there.

If I was a good searcher on this site, but never have figured out how to do it to do it in a thread, I have tried, I would go try to find that comparison for you. It is NOT the one most heard, it was another and it is totally on, not just a little bit. I have said so many a time and did back then. Even if you wanted to make it not match or wanted to not believe it, you'd be hard put to deny it.

I have said in the last weeks and will again, imo, the voice part is going to nail him hard. Other things will as well but again it is an exact match to our ears. EXACT,. We are not some scientific test but I've said before we have heard many through the years we thought "could" be but this is different, there's no denying it....

I AM anticipating this but have no faith the defense will carry forward and not try to derail it and if it does commence (let's hope) that they won't try to derail during trial.

I try to maintain some hope that Gull will last minute allow Tweets or something but it seems very doubtful. The coverage on the hearings was sh*t imo. Later when YTers had the time to get home and put shows on, we learned a LOT more but news on the spot, not so much.

Not having some type of recording also imo is a wrong choice other than just a human court reporter.

She could have a court camera to not even be seen until after or anything like that.
 
There is a lot about the wedding ring on Reddit. It basically says why she removed it.
Can you fill in briefly? I don't do Reddit, never have learned to navigate that place. There is nothing just in one spot. Or did not used to be anyhow. Subthreads, tons of main threads, all sorts of threads or whatever they call it there.

I can't imagine many reasons nor how they would know but would be interested in hearing it.
 
It seems that in every major case that's taken awhile to solve, they say they have a DNA match immediately to show the public they have the right person. The gag order was imposed much later.
It would really depend on timing among other things. RA came to the forefront kind of suddenly in reviewing all tips. Once arrested, etc. this testing could have taken months and by then they were not sharing and the gag order did come in at some point. They asked from the start for sealing if I recall of the case.

For me it is not a be all and end all anyhow which has been discussed a lot by most all. DNA is great but it is not direct evidence (almost nothing ever is) and nowadays with the touch DNA and such, it actually can confuse. The genetic testing is interesting though but note we only know about it through expenses coming out.... That shows us right there no we aren't aware of everything and everything is not shared...

And it could be anything, do we know...?
 
Personally I have long thought it was intended to be A & L. I've explained that in some post above but Tresir things he was waiting for any prey and that's quite possible too.

I mean he didn't have many options, four girls would be much harder to control or older women who were probably not what he was looking for.

I am not sold on being right, I just have felt these girls were targeted and were the intended targets. Sure could be wrong though.

Whether you believe it or not, we are going to be finding out some things we did not know in this trial IF a trial ever goes off. We probably won't get all answers, no case ever seems to give all, but we will get many we don't have now, and a lot more info.

The judge is doing her best to make sure the trial is covered by as few people as possible. If any trial needed to be broadcast this is the one, JMO
 
The judge is doing her best to make sure the trial is covered by as few people as possible. If any trial needed to be broadcast this is the one, JMO
Well she's not succeeding. This case has been big news ever since it happened but it must not be sensationalised as it involves dead children and their families.
 
Can you fill in briefly? I don't do Reddit, never have learned to navigate that place. There is nothing just in one spot. Or did not used to be anyhow. Subthreads, tons of main threads, all sorts of threads or whatever they call it there.

I can't imagine many reasons nor how they would know but would be interested in hearing it.
I've tried to find it again but not successful. It basically said she had removed her ring and was only at the hearings to support RA's mother.
 
The judge is doing her best to make sure the trial is covered by as few people as possible. If any trial needed to be broadcast this is the one, JMO
I am not sure about your first part but you are certainly welcome to your opinion. In fact there were tons of MSM and more, it is just that they were short blurbs and nothing more significan came out until people like Aspen got time to do longer coverage on the hearing days.

Personally I think she is doing it to absolutely ensure not a thing that should not get out to the public slips out and just ensuring no mistrial, mess, circus by tons being able to Tweet live, hit the internet and more and so on are her reasons. However, she could at least have it recorded for after the trial or as Boyce did in the one, letting it out the day after each day or something on that order, or two days later etc.

I do agree with you on if there is one trial that should be fully covered and broadcast it is this one. The jury will be sequestered fully and will not have TV news access, etc. She has secured all she can and I think that is what she is doing.

And I don't want it televised or recorded just for our sakes, I want it done for full transparency.

We can blame Gull and I'm not very happy with the decision myself but also should keep in mind oru laws allow the judges to make this choice. I think it is awful that federal court too NEVER has cameras.

Finally I don't think either side is asking for cameras and perhaps if the D was or someone was, her decision would be different as it comes from the party with rights etc.

If I recall Chad wanted cameras and they got them. Different state of course.
 
I've tried to find it again but not successful. It basically said she had removed her ring and was only at the hearings to support RA's mother.
Thank you. Interesting. Of course already knew about ring removal, then Tom said "rumor" had it she was not believing him any longer or doubting him but never heard the part about supporting his mother only being her reason for still attending. Never been on that side, but something like this can tear families apart, and none of them asked for any of it but all can have different opinions. OR all can be on same page.... We were all on same page but doesn't mean through all the unknowns earl on that did not vary or as to whether to yell or keep quite.

This is her MIL, her hub of decades, her daughter, and then there is her.... and public opinion, LE and more...

Very much jmo but hindsight and more if she is not a clueless type by now, and with is confessions, has to have her looking back and seeing things.... Again jmo...

However, just guessing she also does not want to fail her MIL of years, andit is not decided yet etc... Hard times and beyond I am sure. BUT FOR THE VICTIMS' families too.

AGain thanks for the info!
 
I am not sure about your first part but you are certainly welcome to your opinion. In fact there were tons of MSM and more, it is just that they were short blurbs and nothing more significan came out until people like Aspen got time to do longer coverage on the hearing days.

Personally I think she is doing it to absolutely ensure not a thing that should not get out to the public slips out and just ensuring no mistrial, mess, circus by tons being able to Tweet live, hit the internet and more and so on are her reasons. However, she could at least have it recorded for after the trial or as Boyce did in the one, letting it out the day after each day or something on that order, or two days later etc.

I do agree with you on if there is one trial that should be fully covered and broadcast it is this one. The jury will be sequestered fully and will not have TV news access, etc. She has secured all she can and I think that is what she is doing.

And I don't want it televised or recorded just for our sakes, I want it done for full transparency.

We can blame Gull and I'm not very happy with the decision myself but also should keep in mind oru laws allow the judges to make this choice. I think it is awful that federal court too NEVER has cameras.

Finally I don't think either side is asking for cameras and perhaps if the D was or someone was, her decision would be different as it comes from the party with rights etc.

If I recall Chad wanted cameras and they got them. Different state of course.

She's set up a lot of stuff to get a retrial.
 

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