Aren't flies somewhat active in the winter? I mean I can see predators not being there.
By the time the girls were killed, they were already heading into sundown or close to it and the temp would have been dropping in my opinion. Even if they were out due to the arm weather and I somewhat doubt it's that instant but even if it was, they'd be dormant or done for in short order again. They'd never be what the D was talking, something that had activity on the girls and been on them for long enough to determine time of death. Those kinds of cases where it has been beneficial are bodies that have been missing for a period of time, not under 24 hours as is the case of the girls, for instance it takes how long to lay and for larvae to develop etc. And I don't think it's only flies either.
There would be NO bug activity at all on these girls imo, and I'm just an average layperson. No way, no how. They are also in the woods, not out in the open at 1 or 2 p.m. on this unusually sunny day. it would be cool and getting cooler fast. The low one witness LE said was 34, that's 2 degrees above freezing and I assume he meant for the 13th but probably the wee hours of the 14th too. Flies would not be active.
As to critters, well, I think the smell of human blood would scare most. Any that would attract to it again it would be cool soon and quickly and so you one is, unable to put it gently, not smelling something rotting like a body a week in the Florida bush, etc. nor is it June. I'm not sure, but I could see a deer possibly being curious but I think they'd be more wary and they are not carnivores.
I just think both questions and follow up on them was ridiculous. I think those girls would have been in perfect condition and I don't mean that in irony, I mean the way they were left is the way they remained and the cool temps would have held things as they were and it wasn't long the next day before they were found...
The things he was asking do not fit bodies found in a 24 hour period in the winter/Feb in the Midwest (do you consider yourself Midwest, I do count IN as Midwest, or part of a five state area anyhow) but could be incorrect. I do know if you get towards southern IN it can be a lot warmer but still we have winters.
These things DO fit and have been used in bodies left a long time or in major heat, humidity, things like that, they don't fit this one.
Anyhow, no, even a few flies buzzed to life that day I doubt they did in that area and at that time and I'm not even sure that would even happen...
They were just dumb questions imo lol.
And not trying to be offensive
Another way to put it is the first unseasonably warm day here and there in the winter and you get outside, how many bugs do you deal with? None in my experience. That wont' happen with one warm day, it isn't season yet. Now they will come to life, dormant ones, inside your home or shed if warm enough... Or sun hitting and warm enough. Some will.
They were also with lights searching was it til like 2 with lights etc. and the next morning back early. It was very few hours animals wouldn't have heard people in the woods, seen light, etc.
And I'm actually explaining too much and not sure why except just wound down my work week and finally can say ahhhhh for a moment and change modes. And then I had a few errands, finally got home to get shoes and all off and relax, and realized I had left my phone at work so that plan ended and back to work I had to go to get it.
I have no doubts neither things, bugs nor critters apply here nor would LE, experts, investigators nor anyone else look for such or expect them to have been present in any capacity.
Kind of like I said to Tesir, a ton of leaves and just ground would go back to being crunchy as the temp cooled again and before it rose the next day (IF the next day was even unseasonably warm still, not sure if we know that). Just because it was in the 50s that day (and I had thought it was 40s but recently heard 50s) nothing is going to be fully thawed in one day and it will be right back to frozen or close to it over the night...
Pretty much my first post on catching up and such always seems to involve my getting lengthy after a work week. This was the one. Sorry.
Anyhow back to your post, even if they did come to life, bug activity is going to have nothing to do with determining time of death re these girls in less than a 24 hour period. And mostly overnight.
The first hard frost finally kills them all off here in the fall/winter. But if they are outside before that even they are barely functioning at low temps, doesn't even have to be freezing. If in the home, flies can just go dormant... Weird things. Lol.
I have no idea what they do if outside. Well I imagine they freeze and die if caught in a frost or if holed up somewhere they for sure go dormant. Speaking flies probably most specifically. Bees go dormant too pretty sure but never heard of bees being used to do with dead bodies. It is always maggots generally, and so on...
I'm sorry that I'm all over the place, I should have just simply said no, it isn't possible in this case, in this length of time, in this month, in the hours from what 4 p.m. to when found the next day. Critters not much different. Bears are in hibernation. Deer wouldn't attract to dead bodies other than maybe curiosity and I think it would scare them off actually. Deer are active mainly around dusk and dawn and they do at times scrounge for food in the winter which is why so many leave some corn up these days, etc. As well as for sn*w breaks. Only during rut does that pattern change as to time for the most part.
I'm just going on for I don't know what reason other than trying to transition. LOL. I need to stop.
The basic answer is between the cool temps, the fact his was mostly overnight and they were found in under 24 hours would limit smell to animals, bugs for the many reasons mentioned would not be an issue, etc. or would not last much past it dropping to 40 even...
They were simply dumb questions that would only relate or be used in totally different kinds of cases exposed to different elements for far longer. That's really the overall point.
I'm just now reading since this morning so I'd bet I am not even on the same subject the rest of you are by now after another full day of trial.
One other thing I'd just add re critters. Clearly no critter took off with them or a part of them (again hate talking about them like that), there was no animal damage to them (I think putting that that way is enough for all to know what I mean) so again what was his point...? No animal attacked them or moved them, that's clear as can be.
I probably should go back and do this over and shorten it. Lol. But in the length, the points are really there. Maybe they were just filling time and trying to get into not trying all means on determination of time of death but at the time he wasn't even asking the right person about time of death... So it could have been just that, filling time, giving the jury things to listen to and think about, or they are just that clueless.
I just found it ridiculous and would have as a juror quite honestly. Picking at nothing that could even be relevant here.
And put too much time into it now lol. I'll move on. I think it's a non-issue. However I may well have laughed or rolled my eyes as a juror or someone in the courtroom watching the trial.
And I'm not saying this to even go at them, they've hit some real points
I dont' know what I am going to do. I've got Tom on from last night yet playing and he has so very much tons more detail on all the questions and answers re the cell phone and so much more and I want to hear it all, but now there's another day and new one I will be behind on...
And I am saying he has basically EVERY single question and answer. He has the objections, all of it. Whatever he's doing, he's got it all... I can't even explain how far beyond anything by any traditional media. He has 65 pages of notes for just yesterday. And major detail. I thought I'd at least be able to get in his show each night but so far, haven't been able to and then I catch up or try to here as well but not sure I'd keep up with his anyhow.
So now this has I guess become a catching up on it all post for me. He seems to have every P question of every witness, every D question of every witness... And the responses. He's hit his figuring out how to do it each day all day I guess. He's no longer trying to go eat at any point during the day, or night, He's writing every time they have a few minutes or a break. while all is fresh. This is like listening to a byplay or reading tweets from Nate of every moment almost what Tom has. Every question, every answer. He's hit his stride and he is already a type that is a bit anal about details. I mean that in an affectionate way.
And yes, I need to stop. Turning into a wandering post where I think I'll just catch up all at once or something.
I saw someone yesterday was it saying they didn't feel there was much or much interesting testimony, etc... Well there's a ton more detail than anything I read...I've seen some very good reporting (not all) but some, but it does not cover all these details... And the phone thing is HUGE. What I'm listening to now from yesterday...
Anyhow, glad we are all here (not me other than blipping in morning or night not part of the day's news) as we have all cared about this one for a LONG time.
en.wikipedia.org
www.crimewatchers.net
