LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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He has NOT been convicted of a crime. If this is true, it's completely inhumane.
You're right. He's not convicted. I think my reaction was based mostly on being jaded about others playing the system. But it shouldn't be.
Mistreatment in jail absolutely does occur. And when it does, it should be dealt with. (Our entire prison system needs an overhaul, but that's going to have to be a conversation for another day.)
I think it's natural to be suspicious of claims. We see defendants all the time crying "inhumane circumstances" for not getting meals they like and more.
That being said, I did find this article about jails in Indiana particularly interesting. And the included picture. It's from about 18 months ago.

Since 2010 the IDOC has allowed 84% of Indiana's counties to continue operating jails while they repeatedly violated two of the state's most important safety standards. The counties routinely crowded their jails past capacity or failed to hire enough corrections officers. Or both.

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This arrest feels "off" because, I think, of the facts that are sealed. It feels "off" because it came entirely out of the blue and he was unknown to any of us and right under their nose. It feels "off" because just before it there was all the activity with Kline and then "bam" someone totally different and again unheard of is arrested. I entirely get feeling that way and I think again the biggest reason is they have not shared all of what I would hope are real and solid facts and evidence relating to his guilt. I'd also add that we couldn't go, the minute we saw him, oh yes, THAT is bridge guy or THAT is the guy in those crazy and different sketches.

I get it, I certainly do, that feeling... It's almost as if they arrested someone due to pressure and because they couldn't make Kline fit, couldn't find the killer, had egg on their faces, etc.

Remember that he places himself there as do all the others with basically no one else that could have come in between all the other people there. And more.

Abuse is one thing but expecting jail/prison to be a hotel is another and I for one don't agree it should be. This man, if true of course, lost his beer, his freedom, is outed to his family (if they believe it) and his friends. He can't operate as he was free as a bird and likely isn't liking it. I find his attorneys not being able to travel 20 miles absolutely ridiculous. It is just as likely they don't want to with public defender rates. Private attorneys do so at great charge.

I don't see anything real or any evidence of it in their complaint on his behalf. Why if so bad aren't they traveling there? Seriously?

If this is a trumped up faked charge against him I will be the first to agree or change my mind. I think if the sealed b.s. were released, we would know whether he deserves to be incarcerated or not.
 
Someone said something about traveling 20 miles? It's a minimum of an hour and a half from his attorney's office to Westville, where he is.
Looking to find where I read that, I swore I got it from the article about his condition, etc. but not seeing it now. If I'm wrong, my apologies but I truly read that somewhere or took something to mean that.

Regardless, contact with his attorneys is protected and attorneys travel to see clients. They may not find it ideal but it isn't anything new. Wasn't long ago tablets etc. wouldn't have been an option either. Are they saying they can't do even a facetime, zoom or other video talk with their client either? I just don't see anything of substance in this complaint nor proof of some of the claims.
 
I'm just reading stuff with a neutral mindset. This stuck out to me.


Cardella said $425,000 is not an unreasonable number, given how damaging solitary can be on individuals. The punishment, which has become more controversial over time, can cause severe depression, distortions and hallucinations, nightmares and lower levels of brain function, according to the Vera Institute of Justice.
 
I now see what I did. Where they want him moved would be 20 miles from them. I thought it was where he was that was 20 miles. Apologies. I did read the article but quickly. Thought it better to read before commenting but I still got it wrong :(

Also, it says the comparison pictures, the first one is a year or two before his arrest.... WHY? If legal counsel is going to make a serious claim, some reason they wouldn't use a picture of just before his arrest...??? That right there begs questions of validity.

Afford little if any recreation time. Is it little? Or is it any? I hate that phrase in general. I don't think most prisoners get a lot, it's a little.

Just saying there isn't enough here for me. If they have something they can show back up for then I may change my mind.
 
I'm just reading stuff with a neutral mindset. This stuck out to me.


Cardella said $425,000 is not an unreasonable number, given how damaging solitary can be on individuals. The punishment, which has become more controversial over time, can cause severe depression, distortions and hallucinations, nightmares and lower levels of brain function, according to the Vera Institute of Justice.
No time to read it but I will say does anyone know how damaging murder is to the murdered victim who is dead and does anyone know how it damages the victim's families? The convicted deserve humane treatment but little more imo. Do wrong or bad things go in some prisons? I'm sure. But do inmates cause trouble and make false complaints? I'm sure. And this tendency these days to treat a convicted felon as the VICTIM is SICKENING.

I do KNOW Allen is not convicted. I am talking generally and when one is convicted.
 
No time to read it but I will say does anyone know how damaging murder is to the murdered victim who is dead and does anyone know how it damages the victim's families? The convicted deserve humane treatment but little more imo. Do wrong or bad things go in some prisons? I'm sure. But do inmates cause trouble and make false complaints? I'm sure. And this tendency these days to treat a convicted felon as the VICTIM is SICKENING.

I do KNOW Allen is not convicted. I am talking generally and when one is convicted.
I, personally, don't think prison should be a resort. But I do believe there are basic human rights that need to be respected no matter what you think of someone. We aren't animals.

I am sorry for the trauma you have endured.
 
I, personally, don't think prison should be a resort. But I do believe there are basic human rights that need to be respected no matter what you think of someone. We aren't animals.

I am sorry for the trauma you have endured.
I think it should be humane. I think they should get a few things although nothing many in the outside world don't have and that includes cable, tablets, pizza parties, etc. Books? Yes (not how to make a bomb kind of books or get rid of a body kind of books!) Shampoo? Yes. Soap? Yes. Medications? Yes. Although I've said bread and water in the past over the years, I guess I don't mean that but I disagree with treats and such (many in the real world don't have them) at least for murderers or the worst felons. I don't know that I even agree with commissary or whatever they call it other than for needs.

Don't get me wrong, if someone isn't convicted or was falsely accused it would be so unfair to have to deal with such but that would be true no matter what the conditions or situation. Falsely accused more so as if they are kept without bond before conviction, there is probable cause already shown.

Thank you for your care but just so you know, this opinion isn't just because of that at all. That would have added weight to what was already my opinion. People who CLEARLY have done major wrongdoing being treated humanely is already more care than what they showed for their victims, I don't think they deserve much or anything more than that.
 
What I don't understand is why the Carroll County Sheriff Department are opposed to Cass County Jail's housing of the inmate.
I don't know how it is there but here guarding a high profile criminal doesn't go on in most county jails. Our jails are mostly full of DUIs, maybe drug offenses awaiting trial and maybe an occasional murderer, etc. but no one is guarded 24/7, etc. to my knowledge, on a personal basis I mean. If such happened, I'd imagine many a county would have to farm such an inmate out where they are used to handling such things. Just the cost alone and I'm not even sure they have segregation areas for such an offender in our county jails.

There are also charges or there are for us. When one of our county justice centers with jail was up for referendum (new building, etc. they wanted), an argument was how much we spent to house our inmates in other counties when full. They further wanted to add enough cells and beds so we could MAKE money housing inmates from other counties.

Maybe something like that plays in..., what each would charge Carroll? And maybe Carroll just doesn't trust he will be secure enough in a county jail. The last thing they'd want after finally getting "their guy" in this case after all these years would be losing him to murder, suicide or escape...

Just thoughts.
 
I don't know how it is there but here guarding a high profile criminal doesn't go on in most county jails. Our jails are mostly full of DUIs, maybe drug offenses awaiting trial and maybe an occasional murderer, etc. but no one is guarded 24/7, etc. to my knowledge, on a personal basis I mean. If such happened, I'd imagine many a county would have to farm such an inmate out where they are used to handling such things. Just the cost alone and I'm not even sure they have segregation areas for such an offender in our county jails.

There are also charges or there are for us. When one of our county justice centers with jail was up for referendum (new building, etc. they wanted), an argument was how much we spent to house our inmates in other counties when full. They further wanted to add enough cells and beds so we could MAKE money housing inmates from other counties.

Maybe something like that plays in..., what each would charge Carroll? And maybe Carroll just doesn't trust he will be secure enough in a county jail. The last thing they'd want after finally getting "their guy" in this case after all these years would be losing him to murder, suicide or escape...

Just thoughts.
I would think they could put him in solitary. I'm sure their prison population is significantly less than Westville. Then he could get visits from attorney, wife, and daughter.
 
I would think they could put him in solitary. I'm sure their prison population is significantly less than Westville. Then he could get visits from attorney, wife, and daughter.
I'm not sure most county jails have "solitary". And while Westville may have a larger population, they also have a much larger staff. I know counties where the dispatcher is also the jailer at times. And their facilities aren't the same nor as big by a long shot. So what, every time Allen needed to shower, get yard time, have a visit, etc., it would have to be with a guard, probably two in a separate location that the other inmates can't be using like during visiting hours?

Here is another thing, when he goes to prison assuming he's convicted his family will be in the same boat. Prisons generally are not in your county.

And nowadays they can Zoom and all else. Let me tell you when I heard that with our deal I was not happy. It has EXPANDED visiting hours to almost daily visits, etc. by computer or tablet. They can't touch anyhow and in county it is through a glass with a telephone too quite often, so what are his wife and daughter losing seeing each other's faces on the screen? I mean he can even see his dog if they have one. You know what it is stopping, is an attempted PRIVATE talk which isn't a right of an inmate/prisoner. It IS with your attorney and if I have it right attorneys can visit aside from visiting hours. None of at least this part of that complaint holds water imo. You know if he had happened to kill someone five counties away, he'd also be a long drive from them EVEN if kept in that county's jail, etc. I don't see it as a right nor do I think it should be one. Do most of us want a state penitentiary and even a federal pen facility in our towns? Nope. And as I said in an earlier post, some counties even house NON high profile inmates in other counties due to lack of space and again the family has to drive to see them in person, but not to see them on a screen at home or by phone. This part isn't even worth complaining about imo. If you ask me, the problem with wife and daughter is that they want to try to talk to him privately. Well the ONE time I ever visited someone in a county jail, there was the glass between and you picked up a phone on each side of it. Yep. The visiting rooms we see on TV? Those are in prisons.

Now conditions and treatment might hold water but I'm not sold on that either so far.
 
I don't know how it is there but here guarding a high profile criminal doesn't go on in most county jails.
It strikes me as an unusual circumstance, but in this instance, if Cass Co is confident in their ability to house him, then I don't see a problem. According to that article, the prosecutor isn't opposed, seems it's only the Carroll Co Sheriff who's opposed.
 
It strikes me as an unusual circumstance, but in this instance, if Cass Co is confident in their ability to house him, then I don't see a problem. According to that article, the prosecutor isn't opposed, seems it's only the Carroll Co Sheriff who's opposed.
Yeah, I don't know. What I do figure is we likely don't know the half of it and he is already housed and I am not convinced of any real complaints with substance or proof so why move him? This isn't about dancing to the family of a charged defendant and he isn't the first whose family may have to travel which is somewhat bull as again they can video conference and all these days and actually see them more. The comparison picture they used was at least from a year or even two or more ago it says so that too begs questions.

It is just like doing constant motions to lower bond and this and that and again, if there is real abuse or cause here, then show it.

If Cass County is confident, imo, so what? Time and pay to move, set up, do it all over again, etc. He isn't special and I'm sorry his family is no more special than anyone in such circumstances either. If there isn't any need for this and he wants to be in gen pop... But why move him from one already secured place to another? And just bercause Cass says they are confident in their abilities, I also don't see where that means a thing. He77 look at Epstein and he had or was supposed to have 24/7 coverage.

Again, nothing they filed do I see any "teeth" in or real cause. Jmo.
 
I'm free thinking here.

I think the original judge freaked out for some reason and just set this whole high-risk HELP WE NEED SECURITY STAT thing in motion.

Leaving Allen in Westville is just asking for trouble on appeal. It is not usual to stash an alleged killer in a state prison.

Look at what's going on in Idaho. County jails have managed to keep Lori and Chad Daybell and Bryan Kohberger in one piece. I'm fairly confident an Indiana county jail can keep this guy alive.

This is overkill.
 

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