Epstein, Maxwell et al: exposed in child sex trafficking

Do we have a Jefferey Epstein thread?

Jeffrey Epstein Confidante Ghislaine Maxwell Arrested on Sex Abuse Charges

Ghislaine Maxwell, the British socialite and heiress who became a confidante of disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein and was later implicated in his alleged sexual crimes, has been arrested by the FBI. She was arrested in Bradford, New Hampshire, around 8:30 a.m. Thursday on charges she conspired...

www.nbcnewyork.com

 

[GrandmaBear]

No live coverge .. Federal case.

I'm a bit boggled at the moment, too much to think about in life and remember. The civil case is federal? I probably knew that somewhere deep in the brain. I wondered in fact as I said it because of locations, etc. but wasn't sure. Okay, so it will be like Twitter feeds from reporters then. IF it gets to trial.

Thanks.

 

[kdg411]

I'm a bit boggled at the moment, too much to think about in life and remember. The civil case is federal? I probably knew that somewhere deep in the brain. I wondered in fact as I said it because of locations, etc. but wasn't sure. Okay, so it will be like Twitter feeds from reporters then. IF it gets to trial.

Thanks.

Yes it is a Federal civil case.

 

[Tresir]

.

No live coverge .. Federal case.

Actually, why isn't it being prosecuted as a criminal case in NY? Does anyone know?

 

[GrandmaBear]

.

Actually, why isn't it being prosecuted as a criminal case in NY? Does anyone know?

All I know is that would be up to NY and whether they have enough and not relate to this civil federal one, that choice is up to them. No idea if statute of limitations play in, laws in the particular state, etc. Sometimes what comes out of other trials is what they wait and see... If they are even thinking about charging, hoping they can or still have that option but feel they don't have enough, they will certainly be watching this federal one with interest.

A defendant doesn't have to take the stand in a criminal trial, it is far different in a civil trial. More facts can come out or testimony. That much I know. And not much more lol.

 

[kdg411]

.

Actually, why isn't it being prosecuted as a criminal case in NY? Does anyone know?

It is civil because the lawsuit was introduced to the court by an individual. The government is not prosecuting the defendant, Mr. David Boies, Virginia Giuffre's attorney is. Andrew has not been accused of criminal acts so no criminal trial.

Did that help?

 

[GrandmaBear]

It is civil because the lawsuit was introduced to the court by an individual. The government is not prosecuting the defendant, Mr. David Boies, Virginia Giuffre's attorney is. Andrew has not been accused of criminal acts so no criminal trial.

Did that help?

Better put than I did. May not have enough or feel they have enough for a state criminal case. Two very different "ducks"/types of cases.

 

[Tresir]

Better put than I did. May not have enough or feel they have enough for a state criminal case. Two very different "ducks"/types of cases.

It is civil because the lawsuit was introduced to the court by an individual. The government is not prosecuting the defendant, Mr. David Boies, Virginia Giuffre's attorney is. Andrew has not been accused of criminal acts so no criminal trial.

Did that help?

Yes thanks. Ok so there is prob not enough evidence for the criminal burden of proof I guess. I don't think it has passed the statute of limitations because "Jane" in the Maxwell case was in the 90's whereas Guiffre is later in 2001.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yes thanks. Ok so there is prob not enough evidence for the criminal burden of proof I guess. I don't think it has passed the statute of limitations because "Jane" in the Maxwell case was in the 90's whereas Guiffre is later in 2001.

Here you go, I had to read the entire long article lol to find this at the bottom.

If Andrew loses the civil case could he face a criminal suit?

Defence attorney Julie Rendelman played down the prospect of any criminal charges being filed over Andrew's case.

She told The Guardian: 'I believe that [Maxwell] is the final piece in terms of criminal charges involving Epstein. I'm pretty confident prosecutors spent this time evaluating every piece of evidence to see if there is anything else.

'I think they realised the strongest case is Ghislaine, and that's what they went for.'

Of course it just comes as an opinion from a defense attorney but it is probably the case. They brought the big one against Maxwell, then there is this civil one and they will likely leave it at that, do you think that's what it is saying? She seems to say in a roundabout way that evaluation gave them the strongest evidence against Maxwell more than charges against Andrew?

Prince Andrew WILL face a civil sex case trial

Judge Lewis A Kaplan dismissed an application from Prince Andrew's lawyers to have the case dismissed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tresir]

Here you go, I had to read the entire long article lol to find this at the bottom.

If Andrew loses the civil case could he face a criminal suit?

Defence attorney Julie Rendelman played down the prospect of any criminal charges being filed over Andrew's case.

She told The Guardian: 'I believe that [Maxwell] is the final piece in terms of criminal charges involving Epstein. I'm pretty confident prosecutors spent this time evaluating every piece of evidence to see if there is anything else.

'I think they realised the strongest case is Ghislaine, and that's what they went for.'

Of course it just comes as an opinion from a defense attorney but it is probably the case. They brought the big one against Maxwell, then there is this civil one and they will likely leave it at that, do you think that's what it is saying? She seems to say in a roundabout way that evaluation gave them the strongest evidence against Maxwell more than charges against Andrew?

Prince Andrew WILL face a civil sex case trial

Judge Lewis A Kaplan dismissed an application from Prince Andrew's lawyers to have the case dismissed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Well we know Jean Luc Brunel is still to be tried, so it is not yet over, especially with the retrial or appeal for Maxwell also possibly in the pipeline and the naming of the John Does, Dershowitz case, possibly now the Julie Brown civil case. It is almost like it is never ending. Eg if Andrew does see the inside of a courtroom and loses, could a criminal trial follow, I wonder, as asked in the article but not really answered? Maxwell settled a civil trial and then was criminally prosecuted. If she wins either a retrial or an appeal result, I think that would be the end though, possibly.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well we know Jean Luc Brunel is still to be tried, so it is not yet over, especially with the retrial or appeal for Maxwell also possibly in the pipeline and the naming of the John Does, Dershowitz case, possibly now the Julie Brown civil case. It is almost like it is never ending. Eg if Andrew does see the inside of a courtroom and loses, could a criminal trial follow, I wonder, as asked in the article but not really answered? Maxwell settled a civil trial and then was criminally prosecuted. If she wins either a retrial or an appeal result, I think that would be the end though, possibly.

I think (jmo) that again this trial with Andrew will be watched with regard to considering other charges. Testimony and facts may come out that they can use in a criminal trial. However, when one considers that Andrew does not even have to attend nor do royal witnesses, etc. if they choose not to, he may offer no testimony of any kind. I don't want him to do that but he would be wise to pay up and shut up if he has that option imo. But it wouldn't make him look good... But then he already doesn't...

 

[Tresir]

I think (jmo) that again this trial with Andrew will be watched with regard to considering other charges. Testimony and facts may come out that they can use in a criminal trial. However, when one considers that Andrew does not even have to attend nor do royal witnesses, etc. if they choose not to, he may offer no testimony of any kind. I don't want him to do that but he would be wise to pay up and shut up if he has that option imo. But it wouldn't make him look good... But then he already doesn't...

I thought someone said he has to testify or will get a default judgement against him? No ?

 

[kdg411]

I thought someone said he has to testify or will get a default judgement against him? No ?

That is incorrect. Andrew has to participate in the case by sitting for a deposition. He is not required to testify. If he declines to answer to the deposition then that inaction could cause a Judge to make a default judgement on behalf of the plaintiff.

 

[Tresir]

That is incorrect. Andrew has to participate in the case by sitting for a deposition. He is not required to testify. If he declines to answer to the deposition then that inaction could cause a Judge to make a default judgement on behalf of the plaintiff.

Ah ok. So the deposition could be taken in a lawyers office, as happened with Maxwell, who was then going to be charged with perjury based on her deposition. If he does not give a deposition at all, then the default judgement could happen. Where does the jury come in? If he does not give a deposition, does a judge decide it or the jury? Or does the jury only sit if he appears in person? Sorry for all the questions.

 

[kdg411]

Ah ok. So the deposition could be taken in a lawyers office, as happened with Maxwell, who was then going to be charged with perjury based on her deposition. If he does not give a deposition at all, then the default judgement could happen. Where does the jury come in? If he does not give a deposition, does a judge decide it or the jury? Or does the jury only sit if he appears in person? Sorry for all the questions.

Ask all the questions you want.

If he does not give a deposition then the presiding Judge would most likely rule for the plaintiff without a jury even being seated.

If he does sit for the deposition & provide evidence in the discovery process the court will set a trial date.

The jury process with a Federal trial is different in that they are selected & seated by the date ordered by the Judge.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I thought someone said he has to testify or will get a default judgement against him? No ?

Yes, but he has that option. He can just not fight it and not go. That's what I meant. And that's why I meant it wouldn't look good for him, be like admitting guilt. In a criminal case, a defendant would be in contempt if he did not show, not in a civil one in many cases (maybe all).

 

[Tresir]

So what we were discussing is going to happen. Apparently Prince Andrew will give a deposition in March. (First link) However, he is also seeking to portray his accuser as a recruiter for Epstein and is asking for the photo. (See second link) I notice that the NM meeting, when she took the Prince horse riding, is not one of the occasions mentioned. I wonder if she considers that was consensual?

It's all happening in the Queens Jubilee year. Today, the Queen celebrates 70 years on the throne. (Third and fourth link below.) This woman is amazing.

Prince Andrew to give evidence in deposition in March

The Duke of York will face a deposition in London as part of the civil sexual assault case against him.

www.bbc.co.uk

Prince Andrew to seek 'high-risk' testimony from Epstein victim

Prince Andrew's 'unclean hands' defence strategy will see his lawyers argue Virginia Roberts does not deserve damages because she was complicit in a 'criminal enterprise'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Queen holds reception to mark Platinum Jubilee

The monarch is said to be on "sparkling" form ahead of the 70th anniversary of her reign.

www.bbc.co.uk

Accession Day 2022

This year's Accession Day - on 6 February 2022 - marks 70 years since The Queen acceded to the throne on the death of her father King George VI. Her Majesty has gone on to reign longer than any other British Monarch in history, and to become a beloved figure around the world. Find out more about...

www.royal.uk

 

[Tresir]

OT but am wondering if this is going to be the next sex scandal ?

Hugh Hefner's ex-girlfriend Sondra Theodore on being 'groomed' by Playboy founder: 'I saw the devil in him'

Hugh Hefner’s ex-girlfriend and former Playmate Sondra Theodore is speaking out in a new docuseries on A&E titled "Secrets of Playboy."

www.foxnews.com

 

[GrandmaBear]

So what we were discussing is going to happen. Apparently Prince Andrew will give a deposition in March. (First link) However, he is also seeking to portray his accuser as a recruiter for Epstein and is asking for the photo. (See second link) I notice that the NM meeting, when she took the Prince horse riding, is not one of the occasions mentioned. I wonder if she considers that was consensual?

It's all happening in the Queens Jubilee year. Today, the Queen celebrates 70 years on the throne. (Third and fourth link below.) This woman is amazing.

Prince Andrew to give evidence in deposition in March

The Duke of York will face a deposition in London as part of the civil sexual assault case against him.

www.bbc.co.uk

Prince Andrew to seek 'high-risk' testimony from Epstein victim

Prince Andrew's 'unclean hands' defence strategy will see his lawyers argue Virginia Roberts does not deserve damages because she was complicit in a 'criminal enterprise'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Queen holds reception to mark Platinum Jubilee

The monarch is said to be on "sparkling" form ahead of the 70th anniversary of her reign.

www.bbc.co.uk

Accession Day 2022

This year's Accession Day - on 6 February 2022 - marks 70 years since The Queen acceded to the throne on the death of her father King George VI. Her Majesty has gone on to reign longer than any other British Monarch in history, and to become a beloved figure around the world. Find out more about...

www.royal.uk

She is amazing and her long term reign and seeing to her perceived "duties" all through is notable, but I don't think much of the sons she raised.

Personally, if I were her and she can, I'd skip over Charles and Camilla and hand the reigns to William and Kate.

 

[RoundPeg]

She is amazing and her long term reign and seeing to her perceived "duties" all through is notable, but I don't think much of the sons she raised.

Personally, if I were her and she can, I'd skip over Charles and Camilla and hand the reigns to William and Kate.

Definitely gonna be Charles and Camilla. She announced Camilla will be known as Queen Consort.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Definitely gonna be Charles and Camilla. She announced Camilla will be known as Queen Consort.

Yeah I heard some blips about it, not much. Figured if it was said then it is a done deal basically. There isn't any date of his taking the throne though is there? Or is there.. Not up on it much.