LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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@Tresir it also says in here the phone that RA used in 2017 was not found at his house. See how much most reporting is missing?

Now while that doesn't mean they couldn't get any phone records, I'm guessing they don't have much that way like seeing him looking at his stock ticker, pings as to where he was, etc. Man thank God he and Kathy had stocks... Sorry to all, couldn't help he sarcasm... He had stocks but had no clue what an atty for a murder charge or two or more would cost...

I am going to be really messed up on sleep, etc. but am wide awake now at the wrong time. Should go to bed but now not tired one bit...
Yes I saw that, but cannot always remember where. So the geofencing data will be key IMO. I also think they found something damning in the search, like underwear or some such, that the D wanted to get the search warrant tossed.

Yes he had stocks and a job and owned a house - so why does he need a public defender?
 
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this part is ridiculous. but let's remember, it is "news".

But while the state had no explanation the defense has forwarded one. Their theory is that Libby and Abby were moved, in a vehicle, and taken out of range of the nearest cell tower and only returned there in the early hours of the morning to be murdered and dumped at which time the cell phone reconnected to the network.

I'm not impressed that the state has no explanation and cecil is it? Doesn't. but if I had time to listen to Tom and catch up, I'd guess there's a lot more to this and it's not spot on.

But even if it is the defense thing is ludicrous. so yeah someone probably moved them uh huh, and even if true probably RA, so? And purposely taken out of range of any cell tower? Duh, that's ridiculous. And then brought back to that very place to be cut, killed and to bleed out.

I mean COME ON. Can anyone get on board with that? I sure can't. So did RA drive or make one of the girls, with no license, drive...? Little joy ride or some such?

The State however should have been more prepared than this but then I'm finding that coverage is not very good as to what each side is really asking, doing, etc. nor on any of it. I wish I could just catch up on Tom who pretty much is covering every question and response.

It likely isn't going to happen but I will say this, even if it is AFTER this trial is over, I WILL. It wouldn't be the first time I watched all after something was concluded.

A TON is being missed here. However, even though this article is graphic and sensational, they do say a few things others don't.
Who's 'cecil' ?

"I'm not impressed that the state has no explanation and cecil is it? Doesn't. but if I had time to listen to Tom and catch up, I'd guess there's a lot more to this and it's not spot on."
 
RA is a LISK or similar. Seriously. He isn't who some feel him to be, just some clueless average man... Being wrongly accused. And I've said this way back when. Not just now...
I agree with your assessment of him.
Three children died in an Indiana arson house fire-still unsolved. IIRC, it was in or around the Flora area. Which is not far from Delphi.
A female musician was killed a couple of decades ago in Indiana- she was apparently a very high-functioning autistic woman. Murdered and her house set on fire to cover up the murder. Still unsolved. In the Warsaw or Wabash area, I get the two cities confused because they are in the same area of the state. Those are just two unsolved murders. Technically it would be 4 murders.

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It sure seems like they are going out of their way to ensure nobody can do a closer look at this case. No cameras. Turning down a lot of what the defense wants to present, and keeping things from the public eye. Hopefully, someone will get the stuff from a FOIA.

The sticks placed over the bodies are not trying to hide the bodies. If so, it would have to be an incredible idiot to do it that way.
My opinion is he got scared off while he was in the process of throwing limbs on the bodies. He was in the middle of a forest, limbs were plentiful. JMO
 
My opinion is he got scared off while he was in the process of throwing limbs on the bodies. He was in the middle of a forest, limbs were plentiful. JMO
That's how I see it possibly, too. Rushed and had to go for some reason before finishing.

Also, a box cutter fits neatly and safely in a pocket. Most serrated bladed knives aren't as easily and safely pocketed away.
 
I agree with your assessment of him.
Three children died in an Indiana arson house fire-still unsolved. IIRC, it was in or around the Flora area. Which is not far from Delphi.
A female musician was killed a couple of decades ago in Indiana- she was apparently a very high-functioning autistic woman. Murdered and her house set on fire to cover up the murder. Still unsolved. In the Warsaw or Wabash area, I get the two cities confused because they are in the same area of the state. Those are just two unsolved murders. Technically it would be 4 murders.

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Sarah Gibbs was murdered 10 years ago in Warsaw. Is that who you're thinking of?

I dunno. I just have a hard time seeing a murder/arsonist suddenly start hunting in the woods. JMO
 

Delphi murders: Combative testimony from another ‘Bridge Guy’ witness; pathologist testifies on autopsies​

Day 5 of the Delphi murders trial included testimony from a pathologist and another witness who reported seeing “Bridge Guy.”

Latest ‘Bridge Guy’ witness
During Wednesday’s session, Sarah Carbaugh testified.

Carbaugh described herself as “local as you can get” and said she went to the trail daily to walk her dogs. As a teenager, she used to walk on the Monon High Bridge—although she stopped when she was an adult.

She testified that she saw “Bridge Guy” walking down County Road 300 North by the cemetery around 4 p.m. on Feb. 13 while she was driving by. He was hunched over and plodding along with his hands in his pockets.

“I looked at him but he did not make eye contact with me,” she told the court.
I’d like to know what she came across like on the stand in person. From the news report that I was watching last night, she had changed her story a little bit and got mad when defense brought it up. That might make some jury question her integrity. But it probably depends on how it came across live.
 
I’d like to know what she came across like on the stand in person. From the news report that I was watching last night, she had changed her story a little bit and got mad when defense brought it up. That might make some jury question her integrity. But it probably depends on how it came across live.
I saw an account or 2 that said at least one juror reacted to her rude demeanor. Part of me feels like she never should have been on the stand. "Well I said that to start with but no one wrote it down and the video no longer exists". As a juror, starting fresh, I would question her testimony.
 
They are reporting that RA is "barely 5 feet" ???? What a load of bunkum. He is 5 feet 5 inches in his most recent mugshot. This just makes me mad.
I think that's about where I left off, that article and I was reading backwards by then, up from the most recent post.

I don't even have the words for the reporting. I actually thought I was seeing some good reporting and I guess some is as far as traditional news goes. I don't know. I am not going to catch up and I can't keep up with nightly Tom's either as much as I want to and that's what I would do if I could at this point.

The things being reported by the less than responsible ones are so not accurate and the ones by the responsible ones are lacking SO MUCH and just hitting what they think is key.

I guess this is what happens when we don't have anything live or reporters or even responsible YTers like Nate (and yes he is also a YTer, not just a news person) able to type times and notes all day and tweet out etc. even if they can't until break and then they also don't lose their darned SEATS.

We are used to basically question to answer coverage of each witness pretty much even when we can't watch. And believe me even then you are not getting the whole story. I've went and watched witnesses I've read Nate's Tweets on in the Daybell trial you were so great about posting each day, I kept up on breaks by reading those but if you actually then go watch the witness (or hear them since they didn't show them by camera) testify, you will learn things even Nate missed... There is NOTHING like watching the actual testimony yourself. And plenty including myself when I can't do that base their comments and opinions on the coverage and what they think is what happened and never watch or even TRY to watch a single witness if live anyhow...

As to most traditional news or reporters maybe they need to stick to what they are really here for any longer and made to do and that is to give biased political coverage and cover only politics. I've been done with such for a long time but often that's all we have and in this case it certainly is and they just are not someone trying to get out ALL of what is going on in the courtroom.

I really want to stay up with discussion here because we all care about it and have for a long time and waited for this but it's just not accurate coverage. That's on no one here. I feel like I'm hearing 2 different cases and watching two different cases as of last night. I was starting to notice it the night before...

I'm not touting Tom to tout Tom. I don't think he even realized what I am seeing. He's NO crime follower in general and I think this is the first trial he has ever watched, seriously. He is astounded by things like any newbie to a courtroom. BUT he is the type that is giving every single question and answer of a witness, every objection, every by play. It's just who he is and how he is. I know of no one else doing that nightly. Whether he will be able to keep it up I don't know and I already can't keep up even if I just only watched him and did not try to catch up with everyone here who I want to with because we all care about this case.

I'd even have to go back to finish my remarks on that last article, the one I am responding to here.

While it is far from accurate, they say more than many have.

I've been done with traditional news for more years than I can count and if I wanted to be reminded of some of the reasons, I have been, in spades. And I was done before most even realized what was going on and I'm not talking in here, I'm talking out in the world. And for good reason.

I come from maybe one of the last generations who everyone above us and our parents considered news to be fact. News is NEWS and let me tell you my mother is still that way. IF the news channels she watches says it, then it is fact.

And I don't care which one one is talking of or their slant even in politics, it isn't the purpose, to report truth. And they are failing and have been for a long time. It is like how many people go to the theater any longer to see some box office hit? Actually how many are there these days you'd bother with...

People like Vinnie, Nancy Grace, and even some MSM are learning late in the game to do the YT angle or other things but they are still ingrained with the sensational, not up on their facts and more. Nate is quality. Tom is quality. One has to pick their sources. Grizzly is a hard pass. She started out seeming to be but she's not. I could go on.

I don't even know my point any longer other than even what I said and meant about what is good reporting here by a few, better than most, and no bias, is not nearly what is going on in that courtroom. And they HAVE to DO that. Get something out, and LATE due to Gull's rules, and pick the short and best points or only do the length they can get out.

Then we hear the excuses it's not the only thing they have to cover. True. It's hard because they have to hand write and BE THERE or get NOTES from someone from their network that is THERE. True. And then form an article and pick and interpret or even from their own notes or memory. True. And they have lives and kids or whatever. True. And the world or trial does not stop for them or their schedule. True.

But then you have Tom who jumps on live with all of his notes and fresh memory and goes through it all each night. I don't know if he will be able to keep it up but it's like hearing an entirely different case. And he is just giving the questions and he answers in testimony.

And then back to news you have the ones, the less responsible that are twisting. That thing of how the eyewitnesses said everything RA is NOT is so misleading. Go listen to the actual questions and answers. Well we can't, but you can hear someone cover them question by question and answer by answer.

I have waited for this as we all have and my God, the families and I honestly never thought I'd say this but I'm not sure I am going to be able to continue it and I was committed to this one. I'm sure a few are happy to hear that lol.

I'm going to try to a point to discuss here but as of right now I am not caught up and don't intend to try and I feel reading links and news anyhow are not going to give me a full or even close to it picture and I'm not going back and I'm not reading every link. I was doing so but I am finding such a contact with full coverage and traditional news that again I feel like I am reading or watching two different cases.

And this part is going to sound like a broken record but what Gull did here is such a disservice to this entire case as to facts and coverage, even for family who maybe can't be there. And has created nothing but trouble. I even have to agree with @Cousin Dupree on this one it is a bad look. I don't tend to believe it was done for the same reasons but I'm not decided either. The people in court can't even hear some of the questions and answers so the 4 mill plus really made it great didn't it...

I can tell you this too and I think I said it or alluded to it last night, the defense is testifying as all do. They put false facts in their questions. I gave the example of when you were in Dodge why didn't you do this, but you were never in Dodge. That's what they did with the younger witness. I didn't even finish listening to Tom give every question and answer as it sent me so over the top I was done and of course no hint of that anywhere here. And again that's not at anyone here, it is at the coverage by news.

It's like back to the fly or critter thing as well. We are simply getting a blizzard of b.s. and putting false facts in questions and if anyone wonders why I detest defense attys for the most part well there ya go. It shouldn't be a game and a Hollywood fake drama, it's people's lives on both sides. And then one has reporters and the public who can't see between the lines and beyond such tactics. And it also assumes the jurors can't and are dumb.

I'd say most reporters are. Thankfully most jurors that would give up their time probably know better, anyone younger would be ranting about they can't serve because the hours and time needed don't revolve around their schedule or that of their kids and not want to serve.

Okay. It turned into a rant and I've read not a thing.

I may well let this trial go on, end and then go back and watch all of Tom at my leisure over the next year or so and that bites as I waited for this as we all have. IF he makes it through.

Imo this should end traditional news, much should have by now. Let them just stick to the paid agenda. And again, here have been some pretty good reports, considering it is traditional news but it is nowhere CLOSE to full coverage.
 
I saw an account or 2 that said at least one juror reacted to her rude demeanor. Part of me feels like she never should have been on the stand. "Well I said that to start with but no one wrote it down and the video no longer exists". As a juror, starting fresh, I would question her testimony.
I saw this out of context and have no read all. are we talking the one that saw him on the road? she came across strong and the best and yes did not let the D bully her and got what so many are told not to do, which is ridiculous, insistent and they went at it a bit.

Are people really thinking the P has got how many witnesses changing their story and threatening them or something?? She said she always said muddy and bloody but that they didn't put the one in their report. Not hard to believe with the Barney Fife gang is it? She says she SAID it. From the start. and I'd resist someone trying to tell me otherwise when on the stand also. I've seen so many junk police reports in my life it isn't even funny, in jobs. I gave a statement once at length, in shock, at my kitchen table. Then it was written up, handwritten, and I assumed the officer put down exactly what mattered of what I said and I signed it. When I looked at it months later, it was like you did not put in these key facts. It wasn't even that what was in there was false, it was that it simply was not a full account.

I've seen it both personally and in jobs, many times.

I believe this witness and it is right in there with the apparent slide down the hill, the damp clothing and clothing in the creek. She was the strongest one yet. And he would have been muddy and bloody. And plodding along, head down, hands in pockets.

This investigation sure had its things. I am not going to deny that. However, to think as some are that there is some conspiracy that involves young girls on the trails, a woman driving down the road, a woman 50 feet away who thought him younger etc. who were really there and that they are all lying and have been told to is absolutely ridiculous.

I am not responding to you or at you, I hope you know that by now. I am not even sure that is what this post is about. And admit it. I am talking of the witness who saw him walking, is that what is talked of here?

This is what this judge's decision has done. No one can watch and judge for themselves with different reports of wheher someone was just sticking up for oneself, whether they thought truthful, etc.

I have probably come across as a Gull fan but she has about destroyed this imo with this coverage decision. For everyone. Families from both sides. Different interpretations from those in the courtroom and those that want to slant are doing so, speculation and more.

Broken record but secretiveness and lack of transparency leads to nothing good. Seeing a case where much is put out and transparent is entirely different. There is not nearly the sh*t that goes on here, what results is discussion of what is KNOWN. By most people. There will always be some idiots online and such.

Madeline Soto, one of the most recent arguably huge ones out there with back and forths about the mother and Regina and I talk it in the thread here BUT we have the actual interviews, documents, etc.. EVERYONE out there does. So much better.

I did not even know I was going to hit it but last night I did. I didn't realize the differences going on until I was listening to Tom with a play by play of all day the day before but I'd already read all the links here on that day and not even CLOSE to seeming like the same case.

Right now I am NOT a fan of Judge Gull. And I've agreed with most of her decisions and still do but she absolutely affected this case with the coverage decision. BIG TIME.

And HOW can anyone NOT suspect not even a voice recorder allowed or a recording by the court of the day's testimony that they are sure they did and provided? She went too far. And it's having a terrible effect. I can't even read any longer as things are not as they are at all.

And attendees in the courtroom can't even hear some questions and answers. Not sure why as it isn't like keyboards are clacking away...
 
Okay. I probably need to leave. I'm not caught up but would love to discuss with all here as we all care, but am done with the news thing. No patience for what is going on right now and I don't mean in here, I mean in this case. Been done with traditional news for a long, long time and it is just a reminder of many reasons why.

And traditional news is unable to cover if they don't have their team and their recorders and wouldn't do it well anyhow.

I pity the families big time on all sides. My God.
 
That's how I see it possibly, too. Rushed and had to go for some reason before finishing.

Also, a box cutter fits neatly and safely in a pocket. Most serrated bladed knives aren't as easily and safely pocketed away.
Some box cutters have retractable blades too. I have a couple like that so they are easy to keep in a pocket without stabbing oneself accidentally. I use one for opening animal feed bags and cutting baling twine.Screenshot_20241024-185954_Chrome.jpg
 
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Some box cutters have retractable blades too. I have a couple like that so they are easy to keep in a pocket without stabbing oneself accidentally. I use one for opening animal feed bags and cutting baling twine
I could comment on this but it would be blind as haven't read a thing here today or even caught up last night so am not commenting with knowing the conversation or testimony but I can tell you about work box cutters. where I work there are free safety ones. when I started it was relayed to me that is what they use because with a real one someone cut their finger off once or some such. Took me some time as a newbie but realized others were using real box cutters. do you know what is more dangers? the work safety ones. I don't do much freight these days but they are worthless, like a bad knife and if you keep them in your pocket, just three weeks ago I cut two fingertips that keep breaking open ever day since with everything I do. By reeaching in my pocket for something. They also don't open a box worth a sh*t so most get a real box cutter once one realizes it is a work rule but if you do it is at your own risk. THOSE go in our pocket with the blade retracted. There is no open blad on the work provided ones but there is blade in between the cheap plastic and that's what my fingers hit reaching into my pocket for something else. On a retractale NO blade is exposed and they think those aren't safer??

Anyhow i'm sure this likely doesn't relate to the conversation but I can tell you no precision cuts were made by a work provided box cutter if they are anything like our work provided ones. You can hardly open a box with them they are so cheap and worthless. You'd have jagged all over the place.

I shouldn't even be commenting as I'm not up on anything. Just came in and is where I landed. just giving some corporate work provided box cutter info...
 
Wow. They set the stage.

And it seemed as if they were but we are now getting to where we awaited... When will it become about RA...

 
I am not going to catch up so...

And not always a big fan of Lauren and John but they do put a LOT into it and she does attend...
 

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