LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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So jury selection is 3 days, so the first day of the actual trial won't be till the Friday (17th). Then I believe it is three weeks put aside for it from then on which woulf mean ending around 8th Nov by my calculation.

6 seats for family. 5 for media with media to decide who gets them.
So are there only 11 seats or who gets the rest, the general public?

I started to watch Aspen's last night for a few minutes and there was something interesting I was going to come mention but right at point I was dozing off. Can't think of right now a few hours later when had to get up for one of these back to back shifts.

It might come to me once I wake up and get some coffee in me.

OH, that he thinks this trial IS going to go off this time, and happen. The woman with him not so sure, and I can't recall his reasons right now but they will come to me probably. Wish I'd had time to watch it all and ran into it before exhaustion struck.

I sure hope he is right.

One was that he does not think Gull is going to brook any many delays and that she already granted them several.

See, starting to come to me already. Lol.

You know, that isn't very many seats even for family members. There are THREE families here. Did you get this from his show or from somewhere else?

We had one family and then the perp's of course and our family alone took up two to three rows on one side, at minimum, and friends and extended family who supported.

Anyhow, I am hoping but am not getting hopes overly up about it proceeding, it does seem likely but we thought that last time.

I can't imagine the families probably cautioning themselves even more so to not count on it, as thus far, always some delay, kink, etc. caused by the defense to date.
 
All the other suspects have been discounted by LE so this is a last gasp for these youtubers to get $ off the murder of two innocents. The only thing she said of interest to me was that the court has allowed 5 seats for media and she has applied. Now that is not very many and you can bet the local rag will want to be there and the big networks, Fox, CNN, etc so these smaller ones may not be successful. Maybe MS and Aspen may get on there but i think that even they will be lucky.

2 weeks to go.
Oh now I see where you saw it.

Still trying to wake up.

Lee is all right. Haven't watched her in awhile but I wouldn't class her as a bad YTer or money grubbing one. Jmo. I don't think she is in financial need. Jmo.
 
So jury selection does not start ahead but on the 14th, expected to take three full days with opening statements to begin that Friday... Per Aspen. Said trial is expected to last five weeks.

I'd still like to see how they expect to fill that time now. The D I mean.
 
Media gets to decide their five seats and who attends and court won't get involved in any disputes the way it sounds here. Meaning Gull does not pick the media that attends, etc. Family gets their six and then remaining seating is for the public.

Also of interest is that media can use public areas inside and outside so long as they don't impede court, traffic and so on and I am surmising if any want to go out on a break and Tweet or get on camera live they probably can...? They just can't have such devices in the courtroom...

IF all media is on the ball (not counting on) and they pick wisely and have tag teams outside, they should be able to navigate this and give us some coverage each day throughout the day.

This is my interpretation of the rules and such they are showing here...
 
I'd also say that the remaining first come first serve seats for the general public might mean more media can get into those seats IF they come as general public and get the seats first, etc. as those seats can be I'd assume, for anyone...
 
Aspen says in IN media has a clear definition and those five seats are for traditional media, not YTers etc. Meaning imo we will have five traditional media reporters, worthless imo, judging by their coverage of the hearings, and jmo. Any and all others will be I suppose trying for the public seats.

I've never really listened to him before, I dont' find him easy to listen to at all times, he kind of struggles for words, at least in this one. Guess I'd have to listen to others and more.
 
He says he insanely believes yet there will be cameras... I don't think he means with live feed necessarily, a bit unclear... They think there MAY be a video feed and likely an audio feed.

It was Court TV that ruined it as far as publishing things back in October of 2023 that they'd shouldn't have.
 
So are there only 11 seats or who gets the rest, the general public?

I started to watch Aspen's last night for a few minutes and there was something interesting I was going to come mention but right at point I was dozing off. Can't think of right now a few hours later when had to get up for one of these back to back shifts.

It might come to me once I wake up and get some coffee in me.

OH, that he thinks this trial IS going to go off this time, and happen. The woman with him not so sure, and I can't recall his reasons right now but they will come to me probably. Wish I'd had time to watch it all and ran into it before exhaustion struck.

I sure hope he is right.

One was that he does not think Gull is going to brook any many delays and that she already granted them several.

See, starting to come to me already. Lol.

You know, that isn't very many seats even for family members. There are THREE families here. Did you get this from his show or from somewhere else?

We had one family and then the perp's of course and our family alone took up two to three rows on one side, at minimum, and friends and extended family who supported.

Anyhow, I am hoping but am not getting hopes overly up about it proceeding, it does seem likely but we thought that last time.

I can't imagine the families probably cautioning themselves even more so to not count on it, as thus far, always some delay, kink, etc. caused by the defense to date.
Yeah i got the seat numbers from what they said. 6 for family would be 2 for Libby, 2 for Abby and 2 for RA families. But i could have got it wrong. The sound was not good and they kept talking over each other.

The other seats will have to be first come, first served. The accredited media gets to decide who gets the 5 media seats.
 
I never get to catch lives of Tom's. It isn't that not seeing a show live is so different other than I probably pay more attention to chat than I do on a replay and I just prefer lives with any channel.

But it really is the same, just my own thing I guess where I like to participate, etc.

But he has one coming up, of course I will be working, not sure omy schedule that day but guaranteed I won't be off mid-afternoon. I will catch it as I always do with his, later/after. Here is the link for anyone who can and wants to.

 
This is saying that Todd Click has been arrested. It does not seem to be to do with this case however, but am posting the link as it may come up so best to have the details. The charges are to do with false reports made to the DCS.

 
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This is saying that Todd Click has been arrested. It does not seem to be to do with this case however, but am posting the link as it may come up so best to have the details. The charges are to do with false reports made to the DCS.


WOW. I turned this on so was hearing it while in the thores of major things in life here.

I heard a lot of it but didn't sit down and focus.

This is a lot against him. He will clearly be impeached if they try to use him. I have always thought about these O cops and theorists that they are from a certain school of cops these days...

Anyhow, I did hear plenty in between my stuff and this is pretty big!
 
About 3:15 in, cost of trial about double now, four million, etc. Have to laugh, Scott says not televised because judge think we are all idiots and should not be allowed to see what govt has or does not have against RA. More, listen to link, just minutes.

 
Gives a lot of the reasons yet 2.4 million?? Increased security in and around courthouse etc... Wow. Sequestering jurors and travel to hotel, etc. Still millions....!

Lots of arrangements. All I have to say is the D had better not try to derail this again, HUGE cost to Carroll County. This is now over 4 mill.

Anyhow, Aspen said the other day he does not see it being delayed again because judge won't brook another delay and has given them many a chance and delay. I'd now agree and I think taxpayers to are going to have a fit if it is.

Still 2.4 mill is a lot, just shows what govt spends without time to shop around and get the bargain deal lol.

Not really funny but that's one helluva lot of $$$$$ even with the things Scott mentions for costs...
 
DELPHI, Ind. ― An unfired .40-caliber bullet ejected from a semiautomatic pistol found on the ground between the bodies of Delphi teenagers Libby German and Abby Williams ties murder suspect Richard Allen to the scene, according to the prosecutor's probable cause affidavit.

It's the only physical evidence that prosecutors mentioned in that affidavit: Tool marks examined on the bullet linked it to Allen's Sig Sauer pistol.

"The round was unspent and had extraction marks on it," the court record states.

But Allen's attorneys plan to call William A. Tobin, a metallurgy expert, to testify during Allen's upcoming murder trial, to cast a shadow on the methodology of forensic tool marks examinations, according to a recently filed motion from Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland.

McLeland has asked in his motion that Special Judge Frances Gull bar Tobin from testifying on the methodology of forensic tool marking, which is used to link specific bullets, casings and bullet fragments to a specific firearm.

"Mr. Tobin testified that though he has not reviewed all of (the Indiana State Police Laboratory tool marks expert's) materials, he has 'what he typically needs' to be able to opine on the methodology that's used," McLeland writes in his motion. "Tobin went on to explain that the State's firearms expert witness's conclusions are based on flawed methodology."

The prosecutor notes that Tobin is not an expert in firearms examination, and as such, his testimony lacks relevance.

"(T)he probative value of Mr. Tobin's testimony would be substantially outweighed by a danger of confusing the issues and misleading the jury," McLeland wrote, citing a Marion County case where the judge barred Tobin's testimony.

What are forensic tool markings?​

Scott Owens, a tool marks and firearm examiner for the Indiana State Police lab at Lowell, recently testified about how he links shell casings to specific firearms. His testimony was delivered in late July during an unrelated murder trial in Tippecanoe County.

“Firearms contain several small tools, such as the firing pin, breach face, extractor, ejector, several others," Owens said. "The surface of these tools is unique and leaves characteristic marks when they press into or scrape against a softer surface such as a bullet or a cartridge case."

By comparing markings on a bullet ejected from a known sidearm with marks on a bullet found a crime scene, Owens said he can positively identify the firearm that made the marks.

"When sufficient agreement among the unique features of two tool marks is observed during comparison, it can be concluded that the same tool has made both marks,” Owens said during the Tippecanoe County trial.

Prosecutors: Only extractor markings on this bullet​

Based on what is publicly known, the bullet recovered between Libby and Abby's body had not been fired, so there are no firing pin or breach face markings. That leaves only possible markings from the bullet extractor and ejector that tie the bullet to Allen's pistol. The prosecutor's affidavit mentions only markings from the extractor.

"The extractor mechanism removes a cartridge from the chamber, while the ejector throws the cartridge away once it is extracted," according to oxfordreferences.com.

Owens said during the July trial that markings can be tied to a specific firearm.

“Individual characteristics are random imperfections, irregularities unique to a specific item,” Owen testified in late July as he explained how he can determine shell casings come from a specific firearm. “These occur during manufacturing, through use, wear of an item, and they can be used to identify a specific item because they are unique to that item.”

But the trial in which Owen testified also included firing pin markings on the casing's primer.

"The extractor may or may not leave an identifiable mark on the cartridge case," according to a published report on firearmsID.com. "This is true if the cartridge is fired or simply hand chambered and extracted without firing."

The prosecutors allege that the extractor markings left on the bullet at the Delphi killings scene matched the extractor markings from bullets Indiana State Police Laboratory workers ejected from Allen's pistol.

In the weeks before Allen's Oct. 26, 2022, arrest, police confiscated his Smith & Wesson .40-caliber ammunition and his pistol after searching his house.

Smith & Wesson is a common manufacturer of ammunition, and .40-caliber is a common bullet size. Allen's sidearm, a Sig Sauer, also is a commonly owned firearm.

According to McLeland's motion filed Friday afternoon and made public on Monday, Allen's attorneys also have listed Eric Warren as a witness. Although Tobin questions the methodology of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners, Warren is a member of that association and had held leadership positions in it.

Allen's trial begins in the middle of the month with jury selection in Fort Wayne. Once a jury is empaneled, it will be sequestered and bused to the Carroll County area.

Opening statements, evidence and closing statements, as well as the verdict, all will be in Delphi at the Carroll County Courthouse.

Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.



 
haven't watched all yet but first five minutes or so, not agreeing with him... Even so, I am sharing.

SHOULD the jury go down the hill?

Oh God, just heard as typing this Barb MacDonald and Bob Motta are the guests. I try, to share all, or be fair, but I think I'm done with it just hearing that. But for anyone else, here ya go.

 

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