LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I read ages ago it was an employee of the law firm. Whether MW worked for them at the time, I'm not sure.

original theft of CS photos: former employee MW. Took PHOTOS of a Screen. Used his phone to push those photos out.
Sent to a Leaker R (also air force) who ... not long after .., committed suicide.


MW = former Baldwin office employee and also air force
R = got photos from MW and Leaked them - also air force (suicide)
Mark = source for MS (don't know if air force?)
MS = reported to ISP
MS = reported to the D
ISP = reported to the P

Note: P didn't tell D, nor did P tell Judge.
They just kept it as their little secret. Probably due to investigation.

30 hours after P learned of leak from ISP, D told P of leak - which (apparently) D learned from MS.

********************
R was visited by ISP with regard to the LEAK and R told investigators he wanted a lawyer. ISP left.
Wife said R was far beyond upset. The last thing R said to his wife was "If I tell them the truth, I will be okay." (This quote is in the email chain about the Leak between Judge. P, and D.)

OKAY so .. Here's a few burning Q's:
WHY DO A BUNCH OF AIR FORCE GUYS want to LEAK crime scene photos?
What is the "TRUTH" that R thinks he can tell the ISP so that he will be okay?

*******************

I mean, these are air force dudes with jobs and lives and families. Why do they feel so invested that they need to leak crime scene photos? Why are they on FB talking about their crime scene plots?
 
original theft of CS photos: former employee MW. Took PHOTOS of a Screen. Used his phone to push those photos out.
Sent to a Leaker R (also air force) who ... not long after .., committed suicide.


MW = former Baldwin office employee and also air force
R = got photos from MW and Leaked them - also air force (suicide)
Mark = source for MS (don't know if air force?)
MS = reported to ISP
MS = reported to the D
ISP = reported to the P

Note: P didn't tell D, nor did P tell Judge.
They just kept it as their little secret. Probably due to investigation.

30 hours after P learned of leak from ISP, D told P of leak - which (apparently) D learned from MS.

********************
R was visited by ISP with regard to the LEAK and R told investigators he wanted a lawyer. ISP left.
Wife said R was far beyond upset. The last thing R said to his wife was "If I tell them the truth, I will be okay." (This quote is in the email chain about the Leak between Judge. P, and D.)

OKAY so .. Here's a few burning Q's:
WHY DO A BUNCH OF AIR FORCE GUYS want to LEAK crime scene photos?
What is the "TRUTH" that R thinks he can tell the ISP so that he will be okay?

*******************

I mean, these are air force dudes with jobs and lives and families. Why do they feel so invested that they need to leak crime scene photos? Why are they on FB talking about their crime scene plots?
I am seeing only two AF guys and it is likely or possible that is how they know each other. I don't see a reason to feel people in the AF want to get involved and leak? It is as if you and I met at a breakfast club, and we became friends and leaked something, it doesn't mean the breakfast club had a thing to do with it or related at all so I am sure not following that one.

My biggest wonder here is that MS never called local LE or the prosecutor but did the defense (albeit alegedly and later). It makes sense they would contact ISP but and ONLY ISP but not then later the defense but never local LE or the prosecutor. Who knows, all of it could make sense EXCEPT for the defense unless hoping for some info or a sound byte...

The truth R guy could tell? Likely that someone else is behind it all and namely the defense and also can tell them the why and the who. The thing is there isn't much he could have gotten in trouble for imo but for Baldwin, there were big stakes. That is why MW took it all on as well. I see no reason to commit suicide IF it was suicide except 1) he may have felt like he would be a pariah for helping to ruin an important nationally known case; 2) he knew he was a dead man if he outed the real perps and reasons; and I have more but no time and that is IF this was a suicide. Another by the way is that he likely knew they would point to him and their word against his he felt wouldn't fly but more likely he was a dead man if he did come clean and he knew it. Baldwin however knew all about it and was the top guy. In my most determined opinion. Or MW was and Baldwin was more than happy to "employ" his services. Former employee my arse. Current off the books employee more like it. Contract for hire perhaps. Cash. Half kidding. No, not really kidding at all. Even though they keep all from us this is all soooo obvious with what we do have.

I don't believe for a minute anyone but the defense was behind this unless someone else was paying them or making it worth their while to do these things. Baldwin has admitted to MW doing this as has MW. Baldwin is corrupt as all get out and I'm sorry for anyone thinking otherwise but I think Rozzi is too or at least need to go. He fails to disconnect from the others and joins in to this day.
 
I am seeing only two AF guys and it is likely or possible that is how they know each other. I don't see a reason to feel people in the AF want to get involved and leak? It is as if you and I met at a breakfast club, and we became friends and leaked something, it doesn't mean the breakfast club had a thing to do with it or related at all so I am sure not following that one.

My biggest wonder here is that MS never called local LE or the prosecutor but did the defense (albeit alegedly and later). It makes sense they would contact ISP but and ONLY ISP but not then later the defense but never local LE or the prosecutor. Who knows, all of it could make sense EXCEPT for the defense unless hoping for some info or a sound byte...

The truth R guy could tell? Likely that someone else is behind it all and namely the defense and also can tell them the why and the who. The thing is there isn't much he could have gotten in trouble for imo but for Baldwin, there were big stakes. That is why MW took it all on as well. I see no reason to commit suicide IF it was suicide except 1) he may have felt like he would be a pariah for helping to ruin an important nationally known case; 2) he knew he was a dead man if he outed the real perps and reasons; and I have more but no time and that is IF this was a suicide. Another by the way is that he likely knew they would point to him and their word against his he felt wouldn't fly but more likely he was a dead man if he did come clean and he knew it. Baldwin however knew all about it and was the top guy. In my most determined opinion. Or MW was and Baldwin was more than happy to "employ" his services. Former employee my arse. Current off the books employee more like it. Contract for hire perhaps. Cash. Half kidding. No, not really kidding at all. Even though they keep all from us this is all soooo obvious with what we do have.

I don't believe for a minute anyone but the defense was behind this unless someone else was paying them or making it worth their while to do these things. Baldwin has admitted to MW doing this as has MW. Baldwin is corrupt as all get out and I'm sorry for anyone thinking otherwise but I think Rozzi is too or at least need to go. He fails to disconnect from the others and joins in to this day.
Sorry I asked. :dizzy:

JMHO.
 
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Old D wants to pull in the RUNEs theory to the case. Was the CS staged to "look as if" it was ritualistic in order to throw off investigators and if so, who woul do such a thing (and RA would not).

To do that - they're gonna need to pull in the testimony from that line of the investigation.
These pre-hearings are to establish the parameters of testimony, evidence, and experts that will be allowed at trial. And when they have that figured out, all these witnesses - expert and otherwise - need to be deposed (by both D and P) prior to trial.

(Phew, there is so much work to do.)

Anyway, pulling in the Runes angle of testimony and theory ... that was the whole reason for the memo.

The D's reason for the memo was not to "FREE THE CS PICTURES" !!! It was to bring forth the Runes (messaging sticks) theory into the case.

Also, I agree with all who objects to the D's release of other POI's names. REDACT REDACT REDACT. I'd like to see Defense defend that unnecessary doxing.
Gull didn't place redaction rules/limits on the record after that memo; I'd like to know why not.
 

The Indiana Attorney General's office declined to represent Gull or the Carroll Circuit Court in the filing, so Gull has Indianapolis attorney Matthew Gutwein representing her, according to the filing.
Just what we need on this case - another lawyer. How many now 6 ?
 
Just what we need on this case - another lawyer. How many now 6 ?
There's a dozen lawyers across the 2 venues; Gull's Court and the SCOIN.

The headline in this article is that the AG opted out of supporting Gull at the SCOIN, which is a very rare thing.
(That's the AG's job, to provide counsel for their judges. They opt not to if they think for some reason that repping Gull would NOT be in the state's best interest.)
 
Old D wants to pull in the RUNEs theory to the case. Was the CS staged to "look as if" it was ritualistic in order to throw off investigators and if so, who woul do such a thing (and RA would not).

To do that - they're gonna need to pull in the testimony from that line of the investigation.
These pre-hearings are to establish the parameters of testimony, evidence, and experts that will be allowed at trial. And when they have that figured out, all these witnesses - expert and otherwise - need to be deposed (by both D and P) prior to trial.

(Phew, there is so much work to do.)

Anyway, pulling in the Runes angle of testimony and theory ... that was the whole reason for the memo.

The D's reason for the memo was not to "FREE THE CS PICTURES" !!! It was to bring forth the Runes (messaging sticks) theory into the case.

Also, I agree with all who objects to the D's release of other POI's names. REDACT REDACT REDACT. I'd like to see Defense defend that unnecessary doxing.
Gull didn't place redaction rules/limits on the record after that memo; I'd like to know why not.
Yes we need runes and lawyers like we need a hole in the head.

They already released the names in the Frank's memo. BH, PW and I can't remember the other two.
 
There's a dozen lawyers across the 2 venues; Gull's Court and the SCOIN.

The headline in this article is that the AG opted out of supporting Gull at the SCOIN, which is a very rare thing.
(That's the AG's job, to provide counsel for their judges. They opt not to if they think for some reason that repping Gull would NOT be in the state's best interest.)
A dozen???? Yes I noted that about the AG too.

I think its disgraceful. The girls need justice and the perp needs a trial.
 
I am seeing only two AF guys and it is likely or possible that is how they know each other. I don't see a reason to feel people in the AF want to get involved and leak? It is as if you and I met at a breakfast club, and we became friends and leaked something, it doesn't mean the breakfast club had a thing to do with it or related at all so I am sure not following that one.

My biggest wonder here is that MS never called local LE or the prosecutor but did the defense (albeit alegedly and later). It makes sense they would contact ISP but and ONLY ISP but not then later the defense but never local LE or the prosecutor. Who knows, all of it could make sense EXCEPT for the defense unless hoping for some info or a sound byte...

The truth R guy could tell? Likely that someone else is behind it all and namely the defense and also can tell them the why and the who. The thing is there isn't much he could have gotten in trouble for imo but for Baldwin, there were big stakes. That is why MW took it all on as well. I see no reason to commit suicide IF it was suicide except 1) he may have felt like he would be a pariah for helping to ruin an important nationally known case; 2) he knew he was a dead man if he outed the real perps and reasons; and I have more but no time and that is IF this was a suicide. Another by the way is that he likely knew they would point to him and their word against his he felt wouldn't fly but more likely he was a dead man if he did come clean and he knew it. Baldwin however knew all about it and was the top guy. In my most determined opinion. Or MW was and Baldwin was more than happy to "employ" his services. Former employee my arse. Current off the books employee more like it. Contract for hire perhaps. Cash. Half kidding. No, not really kidding at all. Even though they keep all from us this is all soooo obvious with what we do have.

I don't believe for a minute anyone but the defense was behind this unless someone else was paying them or making it worth their while to do these things. Baldwin has admitted to MW doing this as has MW. Baldwin is corrupt as all get out and I'm sorry for anyone thinking otherwise but I think Rozzi is too or at least need to go. He fails to disconnect from the others and joins in to this day.
In that podcast MW says he has been in the military for 21 years? He also says he went to Law school and took the bar but failed it. Yet he also talks about interning and running Baldwin's office for several years plus attending court with him etc. He seems to idolise Baldwin. So I think he has probably been a reservist for 21 years IMO.

Have we got access to his statement?
 
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In that podcast MW says he has been in the military for 21 years? He also says he went to Law school and took the bar but failed it. Yet he also talks about interning and running Baldwin's office for several years plus attending court with him etc. He seems to idolise Baldwin. So I think he has probably been a reservist for 21 years IMO.
almost done listening to MW on MS and I've decided that his affidavit didn't make it to the docket b/c it exceeded the the state's cyber-storage capacity.
 
A dozen???? Yes I noted that about the AG too.

I think its disgraceful. The girls need justice and the perp needs a trial.
the attorneys and the judge need attorneys now because the defendant's pre-trial is teetering on being appellate-ready even b/4 the trial begins.
it is disgraceful and it needs to be cleaned up b/4 the case is thrown out entirely. JMO
 
Snipped by me
Wife said R was far beyond upset. The last thing R said to his wife was "If I tell them the truth, I will be okay." (This quote is in the email chain about the Leak between Judge. P, and D.)

OKAY so .. Here's a few burning Q's:
WHY DO A BUNCH OF AIR FORCE GUYS want to LEAK crime scene photos?
What is the "TRUTH" that R thinks he can tell the ISP so that he will be okay?

*******************

I mean, these are air force dudes with jobs and lives and families. Why do they feel so invested that they need to leak crime scene photos? Why are they on FB talking about their crime scene plots?
Maybe they leaked them for attention. We already know MW has been on MS, Baldwin more than once. Maybe they thought "ohhhhh we can get on a podcast or YT."

If I tell them the truth, I will be okay. Suppose he didn't realize they were sealed? If he honestly had no idea MW stole them, he just needed to be honest. Maybe his buddy Mitch would have not been happy, but tell the truth.

All guesses.
 
original theft of CS photos: former employee MW. Took PHOTOS of a Screen. Used his phone to push those photos out.
Sent to a Leaker R (also air force) who ... not long after .., committed suicide.


MW = former Baldwin office employee and also air force
R = got photos from MW and Leaked them - also air force (suicide)
Mark = source for MS (don't know if air force?)
MS = reported to ISP
MS = reported to the D
ISP = reported to the P

Note: P didn't tell D, nor did P tell Judge.
They just kept it as their little secret. Probably due to investigation.

30 hours after P learned of leak from ISP, D told P of leak - which (apparently) D learned from MS.

********************
R was visited by ISP with regard to the LEAK and R told investigators he wanted a lawyer. ISP left.
Wife said R was far beyond upset. The last thing R said to his wife was "If I tell them the truth, I will be okay." (This quote is in the email chain about the Leak between Judge. P, and D.)

OKAY so .. Here's a few burning Q's:
WHY DO A BUNCH OF AIR FORCE GUYS want to LEAK crime scene photos?
What is the "TRUTH" that R thinks he can tell the ISP so that he will be okay?

*******************

I mean, these are air force dudes with jobs and lives and families. Why do they feel so invested that they need to leak crime scene photos? Why are they on FB talking about their crime scene plots?
I read something saying they are all National Guard. RA, MW, RF, the O's.
 
One can't help but wonder if politics are part of this and it would be no surprise but it would not explain the gross negligence part.

They were grossly negligent, I don't care how one looks at it. We all know how to at least basically secure our "homes" and not just allow anyone willy nilly easy access when you have confidential records to keep secure and are an attorney. Nothing is going to likely get me past that.

And honestly I agree with what Tresir is thinking and I've been thinking it all along, this guy was "working" for them and doing the stuff they did not dare dirty their fingers with...

Ever since I saw the after being disqualified filings, the juvenile tone of the Franks filing has stood out to the more serious filings clearly done by real attorneys and I have asked over and over WHO wrote that?

Anyhow, what a MESS.

And contrary to the belief of some out there, I picture RA sitting back, tickled as all he77. Maybe not that "his" attorneys were taken away but with all the hullabaloo, oh yes...
With respect, a Judge empowered with running a Fair Trial, who fails to maintain a legally compliant record for a double murder trial such that the accused would lose the option of an appellate review ... and who orders a 6th Amendment violation in favor of a Franks hearing ...

... is the very definition of gross negligence.

And guess what? We don't even have to pretend that that it's not Fran's fault b/c the Clerks did it b/c these are HER written orders to whack-a-mole the docket.
 
Old D wants to pull in the RUNEs theory to the case. Was the CS staged to "look as if" it was ritualistic in order to throw off investigators and if so, who woul do such a thing (and RA would not).

To do that - they're gonna need to pull in the testimony from that line of the investigation.
These pre-hearings are to establish the parameters of testimony, evidence, and experts that will be allowed at trial. And when they have that figured out, all these witnesses - expert and otherwise - need to be deposed (by both D and P) prior to trial.

(Phew, there is so much work to do.)

Anyway, pulling in the Runes angle of testimony and theory ... that was the whole reason for the memo.

The D's reason for the memo was not to "FREE THE CS PICTURES" !!! It was to bring forth the Runes (messaging sticks) theory into the case.

Also, I agree with all who objects to the D's release of other POI's names. REDACT REDACT REDACT. I'd like to see Defense defend that unnecessary doxing.
Gull didn't place redaction rules/limits on the record after that memo; I'd like to know why not.
It may be part of the reason but their goal was to get the search warrant thrown out and anything found as a result of it or at least that's the reason for the motion, they aren't trying the case yet where the need for alternate suspects would matter more and the way it looks won't be for a very long time and those two (Old D) won't be defending him at trial anyhow most likely.

Are you saying both sides depose the other's witnesses because that's not true at least it was not in our case. They did talk with our own experts but they never deposed anyone. On either side. I've seen it done in civil litigation though more often.

Whatever the purpose of the pictures, both things were meant to shock imo and try to turn the tides. It was planned and intentional. Imo.
 
It may be part of the reason but their goal was to get the search warrant thrown out and anything found as a result of it or at least that's the reason for the motion, they aren't trying the case yet where the need for alternate suspects would matter more and the way it looks won't be for a very long time and those two (Old D) won't be defending him at trial anyhow most likely.

Are you saying both sides depose the other's witnesses because that's not true at least it was not in our case. They did talk with our own experts but they never deposed anyone. On either side. I've seen it done in civil litigation though more often.

Whatever the purpose of the pictures, both things were meant to shock imo and try to turn the tides. It was planned and intentional. Imo.
I was thinking expert witnesses (the professors and the investigators) dealing w/ the Rune theory.

Also yes, another part of the Franks memo dealt w/ search warrant evidence suppression. :thumbsup:
 
In that podcast MW says he has been in the military for 21 years? He also says he went to Law school and took the bar but failed it. Yet he also talks about interning and running Baldwin's office for several years plus attending court with him etc. He seems to idolise Baldwin. So I think he has probably been a reservist for 21 years IMO.

Have we got access to his statement?
If you ask me they had him working for them as an unlicensed attorney and he likely had full and permitted access and he likely drafted that long ridiculous memo/motion and attached the tens of thousands of things. I don't believe their story for a minute about him or what he was doing there and what his role really is. Jmo though.
 

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