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JONBENET RAMSEY: Found dead in Boulder, Colorado on Christmas Day 1996 - Age 6
- Thread starter GrandmaBear
- Start date
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
Does it matter if it was before or after she was killed? Sit down and write a nine page note about abducting a kid and see how long it takes. If you make a mistake stop and start again.
I don't know who Arndt is. Was she the police officer on scene?
Indeed, it matters.
And it wasn't a nine page note. It was 2 and !/2 pages written on legal size paper. A total of nine pages were missing/had been torn from the tablet with 3 of the 9 having been the note. The other missing pages were never found.
What's been reported in the media as a "practice note found in the house" is a page that was still in the tablet- the 10th page, if you will- and is presumed to have been the start of the ransom note.
She's your source.
She was a BPD detective called to the home primarily to monitor/wire the phone.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Pedophiles don't write ransom notes, long ones or practice in ANY case we've ever seen to try to throw a trail off and on top of it throw shade to some group, knowing bonus amounts, etc. and so on. That's where this case falls down. Totally. Is that ALL other possible scenarios like some pedophile would have no need or even think about doing such much less practice and more. Pedophiles I think most of us would agree have one intent. That is to get the child, snatch the child, do as their mind and sick intent is and leave. Usually taking the child away, not in the HOME.
I have and will entertain other theories but for me this is Patsy. It's Patsy. It was Christmas Eve. I don't know about anyone else but I've been a stressed mother on Christmas Eve. NOT to the point Patsy probably stressed herself with her need to outwardly have perfect or even have things perfect for the next day OR need a picture perfect pageant kid is the difference or to portray a perfect life and have the perfect family, never was I or would be doing that to myself or familyy, that's the difference, but it's a stressful average time on any parent. And it is stressful on many parents is my point, in a NORMAL way. The woman lost it. And the note was written after. She did not plan to kill her. She lost it. The note was a ridiculous attempt at a cover up. However with that and a poor investigation and the other things covered and you name it, she did get away with it through her lifetime but not without most thinking it was her, or many, despite all the attempts to obscure and travels down rabbit holes through decades.
I've entertained what some think with Burke, just to look at all but I have never bought that for a minute. This was Christmas. They'd been to a party, you know that necessarly life and look and attendance, well dinner anyhow. Stress, stress, stress, kids and self and John all perfect, your own Christmas to prepare for when you get home or finish last minute things for, maybe an excited or overexcited six year old. Did JB believe in santa at six?
Burke did not entice nor carry this child into the basement. The theory of him is actually one that greatly bothes me. I can't say it is impossible they covered for something he did but I serioualy doubt it.
And then of course there never was a RANSOM call from this "serious" group. And they didn't have JB. She was in the RAMSEY basement.
When one strips all back to its core, it was Patsy or it was the family in some combination and coverup may have been more than one. It truly isn't that difficult of a case or to see the obvious when dropping all the rabbit holes, suggestions and you name it through the decades. Of course we have influence, a screwed up investigation and all that, but still stripping all away, the mother lost it. I suspect Joihn helped her cover it up. And I don't think she meant to. I really think it is that simple.
They probably would have liked to get her out of the home but the risk of that, so they staged...
I have like all of us been down every rabbit hole but then I come back to earth each and every time.
JB broke P's laslt straw that night. Or even she may haev been angry with her for something prior already. Either way, she sent her over.
When you see seeming perfection in life and a perfect outside, such is not sustainable without serious stress, no life and a misunderstanding of how it does not happen magically that you can sustain such as magazines and TV showed (this was back in the day). Children never get dirty, they are perfect, clothes always clean, you have homemade cookies every afternoon and breakfast every morning your hub is a big business exec, you are perfect mom, your child is a pageant star and so on and so on and so on.
It is an image and the Ramsey's did not have the kind of money that lets all magically take care of it all plus you know you can't let too much help in in case they see what really goes on.
Just made me think of the Murdaughs. Totally different but image as well. We are all to envy the lifestyles and image and how they achieve it. Uh huh.
Patsy did this is my conclusion or likely one as I think is known and not even after is she the type that would ever ever dare face it or be known for it. Not a big fan of John either as I think he helpeld cover and if he did not immediately he came to know, and part was worry about his image and the press, fall out and HOPEFULLY they were worried about Burke as well and what arrests of them or press would do to his life. Not that it worked did it? It worked for no arrests but it did not to ever quiet it all or not be living under the shadow of it.
As far as Arndt, what difference does it make what she said, etc. No ransom phone call came and even aside from Arndt there is no indication the Ramseys were waiting and desperaet for it and that hope that their daughter was alive.
I'm not agreeeing with emu, I'm not talking to him at the moment. Not sure if he knows that but I'm not.
This is my opinion and it is only an opinion. The ransom note was over the top as was the garote or however it is spellled. So was John's missing her the first time. So many things. And it truly is obvious when all stripped back but sn*w was going on from the beginning.
If the purpose was to taunt, that's a behavior I have seen before.
I don't know of anyone at the scene who has or would agree with that.
It wasn't John but White who said he'd opened the wine cellar door but the room was dark and he couldn't find the light switch.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I don't see something practiced over and over and then finally finished as some taunt in any way shape or form. Taunting with what? it isn't about guess where she is, guess who I am like some serial killer's notes to media or news. I't a a clear attempt to point away or to a "faction", knowledge of bonus and claim of a kidnapping and demand for ransom that had no basis and never occurred. It's no taunt it is to misdirect and point elsewhere. It isn't a "ha ha here's a clue try to catch me if you can". That's a taunt.
Not sure what you mean with your second sentence. You mean the Ramsey's friends they called over or who are you talking of?
To me, this case, when all the purposeful misdirection and purposeful corrupt or incompetent policing is stripped away, the answer realy isn't mysterioous or as interesting or deep with the rabbt holes that all such has resulted in through the years.
Jmo. Patsy did it. Everything else is show and cover up and kind of obvioius ones which is sad as it never resulted in an arrest or justice.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Yeah, I know that. And so? It's a search for a missing child and so what do you do or who do you ask if you can't find the switch? This WAS important right? A child was missing.
Just another in many things that put togeher are too much. Imo.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
Like who?
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
The Ramsey's refused to talk to the police unless they knew what the questions would be.
Burke was completely unafraid that someone would come for him after this happened.
A Grand Jury indicted them and the DA refused to charge the Ramsey's.
She was friends with them and told people she worked with that the Ramsey's would never be charged as long as she was DA.
Despite John and Patsy saying Burke was in bed when they called the police, a third voice can be heard on the phone call to 911.
I think Burke got mad at JB and took something (probably a flashlight) and hit her head. He didn't mean to kill her, but the Ramsey's would never admit that's what happened. So they invented the whole kidnapping story. If nobody found the body they would have buried her somewhere else. Like their property down south.
Burke was completely unafraid that someone would come for him after this happened.
A Grand Jury indicted them and the DA refused to charge the Ramsey's.
She was friends with them and told people she worked with that the Ramsey's would never be charged as long as she was DA.
Despite John and Patsy saying Burke was in bed when they called the police, a third voice can be heard on the phone call to 911.
I think Burke got mad at JB and took something (probably a flashlight) and hit her head. He didn't mean to kill her, but the Ramsey's would never admit that's what happened. So they invented the whole kidnapping story. If nobody found the body they would have buried her somewhere else. Like their property down south.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I don't see enough reason to think the minor child did anything. Is it possible? Sure. Parents covering up? Sure. Is there speculation that way, flashlight talk and you name it? Yes.
Did Burke have a history of and problems with JB and attack her, or with a temper? I have my lines and accusing a child I have trouble with ALTHOUGH if enough, I might, and of course I won't ever say it is impossible in a case like this or any where the three at home were dad, mom, son and murdered daughter.
For me, I've said the thousands of times I've been through it and all of us have, I always come back to family, and I come back to Patsy, not saying John didn't know at a point or een witness it for that matter. Any mother can tell you that in a normally stressed on holidays family, it is the mother who is stressed. Perfect ones are (I mean really average good ones who can cope). I don't see Patsy that way at all. Portraying an image takes a ton of effort and a lot of stress and then they find out there is no such thing as perfection. Children aren't objects. They poop, they get tired, they get sick, they misbehave, they spill.
I've looked at it the other way and have had my times throug he years where an interview with Patsy and John holding hands and her soft, calm, sometimes sad demeanor almost made me think twice but no.
I am not talking to you emu. And this is not a response to you.
The DA did NOT charge when a grand jury indicted AND that news was acttually like hidden or unknown as grand juries and their decisions are by the nature of it, secret. Did say as long as DA they'd never be charged. I call that some serious abuse of power.
This case was intentionally sn*wed from the beginning or early on. First from the familly member/s, then by LE and/or people with power over or in that they knew or their friends did and then all out ever since.
But when stripped back to the basic facts, it isn't difficult. It was one of the three. Could even be John, could even be one lost it and all three saw it and then it was family cover up. Could be any scenario tha way. Taking from that it is family though and those in the house, for me, it is Patsy. Most likely.
EVERYTHING comes from the two parents as to who went to bed when or what went on after they get home. And perhaps they got Burke to as well. I don't think Burke did it but I do think it was one of the three, and all or a couple may have covered or even one, writing the note. But the remaining two know it or in their hearts came to know it or know it today if it was Patsy alone. But did she do the garotte or find her body in the basement and carry her up? NO, that ws John.
Some people in life you can just see as you recognize them as you've seen them before in others. That may not be fair but it is an instinct. And then other things get said that confirm it. Patsy was night and day in public and private imo and this was all a "show" life which home and real life did not match up with nor did her coping skills.
I saw John and Burke on a show a few years ago and Burke is a bit different but what child wouldn't be as his entire life has been this nighrmare and attention. That also again says something about the parents. It was JB the show piece before she died, and it has remained that way after she died and he accused by so many online and you name it.
Could he have unintentionally done something and they covered? I guess. I don't think he was the stressed member of the household that night. Some other thoguhts, would it bother burke if JB didn't act perfectly? No he'd probably love it if the one with more attention didn't. Would he snap if she peed the bed or threw a tantrum? No. That would be Patsy. Could be John bu who was home alone with the kids and having to do the show and couldn't even handle daily life but Patsy?
It's Patsy. Of course that is jmo. I come back to it each and every time.
One last thing to think about, this is not a woman who raised a child through every age of life. Every bit of it was new to her.
Do you know how many people go and buy a purepred puppy and then can't believe it is not this angelic potty trained, non begging, heeling cute thing that causes no more work and then they dup them at the pound OR they learn.... Or maybe some learn and beat and control and then put them in a dog show.
Sorry but that's how I see this.
Patsy was not a coping adult mother and wife. All went into the "show" put on while things got worse and worse she could not handle.
Did Burke have a history of and problems with JB and attack her, or with a temper? I have my lines and accusing a child I have trouble with ALTHOUGH if enough, I might, and of course I won't ever say it is impossible in a case like this or any where the three at home were dad, mom, son and murdered daughter.
For me, I've said the thousands of times I've been through it and all of us have, I always come back to family, and I come back to Patsy, not saying John didn't know at a point or een witness it for that matter. Any mother can tell you that in a normally stressed on holidays family, it is the mother who is stressed. Perfect ones are (I mean really average good ones who can cope). I don't see Patsy that way at all. Portraying an image takes a ton of effort and a lot of stress and then they find out there is no such thing as perfection. Children aren't objects. They poop, they get tired, they get sick, they misbehave, they spill.
I've looked at it the other way and have had my times throug he years where an interview with Patsy and John holding hands and her soft, calm, sometimes sad demeanor almost made me think twice but no.
I am not talking to you emu. And this is not a response to you.
The DA did NOT charge when a grand jury indicted AND that news was acttually like hidden or unknown as grand juries and their decisions are by the nature of it, secret. Did say as long as DA they'd never be charged. I call that some serious abuse of power.
This case was intentionally sn*wed from the beginning or early on. First from the familly member/s, then by LE and/or people with power over or in that they knew or their friends did and then all out ever since.
But when stripped back to the basic facts, it isn't difficult. It was one of the three. Could even be John, could even be one lost it and all three saw it and then it was family cover up. Could be any scenario tha way. Taking from that it is family though and those in the house, for me, it is Patsy. Most likely.
EVERYTHING comes from the two parents as to who went to bed when or what went on after they get home. And perhaps they got Burke to as well. I don't think Burke did it but I do think it was one of the three, and all or a couple may have covered or even one, writing the note. But the remaining two know it or in their hearts came to know it or know it today if it was Patsy alone. But did she do the garotte or find her body in the basement and carry her up? NO, that ws John.
Some people in life you can just see as you recognize them as you've seen them before in others. That may not be fair but it is an instinct. And then other things get said that confirm it. Patsy was night and day in public and private imo and this was all a "show" life which home and real life did not match up with nor did her coping skills.
I saw John and Burke on a show a few years ago and Burke is a bit different but what child wouldn't be as his entire life has been this nighrmare and attention. That also again says something about the parents. It was JB the show piece before she died, and it has remained that way after she died and he accused by so many online and you name it.
Could he have unintentionally done something and they covered? I guess. I don't think he was the stressed member of the household that night. Some other thoguhts, would it bother burke if JB didn't act perfectly? No he'd probably love it if the one with more attention didn't. Would he snap if she peed the bed or threw a tantrum? No. That would be Patsy. Could be John bu who was home alone with the kids and having to do the show and couldn't even handle daily life but Patsy?
It's Patsy. Of course that is jmo. I come back to it each and every time.
One last thing to think about, this is not a woman who raised a child through every age of life. Every bit of it was new to her.
Do you know how many people go and buy a purepred puppy and then can't believe it is not this angelic potty trained, non begging, heeling cute thing that causes no more work and then they dup them at the pound OR they learn.... Or maybe some learn and beat and control and then put them in a dog show.
Sorry but that's how I see this.
Patsy was not a coping adult mother and wife. All went into the "show" put on while things got worse and worse she could not handle.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
Burke put a 
in her bed one time, IIRC.
in her bed one time, IIRC.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I doubt either child was potty trained or one the type not to poo in a behavioral problem way. That's a lot different than inentionally clocking your sister.
Plus I am not talking to you and where is the link as to that being a fact?
Possible definitely but I don't think Patsy was capable of raising a child, potty training a child nor learned wisely as most do as they go as a parent and with examples and things to fall back on or instinct. She wasn't over her own needs, wants, self interest or image, nor had a clue.
Could it have been Burke? Certainly it could have been. He wouldn't have been the first child killer although in those years it wasn't that heard of and even now not that common.
The only thing I agree with is I DO think this was one of the three and the coverup involves one, two or all of them.
Patsy is way more likely. Parents even over the top ones or stressed ones like Patsy try to control it and she lost it. Burke is a child and if he had such anger, there would be other incidents of striking, bruising, hurting, etc. Imo.
I honestly am not sure Patsy would have went all out to cover for her son through all the years either or that night. For family image maybe, which was destroyed anyhow imo, but not out of concern for him over herself. I just don't see that with this woman.
Plus I am not talking to you and where is the link as to that being a fact?
Possible definitely but I don't think Patsy was capable of raising a child, potty training a child nor learned wisely as most do as they go as a parent and with examples and things to fall back on or instinct. She wasn't over her own needs, wants, self interest or image, nor had a clue.
Could it have been Burke? Certainly it could have been. He wouldn't have been the first child killer although in those years it wasn't that heard of and even now not that common.
The only thing I agree with is I DO think this was one of the three and the coverup involves one, two or all of them.
Patsy is way more likely. Parents even over the top ones or stressed ones like Patsy try to control it and she lost it. Burke is a child and if he had such anger, there would be other incidents of striking, bruising, hurting, etc. Imo.
I honestly am not sure Patsy would have went all out to cover for her son through all the years either or that night. For family image maybe, which was destroyed anyhow imo, but not out of concern for him over herself. I just don't see that with this woman.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
And aren't you judging against the things you would say to others as to judging and forgiving?
What was he? 9? So you're doing so to a child.
Done talking to you and I'm not talking to you anyhow.
Out of here too.
What was he? 9? So you're doing so to a child.
Done talking to you and I'm not talking to you anyhow.
Out of here too.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
JonBenet Ramsey's 'disturbed' brother 'smeared her Christmas presents with poo' amid claims HE killed her
THE brother of murdered child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey smeared her Christmas presents with poo in the months leading up to her death, investigators have claimed. Sleuths investigating the death…
www.thesun.co.uk
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
A whole lot of conjecture and in the Sun ending with hitting on a "radical solution".
Patsy had one who spread poo and another who was not had bed wetting problems. Oh, don't let me not put John on the hook, he also had two children with such problems.
This was no "perfect life" as fronted.
Burke is not out of the question but we have a mom who probably wrote the note and who was highly stressed and worried about image and her children in no way conformed to that perfect picture.
Yeah the alleged third voice and the phone call and remarks are interesting. I don't exclude it but that article is beyond speculatory as is the radical solution.
Using logic, I'd surmise if Burke was that bad to JB, she'd have some fear of him and worry that if she pilfered his pineapple he may snap or poo her gifts. Unless of course boh children were starving and food was a rare thing.
I saw him on Dr. Phil as an adult, and John, and that's what I referred to earlier that he is a bit different.
Whatever happened in or by the famiily, Patsy wrote the note and adults got her downstairs and staged things. Imo.
There is something really wrong in this family to begin with. Two children with obvious issues, and not only bathroom issues.
That article is over the top. If there is any basis to it and there may be to a couple of basic true things, they should have left it at that and so should the guy nad panel doing such, but it's embroidered beyond and again a "radical solution" is the ending. But then has it been that everything and everyone in this case has not been or went down and beyond rabbit holes. I'm sure they all got their press.
It just shocks me with such problems in the home and poo on gifts (for months?) that John went to bed and left Patsy to pack and deal with all the problems in this household.
Merry Christmas.
Patsy had one who spread poo and another who was not had bed wetting problems. Oh, don't let me not put John on the hook, he also had two children with such problems.
This was no "perfect life" as fronted.
Burke is not out of the question but we have a mom who probably wrote the note and who was highly stressed and worried about image and her children in no way conformed to that perfect picture.
Yeah the alleged third voice and the phone call and remarks are interesting. I don't exclude it but that article is beyond speculatory as is the radical solution.
Using logic, I'd surmise if Burke was that bad to JB, she'd have some fear of him and worry that if she pilfered his pineapple he may snap or poo her gifts. Unless of course boh children were starving and food was a rare thing.
I saw him on Dr. Phil as an adult, and John, and that's what I referred to earlier that he is a bit different.
Whatever happened in or by the famiily, Patsy wrote the note and adults got her downstairs and staged things. Imo.
There is something really wrong in this family to begin with. Two children with obvious issues, and not only bathroom issues.
That article is over the top. If there is any basis to it and there may be to a couple of basic true things, they should have left it at that and so should the guy nad panel doing such, but it's embroidered beyond and again a "radical solution" is the ending. But then has it been that everything and everyone in this case has not been or went down and beyond rabbit holes. I'm sure they all got their press.
It just shocks me with such problems in the home and poo on gifts (for months?) that John went to bed and left Patsy to pack and deal with all the problems in this household.
Merry Christmas.
I think a pedophile's motivation behind writing a note, that is- that behavior- would be to taunt.
I'm talking of everyone else who was there besides Arndt and the Ramsey's. In other words, Arndt wasn't only referring to the Ramsey's but everyone there.
And certainly, everyone there knew full well that it wasn't clear as to whether the 8-10 am call "tomorrow" would be that day or the next.
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I don't think White was searching for JonBenet, I think he was just down there looking around for anything out of the ordinary.
You know, I don't think Officer French was either because he'd observed the cellar door but didn't open it because he decided it wasn't an exit.
Whatsnext
☮️
My opinion as well. They took their ideas from a book in the house and a movie they had watched. They were afraid that Burke would be taken away from them.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
John and White were told by Arndt to search the house from top to bottom. She did that just to give them something to do. For some reason they started at the bottom.
Interestingly, White and his wife came to believe the Ramsey's did it.
Right, but did she mean that literally? I don't think I would have taken it that way.
I think the reason they started at the basement is because "the top" was the master bedroom part of the house.
I have to clarify that I don't know whether Arndt actually said "top to bottom" but I know she did send Ramsey to look around and that White went with him and that they started in the basement.
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