Epstein, Maxwell et al: exposed in child sex trafficking

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Do we have a Jefferey Epstein thread?

 
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Two references regarding sentencing.




Former prosecutor Maggy Krell told Law&Crime in a phone interview that Maxwell has a “tough road ahead.”

“She enjoyed a vigorous defense at trial, and she had a meticulous jury that inspected the evidence for multiple days,” noted Krell, the author of “Taking Down Backpage.” “At this point, she’s really going to have to face the music. I mean, these crimes carry 10-year minimums. She turned 60 last week, so she’s looking at possibly serving the rest of her life.”
 
I resent your ridiculous comment insinuating "I know something". WTH do you mean ?

She is not facing 40-65. That is the maximum. She is not the main or even the only conspirator. She won't get the maximum is what I am saying. She will likely get the minimum. 1 year for each of the 1-5 year counts and 3-5 for the trafficking - all to run concurrently meaning 5 years max IMO, time served to be taken into account means she could be out by July. Yes I could be wrong but with the main conspirator getting off with a slap on the wrist, there is precedent. We shall see.
It wasn't meant that way. It was meant as in there is no other reason with the tons of times people have nicely tried to explain it over months here you would still think this. Say whatever you like but I thought the last long term go around with it you finaly had an idea of the difference in the cases, federal court, Florida court, deals taken versus convictions, etc. And that went on over and over and now here it is the same thing again.

It's fine, I don't have to get into it, the others who also explained many times can repeat it all if you like. You read as much or more news than anyone and so I fail to see why you still think these things and so that is how I meant that remark as I don't know why else you would be thinking this way still as to how sentencing and the system works.

She is facing a maximum of 40 (some say) or 65 (some say) not TO, not 40 TO 65. Some news sources say the max is 40 and some say 65. I looked yesterday and know this. No one said a minimum of 40 TO 65.

So YES she IS FACING a maximum of one OR the other, depending on which sources have the maximum correct. The minimum she is facing is not detailed but I'll wager with you if you like because the odds are my favor that with the number of convictions and on the most serious one as well she is not going to get some slap on the wrist as you seem to think.

As to people meaning something by a remark, what was yours of you didn't want all others to be disappointed when she gets off lightly for a sentence...? Kind of loaded that remark was imo.

A jury of our American peers found Maxwell GUILTY of real CRIMES, this isn't some fictional novel. She isn't going to get a slap on the wrist. She has not won an appeal and it doesn't play in. Neither does Epstein's sentence as he was NOT TRIED and convicted of Maxwell's same crimes in federal court.

Yes, her defense attorneys can argue for a light sentence based on whatever they can try or try to claim but good luck with that. There are recommended sentences and maximums and for a judge to deviate from a "norm" to a slap on the wrist type of sentence that you think would disappoint whoever "we" are and it would be career and reputation suicide AND she is GUILTY of charges that rack up to many years for sentencing no matter how one looks at it.

Why would a judge go light? If paid or if friends of Maxwell, etc... They have no other legitimate reason to do so that I can see. So why do you think the judge will?

She may get as some think 20 to 25 and if she does, Maxwell should thank whoever it is she prays to. THAT sentence would be 1/3 or 1/2 depending on the 40 OR 65 year max and she'd be darned lucky to get that.

Anyhow, say what you like, I don't have to agree with it. You are welcome to your opinion as am I as well, we don't have to agree. And I don't agree with you.

This case is finished, except for if she wins an appeal and even then a win doesn't always overturn a conviction or change anything, and it certainly changes nothing right now. She is convicted, she is going to be sentenced to prison and she is history until or if anything happens on appeal.
 
I resent your ridiculous comment insinuating "I know something". WTH do you mean ?

She is not facing 40-65. That is the maximum. She is not the main or even the only conspirator. She won't get the maximum is what I am saying. She will likely get the minimum. 1 year for each of the 1-5 year counts and 3-5 for the trafficking - all to run concurrently meaning 5 years max IMO, time served to be taken into account means she could be out by July. Yes I could be wrong but with the main conspirator getting off with a slap on the wrist, there is precedent. We shall see.
The main conspirator cut a deal. Maxwell didn't. Been said. The main conspirator was never tried in federal court, Maxwell was. Been said. The main conspirator was not convicted of all the charges Maxwell was. Been said. This was not the main conspirator's trial, it is Maxwell's. He never had one. She will not be out by July, I'll bet on it. And I see no fathomable reason on God's green earth she'd deserve a minimum.
 
I agree 100 percent with this and share the same opinion:

Maxwell’s sex trafficking charge is the most serious one she faced, with a maximum prison term of 40 years. In total, Maxwell faces up to 65 years in prison when sentenced. At 60, it is likely she will spend the rest of her life behind bars.

Judge Alison Nathan did not say when Maxwell would be sentenced. She also separately faces two perjury counts that will be tried at a later date.

Sarah Krissoff, a former prosecutor with the southern district of New York, told the BBC she expects “a very significant prison sentence” for Maxwell. “Given the involvement of minors, the judge has really great discretion to impose a significant sentence, and based on the evidence that was presented at trial, frankly, I expect the judge to impose a very severe sentence upon her.”


I'll give some weight to a former federal prosecutor's opinion on sentencing and guidelines based on the facts and evidence in this case.

As we know, they are likely not going to pursue the more minor perjury charges but the rest all applies. This also explains where both the 40 year idea and 65 year idea comes from I believe.

For me, with other cases not concluded and recent or heading for trial, etc., this case is going on my back burner until sentencing in June unless there is some real new news on Maxwell's case. She has been tried and convicted and only needs to be sentenced.

The above comes from this article:

 
I agree 100 percent with this and share the same opinion:

Maxwell’s sex trafficking charge is the most serious one she faced, with a maximum prison term of 40 years. In total, Maxwell faces up to 65 years in prison when sentenced. At 60, it is likely she will spend the rest of her life behind bars.

Judge Alison Nathan did not say when Maxwell would be sentenced. She also separately faces two perjury counts that will be tried at a later date.

Sarah Krissoff, a former prosecutor with the southern district of New York, told the BBC she expects “a very significant prison sentence” for Maxwell. “Given the involvement of minors, the judge has really great discretion to impose a significant sentence, and based on the evidence that was presented at trial, frankly, I expect the judge to impose a very severe sentence upon her.”


I'll give some weight to a former federal prosecutor's opinion on sentencing and guidelines based on the facts and evidence in this case.

As we know, they are likely not going to pursue the more minor perjury charges but the rest all applies. This also explains where both the 40 year idea and 65 year idea comes from I believe.

For me, with other cases not concluded and recent or heading for trial, etc., this case is going on my back burner until sentencing in June unless there is some real new news on Maxwell's case. She has been tried and convicted and only needs to be sentenced.

The above comes from this article:

She is to be sentenced on the 28th June, so that bit is wrong and the perjury charge has been dropped. I understand how they all work out the maximum but I do not believe she will get the maximum for all the reasons I have already stated. We have seen Cosby released after only three years. We saw Epstein not even serve a year in jail. We see Weinstein looking like he is going to get a reduction. We see no sign of the other conspirators, of which there are at least four, being prosecuted. We see no other people at all likely to come to trial it seems. All these reasons make me think the way I do. In the event she gets the maximum, there will clearly be an appeal anyway as already stated by her lawyers. I do not appreciate being attacked for my comments. I would also like to know why the other conspirators are not being pursued.

This is a recent example of federal sentencing for sex trafficking. 15 years in prison.


This involved forced drug abuse, beating and raping.
 
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Two references regarding sentencing.




Former prosecutor Maggy Krell told Law&Crime in a phone interview that Maxwell has a “tough road ahead.”

“She enjoyed a vigorous defense at trial, and she had a meticulous jury that inspected the evidence for multiple days,” noted Krell, the author of “Taking Down Backpage.” “At this point, she’s really going to have to face the music. I mean, these crimes carry 10-year minimums. She turned 60 last week, so she’s looking at possibly serving the rest of her life.”
This bit

"If the victim was under the age of 14 or if force, fraud, or coercion were used, the penalty is not less than 15 years in prison up to life. If the victim was aged 14-17, the penalty shall not be less than 10 years in prison up to life. Anyone who obstructs or attempts to obstruct the enforcement of this statute faces as many as 20 years imprisonment. Defendants who are convicted under this statute are also required to pay restitution to their victims for any losses they caused."

I don't believe any victims were under 14 were they? So the 14-17 age could be relevant and she could have to pay restitution, although Epstein estate has arguably already compensated them.
 
This bit

"If the victim was under the age of 14 or if force, fraud, or coercion were used, the penalty is not less than 15 years in prison up to life. If the victim was aged 14-17, the penalty shall not be less than 10 years in prison up to life. Anyone who obstructs or attempts to obstruct the enforcement of this statute faces as many as 20 years imprisonment. Defendants who are convicted under this statute are also required to pay restitution to their victims for any losses they caused."

I don't believe any victims were under 14 were they? So the 14-17 age could be relevant and she could have to pay restitution, although Epstein estate has arguably already compensated them.
In all honesty, the sentencing is completely at the discretion of Judge Nathan. No one knows how she will decide this aspect.

Please accept my apology for feeling attacked regarding your posts. We all can agree to disagree. Arguing our position does nothing but create more speculation. US Federal law is unlike any other country and we give these Judges a lot of discretion on how they interpret the law. In June, we will see what position Judge Nathan takes.
 
In all honesty, the sentencing is completely at the discretion of Judge Nathan. No one knows how she will decide this aspect.

Please accept my apology for feeling attacked regarding your posts. We all can agree to disagree. Arguing our position does nothing but create more speculation. US Federal law is unlike any other country and we give these Judges a lot of discretion on how they interpret the law. In June, we will see what position Judge Nathan takes.
TY for your apology, but you have nothing to apologise for. I am not a person who is easily intimidated and if posters wish to attack me for my opinions, as they seem to like to do quite a lot, I will respond. Eg. What makes you think that/say that/take that position/ etc will generally need a response.

This article mentions she could get as low as 10 to 15 years due to several factors. If I find anything else, I will continue to update here. As we get closer to June, I am sure more articles will weigh in on this.


"Prosecutors will calculate their recommended punishment based on federal sentencing guidelines, weighing a number of variables including that Maxwell is a first-time offender.


“There are a lot of factors that could play in here to bump that number up,” such as that there were “vulnerable victims of a complex scheme” and Maxwell “was arguably a leader or organizer of this scheme,” Honig said.

Levenson said that based on the guidelines and the fact that Maxwell has no priors, she could get as low as 10 to 15 years.

“Unlike state sentences where a defendant could earn ‘good time/work time’ conduct credits, defendants usually must serve most of a federal sentence,” she added.

Rahmani’s estimated calculation, however, was that prosecutors would recommend between 20 to 25 years.

It would then be up to Judge Alison Nathan to decide whether to go up to the maximum." "
 
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1649170411705.pnghttps://www.state.gov › uploadsPDF
2020 Trafficking in Persons Report - State Department

1649170411970.jpeg
16 Jun 2020 — 2020 TRAFFICKING


This is a very large trafficking report of 570 pages and the US info begins on page 515. I have copied the prosecution data from that page.


This is data from the US prosecutions on page 515.

Of these FY 2019
prosecutions, 208 involved predominantly sex trafficking and 12
involved predominantly labor trafficking, compared to 213 and
17 in FY 2018, respectively.
During FY 2019, DOJ secured convictions against 475 traffickers, a
decrease from 526 convictions in FY 2018. Of these, 454 involved
predominantly sex trafficking and 21 involved predominantly
labor trafficking, compared to 501 and 25 in FY 2018, respectively.
These prosecutions and convictions include cases brought under
trafficking-specific criminal statutes and non-trafficking criminal
statutes, but they do not include child sex trafficking cases
brought under non-trafficking statutes. Among the 266 traffickers
sentenced to prison in cases brought under trafficking-specific
criminal statutes, which excludes trafficking cases brought under
non-trafficking statutes, terms ranged from one month to life
imprisonment, with more than 78 percent of defendants receiving
prison sentences of five or more years. Four traffickers received a
probation-only sentence, and 11 received a suspended sentence.
 
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View attachment 14466https://www.state.gov › uploadsPDF
2020 Trafficking in Persons Report - State Department

View attachment 14467
16 Jun 2020 — 2020 TRAFFICKING


This is a very large trafficking report of 570 pages and the US info begins on page 515. I have copied the prosecution data from that page.


This is data from the US prosecutions on page 515.

Of these FY 2019
prosecutions, 208 involved predominantly sex trafficking and 12
involved predominantly labor trafficking, compared to 213 and
17 in FY 2018, respectively.
During FY 2019, DOJ secured convictions against 475 traffickers, a
decrease from 526 convictions in FY 2018. Of these, 454 involved
predominantly sex trafficking and 21 involved predominantly
labor trafficking, compared to 501 and 25 in FY 2018, respectively.
These prosecutions and convictions include cases brought under
trafficking-specific criminal statutes and non-trafficking criminal
statutes, but they do not include child sex trafficking cases
brought under non-trafficking statutes. Among the 266 traffickers
sentenced to prison in cases brought under trafficking-specific
criminal statutes, which excludes trafficking cases brought under
non-trafficking statutes, terms ranged from one month to life
imprisonment, with more than 78 percent of defendants receiving
prison sentences of five or more years. Four traffickers received a
probation-only sentence, and 11 received a suspended sentence.
" but they do not include child sex trafficking cases"

so at the very least, nearly all of those were adults being trafficked and only convictions.
 
View attachment 14466https://www.state.gov › uploadsPDF
2020 Trafficking in Persons Report - State Department

View attachment 14467
16 Jun 2020 — 2020 TRAFFICKING


This is a very large trafficking report of 570 pages and the US info begins on page 515. I have copied the prosecution data from that page.


This is data from the US prosecutions on page 515.

Of these FY 2019
prosecutions, 208 involved predominantly sex trafficking and 12
involved predominantly labor trafficking, compared to 213 and
17 in FY 2018, respectively.
During FY 2019, DOJ secured convictions against 475 traffickers, a
decrease from 526 convictions in FY 2018. Of these, 454 involved
predominantly sex trafficking and 21 involved predominantly
labor trafficking, compared to 501 and 25 in FY 2018, respectively.
These prosecutions and convictions include cases brought under
trafficking-specific criminal statutes and non-trafficking criminal
statutes, but they do not include child sex trafficking cases
brought under non-trafficking statutes. Among the 266 traffickers
sentenced to prison in cases brought under trafficking-specific
criminal statutes, which excludes trafficking cases brought under
non-trafficking statutes, terms ranged from one month to life
imprisonment, with more than 78 percent of defendants receiving
prison sentences of five or more years. Four traffickers received a
probation-only sentence, and 11 received a suspended sentence.
Thank you for providing this data. I have a question .. the page # you referenced (515) is regarding Ukraine so I wanted to find out more about the statistics in your post.

*I apologize, the page #'s showed up after a refresh. Disregard my previous request. I look forward to reviewing this information.
 
" but they do not include child sex trafficking cases"

so at the very least, nearly all of those were adults being trafficked and only convictions.
I think the actual wording states
"but they do not include child sex trafficking cases brought
under non-trafficking statutes" which has a completely different meaning to what you posted. They cannot separate the child cases for some reason. This could be due to the varying age of consent across the country. Eg. New Mexico.

I think a child is defined in the statute as a person under 14. 14-17 is a minor. Over 17 is an adult. Perhaps the figures were for over age 14 if they do not include child trafficking. However, I think they are just highlighting the fact that the child non trafficking statute figures are excluded, whereas the adult figures include the non trafficking statutes.

By all means post the child trafficking non trafficking statutes data too though, if you have it and wish to compare.
 
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Thank you for providing this data. I have a question .. the page # you referenced (515) is regarding Ukraine so I wanted to find out more about the statistics in your post.

*I apologize, the page #'s showed up after a refresh. Disregard my previous request. I look forward to reviewing this information.
I have also found the most recent 2021 report. The US data begins on page 584.


The conviction data below is from page 586.

"During FY 2020, DOJ secured convictions against 309 traffickers,
a significant decrease from 475 convictions in FY 2019 and 526 in
FY 2018. Of these, 297 involved predominantly sex trafficking and
12 involved predominantly labor trafficking, compared to 454 and
21 in FY 2019; 501 and 25 in FY 2018; and 471 and 28 in FY 2017,
respectively. Federal courthouses closed or operated at limited capacity
for about six months of the reporting period due to the pandemic,
and most human trafficking-related trials scheduled for FY 2020 were
postponed to FY 2021. In addition, some enforcement operations were
postponed; some witness interviews were postponed or happened
virtually; grand juries were not able to convene for a period of time,
delaying presentation of indictments; and some investigative work
that required travel or in-person contacts was delayed.
These prosecutions and convictions include cases brought under
trafficking-specific criminal statutes and non-trafficking criminal
statutes, but they do not include child sex trafficking cases brought
under non-trafficking statutes. Among the 168 traffickers sentenced
to prison in cases brought under trafficking-specific criminal statutes,
which excludes trafficking cases brought under non-trafficking statutes,
terms ranged from one month to life imprisonment, with more than
76 percent of defendants receiving prison sentences of five or more
years. Two traffickers received a probation-only sentence, and six
received a suspended sentence. "

My note - as before, this states that this does not include child sex trafficking cases brought under non trafficking statutes.
 
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This article is helpful in explaining the subject of sex trafficking of children and minors. Some minors are still prosecuted as prostitutes in some states. Also, the law changed in 2005. Result- it's complicated.


Apparently, as at Dec 2020, 19 US states still prosecuted minors as prostitutes. Including New Jersey and New York. Map and details at this link.


I have also found this report which is specifically about minors and sex trafficking statistics. Sounds like it is a big problem.


I think this is probably plenty of background for now and looks like it provides plenty of examples.
 
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The crimes Ghislaine Maxwell was indicted & found guilty of are in US 18 U.S.C. section 1581 – 1597; however those are human trafficking charges. The US sex trafficking legal codes are under 22 U.S.C. 7102.

I bring this up because after working with the FBI to prosecute a case that sex trafficker was also sentenced under 18 section 2422(a) which is human trafficking. It is perplexing as to why the two different statutes exist and what the crimes are punishable under each. (A legal expert in this subject matter would be appreciated.)

I'm still reading on each though for a better understanding. In each, thus far, the Federal Judge determines the minimum/maximum sentencing which means Judge Nathan ultimately will decide the punishment.
 
The crimes Ghislaine Maxwell was indicted & found guilty of are in US 18 U.S.C. section 1581 – 1597; however those are human trafficking charges. The US sex trafficking legal codes are under 22 U.S.C. 7102.

I bring this up because after working with the FBI to prosecute a case that sex trafficker was also sentenced under 18 section 2422(a) which is human trafficking. It is perplexing as to why the two different statutes exist and what the crimes are punishable under each. (A legal expert in this subject matter would be appreciated.)

I'm still reading on each though for a better understanding. In each, thus far, the Federal Judge determines the minimum/maximum sentencing which means Judge Nathan ultimately will decide the punishment.
The only difference I have seen so far is that the abuse, force and coercion does not have to be present for the crime of sex trafficking to apply to minors.
 
The only difference I have seen so far is that the abuse, force and coercion does not have to be present for the crime of sex trafficking to apply to minors.
True. I've also been researching the punishment has to be dated from when the crime occurred which in this case is 1994-1997. I'm digging into case law now to see what the sentencing guidelines were then.
 
True. I've also been researching the punishment has to be dated from when the crime occurred which in this case is 1994-1997. I'm digging into case law now to see what the sentencing guidelines were then.
There are two periods - "Jane" was 94-97 and Carolyn was 2003-2005 I think. I would not be surprised if the guidelines changed as that is more than ten years between those dates. Wonder why no victims testified from the period in between ?

I also notice the indictment talks about her and Epstein as if he is being indicted with her. The indictment does not seem to mention Carolyn and the charges in the 2000's. Is there a separate indictment for those charges?

Also, while I was looking for reports earlier today, I came across this link that does discuss the two statutes you mention. It may answer some of the questions between the two statutes.

 
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There are two periods - "Jane" was 94-97 and Carolyn was 2003-2005 I think. I would not be surprised if the guidelines changed as that is more than ten years between those dates. Wonder why no victims testified from the period in between ?

I also notice the indictment talks about her and Epstein as if he is being indicted with her. The indictment does not seem to mention Carolyn and the charges in the 2000's. Is there a separate indictment for those charges?

Also, while I was looking for reports earlier today, I came across this link that does discuss the two statutes you mention. It may answer some of the questions between the two statutes.

Here is the link for Ghislaine's indictment, it opens as a pdf file. As far as I can decipher, the dates range from approximately 1994-1997. Maybe I'm missing a revised indictment?

As for the mention of her & Epstein being indicted together .. she was convicted of 18 USC 371 which is Conspiracy to commit the act. That's the only logical explanation I can seem to come up with.

On the last page of the indictment it lists the actual US Codes that she was indicted on and that's what I'm trying to research.

Manadatory minimum sentencing is another hot topic. I came across this article that helps explain some of it.
 
Here is the link for Ghislaine's indictment, it opens as a pdf file. As far as I can decipher, the dates range from approximately 1994-1997. Maybe I'm missing a revised indictment?

As for the mention of her & Epstein being indicted together .. she was convicted of 18 USC 371 which is Conspiracy to commit the act. That's the only logical explanation I can seem to come up with.

On the last page of the indictment it lists the actual US Codes that she was indicted on and that's what I'm trying to research.

Manadatory minimum sentencing is another hot topic. I came across this article that helps explain some of it.
I think there must be another indictment also, or a revised one. That one only has six charges, including the two perjury charges. They were dropped and 2 more charges must have been added for the Carolyn charges to bring it back up to the final 6 charges against her.

ETA according to this article, the Carolyn charges were added at a later date.

 
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