LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Delphi murders: Jurors watch video extracted from Libby German’s phone​

One of the most famous—or infamous—pieces of the Delphi murders puzzle is video taken from Libby German’s phone.

The grainy image of “Bridge Guy” was taken from a video extracted from Libby’s phone. During Tuesday’s testimony, Brian Bunner, a digital forensic expert with Indiana State Police, discussed his efforts to retrieve data from it.

Jurors watched as 43 seconds of video captured from Libby’s phone was played in the courtroom on Tuesday.

The video captured flashes of Abby and Libby along with a man, the “Bridge Guy,” walking in the distance.
Is this going to be made public?
 
I'm sorry but idiot. Insect activity in February?? Give me a break. Or critter activity when it was at least down to 34 that night... I have to laugh. So many go down this path that don't know sh*t about rural life. In so many cases. And if there had been such in less than 24 hours that would mean what exactly? NOTHING. And of course there wasn't. If a deer came close, curious, is the most I could picture. Stupid questions.

JMO of course. Did they die between the 13th and when found on the 14th, well DUH.

This is AT the D, and not anything otherwise.
Maybe he is trying to get the "brought back to the scene" after midnight to match the 4.33 a.m. phone ping? I think the body temperature of the girls and rigor mortis should determine TOD quite accurately. Maybe today the medical examiner will elaborate. Also, very few insects in February, even here in UK where winters are milder than Indiana. Even if there was, then not enough daylight for that to happen as it was dark by 5 pm and probably only light by about 9pm the next day IMO.
 
Another thing, these days it is about couldn't you have done this or that and any D can come up with all sorts of sh*t.

Re the endless questions about the bullet, it had me thinking of other crime scenes, searches, etc... t'he day the kids were found in Daybell. Did the play or show every last close up of every little bit of Tylee being taken and put in or on whatever... How about the LISK searches in the home, more than one... I don't doubt they recorded but were they getting every single thing taken, tossed in the house, put into a bag, etc... There IS a photo of the bullet or cartridge embedded in the ground, more than one I think, and that's the big thing, dated, etc. There were was there were in LISK, Daybell, several LE present AND from different agencies... State, local, etc.

If I'm a juror I am going to get all o that when weighing it and I'm going to come out on that side. NO ONE then was thinking about anything how many years later or a man named RA who just happened to place himself there. The bullet/cartridge WAS THERE. He WAS THERE.
Re the bullet, has anything come out yet about the keepsake bullet from his house matching the ejector marks on the CS bullet?
 
Maybe he is trying to get the "brought back to the scene" after midnight to match the 4.33 a.m. phone ping? I think the body temperature of the girls and rigor mortis should determine TOD quite accurately. Maybe today the medical examiner will elaborate. Also, very few insects in February, even here in UK where winters are milder than Indiana. Even if there was, then not enough daylight for that to happen as it was dark by 5 pm and probably only light by about 9pm the next day IMO.
They don't have body temperature of the girls at the scene because all we've heard so far is they didn't take it.

However, we have now heard the ground was saturated with blood so they obviously were attacked and bled out where they were found. I remember at some point LE saying they may have been moved. Not so.
 
They don't have body temperature of the girls at the scene because all we've heard so far is they didn't take it.

However, we have now heard the ground was saturated with blood so they obviously were attacked and bled out where they were found. I remember at some point LE saying they may have been moved. Not so.
The D is likely going to propose they were taken and brought back alive in the early a.m and killed then. We havent heard from the coroner or medical examiner yet though have we? They would be the ones who would do that to determine TOD.
 
They are known to come out on a nice day here.
Even if there were flies in February, which i highly doubt, the bodies were not there long enough to get fly blown.

This link explains body temperature drop and insect stages. The absolute longest the girls could have been at the CS before discovery of their bodies was 22 hours only.


Algor mortis​


Algor mortis (from Latin algor 'coldness' and mortis 'of death'), the third stage of death, is the change in body temperature post mortem, until the ambient temperature is matched. This is generally a steady decline, although if the ambient temperature is above the body temperature (such as in a hot desert), the change in temperature will be positive, as the (relatively) cooler body equalizes with the warmer environment. External factors can have a significant influence.

Timeline of postmortem changes, with algor mortis represented by red temperature line
The term was first used by Bennet Dowler in 1849.<a href="Algor mortis - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> The first published measurements of the intervals of temperature after death were done by John Davy in 1839.<a href="Algor mortis - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a><a href="Algor mortis - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a>
 
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Here's where Bob saw the issue he mentioned previously for the state.


The thing is that most of the witnesses were the three young girls and he himself admits to seeing them so they definitely saw him. When I was a teenager, I could not judge people's ages at all so i think that them saying 20 - 30 is a young persons guess. They definitely saw him, which gives us his arrival time. Then his stock ticker should give the approx time he was on the bridge, which we know was a similar time to when the witness saw him on the bridge, then she passed Abby and Libby very shortly afterwards. That combined with the bullet match to his gun plus the confessions should seal it IMO.
 
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This is an updating link. The forensic pathologist who performed the autopsies is just on the stand ATM.

Kohr estimated that the girls died approximately 41 hours before the autopsy. So far, the date and time he did the autopsy is not revealed, but as an example 41 hours from 3 pm Monday would be 8 a.m. Wednesday morning.

 
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Here's where we are at today.



WARNING - GRAPHIC.

This is the text from the Wish TV link i posted above about the autopsy. It is more specific than Fox. Donald Kohr, the forensic pathologist, called them incision wounds.

"The first autopsy was performed on Abby. Kohr noted Abby’s clothing, any physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. He said that Abby had a 1-inch deep, 3-inch long incision wound on her neck. She also had a faint mark under her mouth, which Kohr said could be from duct tape or cloth. Abby showed no signs of blunt force trauma or restraint wounds. He said that though the rape kit showed no “overt injury patterns,” it does not mean that sexual contact didn’t occur.

Libby German’s autopsy was performed second. Kohr also noted her clothing, physical injuries, and performed a rape kit. The autopsy report said Libby had anywhere from three to five incision wounds on the right side of her neck, the largest being around 3.5 inches long. She also showed no signs of overt sexual trauma or defensive wounds.

Kohr estimated that the girls died approximately 41 hours before the autopsy.

Defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross examination and discussed Kohr’s deposition from February 2024. Kohr’s deposition included information about the attack and speculations on the girls’ reactions after being attacked. He said in the February deposition that he couldn’t determine if the killer was left or right handed and that a serrated knife may have been used.

Kohr then said after his deposition that a box cutter may have been used instead of a serrated knife, but did not inform the defense. News 8’s Kyla Russell said Rozzi showed upset in the courtroom after Kohr admitted his uncertainty about the weapon used and did not file a new report."

Woah, he mentioned a box cutter. When did we first hear about the box cutter confession?
 
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I have found when we first heard about the boxcutter. It was at the 3 day hearing in August.


"Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman also gave damning testimony about Allen’s alleged confessions, telling the court a fellow inmate had come forward to claim that Allen had not only confessed – but had revealed his chosen murder weapon.

Allen allegedly claimed he killed Libby and Abby with a boxcutter and disposed of it by throwing it in a dumpster outside CVS.

Allen’s defense has long argued that his confessions were the result of his poor mental health after being treated like a “prisoner of war” in state prison while awaiting trial.

They are fighting to have Allen’s own incriminating words dismissed as evidence."
 
I have found when we first heard about the boxcutter. It was at the 3 day hearing in August.


"Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman also gave damning testimony about Allen’s alleged confessions, telling the court a fellow inmate had come forward to claim that Allen had not only confessed – but had revealed his chosen murder weapon.

Allen allegedly claimed he killed Libby and Abby with a boxcutter and disposed of it by throwing it in a dumpster outside CVS.

Allen’s defense has long argued that his confessions were the result of his poor mental health after being treated like a “prisoner of war” in state prison while awaiting trial.

They are fighting to have Allen’s own incriminating words dismissed as evidence."
And now, the ME speculated a box cutter might have been used. Or a serrated blade. Surely that can be narrowed down?
 
And now, the ME speculated a box cutter might have been used. Or a serrated blade. Surely that can be narrowed down?
Obviously not or he would have done so, i imagine. An either/or situation. And RA confessed to the CVS boxcutter disposed of in a dumpster. So it's looking good for the prosecution. The amount of blood at the CS and only 22 hours till discovery, plus only 41 hours from the TOD by the ME doesn't give time for a second crime scene IMO.
 
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NSFW Autopsy findings in Delphi murders trial shocks jury

Article from the dailymail.com site contains graphic word descriptions of the girls' fatal injuries as described to the jury today. Photos were shown to the jury, including autopsy photos, but are not in the article. Photos in the article are Bridge Guy video, the accused, and several of Abby and Libby that we have seen before where they are smiling at the camera.
 

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