LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
I hope you're joking about that. Like LISK, it could be someone close to the murderer.
No I wasn't joking - it could be Kelsey or Libby or Abbey's hair, or any of their female relatives. It could also be a female relative of the murderer too, or any female he came into contact with at the pharmacy.
 
I heard 4 banned, 5 cameras confiscated. Alex had 2. He's Gannett. I heard AP got banned, too.
Wow. So close to right in five cams, four banned... You know they need to be named and backs turned to them, although I don't like Gull's ruling either but it is those that don't play by the rules that ruin it. Imo. I honestly don't know who Alex or Gannett is, no time right now to look into but sure I'll find out at some point.

I do think Gull's lack of even allowing a recording device helped nothing but you still don't flaunt a court order imo.

You know it is the first time it's dawned on me just as I wrote that last sentence but perhaps there's a very good reason for banning all, even nonconnected devices.

So I wonder the ones that pulled it today, was it JUST so they could refer to it and figured they would never keep up with notes or did they plan on releasing it at some point and would take the fine, the slap, etc... because it would be worth it?

I don't agree with Gull's decision on no recording devices but I also dont' agree with this flaunting of the rules.

This is going to be a sh*t show I think. I mean I hope not but coverage already is all over the place...
 
IMO, all evidence collected from murdered individuals needs to be analyzed. This is a bit of an issue. In the US, something like this could trip up the jury.
We don't know anything about this hair yet except what the D have said and i don't believe anything they say TBH, especially after the O fiasco and the CS photo leaks etc etc.
 
Ok so it was big media - AP news (Associated Press) and NBC (National Broadcasting Corporation). They should really know better.
 
I hope you're joking about that. Like LISK, it could be someone close to the murderer.
Uhm yeah. In LISK it was his wife, his daughter, and a roommate (who may or may not have been his first wife). So in this sone it could b RA's daughter, his wife, or it could be Kelsey, Libby's hair on Abby, etc.. What is it you mean about joking? YES it could be someone close to the murderer OR to the girls. Or to none. Could be Kelsey's bf's mother.

I hate to say it or ask for it, but I think you need to elaborate what you mean.
 
No I wasn't joking - it could be Kelsey or Libby or Abbey's hair, or any of their female relatives. It could also be a female relative of the murderer too, or any female he came into contact with at the pharmacy.

They had NO IDEA who did this when they found it. Had they tested it, it would've expedited identification.
 
They had NO IDEA who did this when they found it. Had they tested it, it would've expedited identification.
We don't even know if it is true yet. It was from the D remember, who insisted BH did it. They did know that a dude did it from the actual video.

Also it is not so easy testing a hair, it is an advancing and complicated changing science.
 
Last edited:
Yes I do mean her. I didn't get a chance to get on the thread earlier but knew that it is at least 5 hours behind me so i knew i would not see the whole days reporting till 10 pm my time and it is only that now. Still have not seen any afternoon coverage.
yeah I had to go looking and couldn't find sh*t. No one was on here at all or sharing. Got past what should have been their lunch break, still was finding nothing. I dind't look hard, don't get me wrong but enought at I\d expect SOMETHING would have popped up. Then when it did the person was showing coverage from a variety of sources...

I had a busy day and daughter due here shortly but I figured all day with no cameras allowed and stuff the first word might be around the lunch break but found nothing... But then when I did...

She made a big mistake in keeping this from even audio recording imo.

I still am not up on all but I gather gma, dad and Kelsi were up today?

Now as I am listening and writing this, I am hearing some seats are going to outsiders and family not liking that, or was it media not liking.

Like I said sh*t show already.

This is going to be quite the example of what no recording or live coverage can do imo. IF we could all hear the live trial, every single person or those of us who hear it or anyone in the country or world could check someone having their facts wrong BECAUSE we heard it ourselves or someone did and can play it back.

I've agreed with most of Gull's decisions and see the reason for almost all of them but I am NOT on board with this one as to coverage and it's already a huge problem imo.
 
Uhm yeah. In LISK it was his wife, his daughter, and a roommate (who may or may not have been his first wife). So in this sone it could b RA's daughter, his wife, or it could be Kelsey, Libby's hair on Abby, etc.. What is it you mean about joking? YES it could be someone close to the murderer OR to the girls. Or to none. Could be Kelsey's bf's mother.

I hate to say it or ask for it, but I think you need to elaborate what you mean.
And look how long it took to ID the LISK female hairs. 14 years? Partly due to waiting for technology to advance. This may also explain the expense for DNA testing that was detailed in the costs for $10k was it?
 

If they KNOW the hair is from a female, and they KNOW it is not from Abby or Libby or RA, then they tested it. People saying they didn't test it are being disingenuous.
But they didn't identify it.
And yes, if I were a juror this would ALREADY give me pause. - But this is only one side of the story. Hopefully someone will clear this up. It won't be the last we hear of it.
 
Wow. So close to right in five cams, four banned... You know they need to be named and backs turned to them, although I don't like Gull's ruling either but it is those that don't play by the rules that ruin it. Imo. I honestly don't know who Alex or Gannett is, no time right now to look into but sure I'll find out at some point.

I do think Gull's lack of even allowing a recording device helped nothing but you still don't flaunt a court order imo.

You know it is the first time it's dawned on me just as I wrote that last sentence but perhaps there's a very good reason for banning all, even nonconnected devices.

So I wonder the ones that pulled it today, was it JUST so they could refer to it and figured they would never keep up with notes or did they plan on releasing it at some point and would take the fine, the slap, etc... because it would be worth it?

I don't agree with Gull's decision on no recording devices but I also dont' agree with this flaunting of the rules.

This is going to be a sh*t show I think. I mean I hope not but coverage already is all over the place...
So they were filming the jurors were they? These agencies know that is wrong. WTH were they playing at. Are these barrier sheets they have put up to stop them filming with long range lenses thru the windows?
 
The females in the families have been providing DNA over the years according to this article.

From the link.

DELPHI, Ind. – Becky Patty took the stand for emotional testimony in the Delphi murders trial.

The grandmother of Libby German was the first person called to testify in the proceedings.

She described Libby as “active, very smart, involved in sports” and said she had “tons of friends.”


Her best friend, however, was Abby Williams. They were inseparable, went on vacations together and frequently slept at each other’s houses. They played volleyball and were in band together.

Libby had just turned 14 in December, Patty said, and Abby had spent the night before the girls headed off for a fateful walk.

State, defense deliver opening statements in Delphi murders trial
She asked if she and Abby could go the trails, with her older sister Kelsi driving them. Another family member was supposed to pick them up later on Feb. 13.

“She came to the office saying goodbye,” Patty recalled, often fighting tears during her testimony. “I told her to grab a jacket. The last thing she said was, ‘Grandma, I’ll be okay.’”

From Patty’s recollection, Libby was wearing tie dye shirt and gray sweatpants the last time she saw her. Patty was convinced the trail was safe, although she knew the Monon High Bridge’s reputation.

Abby Williams and Libby German
13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German. (Credit: Family)
It extends high into the air with no guardrails. Still, Libby was adventurous and wanted to go over the bridge, something Prosecutor Nick McLeland called a “rite of passage” in opening statements.

“She liked adventure. She wanted to try anything once,” Patty said of her granddaughter. “She was intelligent. She had more reasoning power than I. She was calm, that was her nature.”

Libby was a true crime fan, her grandmother said.

“She was logical. She loved crime shows. She said I’m going to help you solve crimes. She wanted to make a difference,” Patty said.

When a family member went to pick the girls up from the trail around 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, they weren’t there. Libby wasn’t answering her phone. Other family members tried to call her without success.

Delphi-Broll-ININDOF1ENC001_1_mxf_00.02.29.52.jpg
Carroll County Courthouse interior on Oct. 17, 2018
Abby didn’t have a phone, so the family called her mom but couldn’t immediately reach her.

For hours, the family tried to call Libby. They couldn’t get her to answer. They went on the trail to look for the girls but didn’t find them as the night wore on.

The next day, searchers found the girls dead.

“A friend comes running up to me, ‘We found them, we found them,’” she said. “I remember turning around to my sister who was sitting there crying. And all she could say was, ‘I’m sorry. I’m sorry.’”

Initially, Patty didn’t understand why no one would take her to see Libby and Abby.

“Then I saw the coroner’s van driving by,” Patty recalled. “That’s when I realized they weren’t alive.”

During cross examination, Patty said she learned months later that Libby wasn’t wearing pants when searchers found her. She also told the court she provided a sample of her own hair two days ago for DNA analysis. Patty claimed she had done this a few times over the years.

The defense revealed in court this week that a hair found with Abby didn’t match their client.

As questioning wrapped up, the state asked if Libby had been exposed to guns. Patty said the family had shotguns for hunting but that no one in the house owned a handgun.

A gun plays a central role in the Delphi murders investigation. Prosecutors allege the suspect, Richard Allen, was armed when he encountered the girls on the trail.

The state says an unspent bullet found at the scene was ejected from a gun owned by Allen.

More family takes the stand​

More members of the German family followed the matriarch by taking the witness stand on Friday.

Kelsi German Siebert, the sister of Libby, was second to speak before the jury. Kelsi said she was very close to her younger sister and was the one who dropped Libby and Abby off at the trail on the fateful day.

The jury saw a glimpse into the happy family as Kelsi shared a selfie taken inside her car as the girls headed to the Monon High Bridge. Libby’s sister then was asked to map out the route she drove from their home to the trail.

Kelsi said she didn’t learn her sister was missing until 4 p.m. She had dropped the girls off at 1:40 p.m.

When asked if she initially thought something awful had happened to her sister, Kelsi said, “No.”

Kelsi helped search for her sister and didn’t learn the girls were found until two women came running up to her, not knowing she was the sister of one of the missing girls, and informed her the two girls had been found.

Like her grandmother, Kelsi told jurors she had provided her DNA to investigators within the last few days.

Following Kelsi on the witness stand was Derrick German, Libby’s father.

Derrick said it was him who was supposed to pick up the girls. But Libby never picked up her phone. Derrick said he called and he called as he pulled up to the trail, but Libby never answered.

According to Derrick’s testimony, he ran into another man while searching for his daughter and her best friend. The man said he didn’t see the girls. He also reportedly didn’t hear any screaming or yelling.

Derrick did his own yelling, though, calling out for Abby and Libby. But there was no response.

Derrick and other family members looked for the girls, but after coming up empty handed he drove to the sheriff’s office. He went back to continue his search and walk the trails.

“By the time I got back to the entrance, I could tell something was up. I just heard mom screaming,” Derrick German said.

Derrick was close to tears, voice breaking, as he recited his recollection of the fateful day he lost his daughter. He recalled seeing the coroner’s van pull up to the scene along with a dozen cop cars.

Shortly before 3:30 p.m. Derrick ended his testimony and the court broke for a recess.

The trial in the long-developing case started with jury selection on Monday in Allen County. The state and defense presented their opening statements on Friday morning.

Matt Christy and Russ McQuaid contributed to this report.
 
If they KNOW the hair is from a female, and they KNOW it is not from Abby or Libby or RA, then they tested it. People saying they didn't test it are being disingenuous.
But they didn't identify it.
And yes, if I were a juror this would ALREADY give me pause. - But this is only one side of the story. Hopefully someone will clear this up. It won't be the last we hear of it.
In the testimony today that i just copied and pasted the two female family witnesses today both said they had given their DNA recently and BP said she had given it several times over the years as well.
The hair could be a transfer hair from Kelsey's vehicle so the possibilities are endless for identification.
 
Last edited:
If they KNOW the hair is from a female, and they KNOW it is not from Abby or Libby or RA, then they tested it. People saying they didn't test it are being disingenuous.
But they didn't identify it.
And yes, if I were a juror this would ALREADY give me pause. - But this is only one side of the story. Hopefully someone will clear this up. It won't be the last we hear of it.
That's how I understood it. They had to have tested it to get that it was female to start with.
 

‘Grandma, I’ll be okay’: Libby German’s grandmother recalls day girls disappeared on Delphi trail​

Becky Patty took the stand for emotional testimony in the Delphi murders trial.

The grandmother of Libby German was the first person called to testify in the proceedings.

She described Libby as “active, very smart, involved in sports” and said she had “tons of friends.”

Her best friend, however, was Abby Williams. They were inseparable, went on vacations together and frequently slept at each other’s houses. They played volleyball and were in band together.

Libby had just turned 14 in December, Patty said, and Abby had spent the night before the girls headed off for a fateful walk.
 

State, defense deliver opening statements in Delphi murders trial​

Opening statements have wrapped up in the Delphi murders case, with the prosecution and defense revealing their respective strategies to jurors.

Richard Allen faces four counts of murder in connection with the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge.

The case went unsolved for years. In October 2022, more than five years after the girls’ deaths, Indiana State Police announced Allen’s arrest.

During opening statements, prosecutor Nick McLeland maintained that Allen is the “Bridge Guy” seen on Libby German’s phone. He said Allen stalked the girls and killed them.

Abby and Libby, McLeland said, were walking on the Monon High Bridge, a “rite of passage” for young people who live in the area. They posted photos on Snapchat and then noticed a man following them on Feb. 13, 2017. The weather was atypically warm for February, the prosecutor said.

The man said, “Guys, down the hill” before Libby’s video cut off. A frantic search followed for the girls, who were then found dead on Feb. 14, 2017.

McCleland said the jury will see graphic photos of the crime scene. The girls’ throats were cut. Libby German was nude and covered in blood. Abby was wearing Libby’s clothes and her throat had also been slit. Their remaining clothes were found in Deer Creek.

Libby’s phone and shoes were under Abby.

According to McLeland, Allen confessed to details only the killer would know.


He also said Allen matches the description of a man seen on the Monon High Bridge minutes before the girls were abducted and killed. He brought up an unspent bullet found at the scene and said it matched a gun owned by Allen.

Allen admitted being on the bridge during a 2017 interview. When investigators brought him in for a second interview, he had no explanation for why he was in the area, the prosecutor told the court.

McLeland said Allen planned to “have his way” with the girls but was interrupted and then killed them.
 
9 a.m.

Once the court opened, opening statements lasted about an hour. During this time, the defense repeatedly told the jurors “Richard Allen is innocent.” The defense also said the girls were injured with two different knives. The prosecution told them there was plenty of evidence that would show Allen killed Williams and German in February 2017 near the Delphi High Bridge.

11 a.m.

After a brief recess, the court resumed with the first witness being called to the stand a few minutes past 11:00 a.m.

Judge Gull did make a ruling today about the use of sketches that were circulated as law enforcement officials searched for the person wanted in the murder case. Judge Gull determined the sketches will not be allowed as evidence in the trial of Richard Allen.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,279
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom