LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Well I won't be home for it or able to watch live but I always try to watch his in full when I get moments. Fo others:

 
Was your bullet/casing there? You go to Wegman's with a gun and eject a round after probably threatening?

Where else were you that day? Do we know anything more about his day and other's accounts/

NOTHING that has been done even by the defense removes RA. I am not opposed to there MAY have been another involved but I do not lean towards it.

Also does Wegman's or your city have cameras? Like Libby did?

Like I said NONE of us know all, INCLUDING me but to fall for defense selective b.s. in every case where they play it to the public and the blizzards, without ever hearing what prosecution has is really assuming.

Nothing has taken away the basic facts here, not a thing the defense has done but has some so off seeing it, it is something else. He placed himself there. NOTHING has removed him even if Os joined him. Which they did not. There is sooooo MUCH we don't know. But even with what we do, they have not accomplished that with all their efforts. He CONFESSED. REPEATEDLY. Hey I'm all for releasing some of this stuff to stop the ridiculous b.s. Not at the risk of the case against the killer of these TWO YOUNG GIRLS though.

I took think our system needs to change. Defense should NOT be ABLE to circumvent a gag order and intentionally do PR and b.s. blitz in the guise of just filing or being clueless and messing up and so on.

It needs to be tried, no doubt. And I hope it is when scheduled. WAtch and see though. My guess at this point is that that won't happen.

Of COURSE with crowd funding, they don't have much excuse any longer although next it will be their expert's schedule or some other bogus claim. I HOPE it goes off when scheduled to end this all. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but I think the prosecution is ready.

I'll also be fair and say I am not 100 percent tickled with either side. More LE failures on the one side than prosecution but I think all know my opinion of the defense.

And I will reiterate there is something RA was really scared of and they are too or more than one thing.

Again, could be wrong.

I CANNOT imagine the heartache and b.s. this creates for either girls' family right now and for some time now.

I don't even wait for the BIG bullet or thing that I think may be there, I want to hear his wife on the stand just for starters.... He won't get up. I'll bet on that right now.

Anyhow....

I could say a hundred other things in different directions as we all could.

But as far as your Wegman's thing, maybe you did do it... And because of reasons other than they simply found a dead body next to your car.

Make up your mind. WAs RA part of it and another was there or not? Or it was someone else all together and he is innocent? You've backed off the RL thing have you let that go? No offense but you don't have one thing you settle on other than when stuck on RL and I am still open to a few things but not all over the spectrum. RA was there. RA did this or was part of this.

When did he recant by the way? WHEN did RA recant his confessions?

I must have missed that.

If you want to see this information for yourself, look it up. I've posted a lot of stuff that later I'm asked for proof. I'm tired of going back to find stuff. I'm assuming a lot of it is in CourtTV videos nobodies bothered to watch. I watched the Nancy Grace video and she wasn't even aware that RLs alibi had been proven to be a lie. Her video was meant to show that RA did it.

Explain the phone hits of RLs phone around where the bodies were found at 10pm the night before. If you want to say they didn't have the technology to accurately prove he was near the bodies, prove it. We'll have to wait til the trial to find out for sure, because none of us can prove anything about that ourselves.

I'm not closed minded. I've said before he may have been involved, but he obviously wasn't the only one.

After listening to his temporary lawyer assert so confidently that he truly believes he wasn't capable of doing this it means a lot. It came across to me that he was telling the truth. It causes me to think he may not have been involved at all. He's not his lawyer, he's not compelled to assert innocence no matter what.

Once again, SOMEONE please tell me who's fingerprints and DNA are at the scene? If you can't, tell me why doesn't it matter to the case.

Also, I can't supply a link because I read, and mostly post things, but I recall that the bullet didn't have fingerprints on it. If there were, they weren't RAs. RAs fingerprints and DNA are nowhere to be found on the crime scene.

The bullet being ejected from his gun isn't as damning as a fired bullet by any stretch of the imagination. It's the same gun that the local PD carry. The defense will put on their own witness.

The prosecution checked with a professor who is an expert on religions like Odinism. The prosecution didn't tell the defense. The defense found out and asked the prosecution for his name. The prosecution "Lost" or "Forgot" his name. The defense found out who it was and interviewed him. He told the defense the exact opposite of what the prosecution claimed he said and why they didn't follow up. That guy is now going to be a defense witness. The prosecution has not denied the defenses claims on that, to my knowledge.

Three different kinds of cars were identified as being there. None were a Ford Focus, or black. He admitted he was there and where he parked. Why would he do that if he killed these kids. Yes, the girls saw him and he admits it. It seems to me that a murderer would deny it was him they saw. The fact that he backed in means little to me. I back into my space a lot. It doesn't matter though. NYS requires plates on the front and back.

Just because he was the only guy there wearing those clothes, doesn't mean that it was him as bridge guy. I read a lot of comments under some of the videos about this case where some locals believe he didn't do it either. (I was surprised at how many believe this.) A couple have said that you probably couldn't find a house without those exact type of clothes in Delphi.

If someone has half a brain and was going to kill someone, they wouldn't walk out in the open. Instead, I believe, they would stay in the shadows. So not seeing anybody else there doesn't mean anything.

A few people who knew RL called the cops and said that it had to be him when the news about where they were found was announced. Two people, very close, to RL identified him as bridge guy. In an interview, RL was asked to repeat "Down the hill." When he did he raised his pitch on the word "hill". Why? That's not how it was said. The video has been posted here.

The judge is obviously trying to sabotage the defenses case. If convicted RA will probably get a retrial and if found not guilty they won't look for the real killers.

It certainly appears that the mystery DNA and fingerprints aren't being investigated by the local police.

This case has stunk from the beginning and it just gets worse all the time. Did he do it alone? I'm POSITIVE he didn't. Was he involved? I need to know more. Finding the owner of the DNA and fingerprints at the scene will tell us a lot more.

As I've said I want THE GUY(s) responsible for this convicted. Not someone based on circumstantial evidence when there's DNA and fingerprints at the scene.

In the video I posted by the FBI agent six months before RA was arrested, he says nobody wet was seen leaving the area after the murders were supposed to have taken place. I believe his point was that RL could simply have walked up the hill to his house. That also call into question the existence of Muddy/Bloody guy.

Also, one of the branches placed on one of the bodies had been freshly cut. I have no idea how thick the branch was, but if it required a saw (which it sounds like it did.) Explain how that was cut at the scene. Did RA have a saw with him?

I find it distressing that so many people are willing to convict him without solid evidence. The gun evidence isn't solid. The bullet wasn't found by the time the crime scene had been cleared. Then two days later they re-secured the crime scene and miraculously found the bullet. (That information is in one of the videos posted here.) I don't know the timing of that. If the crime scene was re-secured after the seizure of RAs gun, that would be REALLY hinky to me.

This is why I doubt he was involved or at the very least acted alone.

He has no past behavior typical of killers. AFAIK, he never killed animals as a kid or had other psychopathic traits. Oh, and there is no proof that the cat hair found matches the cat hair found at the scene. All we know is they collected cat hair because cat hair was found at the scene.

In every other case I've followed the prosecution is forthcoming with information because they have to share all of it with the defense anyway. LISK told us that his wife's DNA and his DNA was found on the bodies. They told us how they tracked him down using cell phone data.

We knew about the coverup in the Ahmaud Arbery case prior to trial. We knew about the video (That had been released by a lawyer's suggestion.) That ended up convicting them.

We knew a lot about Mark Redwine long before his arrest.

We knew a lot about Harmony Montegomery's dad long before the trial.

We know a lot about people who haven't been tried yet, or charges dropped because of evidentiary problems.

We know very little about this case. My belief is that there isn't a lot to report.
 
Make up your mind. WAs RA part of it and another was there or not? Or it was someone else all together and he is innocent? You've backed off the RL thing have you let that go? No offense but you don't have one thing you settle on other than when stuck on RL and I am still open to a few things but not all over the spectrum. RA was there. RA did this or was part of this.

When did he recant by the way? WHEN did RA recant his confessions?

I must have missed that.
Probably he will say "look up thread" for the recantation. That's BS he has recanted. It would be all over the media if so and we would know.

Oh "look it up yourself". Even better.
 
Good point. Let's crowd fund for both sides. In all cases. Maybe they will lower taxes if such is done (yeah right, they will let it be paid and keep taxing) so we don't have to fund the prosecution and courts OR the public defenders. Can some see the issues here? Really?

Not to mention anyone who donates to one side versus another is showing a public bias or belief. To a potential jury pool etc.

I'd be fine though with GFM taking care of all taxes from sales tax to car registration to income tax and you name it from the idiots who contribute to THIS kind of ridiculous sh*t that now includes LAWYERS. Maybe GFM can kick in part of their bucco rakings of cash and lessen all our costs. Like that will happen.

I do think there are SOME legit causes on it on rare occasion but nope, youi know a real person who just really is dealing with something. I've donated EXACTLY ONCE to a family who I knew the one family and what they were dealing with LOCAL. Could I use one in my life or have ever? You bet. Would I do such? NO WAY.

Mr. and Mr. Pro Bono.

But yes, let's fund BOTH SIDES that way. Let's start this!

ANd I've had a long day, been out of town for my mom's 80th and man we had a nice time, all sibs and a BIL but on a trip we met like in the middle and stayed oivernight but if have the gist, in catching up on threads, as always people are missing stuff and being played. They HAD experts paid for and failed to support the need for additional ones or further and that's why it was denied. They need to support requests. I want money for my ice cream because my therapist said I need such to get through this. Come ON! Wy not!!?

I am so tired of people jumping to what is ONE side shown and playing a PR campaing and FALLING for it but oh well.

I had a nice day away and got to see all my remaining sibs, my mom and my BIL. We had an overnight, a trip and packed a lot in. Dinner, breakfast and time together.

You have good points with this GFM. It is a can of worms and new bullsh*t.

On the other hand, let them get their paid whores and maybe to level the playing field, prosecution should be able to do same, share, play to public and crowd source. Sure, let's go there.

Do defendants and defense deserve a fair playing field? Of COURSE. So before anyone would think I meant that, no I did not.

The lack by some to see the sheer games here is beyond comprehension to me. And don't get me wrong I, I think our legal system has a LOT of issues. It sure isn't just one way though. And the ones that are unhappy will tell you on another day it is the best system in the world.

People run the world and the systems. Idiots in many cases. Some play that. And it's gone so far the other way it isn't even funny.

Oh well.

Abby and Libby for the first time in this post I thought of you. And that's a really sick thing about our system and where it has gone.



My mom is 80 and in great health imo and a cancer survivor. Better shape than me I'd dare say. Got to see her and my sisters and even though once in a blue moon I get to (not that often) we did an overnight for fun and not tragedy or other reasons that sometimes do it.

Anyhow, I guess if I have a point it is that I left the laptop home and don't do phone much with online stuff. So just catching up.
Glad you had some time off for family.

This crowd funding is a bit perplexing to me. One of the professors who has been taken on by the defence to help with the contempt charges issues has commented about the crowd funding saying it is a great idea. Yet it doesn't cover his fees does it? It shouldn't do, anyway.
 
I wonder how much an appeal costs? This has got me thinking about overall trial costs here.
Perhaps they would do it Pro Bono? They offered it before. It looks like the allocated time for the trial is only about 2 weeks. Do you think that's long enough?

We know roughly how much a double murder defence will cost by comparing Daybell, I guess. His house went to his lawyer and funds ran out before trial right? He's a public defender now isn't he?
 
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Perhaps they would do it Pro Bono? They offered it before. It looks like the allocated time for the trial is only about 2 weeks. Do you think that's long enough?

We know roughly how much a double murder defence will cost by comparing Daybell, I guess. His house went to his lawyer and funds ran out before trial right? He's a public defender now isn't he?
I believe he is.

I think 2 weeks is long enough. It's just my opinion the evidence is so technical they will lose the jury's interest if they drag it out for ages.
 
Probably he will say "look up thread" for the recantation. That's BS he has recanted. It would be all over the media if so and we would know.

Oh "look it up yourself". Even better.

Yep, I did. Like I said. I'm tired of posting things here and nobody pays attention to them and then asks me to find it. Go back and watch all the videos I've posted and you'll have your answers. I'm done going back over things I've already posted.
 
I believe he is.

I think 2 weeks is long enough. It's just my opinion the evidence is so technical they will lose the jury's interest if they drag it out for ages.
Just found this link about how much the separate double murders trials in Daybell have cost. $3.6 million !!!!!! - and that was as at a year ago. It's probably $6m now.


This came up in my feed too. Perhaps Judge Gull can do similar in this case as these lawyers are all giving out their opinions too freely IMO.

 
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If you want to see this information for yourself, look it up. I've posted a lot of stuff that later I'm asked for proof. I'm tired of going back to find stuff. I'm assuming a lot of it is in CourtTV videos nobodies bothered to watch. I watched the Nancy Grace video and she wasn't even aware that RLs alibi had been proven to be a lie. Her video was meant to show that RA did it.

Explain the phone hits of RLs phone around where the bodies were found at 10pm the night before. If you want to say they didn't have the technology to accurately prove he was near the bodies, prove it. We'll have to wait til the trial to find out for sure, because none of us can prove anything about that ourselves.

I'm not closed minded. I've said before he may have been involved, but he obviously wasn't the only one.

After listening to his temporary lawyer assert so confidently that he truly believes he wasn't capable of doing this it means a lot. It came across to me that he was telling the truth. It causes me to think he may not have been involved at all. He's not his lawyer, he's not compelled to assert innocence no matter what.

Once again, SOMEONE please tell me who's fingerprints and DNA are at the scene? If you can't, tell me why doesn't it matter to the case.

Also, I can't supply a link because I read, and mostly post things, but I recall that the bullet didn't have fingerprints on it. If there were, they weren't RAs. RAs fingerprints and DNA are nowhere to be found on the crime scene.

The bullet being ejected from his gun isn't as damning as a fired bullet by any stretch of the imagination. It's the same gun that the local PD carry. The defense will put on their own witness.

The prosecution checked with a professor who is an expert on religions like Odinism. The prosecution didn't tell the defense. The defense found out and asked the prosecution for his name. The prosecution "Lost" or "Forgot" his name. The defense found out who it was and interviewed him. He told the defense the exact opposite of what the prosecution claimed he said and why they didn't follow up. That guy is now going to be a defense witness. The prosecution has not denied the defenses claims on that, to my knowledge.

Three different kinds of cars were identified as being there. None were a Ford Focus, or black. He admitted he was there and where he parked. Why would he do that if he killed these kids. Yes, the girls saw him and he admits it. It seems to me that a murderer would deny it was him they saw. The fact that he backed in means little to me. I back into my space a lot. It doesn't matter though. NYS requires plates on the front and back.

Just because he was the only guy there wearing those clothes, doesn't mean that it was him as bridge guy. I read a lot of comments under some of the videos about this case where some locals believe he didn't do it either. (I was surprised at how many believe this.) A couple have said that you probably couldn't find a house without those exact type of clothes in Delphi.

If someone has half a brain and was going to kill someone, they wouldn't walk out in the open. Instead, I believe, they would stay in the shadows. So not seeing anybody else there doesn't mean anything.

A few people who knew RL called the cops and said that it had to be him when the news about where they were found was announced. Two people, very close, to RL identified him as bridge guy. In an interview, RL was asked to repeat "Down the hill." When he did he raised his pitch on the word "hill". Why? That's not how it was said. The video has been posted here.

The judge is obviously trying to sabotage the defenses case. If convicted RA will probably get a retrial and if found not guilty they won't look for the real killers.

It certainly appears that the mystery DNA and fingerprints aren't being investigated by the local police.

This case has stunk from the beginning and it just gets worse all the time. Did he do it alone? I'm POSITIVE he didn't. Was he involved? I need to know more. Finding the owner of the DNA and fingerprints at the scene will tell us a lot more.

As I've said I want THE GUY(s) responsible for this convicted. Not someone based on circumstantial evidence when there's DNA and fingerprints at the scene.

In the video I posted by the FBI agent six months before RA was arrested, he says nobody wet was seen leaving the area after the murders were supposed to have taken place. I believe his point was that RL could simply have walked up the hill to his house. That also call into question the existence of Muddy/Bloody guy.

Also, one of the branches placed on one of the bodies had been freshly cut. I have no idea how thick the branch was, but if it required a saw (which it sounds like it did.) Explain how that was cut at the scene. Did RA have a saw with him?

I find it distressing that so many people are willing to convict him without solid evidence. The gun evidence isn't solid. The bullet wasn't found by the time the crime scene had been cleared. Then two days later they re-secured the crime scene and miraculously found the bullet. (That information is in one of the videos posted here.) I don't know the timing of that. If the crime scene was re-secured after the seizure of RAs gun, that would be REALLY hinky to me.

This is why I doubt he was involved or at the very least acted alone.

He has no past behavior typical of killers. AFAIK, he never killed animals as a kid or had other psychopathic traits. Oh, and there is no proof that the cat hair found matches the cat hair found at the scene. All we know is they collected cat hair because cat hair was found at the scene.

In every other case I've followed the prosecution is forthcoming with information because they have to share all of it with the defense anyway. LISK told us that his wife's DNA and his DNA was found on the bodies. They told us how they tracked him down using cell phone data.

We knew about the coverup in the Ahmaud Arbery case prior to trial. We knew about the video (That had been released by a lawyer's suggestion.) That ended up convicting them.

We knew a lot about Mark Redwine long before his arrest.

We knew a lot about Harmony Montegomery's dad long before the trial.

We know a lot about people who haven't been tried yet, or charges dropped because of evidentiary problems.

We know very little about this case. My belief is that there isn't a lot to report.
You have a long one here very much like some of mine. Can't take it in all at once and see it to respond so I'll start with the first part. It's all BEEN discussed to no end and what you have linked and posted I've watched plenty of usually to only go in and realize I'd seen it back when it came out and it isn't new. I'm not necessarily a Court TV fan but I do watch most things that come out when they do on cases I follow and have generally seen most.

I don't expect you to go back and find anything because the fingerprints and DNA have been more than discussed here as have RL's phone pinging and apparently you ignore that all have been responded to several times along with reasons or possible reasons for such as has it been over and over said that we don't have all the info on anything.

We all have our own take and opinion on things but it doesn't mean you are right or that any of us are and just because you look for only things that support yours and ignore others doesn't make it so either. You come back then and repeat your same things but never listen or take in the responses and other likely reasons such could be the case imo. It's the same stuff being gone around on, always and that's likely because there IS NOT anything new and we don't know ALL and won't most likely until this is tried.

To support your opinion you bring in videos long known about and yes, watched, you can find in here where I said I did, which is fine but it isn't new or proof of anything. RL was dropped as a suspect at a point and that's also ignored by you. RL's pings have been explained many a time or the likelihoods. Fingerprints and DNA we don't even know where or on what they are talking of or what type of DNA. And for instance, I personally have NEVER said there couldn't have been an accomplice although I lean toward RA alone and so yeah there'd be other DNA or fingerprints possibly ,just one example. Would that stop me as LE from arresting RA and the one you know was part of it? Of course not.

You want ALL responsible as you often say well no sh*t IF anyone else was involved, I do too but that sure doesn't mean they shouldn't have the one they do have a case on arrested and charged.

You can't remove RA and you can't remove his bullet/casing.

I've only just begun your post and read a paragraph or two maybe so haven't responded to all here.

Our opinions CAN differ and it sure doesn't mean yours is right or people should have to accept yours when I believe there's as lot you don't see any you feel we don't. I'm not pushing anyone to accept mine. I have mine and so what. And I don't agree with yours and so what. And I'm open to anything or changing mine IF a worthy reason but not with what you have which we've heard.

All you talk of I saw the things over time when they came out and I shifted and listened and listened others and made my own decisions on. You choose to think only certain things are of import and others aren't to fit what you believe. We probably all do. I didn't come to the same opinion as you have.

All it is rehashing what all have seen and know over and over and no one is going to change anyone else's opinion with what is not new stuff. We've already come to our own based on watching and reading the same things you have and most of us have on this case.

And that's fine but nothing is going to change without new info and prosecution doesn't give that out and until trial. And believe me I don't take defense filings as all the info about qa case as if both sides just tried it either. It's selective, it is intentional and it is one sided.

I don't even entirely disagree here that there could have been another person, I never have have I?

Also surely you can see how the information for the RL warrant was also crafted to sound the best for reasons for a judge to grant the warrant? You put so much store in the pings of RL. He LIVED there. If someone was murdered in the apartment next to you and you were home yes you'd ping too. Or if you were at Wegman's and a body next to your car as you say. Yes you'd ping and it would be your car.... But WAS that enough to charge Logan? NO. That he lived there so was there and pinged. And he was cleared I am sure for good reasons.

As for RA as we all have said numerous times he puts himself there, his car was seen, his bullet was there and a lot more. There's nothing to clear him as there was with RL, there's ample to charge him and as has also been said we don't even know he half of it yet.

Agree or not on this. And I haven't even read all yet but am going to probably take a break from it as I'm not going to lose a day to such. But agree on this? I am not the only one that feels as I do or shares most of the opinions. There's another side the same can be said of which I'd put you on for the most part but then you're kind of on your own island too when it came to like the RL stuff. Even though I left it open I never one thought he was BG which you were adamant about. None of us are going to agree or all of a sudden come over to the other's opinions. Just the way it is no? I feel there are things so obvious some can't see that it frustrates but I just leave it most often.

I truly hope they try this in May. I'm more than ready to hear the prosecution instead of all the defense b.s.

There will be a jury and if they are as divided as it is here, it will be a hung one. However if they listen to the evidence and are as most juries are, RA will be convicted imo.

Have a good one. Maybe i'll be back later if in the mood for it. I'm tired. Had a 24 hour trip traveled two hours both ways, we dinnered, we breakfasted, we visited we checked into a nice hotel and so on but I went straight from a work day the night before to leaving in the morning to do such with no time in between. I do have today off but have al the things to do before another week I coudln't do yesterday and my days off aren't normal this week so no usual two in a row. They gave me EAster off which I didn't ask for and don't need and then took away because of that my other normal day off later in the week. Sigh. Not ideal.
 
If you want to see this information for yourself, look it up. I've posted a lot of stuff that later I'm asked for proof. I'm tired of going back to find stuff. I'm assuming a lot of it is in CourtTV videos nobodies bothered to watch. I watched the Nancy Grace video and she wasn't even aware that RLs alibi had been proven to be a lie. Her video was meant to show that RA did it.

Explain the phone hits of RLs phone around where the bodies were found at 10pm the night before. If you want to say they didn't have the technology to accurately prove he was near the bodies, prove it. We'll have to wait til the trial to find out for sure, because none of us can prove anything about that ourselves.

I'm not closed minded. I've said before he may have been involved, but he obviously wasn't the only one.

After listening to his temporary lawyer assert so confidently that he truly believes he wasn't capable of doing this it means a lot. It came across to me that he was telling the truth. It causes me to think he may not have been involved at all. He's not his lawyer, he's not compelled to assert innocence no matter what.

Once again, SOMEONE please tell me who's fingerprints and DNA are at the scene? If you can't, tell me why doesn't it matter to the case.

Also, I can't supply a link because I read, and mostly post things, but I recall that the bullet didn't have fingerprints on it. If there were, they weren't RAs. RAs fingerprints and DNA are nowhere to be found on the crime scene.

The bullet being ejected from his gun isn't as damning as a fired bullet by any stretch of the imagination. It's the same gun that the local PD carry. The defense will put on their own witness.

The prosecution checked with a professor who is an expert on religions like Odinism. The prosecution didn't tell the defense. The defense found out and asked the prosecution for his name. The prosecution "Lost" or "Forgot" his name. The defense found out who it was and interviewed him. He told the defense the exact opposite of what the prosecution claimed he said and why they didn't follow up. That guy is now going to be a defense witness. The prosecution has not denied the defenses claims on that, to my knowledge.

Three different kinds of cars were identified as being there. None were a Ford Focus, or black. He admitted he was there and where he parked. Why would he do that if he killed these kids. Yes, the girls saw him and he admits it. It seems to me that a murderer would deny it was him they saw. The fact that he backed in means little to me. I back into my space a lot. It doesn't matter though. NYS requires plates on the front and back.

Just because he was the only guy there wearing those clothes, doesn't mean that it was him as bridge guy. I read a lot of comments under some of the videos about this case where some locals believe he didn't do it either. (I was surprised at how many believe this.) A couple have said that you probably couldn't find a house without those exact type of clothes in Delphi.

If someone has half a brain and was going to kill someone, they wouldn't walk out in the open. Instead, I believe, they would stay in the shadows. So not seeing anybody else there doesn't mean anything.

A few people who knew RL called the cops and said that it had to be him when the news about where they were found was announced. Two people, very close, to RL identified him as bridge guy. In an interview, RL was asked to repeat "Down the hill." When he did he raised his pitch on the word "hill". Why? That's not how it was said. The video has been posted here.

The judge is obviously trying to sabotage the defenses case. If convicted RA will probably get a retrial and if found not guilty they won't look for the real killers.

It certainly appears that the mystery DNA and fingerprints aren't being investigated by the local police.

This case has stunk from the beginning and it just gets worse all the time. Did he do it alone? I'm POSITIVE he didn't. Was he involved? I need to know more. Finding the owner of the DNA and fingerprints at the scene will tell us a lot more.

As I've said I want THE GUY(s) responsible for this convicted. Not someone based on circumstantial evidence when there's DNA and fingerprints at the scene.

In the video I posted by the FBI agent six months before RA was arrested, he says nobody wet was seen leaving the area after the murders were supposed to have taken place. I believe his point was that RL could simply have walked up the hill to his house. That also call into question the existence of Muddy/Bloody guy.

Also, one of the branches placed on one of the bodies had been freshly cut. I have no idea how thick the branch was, but if it required a saw (which it sounds like it did.) Explain how that was cut at the scene. Did RA have a saw with him?

I find it distressing that so many people are willing to convict him without solid evidence. The gun evidence isn't solid. The bullet wasn't found by the time the crime scene had been cleared. Then two days later they re-secured the crime scene and miraculously found the bullet. (That information is in one of the videos posted here.) I don't know the timing of that. If the crime scene was re-secured after the seizure of RAs gun, that would be REALLY hinky to me.

This is why I doubt he was involved or at the very least acted alone.

He has no past behavior typical of killers. AFAIK, he never killed animals as a kid or had other psychopathic traits. Oh, and there is no proof that the cat hair found matches the cat hair found at the scene. All we know is they collected cat hair because cat hair was found at the scene.

In every other case I've followed the prosecution is forthcoming with information because they have to share all of it with the defense anyway. LISK told us that his wife's DNA and his DNA was found on the bodies. They told us how they tracked him down using cell phone data.

We knew about the coverup in the Ahmaud Arbery case prior to trial. We knew about the video (That had been released by a lawyer's suggestion.) That ended up convicting them.

We knew a lot about Mark Redwine long before his arrest.

We knew a lot about Harmony Montegomery's dad long before the trial.

We know a lot about people who haven't been tried yet, or charges dropped because of evidentiary problems.

We know very little about this case. My belief is that there isn't a lot to report.
His temporary lawyer could have met Bundy as many did and not hit his radar. Means nothing to me. We are talking of a killer here who boldly took two girls and slaughtered them. How many are meek and mild acting when talking to this person or charismatic, etc. I don't know how a temporary lawyer could have an opinion based on any real knowledge of the man and if convinced so fast based on what, I give that no credence.

The fingerprints and DNA are NOT known as to where, what type and so much more. And YES they could be someone else's or relevant and there could be another person. And they may be nothing and explainable and likely not relevant. On Kelsey's sweatshirt for instance. We have someone who said there was such and that's it, we do not have the rest of the info on it.

I don't see you as open minded on this at all BUT you have allowed RA might be involved but you haven't said that in a long time and you only seemed to ever say it as you coudln't remove him just as defense can't. None of us are truly open minded in my opinion, I am and you say you are, but it would take more than some bit of fluff or not full info to change my opinion. I'm not set on RA alone or RA and someone else. I am set on RA. Pretty firmly. I've entertained Logan. I've entertained many a thing over the years and even in recent times. I've come to and it took me some time to for the most part exclude him although I was at a fairly high percentage on that and for several reasons. I NEVER go 100 percent on anything. Well I am probably close on the O thing lol. Nope.

This isn't going to get any better. And filings and b.s. will keep coming. And some of us aren't going to agree. It needs to be tried. I hope it is. Soon.
 
This has probably been posted before but posting as a recap. 14 phones. (12 cell phones and 2 Motorola flip phones. )



  • A black Sig Sauer P226 .40 caliber handgun
  • A .40 caliber S&W cartridge found in a wooden keepsake box
  • A .40 caliber S&W cartridge found in the Sig Sauer
  • A magazine filled with nine .40 caliber cartridges
  • A magazine filled with eight .40 caliber cartridges
  • A paper-wrapped wooden weave box containing:
    • 2 “Audiovox” devices,
    • 2 silver Motorola flip phones,
    • 4 car chargers, and
    • 3 wall outlet chargers
A property receipt filed by police indicated that both the Sig Sauer pistol and the cartridge found in the wooden box were sent to a lab for examination.

Later into the night of Oct. 13, around 9:45 p.m., police returned to the 1900 block of Whiteman Drive for a second search. This time, they seized:

  • 7 various sheathed knives
  • 8 various folding knives
  • 4 various multi-tools
  • A miniature katana with a red tassel
  • 3 pairs of boots
  • 12 various quarter-zip or full-zip sweatshirts
  • 3 coats
  • 4 various stocking caps and hats
  • 10 pairs of gloves
  • Various fabric straps
  • 2 HP Laptops
  • Multiple headbands
  • Cardboard phone box
  • Empty ammo box
  • 3 flash drives, 1 labeled “Rick”
  • 2 hard drives
  • An iPod
  • 12 cell phones
  • 2 pagers
  • Several miscellaneous chargers and phone accessories
  • A GPS system
  • A motorcycle cover
  • An Aquafina water bottle
The search warrants continued the following day on Oct. 14, 2022, when ISP troopers searched a Ford Focus at ISP District 14’s post in West Lafayette. The search, which docs show occurred around 2 p.m., yielded three items:

  • A cutting of carpeted area under a spare tire in the Ford Focus
  • Swabbing from the driver’s lap belt and the driver’s shoulder belt in the Ford Focus
  • Swabbing from the passenger side carpeted floorboards
 
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If you want to see this information for yourself, look it up. I've posted a lot of stuff that later I'm asked for proof. I'm tired of going back to find stuff. I'm assuming a lot of it is in CourtTV videos nobodies bothered to watch. I watched the Nancy Grace video and she wasn't even aware that RLs alibi had been proven to be a lie. Her video was meant to show that RA did it.

Explain the phone hits of RLs phone around where the bodies were found at 10pm the night before. If you want to say they didn't have the technology to accurately prove he was near the bodies, prove it. We'll have to wait til the trial to find out for sure, because none of us can prove anything about that ourselves.

I'm not closed minded. I've said before he may have been involved, but he obviously wasn't the only one.

After listening to his temporary lawyer assert so confidently that he truly believes he wasn't capable of doing this it means a lot. It came across to me that he was telling the truth. It causes me to think he may not have been involved at all. He's not his lawyer, he's not compelled to assert innocence no matter what.

Once again, SOMEONE please tell me who's fingerprints and DNA are at the scene? If you can't, tell me why doesn't it matter to the case.

Also, I can't supply a link because I read, and mostly post things, but I recall that the bullet didn't have fingerprints on it. If there were, they weren't RAs. RAs fingerprints and DNA are nowhere to be found on the crime scene.

The bullet being ejected from his gun isn't as damning as a fired bullet by any stretch of the imagination. It's the same gun that the local PD carry. The defense will put on their own witness.

The prosecution checked with a professor who is an expert on religions like Odinism. The prosecution didn't tell the defense. The defense found out and asked the prosecution for his name. The prosecution "Lost" or "Forgot" his name. The defense found out who it was and interviewed him. He told the defense the exact opposite of what the prosecution claimed he said and why they didn't follow up. That guy is now going to be a defense witness. The prosecution has not denied the defenses claims on that, to my knowledge.

Three different kinds of cars were identified as being there. None were a Ford Focus, or black. He admitted he was there and where he parked. Why would he do that if he killed these kids. Yes, the girls saw him and he admits it. It seems to me that a murderer would deny it was him they saw. The fact that he backed in means little to me. I back into my space a lot. It doesn't matter though. NYS requires plates on the front and back.

Just because he was the only guy there wearing those clothes, doesn't mean that it was him as bridge guy. I read a lot of comments under some of the videos about this case where some locals believe he didn't do it either. (I was surprised at how many believe this.) A couple have said that you probably couldn't find a house without those exact type of clothes in Delphi.

If someone has half a brain and was going to kill someone, they wouldn't walk out in the open. Instead, I believe, they would stay in the shadows. So not seeing anybody else there doesn't mean anything.

A few people who knew RL called the cops and said that it had to be him when the news about where they were found was announced. Two people, very close, to RL identified him as bridge guy. In an interview, RL was asked to repeat "Down the hill." When he did he raised his pitch on the word "hill". Why? That's not how it was said. The video has been posted here.

The judge is obviously trying to sabotage the defenses case. If convicted RA will probably get a retrial and if found not guilty they won't look for the real killers.

It certainly appears that the mystery DNA and fingerprints aren't being investigated by the local police.

This case has stunk from the beginning and it just gets worse all the time. Did he do it alone? I'm POSITIVE he didn't. Was he involved? I need to know more. Finding the owner of the DNA and fingerprints at the scene will tell us a lot more.

As I've said I want THE GUY(s) responsible for this convicted. Not someone based on circumstantial evidence when there's DNA and fingerprints at the scene.

In the video I posted by the FBI agent six months before RA was arrested, he says nobody wet was seen leaving the area after the murders were supposed to have taken place. I believe his point was that RL could simply have walked up the hill to his house. That also call into question the existence of Muddy/Bloody guy.

Also, one of the branches placed on one of the bodies had been freshly cut. I have no idea how thick the branch was, but if it required a saw (which it sounds like it did.) Explain how that was cut at the scene. Did RA have a saw with him?

I find it distressing that so many people are willing to convict him without solid evidence. The gun evidence isn't solid. The bullet wasn't found by the time the crime scene had been cleared. Then two days later they re-secured the crime scene and miraculously found the bullet. (That information is in one of the videos posted here.) I don't know the timing of that. If the crime scene was re-secured after the seizure of RAs gun, that would be REALLY hinky to me.

This is why I doubt he was involved or at the very least acted alone.

He has no past behavior typical of killers. AFAIK, he never killed animals as a kid or had other psychopathic traits. Oh, and there is no proof that the cat hair found matches the cat hair found at the scene. All we know is they collected cat hair because cat hair was found at the scene.

In every other case I've followed the prosecution is forthcoming with information because they have to share all of it with the defense anyway. LISK told us that his wife's DNA and his DNA was found on the bodies. They told us how they tracked him down using cell phone data.

We knew about the coverup in the Ahmaud Arbery case prior to trial. We knew about the video (That had been released by a lawyer's suggestion.) That ended up convicting them.

We knew a lot about Mark Redwine long before his arrest.

We knew a lot about Harmony Montegomery's dad long before the trial.

We know a lot about people who haven't been tried yet, or charges dropped because of evidentiary problems.

We know very little about this case. My belief is that there isn't a lot to report.
I still have not read all of this but you are taking defense info as fact. Like the branch. And where you say you are positive in bold letters of some things, I'm not 100 percent on anything and imo that's dangerous. I AM high percentage and solid on a lot though.

No one has convicted RA. These are crime blogs, sites, etc. and you are doing no different than any of us basing opinion on very partial information, not full info which none of us have. And as far as convicted without solid evidence (which he has not been), there IS solid evidence and we don't even have all yet. You had not problem convicting RL without any so just saying it seems like it depends on who and what you choose to believe.

Casey Anthony as far as I know never killed another child, person, killed animals and so on so again, it seems to depend on the case with you and who you decide is guilty or not. And that's fine. Opinion and speculation and it doesn't have to I guess make sense.

I'm not going to go down the road of all your every case almost is a wrongful conviction or railroading (except the ones you dislike the defendant maybe and decide aren't). Especially in these times. I followed Arbery as you know. Yep, DIRTY. Dirty DA--speaking of which what repercussions did she ever get? Who is keeping up with or yelling about that as it gets forgotten or shoved under he rug?

I don't disagree such goes or has went on but it sure the heck doesn't in every case in every state in every county and you name it. I don't watch hours of wrongful conviction shows and get convinced everyone is railroaded and your own Vinnie called them something I meant to remember.

This case has not been tried and no one has convicted anyone. Of course there's public opinion and speculation just as you have in this and other cases. Imo more have fallen for the defense BS than have convicted RA. Of course that's all for agendas and views in many cases.

And I'm sorry but you pretty much convicted RL and were CONVINCED and stated he is BG and so you do the very same thing. There certainly was no bullet or evidence nagainst RL like there is against RA. So I'm just asking why that is different? You say I guess we or others convict RA without evidence and that's not true there's plenty of evidence. There's none that would have been charged or held RL. Defense can STATE outright that these certain Os KILLED the GIRLS when they have absolutely nothing to show that and that's okay?

I am talking of a man charged with enough evidence to charge who will be tried. I haven't convicted him, I don't have that power but I do believe him guilty but even then my opinion with REAL reason can be changed but I have no reason to do so. Where you state things with 100 percent certainty. And that's something I feel none of us can have or know to that point.

I've put enough time into this that I don't have and we aren't going to get anywhere with it anyhow.

I'm done with wrongful convictions in every single case and with RL in this one and so on. Until new info comes if ever.

You keep going on about DNA and fingerprints.

You tell me how they put that bullet there over five years ago and planned to frame RA way back then but then never did until all these years later when they found the gun match in his home. That is beyond far fetched if that's what anyone thinks. And if one then reverts to the science yeah give me another paid defense type talking head expert. The odds are nearly impossible. It could have far more easily NOT BEEN A MATCH. Plus the guy was there. I mean come on.

His voice also did it for me. Many things have. I've listened to many over the years and felt many MAY BE, unsure but possible. NEVER EVER have I heard the dead ringer for it. Until RA.

Count on they have more of his voice by far than we do. And a ton more info than we do. His claimed whereabouts that day what he told his wife, what she knew if he liked to her and sooooo much more. TONS more. Surely you know this?

Defense comes out with purposeful tons of sh*t and everyone thinks they know the entire case because the defense told them. Sorry, but really?? Think of ALL we DO NOT KNOW that both parties do and again I've said it many times defense isn't going to share things to the public that are fact but detrimental to their client. You do see this right?

I'm not the one acting or believing the case has been tried or we know all to be sure of anything. We don't. There's a ton we don't know.
 
Glad you had some time off for family.

This crowd funding is a bit perplexing to me. One of the professors who has been taken on by the defence to help with the contempt charges issues has commented about the crowd funding saying it is a great idea. Yet it doesn't cover his fees does it? It shouldn't do, anyway.
Thank you. It was nice for us all and much needed. It was a work til leave kind of rush for me to do it and a 24 hour turnaround and pack a lot in but I am very glad we did it and we really enjoyed it.
All I can say is I don't think there's ever been such a thing or precedent set. Lawyers definitely have rules and ethics they are to follow and this is likely not something they should be doing but could be a gray area. I have seen GFMs where people try to raise money to pay for their own lawyer but the lawyer doing it? It's a bunch of b.s and I guess they are or thinking they are doing something not before done where no rules exist BUT there sure are rules for lawyers so I guess we will see.

GFM is hardly something that has a lot of law about it or been written for it to this day I'm pretty sure. I see the big problem is it is not RA looking for help for bond or a lawyer, it is the lawyers and as you say some aren't even his lawyers so to speak.

What is obvious is it is yet another game and attempt to blow things up and see what happens or is ruled or what is done about it. I'm actually kind of impressed that there weren't enough idiots to fund it within hours. I was beginning to think most out there were as to buying defense stuff. But when it comes to being seen doing that maybe not so willing....

You know if B & R want their attention and their big case and to go bonkers and the now probably defense types helping them, with more stunts, well they'e got it I guess. And in some ways let them get their experts and pay for them this way BUT they ARE PUBLIC DEFENDERS, NOT private attorneys. They are STATE employees here. Can state workers solicit funds from the public?/ There are so many things here that are questionable it isn't even funny. You know I'd be fine with them dropping all experts. Take the ambulance driver who responded and saw the wounds and treated the patient on way to hospital (not employed by either side). Take the doctors and nurses that cared for the patient/victim if they survived for a bit to attest to the injury and what likely caused it. Also not employed by the prosecution or State or either side. Etc. Detectives and LE who ARE employed by state here same as both sides in this case are, get up and share their knowledge and testify. Defense witnesses IF ANY do same AND defendant who almost never does of course and generally chooses not to for OBVIOUS reasons (guilt).

Paid experts to begin with are a problem just with the concept and all defense experts are paid. Why aren't they okay with say a doctor who has no agenda at all? Because it goes against their client, yes this person was beaten, yes this person was abused or whatever. OR they say NO, there's no evidence of that and no certainty at all. No agenda.

There's much that could change about our system no doubt. And it doesn't need to get even worse or more out there as is being tried here. I could simplify it to fair for both sides very easily. But since when does any govt system just work logically, simply, fairly and without ten ton of b.s. that only keeps getting worse.

I'm fairly passionate about this case and it certainly can get under one's skin with all at loggerheads BUT I don't get the almost taking it personally. Care about a defendant you think wrongfullky accused or some such, sure. Care about two little girls that lost their lives and care beyond the norm? Most definitely. But this is different than that. It's like there's something beyond it with some. It is isn't about those things and it's more than that. It's either personal for some reason (knowing player/s) or agenda. Never seen anything quite like it.

I don't know. New territory I guess. They could try to do something about it and there may well be rules with attorneys trying to finance personally themselves and maybe there's a reason other attys are doing it because of rules, I sure don't know. But part of me says let them and let them account for it and bring their paid expert whores. And that's not me, that's what defense experts are generally called for good reason. Some here who would go on way in this case would go another way with a defense expert or two in the Arias case...

And again the story of the defense experts in ours is by itself a story beyond. And it wasn't know like this one.

There shouldn't be any blank check without support for it. For all we know they want to bring some expert in from Africa with fully paid travel and stay expenses. And YES they need to support the request. That much I know.
\
Of course, I'm not happy about any of it but it doesn't devastate me as it is so defense typical. Trying to lay appeal bases if nothing else. We didn't have the same resources, wasn't fair, we had a to crowdfund for experts.

I agree entirely all should be fair. However again many cases the prosecution doesn't even have paid experts or few. They do have coroners, detectives and so on but they are public employee just AS public defenders are. I don't think it can be pointed out hard enough that B & R ARE state employees in this case basically.

Here's another one, I guess if it is okay for them to crowd fund then so can prosecution, and all others and you name it. Then you know what we would hear from defense? Waah, waah, sob, they got more donations than us and a TON more money and so this is not fair. Stomp feet. Hey you started it. BOYS.

Anywhoooo lol but not but lol.

it isn't funny, it ALL is sad as HE77 for the girls and their families and our system. But since many give a shi*t about any of that and it never is about the victims EVER or fairness, well watching the clowns is if disgusting, sort of humorous as well. HOWEVER, I am very happy I do not personally know or know of a single person in this case or the parties or attorneys before this case and that I am not the victim's families here. Many don't even stop and think how devastating and awful this is for them nor seem to care. Can't even give a MENTION.

ALL that said, to be fair, there were screwups here. Dufus Doolin (or intentional Doolin?) is a big one. Not recording or having such is another. I'm not going to saying otherwise. I AM FAIR believe it or not. Even then though it does not take away from facts. And I'm going to trust a jury as 99 percent of the time they get it right. They will hear all that but will hear the rest as well. And maybe I'll end up wrong but I can't wait for the smoking gun/s and I don't mean a gun. I mean some evidence RA and the defense is sooooo concerned about RA felt he was doomed.
 
Yep, I did. Like I said. I'm tired of posting things here and nobody pays attention to them and then asks me to find it. Go back and watch all the videos I've posted and you'll have your answers. I'm done going back over things I've already posted.
And that most already watched. Back when. No offense. It is your take on what most have already seen and not new.

I don't expect nor want you to go back and link as I know where almost all your opinion comes from/stems from because you've said and shared such and I'd seen before.

HOWEVER, I won't ask you to link or prove with that kind of thing but I am pretty darned certain RA never recanted his confessions. There is some dumb like "what if" stuff in the FM from the defense where attys are to cite fact and none of it was a quote from their client and none was anything but a false attempt to make some buy it as fact where they said in a footnote it wasn't.

So I will call you on that one. and it is a recent and new one you threw in here as fact. WHEN did RA recant? I won't ask for links for all the old stuff, know it, seen it. That one though, yes I will. Pretty sure it is not fact.
 
Just found this link about how much the separate double murders trials in Daybell have cost. $3.6 million !!!!!! - and that was as at a year ago. It's probably $6m now.


This came up in my feed too. Perhaps Judge Gull can do similar in this case as these lawyers are all giving out their opinions too freely IMO.

Haven't they been in all along in the fake guise? Defense doesn't want pretrial publicity. Give me a break.

Yes she probably can. Trial is in May. Of course many will think it unfair of course.

Actually I think if State employed public defenders can crowd fund then so can the other county/state employees to cut those costs to the public. No? I don't see a difference. Nothing wrong with it right? I have a feeling who would get more donations EVEN though the perception out there and put out there is defense would and that most are on that side. Lol. Not too many seemed to donate too fast...The perception and hype is wrong. I think MOST people who aren't creating and buying smoke know what is likely here... And the ones who are aren't going to put their money earned on views to this GFM...
 

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