Four students murdered at University of Idaho *ARREST*

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Got my Masters degree from here. :(

Killer who stabbed 4 Idaho students to death still at large​

The killer — or killers — who stabbed four University of Idaho students to death remained at large Tuesday, prompting many students to leave the campus in the idyllic small town despite police assurances that there was no imminent risk to the community.

So many students had left the scenic tree-lined campus in Moscow, Idaho, by Tuesday that university officials said a candlelight vigil scheduled for the next day would instead be held after the Thanksgiving break.

The students, all close friends, were found dead in an off-campus rental home around noon on Sunday, and officials said they likely were killed several hours earlier. Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt told the Spokane, Washington-based television station KXLY that her preliminary investigation showed the students were stabbed to death. There is no indication that substance use was involved in the deaths, Mabbutt said.
 
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I don't like that the bit of slant in Daily Mail is that this case has problems and isn't a slam dunk, etc. Or citing a thinking head or two of an attorney who think so. There is NOT ONE reason to think that at all. ZERO. Other than a typical defense trying to question or explain TOO MANY things away, while the prosecution stays quiet. Big deal. Normal b.s. but stupider than some.
 
I don't even know where to start, so many comments and thoughts came as I read that very long article. I won't even remember them all due to its length. Pretty good timeline though at the end. And detailed.

There were mistakes in it, one is that the surviving roommates were not both on the bottom floor as DM says. They also said both roommates had went to bed prior to the others coming home and did not awaken until the next morning. While the killings did happen in the wee morning hours, they give the impression the roommates slept through it and this is not true of Dylan who was awake and saw him.

I don't know that I will get or can take time for all the remarks I want to make and I also don't want to make one convoluted post so let's start with this one. From the article:

Steve Goncalves said that his daughter was stuck in her bedroom because of the property layout in Moscow, Idaho, on the night she was murdered.

Daily Mail can be hard to trust as to exactness sometimes and I haven't seen the show but I wonder if this is direct quote of Steve? The "because of the property" layout makes it sound as if the bed HAD to be against the walls due to how the room was or property was, etc. And we can intuit that may be also means she couldn't get out of the room due to layout or some such, hard to say.

IF this is a direct quote and that's a big IF, this sounds like lawsuit talk, as if they are going to sue the property owner, house builder, etc. or whomever, but most likely the owner. If it is NOT a direct quote or he misspoke and just mean how the bed was in the room, etc. then forget everything I just said.

While I ENTIRELY understand how stressful and awful it is to hold in all details and stay silent, I am having trouble understanding this family's need for one to tell of the gore, for another to believe their daughter was not the target but also a need to believe she fought back or would have escaped and the need to believe he intended to kill only one person. ALL of this may be true but even if it is, the NEED to convince others of not his guilt but these other things that are not necessarily to do with his guilt so much as their need to believe something AND share it is odd to me and I don't understand it.

IF he only intended one victim and IF things went awry, then that negates a lot of the overkill buzz and attention and focus of out there things like serial killers, other victims, budding serial killer, Dennis Rader connections and more doesn't it? It makes him not normal but more of a "normal" killer, obsessed with, rejected by or knowing ONE victim and intending her as the target. I can only assume they mean Maddie was his target and of course her body was in their daughter's way to safety. I have to say that if she had managed to spring from the bed I find it doubtful she would have survived., made it out of the room, much less out of the home or to safety. Xana and Ethan did not and there were two of them. To be fair, this is probably somewhat normal in such an awful grief process as a murder brings with it I guess although I don't entirely understand the need of some of it or to say it publicly. The need to blame may be normal BUT they aren't really focusing on him so much and are even saying he only intended to kill one which may be the case but still...

So as to the serial killer talk and things like that, it all goes out the window pretty much and the idea of him intending to be a known mass murderer goes out the window too IF he only had one victim in mind. This changes every thought we and the rest of the public have had for almost a year. It may mean he had NO IDEA Kaylee was visiting or there on the second floor. IF THE GONCALVES MOTHER'S STATEMENT IS TRUE AND NOT JUST A NEED TO BELIEVE IT OR CONJECTURE. It means he only had murderous intent on ONE that he maybe knew, obsessed with, was rejected by, fantasized about, etc. AND it may mean he did not even intend to kill but to rape and strike fear into, WHO KNOWS? But he found Kaylee present. AND a DOG TOO. He wouldn't have necessarily known that either then. He may well have believed Maddie lived alone on the top floor and he'd just enter and go up and then leave and go out.

That's enough for now. It is enough to point out what this statement DOES. And it does a whole lot more than that. It harkens back to the police saying there was no danger to the community and this family stating they thought there was one intended target etc. It doesn't lessen that BK killed four people but it lessens in a way his intent and the grand scheme of it all, etc. and how bad even he appears.

I don't know that what they are doing and saying is wise.

I have a lot of other thoughts about the defense attorney and some of the stuff in here. And about the show and publicity and them speaking on it etc. I don't though have hours to share those thoughts and probably won't get around to it. We will see.

I'll mention just one. They say the defense atty. accused the cops basically of planting the DNA on the sheath. This is downright DUMB for a lot of reasons I can mention. Absolutely asinine. It is dumber than the no alibi alibi that may appear but not sure so they don't know if he has one but maybe he does depending on what others say or comes up, etc. People can laud her all they want. In the beginning I bought into her reputation and thought oh NO, they gave him a GREAT attorney. I'm not on that page any longer. Far from it.

In closing, I feel Kaylee's parents are blaming Maddie and whatever brought this one without blaming Maddie or quite saying it. HE is to blame. The layout of the home is not and Maddie is not. And I know they do blame him, I'm not saying they don't but they are also looking to blame other things and people it seems to me. I do think this is normal and a part of the process for sure but the getting on TV and doing it etc. is a step beyond that by far. You are to keep it to yourself per LE. Our family leaked or came close at times. It is VERY difficult not to when it goes on for years, etc. I don't know about my other family members but I found a friend or two I trusted to keep it and let me vent and leak privately. Ideally you would not even do that but that need is THERE., holding such in is not almost HUMANLY possible, let me tell you, and it is a very big expectation to expect victim's families to do so.

I think I haven't wandered too far and have kept it pretty clear and focused on each topic. So I will stop here.

I'm pretty sure both survivors were on the bottom floor and had the dog with them.
 
I'm pretty sure both survivors were on the bottom floor and had the dog with them.
What?? No they were NOT and no they didn't. Bethany was on the bottom floor. Dylan was on the floor with Xana and Ethan. The dog was on the top floor or so it seems and nothing has indicated otherwise with Kaylee and Maddie AND it is believed was in Kaylee's former bedroom which she was not in, she was in Maddie's. On top of that it was Kaylee's dog and she was visiting. I'd say it likely she took the dog out when they got home even, etc. Kaylee had moved away and was just back to visit.

Dylan came out of her room and saw the intruder, after she thought she heard Xana crying. On that same floor.

Some initially thought both girls were on the bottom floor but it came out they were not, Dylan had moved up to the second floor. BK may not have known this IF he formerly knew where all were located. I am surmising now he MAY not have known Kaylee was visiting either and with Maddie. I'm not sold on that part, Kaylee's mom threw that wrench in with her statement. BUT I still think if he was obsessed he may have stalked, known her to be at the bar, at the food truck, with Kaylee, etc. Hard to say. Either Kaylee was a surprise or she wasn't. Dylan may well be alive just because he didn't see her or thought only Xana and Ethan were on the middle floor and figured the two in the basement would have seen nor heard anything.
 
I didn't get time this week but am going to do so quickly now. I am really disturbed by the prosecution's agreement with the defense on cameras. Not just for the usual reasons but their statement about "young witnesses" is a new one and beyond what has ever been cause for anything. It's like the Colorado judge in Morphew using the adult daughters and what they will find out as an excuse to seal the arrest affidavit.

There is NO ONE in this case who is a minor that will be testifying that I can see. I can only assume they are talking of Dylan mainly. The one the defense subpoenaed. The one who saw the perp but never called cops until hours and hours later and then ti wasn't her I don't believe. The one the defense hints at knows something that would help them/him.

Has she been wondered about or attacked online etc. with remarks (not TO her as she went silent totally and always has been), yes she has but the prosecution's treatment of her and using the grand jury to keep her from defense questioning her etc. is all making it look like there is something here we don't know or they don't want anyone to know, and of course the defense as well.

You don't seal or have no cameras DUE to a young adult witness. This is all new b.s. and isn't law as far as I know. Just as sealing has become more common, the law only allows for that with VERY specific cause (I actually looked it up a week or so ago re some other case and researched it a bit) but some judges are granting such anyhow when it does not meet the criteria whatsoever.

We have seen a lot of things change people knew nothing about like life sentencing not being life, releases that would have been unthinkable and still were and are to most of us of murderers and more, etc. And this is another thing that is starting to go on right under our noses.

I am at risk of going on a wandering path here so I will just say the prosecution doing this and agreeing with this is absolute b.s.

And they've made me wonder even more about Dylan. A LOT MORE. And I already did as most do. Add Bethany in there too. Did these roommates sleep all morning, both of them? And then when they woke up, then what? What did they do before they FINALLY called cops? Let's remember only THEY were there UNTIL they called friends to come over or whatever. AND Dylan had heard things AND SEEN Kohberger hours before.

It may well be a defense ploy but WHY did the defense want to question her and how could she possibly help BK????

See, they are just adding to it again, the prosecution, by wanting this. It has stoked my suspicion again. And it will everyone else's also.

We do NOT know that this perp did not know ANY of the people in this house for one. There is a LOT we don't know.

Anyhow, regardless, it is NO excuse on the camera thing about "young" people as witnesses. NO EXCUSE. They almost want I guess one to believe there are minors that will testify. Are there? Not to my knowledge. So they must mean the young ADULT roommates and/or their friends.

I am not always a fan but saw a show with Vinnie the other night and he said some things that I think it would fit to remind people and politicians and public servants of. These are OUR courtrooms. These are OUR public officials. They BELONG to the public. The PUBLIC pays them, owns them, etc. The courtroom does not belong to the judge., the sheriff, etc. He was on quite a spiel about it. And yes, it is Vinnie and it's TV but you know what, he is RIGHT. It's the same with Washington or any of it, they don't REPRESENT US and they don't SERVE us and that's their ROLE.

We have EVERY RIGHT to SEE these trials. And the day and age has changed where the only way to do so is to travel to the courthouse and they ARE NOT to STOP the public from doing so. The capability is there cheaply for all to see now.

Aside from that, and our desire to watch it, is it is to be OPEN and not SECRET. Government and the courts are archaic and light years behind what is going on in this world and it will all implode one day. They can't get to trial in three years and they can't pass a law in ten or more. While that goes on the world changes rapidly all around them.

I had better stop. IN danger of going further and I have a ton of sh*t to get done.

Back to the point. They have now brought attention back to Dylan. What's the big dark secret here? I wouldn't think there was one but for this behavior and protection that keeps coming about... Heck they went to a grand jury and bailed on a preliminary hearing for that very reason it seems... They are making her MORE of a center of attention and curiosity.
 
I'm pretty sure both survivors were on the bottom floor and had the dog with them.
I don’t think there’s anything that’s come out that said the dog was with them. In fact, the one court document said that one of the surviving roommates was on the second floor. Also, I think I read somewhere, but it could be speculation that the dog was locked up in Kaylee’s old bedroom.
 
I don’t think there’s anything that’s come out that said the dog was with them. In fact, the one court document said that one of the surviving roommates was on the second floor. Also, I think I read somewhere, but it could be speculation that the dog was locked up in Kaylee’s old bedroom.
That's exactly what I understand and believe to be the case. I believe the dog to be in her old bedroom and I think it has been speculated whether he shut it in there or if it was put there, kept there by Kaylee. And Dylan was most DEFINITELY on the middle floor, the same one as Xana and Ethan. If that is false, then the whole case is a lie. Not sure where the emu got that but I do know in the early days, people thought both were on the lower level as that's where originally they both had rooms but Dylan had moved upstairs a level it came out later.

Something else just occurred to me at this moment. Kaylee's dad said she woke up when I gather Maddie was being attacked. Maybe they were asleep but these girls had just recently been calling Kaylee's boyfriend with whom she was split with at the moment. I don't know what I am wondering and after a night of drinks and late night food they could have fallen quickly into a hard sleep but it just seems unlikely they'd have been in a deep one. Again I'm not really wondering for any reason, I guess I more wonder how her dad or anyone seems to know they were sleeping, what or where is the proof of that?

I do think they need to quit talking as all it does is confuse things or may even be used against justice in this case. You know that defense will grab any little thing.
 
That's exactly what I understand and believe to be the case. I believe the dog to be in her old bedroom and I think it has been speculated whether he shut it in there or if it was put there, kept there by Kaylee. And Dylan was most DEFINITELY on the middle floor, the same one as Xana and Ethan. If that is false, then the whole case is a lie. Not sure where the emu got that but I do know in the early days, people thought both were on the lower level as that's where originally they both had rooms but Dylan had moved upstairs a level it came out later.

Something else just occurred to me at this moment. Kaylee's dad said she woke up when I gather Maddie was being attacked. Maybe they were asleep but these girls had just recently been calling Kaylee's boyfriend with whom she was split with at the moment. I don't know what I am wondering and after a night of drinks and late night food they could have fallen quickly into a hard sleep but it just seems unlikely they'd have been in a deep one. Again I'm not really wondering for any reason, I guess I more wonder how her dad or anyone seems to know they were sleeping, what or where is the proof of that?

I do think they need to quit talking as all it does is confuse things or may even be used against justice in this case. You know that defense will grab any little thing.
If they were on the phone, he may have blocked the door and so they were trying to huddle together and away from him. Or Maddie was asleep and Kaylee was awake. I don’t know. We’ll find out at trial.
 
I think Kaylee’s parents need to be quiet. There’s a gag order. They’re gonna get themselves in trouble.
I agree but they argued against the gag order or their attorney did and I think it was lightened wasn't it? To not be against the families? I know the attempt was made that it should only apply to the attorneys and court personnel of course, etc.

And where was their attorney and his advice in when they talked in this recent one?

If I had more time, I'd go on too about these shows made. I could say LOT. There were so MANY on Daybell with Kay and Larry talking, the Mels talking, everyone talking, show after show after show after show. AS much publicity as there EVER could be but the defense made a thing about cameras in the courtroom which was ridiculous considering all that. He77 the Daybell children appeared at least once. Janice and Summer appeared at least once. It kind of takes away the entire argument for no coverage if you ask me. The cat is already well out of the bag. And yet the trial proceeded and jurors were found. But live coverage banned. Ludicrous really.

Such things also at their core assume jurors are stupid and/or corrupt and/or gullible. They are insulting jurors. Would the defense rather NOT have juries??? Want to do away with them?? Jurors are vetted and picked or excused for a reason. They either are believed to be unbiased or can set what they know aside or not. That's what our system is, that's how our system is. They either follow the rules during trial and don't go home and get on online coverage and chats or they do, or watch TV news on it, etc. I also truly believe there is far MORE speculation without cameras than with them where one can see what was actually said instead of speculating.

Okay I am getting on a soap box with no time I should be wasting. Over and out. Thankfully to all I'm sure. Lol.
 
If they were on the phone, he may have blocked the door and so they were trying to huddle together and away from him. Or Maddie was asleep and Kaylee was awake. I don’t know. We’ll find out at trial.
I wouldn't think they were on the phone as far as speaking to anyone, they never did reach Jack (right name isn't it?). I think it is anyone's guess whether they were asleep or awake or one was and one was not, etc. It seems to me that lady coroner said all were killed in their sleep or something like that but I don't buy that for a minute. I guess it is POSSIBLE all were asleep until the MOMENT or close to it of their attack/deaths. I don't know that we will find out at trial or ever. Even if one was found away from bed or some such and had defensive wounds it could still just mean they awoke at the time of the attack or during it.

I think I was just pointing out how could Kaylee's dad know she was asleep and awoke and then was trapped in the bed by Maddie and the walls? I am sure they speculate with a need to know and have their opinions but I agree with you,, they really need to stop. Because for one, I don't see how anyone can know this for sure, even LE. She could have been awake asleep, awakened for instants before killed, or whatever and could have tried to get out in any of these scenarios. Etc., etc., etc.
 
Kaylee's parents come across as conspiracy theory media whores.
I know what you mean but feel that's a bit harsh. You have to consider the brutal and awful loss they've had. Let me tell you when you have one you want to runt tell and get the whole world on your side but you can't or aren't supposed to. You want justice to no end and are stifled. You have nowhere to vent. You also want to blame yourself for anything you didn't do, could have done, this and that, etc. and you do that, but may lash outwardly too as they are doing. You WANT to call the news, you want the world to know what an evil POS your child's killer is, etc. I am just saying it's hard to understand unless you've experienced it, I know ALL those feelings BUT...

HOWEVER, I do get your point. And they are NOT being wise. What stopped us is always worrying if we slipped or talked we could affect justice but that doesn't stop them. I do think the systems needs serious changes and more help should be there for the families, etc. to navigate the impossible. I do agree they just don't seem to care or worry that what they say may affect the ******** way of the system and trials and rights of defendants etc.

Dylan Rounds mom was and is judged a bit the same. BUT they HAVE DEAD or MISSING children. Not a spot thankfully that most are ever in.

And the system DOES suck. It needs serious change and NO most law enforcement and courts are not gods.

But yes, they do seem to be courting disaster. They lawyer up, they talk, they keep talking. Or stop and then come back and get talking again. Personally I think they are thinking of suing big time and I honestly don't like what seems like subtle blame on Maddie and on the homeowner,, university, etc.

So don't get me wrong, I do agree but I do allow them what such grief when there is a crime of murder and not a natural death can cause.

Yes, they seem to like and want the media attention. And it is not like Dylan Rounds where they don't even have their son's body.

It's hard to understand that's for sure.
 
I wouldn't think they were on the phone as far as speaking to anyone, they never did reach Jack (right name isn't it?). I think it is anyone's guess whether they were asleep or awake or one was and one was not, etc. It seems to me that lady coroner said all were killed in their sleep or something like that but I don't buy that for a minute. I guess it is POSSIBLE all were asleep until the MOMENT or close to it of their attack/deaths. I don't know that we will find out at trial or ever. Even if one was found away from bed or some such and had defensive wounds it could still just mean they awoke at the time of the attack or during it.

I think I was just pointing out how could Kaylee's dad know she was asleep and awoke and then was trapped in the bed by Maddie and the walls? I am sure they speculate with a need to know and have their opinions but I agree with you,, they really need to stop. Because for one, I don't see how anyone can know this for sure, even LE. She could have been awake asleep, awakened for instants before killed, or whatever and could have tried to get out in any of these scenarios. Etc., etc., etc.
I didn't say they were speaking. When I am "on my phone" that could mean speaking, texting, playing a game, googling, etc.
 
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I didn't they were speaking. When I am "on my phone" that could mean speaking, texting, playing a game, googling, etc.
It would show engaged through or active right when LE does their phone records? I think the ME said they were asleep and now dad does. Not that it probably matters in the overall big picture, they were or they were not. I'm just more wondering how dad knows she was asleep and was awakened. I brought up the calls to Jack because I believe it was just prior to their deaths and shows they weren't asleep then.

Wasn't picking on you so much as saying there would be no witness on the other end of the phone that heard anything if he didn't get the call or pick up which he unfortunately did not. And questioning how dad knows she was asleep, etc.
 

  • Lewiston Tribune and Associated Press
  • 3 hrs ago
MOSCOW — A Friday hearing on Bryan Kohberger’s motion to dismiss his grand jury indictment will be held behind closed doors.

Latah County District Judge John Judge sided with Kohberger’s attorneys to hold a closed hearing in an order he filed Tuesday. The Latah County Prosecutor’s Office did not object to this motion.
 

  • Lewiston Tribune and Associated Press
  • 3 hrs ago
MOSCOW — A Friday hearing on Bryan Kohberger’s motion to dismiss his grand jury indictment will be held behind closed doors.

Latah County District Judge John Judge sided with Kohberger’s attorneys to hold a closed hearing in an order he filed Tuesday. The Latah County Prosecutor’s Office did not object to this motion.

Oh, puh-lease JUDGE John Judge :giggling: Oh yeah, that guys real. :rolleyes:
 

  • Lewiston Tribune and Associated Press
  • 3 hrs ago
MOSCOW — A Friday hearing on Bryan Kohberger’s motion to dismiss his grand jury indictment will be held behind closed doors.

Latah County District Judge John Judge sided with Kohberger’s attorneys to hold a closed hearing in an order he filed Tuesday. The Latah County Prosecutor’s Office did not object to this motion.
I guess another thing I intend to keep pointing out and disagreeing with is this NEW trend to close hearings, seal documents, do gag orders, etc. for NONE of the reasons that are supposed to exist do do so. Gag orders may be an exception but not the other stuff. And gag orders are generally placed on the parties and attorneys NOT the families, etc. as was initially done here.

Grand juries are secret so maybe there IS a reason for this closed hearing but I'm not so sure when the indictment has already been leveled and the grand jury is already known of. No legal expert so I don't know.

Regardless, they are constantly doing such in this case and it isn't right. And in other cases. This is something else being allowed to go on that just watch out, it will become the norm right before our eyes. I found really good info on it one day, the legality of it and what is required to be able to seal, etc. and almost none of these cases have a SINGLE factor it takes. I found it on my phone on a break and came home to try to find it again or share it and couldn't, and didn't remember what terms I searched or enough to find it.

And I am outraged at how the prosecution in many of the cases just goes along and agrees with the defense on it like here. Rob Wood did the same in Lior's case, agreed to no cameras, etc. Cameras are a bit different than closed hearings where NO ONE can attend but still a similar or related concept that makes things more secret or less public, etc.

Again, maybe there is a reason here since the hearing relates to the grand jury but again, I don't see HOW since the knowledge of it is now public. Maybe the jury is still seated but even then just don't use names and use numbers, etc.

So big surprise (not) I am stating my full disagreement and displeasure with this.. And my reason isn't because I want to see it, it is because it is WRONG when they do this in most cases and it should not be allowed to go on and it shouldn't get commonplace as it seems to be becoming.
 

  • Staff report
  • 3 hrs ago
The hearings scheduled today to discuss Bryan Kohberger’s grand jury indictment have been moved to Oct. 26, according to court documents.

<snip>
The rescheduled hearings will be at 10:30 a.m. and 1 p.m. Oct. 26. The first one will be behind closed doors; the second will be open to the public.
 

  • Staff report
  • 3 hrs ago
The hearings scheduled today to discuss Bryan Kohberger’s grand jury indictment have been moved to Oct. 26, according to court documents.

<snip>
The rescheduled hearings will be at 10:30 a.m. and 1 p.m. Oct. 26. The first one will be behind closed doors; the second will be open to the public.
Over a month's delay. Well now that speedy trial has been waived, I'm sure we will see the usual constant delays.

I truly think a sold reason and proof should have to be given for court delays. Seriously.
 

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