Oxford, MI School Shooting *Ethan Crumbley GUILTY PLEA* - *Mom & Dad GUILTY of manslaughter*

Last edited by a moderator:

Crumbleys say they feel bullied by Oakland County prosecutor, fear tainted jury​

The Crumbley parents have requested a new court filing as their lawyers say Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald has crossed the line.

According to the couple’s lawyer, McDonald’s is bad-mouthing their clients to the media and tainting the potential jury pool. On Tuesday, the lawyers representing James and Jennifer Crumbley filed an “emergency supplemental” motion asking the 6th circuit court to restrict pretrial publicity.

Jennifer and James Crumbley want Oakland County prosecutor sanctioned for 'liars' comment​

Defense attorneys for the parents of the accused Oxford High shooting suspect filed emergency motions Tuesday seeking sanctions against Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald for alleged “unethical and inappropriate” statements and pretrial publicity.

In Tuesday’s court filing, Smith and Lehman objected to McDonald accusing them of “lying” and providing false statements to the public and news media and “doubling down on misinformation” they say will deprive the Crumbley parents to their constitutional right of a fair trial.

The defense attorneys want Oakland Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews to direct McDonald not to make public statements about any of the Crumbleys, the evidence against them or offer opinions about “intentions, knowledge or guilt.” They want McDonald to be sanctioned in a way Matthews deems fair.

The lawyers also want Matthews to instruct other prosecutors or law enforcement to similarly refrain. A hearing on defense motions is scheduled for June 27.
 
You know while I understand the position on this against the parents, I feel it is a slippery slope. If they went back and looked at the actions or lack of them or raising (or neglect or lack of mental health care) of many youth killers, I am sure many parents could have been charged and whether they should be or not I don't know and each case would be different.

Here though it is like an example is being made and the prosecutor is yes almost overzealous and really getting attention from it and seeking it...? I'm not saying this case isn't horrible and a tragedy that needs to not be forgotten but the boy is the killer.

I don't know. what I think. I do see it from all sides...
 

Ethan Crumbley trial pushed back to January 2023 in Oxford High School shooting​

The trial for accused Oxford School shooter Ethan Crumbley has been adjourned until early next year.

A tentative date had been set for Sept. 6. During a pre-trial hearing Thursday, defense for Crumbley said a September date did not seem realistic. It was already expected that the trial could be delayed.

The trial will now be held at 8:30 a.m. Jan. 17, 2023.

Since Crumbley is a juvenile, he appears in front of Judge Kwame Rowe each month, who reviews whether he should remain in the Oakland County Jail.

Typically, teens charged with crimes are housed at Children's Village. Due to the severity of Crumbley's alleged crimes, he's at the jail, where he is taking GED classes.

Another review is set for July 21 at 9 a.m.
 

James, Jennifer Crumbley Will Face Involuntary Manslaughter Charges, Judge Rules​

The parents of accused Oxford school shooter Ethan Crumbley will still face multiple involuntary manslaughter charges, a judge ruled Wednesday, despite their attempts to quash the counts against them.

Judge Cheryl Matthews said a lower court had ruled correctly that Crumbley’s parents can stand trial for the charges.

Jennifer and James Crumbley were each charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter after their teenage son allegedly shot and killed four students and injured seven other people at Oxford High School in November.

They have both pleaded not guilty and their attorneys have argued in court documents that the charges have no legal justification and the couple should not be held responsible for the killings their son is accused of committing.

But in court filings earlier this month, prosecutors argued to keep the manslaughter charges against the parents, saying their “gross negligence allowed their son access to the murder weapon and allowed him to remain in school with that murder weapon,” adding that their negligence was a “substantial factor” in the killings.

In her ruling Wednesday, Matthews sided with prosecutors and said, “a reasonable juror could conclude that his (Ethan Crumbley’s) actions were reasonably foreseeable,” and that his parents’ actions could be seen as linked to his.



Also this week, another judge ordered the school district and sheriff’s office to comply with subpoenas to release evidence from the shooting to victim’s families, according to a copy of the decision.

Circuit Court Judge Rae Lee Chabot issued that order on Thursday after hearing arguments in court.

The decision comes in a civil lawsuit filed in January by families of students who survived or were killed in the shooting against Crumbley’s parents and school workers, alleging they were negligent in their handling of the suspect.

As part of their suit, the families subpoenaed Oxford Community Schools in March and the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office in April, requesting evidence from the shooting including crime scene photos, surveillance video from the school during the shooting and the police report. The school district and sheriff’s office are not defendants in this case.

But Oakland County prosecutors have voiced concerns about the release of the evidence as they prepare for the criminal trials related to the shooting.

The Oakland County Prosecutor’s Office told CNN in a statement after the ruling that it will ask to intervene in the civil case so it can ask the judge to block the release of evidence. Oakland County assistant prosecutor Marc Keast said the office is focused on prosecuting the criminal cases and doesn’t want evidence released “prematurely” that could impact those cases.

“The civil cases are also an important part of achieving justice for the victims, but we are asking that the criminal cases be allowed to proceed before more evidence is released,” Keast said. “In addition, there is substantial research and data showing that school shooters seek notoriety, as was the case for the Oxford shooter. We want to avoid any public release of video or other evidence that could inadvertently encourage future shooters.”
 
They have three years to go after money damages in a civil suit. Most wait or are even asked to wait to not affect the criminal prosecution case/justice and evidence for same, just as is mentioned in the article here. Justice in the criminal system generally matters more to the families of victims so most are willing I feel when advised of this. It is natural to want to hit the perp from all sides with the initial rage and grief and if you don't know that, but the prosecution and detectives will advise you of that imo. Once in a blue moon a prosecutor may suggest a civil suit as it CAN get evidence if they feel they don't have enough to prosecute criminally or could use more, I watched something on a cold case or something once where they did this. They "knew" who did it but just did not have enough to arrest and they finally suggested to the family a civil suit and lo and behold in the civil suit the perp gave a different version all together of what happened and I think dropped something in his inability to remember his story perfectly after a year or two and they were then able to charge and convict him in the criminal process using that info in their criminal case.

I'm no expert but pretty sure I have this right on this subject and know some about it for various reasons. I think money damages can wait, what is the rush, although I fully understand the desire to make the perp pay and the school explain, etc....

Who is in the hurry for money damages? The parents or their civil attorney(s)? And did the civil attys advise them to file before justice was served? Hmm. Not up on it but with this big case, a school shooting, I'm sure attorneys were just knocking on their doors and calling and mailing from all over the US... Or did they go with someone local?
 

Accused Oxford shooter could be called to testify in his parents' manslaughter trial​

Defense attorneys for the parents of accused school-shooter Ethan Crumbley plan to call the couple's son as a witness in the involuntary manslaughter trial of of James and Jennifer Crumbley. Their 16-year-old son is charged with killing four students and wounding six others in a Nov. 30 shooting spree at Oxford High School.

Prosecutors say gross negligence by the parents helped lead to the tragedy at the school in northeast Oakland County.

"They (James and Jennifer Crumbley) aren't planning on throwing him (Ethan) under the bus," defense attorney Shannon Smith told Oakland County Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews on Monday. "But he could be called to provide information related to events leading up to the shooting."

Judge denies Crumbleys' request to move trial out of Oakland County​

A judge delivered a series of blows and victories to James and Jennifer Crumbley on Monday, including refusing to move their trial out of Oakland County.

To the chagrin of the defense, Oakland County Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews concluded the Crumbleys can get a fair trial in the community where their son is accused of carrying out a mass school shooting last fall. The defense had argued there was too much negative publicity and pain endured by the community to ensure a fair trial.

The judge disagreed - though she did put an end to what had turned into a key sticking point for the defense: the prosecutor's public comments about the case. Matthews issued an order prohibiting both the prosecution and defense from discussing the case with the media or on the Internet after the defense argued repeatedly that Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald was bad-mouthing the parents and hurting their chances of getting a fair trial.


The couple's lawyers on Monday also convinced the judge to keep out of trial numerous elements that they argued were irrelevant and prejudicial, including: the mom's alleged extramarital affair, the couples' alleged "messy house," pot and booze found in the home, a Nazi coin that was found in their son's bedroom and a bird's head that he allegedly hid under his bed in a jar.

Matthews ruled that all those elements are inadmissible at trial, which means the jury will not hear them.

But Matthews denied the Crumbleys' request to keep other evidence out of trial, including their son's journal, his Instagram messages and text messages he sent a friend in which he discussed his mental health issues.

Matthews held that those elements are relevant to the case and that an unbiased jury can be seated in Oakland County.
 
They're gonna call their son, the shooter, as a defense witness? What the fricking heck??!!
They're gonna try to prep him to say it wasn't their fault and he acted all on his own. Nothing they could have done would have stopped him. Probably guilt trip him. Does he want to see them in prison too? Not sure that would outway the evidence of gross negligence though.
 

Attorney for Oxford families asks court to release school shooting footage​

On Wednesday, Attorney Ven Johnson told Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Rae Lee Chabot that he viewed surveillance footage from the Nov. 30 Oxford school shooting, and while the video is graphic, releasing it to him, he says, won't violate students privacy.

"Protecting the students who are, of course, under 18 they had masks on, judge," Johnson said as he spoke to before the judge asking for the video to be released to him.

The video has been held by law enforcement and school officials who have not yet released it citing privacy concerns,

Ven Johnson represents the family of one of four students killed and other family's of injured students.


"Who we believe may have played a role in ultimately not doing their job that day and preventing the shooting that was already occurring. When if they'd done their job it could have been prevented," said Ven Johnson, attorney suing on behalf of parents.

The shooting has already raised serious issues about the shooting and if it could have been prevented.

Attorney Johnson did not say what specifically he saw on the video with two more employees.

"How about the fact that my clients after eight months of going through this tragedy had no idea that these people were even involved?," Johnson said.

In court, the attorney for Oxford Schools argued this civil lawsuit, the only one filed in state court should be put on hold until the issue of governmental immunity is taken up by the Court of Appeals and the State Supreme Court, months down the road.

This judge, said no.

"I am not going to specifically stay discovery," said Judge Rae lee Chabot, Oakland County Circuit Court in response to the district's request for a stay.


The attorney for Oxford Schools did not comment outside of court.

Attorney Johnson says there will be a protective order with the video keeping it from being made public.

But, he says he’ll have it soon.
 

Lawyer for victims' families plans to add Oxford schools in civil suit​

An attorney representing families of four students slain and others wounded in the Nov. 30 Oxford High School shooting said Wednesday he plans to add the school district to his lawsuit as a defendant.

Attorney Ven Johnson, whose firm has several related lawsuits pending in Oakland Circuit Court and federal court, said he wants to argue the unconstitutionality of the Oxford Public School District – or any government body – “to hide behind governmental immunity.”

“This is huge,” said Johnson. “The public should be outraged that the government has established super-secret rules protecting themselves which are not provided to ordinary citizens.

“I’m sure the school’s attorney will argue that they should not be a defendant in this case, but this will enable us to explore the issue,’ Johnson said.

Timothy Mullins, the attorney representing six Oxford school defendants named in the complaint, said Wednesday he filed legal briefs months ago that government immunity protection was appropriate, but is prepared to argue the matter further if necessary.

“There have been about 25 people or more that have tried to stop governmental immunity and failed,” Mullins said. “I suspect that will be case here. It's up to the judge of course, but it's possible we may have oral arguments on this sometime in October.”
 

Ethan Crumbley, accused Oxford school shooter to remain in adult jail​

Ethan Crumbley will remain in adult jail following a review hearing of his status as an incarcerated juvenile.

Crumbley's appearance in front of Judge Kwame Rowe in circuit court happened Thursday morning with no significant updates from either the prosecution or the defense. He's had several virtual meetings with the judge that also include his attorney and a guidance counselor hired to oversee the care of the 16-year-old.

The remote hearing is required by Michigan law for juveniles jailed in adult jail.

The next hearing is scheduled for Sept. 22 at 9 a.m. over Zoom.
 

Trial for James and Jennifer Crumbley, parents of accused Oxford shooter, delayed​

The trial for James and Jennifer Crumbley, the parents of the 15-year-old charged with shooting and killing four students at Oxford High School and injuring several others, has been delayed with no new date set.

The Crumbley parents were due to go on trial next month for involuntary manslaughter charges after the prosecution alleges the Crumbley parents could have done more to stop the alleged shooter of Oxford High School, Ethan Crumbley. The trial was supposed to start on October 24 but, according to the Oakland County Circuit Court records, that date has been adjourned with no new date set.

Instead, the Crumbley parents will be in court for a Daubert Hearing on Oct. 18. In this kind of hearing, the judge will review expert witness testimony and how it will apply to the case. In other words - one side is challenging an expert witness.
 

New evidence alleges Ethan Crumbley exhibited more warning signs ahead of school shooting​

New evidence uncovered during discovery of the case of Ethan Crumbley allegedly shows that Oxford High School teachers and school officials failed to respond to warning signs exhibited by the accused school shooter in the months leading up to the November 2021 shooting, attorney Ven Johnson, who represents the victims and their families in a lawsuit, told reporters Thursday.

The evidence was allegedly uncovered as several lawsuits against the school, school officials, the school district, Crumbley and his parents have been filed. At least eight lawsuits accuse the school district and others of wrongdoing and failure to act in the months and days leading up to the shooting, despite teachers and counselors allegedly being aware of concerning behavior exhibited by the accused shooter.


Johnson, in a press conference Thursday, said new details were revealed after deposing teachers and school employees who had direct contact with the accused shooter prior to the Nov. 30 shooting, including email correspondence between school employees and several instances where Crumbley's concerning behavior was not addressed.

Evidence allegedly uncovered included a school assignment submitted by Crumbley in late August 2021 on which he drew what Johnson alleged might be a magazine full of bullets, or a building. In sworn testimony, the teacher who discovered this drawing alleged she only saw the drawing on Nov. 29, just one day before the shooting.

In another instance, a Sept. 8 email from a Spanish teacher to the school's counselor discusses a school assignment in which Crumbley allegedly wrote that he feels "terrible" and that his family "was a mistake," Johnson said on Thursday.

Despite the school counselor being informed of this instance, the counselor allegedly never spoke to Crumbley, Johnson alleged.

Weeks later, a teacher sent an email to the school counselor on Nov. 10 raising concerns about Crumbley, saying he is having a rough time and that he may need to speak to the counselor, Johnson alleged.

The counselor testified in his deposition that he went down to Crumbley's classroom and asked him to step out into the hallway. The counselor then allegedly told Crumbley that if he is having a tough time, the counselor was available to speak with him. Crumbley allegedly responded "okay," according to Johnson.

Johnson criticized the counselor's actions, saying more needed to be done and that the counselor needed to follow up with Crumbley, considering this was the second time concerning behavior had been flagged to the counselor. According to Johnson, another email uncovered was sent from a teacher to the dean of students and another school official, telling them that Crumbley was seen in class looking at photos of bullets on his cell phone. The teacher then looked at some of Crumbley's previous work completed earlier in the year and said it "leans a bit toward the violent side," Johnson alleges the email said.
 
An Oakland Circuit judge denied defense attorneys’ request to have bonds modified for the parents of the accused Oxford High shooter, who are facing charges related to the Nov. 30 shooting.

The defense for James and Jennifer Crumbley has filed a new motion in the Michigan Supreme Court.

Shannon Smith who represents Jennifer Crumbley and Mariell Lehman who represents James Crumbley, in filings the attorneys are asking the state's highest court to dismiss their case and let them out of jail.

In the filing, the attorneys say:

Of course, the Crumbleys did not counsel EC in the commission of the school shooting or act jointly with EC in any way; to the contrary, the Crumbleys had no knowledge that their son intended to commit multiple homicides on November 30, 2021.
 

Ethan Crumbley has pleaded guilty to murdering 4 students at a Michigan school​

A teenager pleaded guilty Monday to terrorism and first-degree murder in a Michigan school shooting that killed four students and put an extraordinary focus on the boy's home life and the alleged role of his parents in the tragedy.

Ethan Crumbley, 16, pleaded guilty to all 24 charges, nearly a year after the attack at Oxford High School in southeastern Michigan. In the gallery, some relatives of the victims wept as assistant prosecutor Marc Keast described the crimes.

"Yes," Crumbley replied, looking down and nodding in affirmation, when asked if he "knowingly, willfully and deliberately" chose to shoot other students.

The prosecutor's office said no deals were made ahead of Monday's plea. A first-degree murder conviction typically brings an automatic life prison sentence in Michigan, but teenagers are entitled to a hearing where their lawyer can argue for a shorter term and an opportunity for parole.

The teenager withdrew his intent to pursue an insanity defense, and repeatedly acknowledged under questioning by Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Kwame Rowe that he understands the potential penalties.

The judge set Feb. 9 for the start of hearings to determine if he'll be sentenced to life without parole or get a shorter sentence due to his age, and a chance at release. His lawyers will be able to argue a variety of mitigating circumstances, including family life and mental health. Prosecutors didn't signal in court if they will argue for a no-parole sentence.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
3,005
Messages
240,358
Members
963
Latest member
sweetpeasmith
Back
Top Bottom