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JONBENET RAMSEY: Found dead in Boulder, Colorado on Christmas Day 1996 - Age 6
- Thread starter GrandmaBear
- Start date
I took it that you were telling me what I see. Anyway...
I appreciate that you think there exists sufficient evidence to conclude that no one came or went through that window, so please appreciate my opinion that I don't think there is.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
He said there was a pic of the spider web. I looked at the article but did not see such a pic but I did so in short order but still thought I looked at all.
So I am still awaiting the pic as he claimed such but I am more in the middle there, was it not said also at some point the glass was the wrong way with the broken window or there was none? Regardless I don't think any intruder ever entered and all seems like ridiculous staging to me, nonsensical staging, a note, a garrote, a window, a suitcase and so on. To me I is someone scattered and desperate, or a couple who is even harder to get on the same page when in total disarray with a need to do what they can and not on same page necessarily, or ONE. To stage a scene in nonsensical ways or to throw so many possibilties out there to send an investigation in several directions, I.e., a faction, a bonus, a ransom, a kidnapping, a sexual assault, a garrote, an entry/broken window, a suitcase to explain how someone could do that with a basement window, a kidnapped for ransom kid that ended up being found in the home, not kidnapped but killed and staged and so on and so on and so on. Yet hardly a thing around any suggesed scenario or way in or out panned out. Kidnapper never called. No one seemed to come looking for money. No footprints or proof anyone really entered. Perp was in so many places in home yet no evidence of such perp. No one hearing a thing I and on and on.
For me, jmo, this one is way too over the top with so many gazillion things including what is NOT there to be anyone but family, people in the home.
The response and ensuing investigation sucked but still there is not one REAL thing showing anyone ever entered this home. There is a LOT put on to try to suggest someone did, done in a ridiculous nonmatching way like I said with a ransom note but then staged like some pedophile or some such, and on and on.
It WAS a screwed up investigation AND I think a lot of that has to do with who the Ramseys were and kid gloves and local PD. THis scene was NEVER secured but there were also calls for assistance and things going on with powers that be.
NO ONE in that house should have been allowed as John and friend were to go look or search, for just one example. John NEVER should have been allowed to carry her up when found.
Some like to put a ton of it down to a small local PD but that excuse is used way way too often. In sooooo many cases.
Not of course being vehement at you, just at the case.
I did not see a pic of a spider web or did I miss it?
Smit did show someone could get through he window but for me that proves nothing but I won't say someone couldn't have, there just is too much otherwise for me to show that isn't staging 101. The broken window and the suitcase I mean.
One thing is for sure. Boulder retains a black eye and has for decades and will for decades to come even for any youth who don't know of it but look at this old case.
The DA, the remarks and the failure to do as the GJ found, is inexcusable. No one should have that kind of power.
Just so much.
The family has retained a stain. If innocent, that's awful. If not, it is not enough but is some kind of justice. They helped do that to selves though imo. Imo Patsy did it, John knew at some point not too long in if wasn't even present, and a shocked total panicked scramble ensued as to what this would do to his job, their lives, to Burke, and what would ensure over such a thing showing there was not such perfection as portrayed.
In this one, for me, the writing is plain on the wall. And I come back to it every time after blowing the smoke away. The new rabbit holes year after year, decade after decade and the same ones also over and over.
Of course it was entirely screwed up from the start and will it ever be proven? Probably not. Hasn't been yet because the right things were not done at the outset or even in days after. It is proven as best as it can get for me though. The writing is there and I don't mean the note. I mean all of it.
Jmo.
BUT I've seen no evidence pic of a spider web and the date of such. Did I miss it?
No, such doesn't exist.
Well, I think the reason Smit demonstrated that is because at the time, the argument against that particular idea was that a grown man couldn't fit through that window.
My understanding is that there was very small pieces of glass and very little of it, which I think shows that the area had been cleaned-up after the window was broken.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Well he pretty much stated there is such a picture and that the case invesigation had one. That's not opinion that is put out as fact then and it's false.
I get why Smit did it to show it is possible although it doesn't prove it a likelihood to me or not appear to be the staging needed alogn with other facts.
I'd have to look back but I do recall the glass being a thing too and since you recall something about it as well, says it was something talked of.
To me it still is staging and with the window staging 101. The note is more than that. I think it could well have been one more than one, the parent that lost it (P) was doing the note and is far less grounded and was frantic and lives more in a fantasy world that never quite meets her expectations, also why she lost it. Then John helps and the moving of JB and window and such shows a bit more thought but still obvious staging.
I went through such a basement window far more than one time as a child. I NEVER ONCE went out it which would have been even harder. Never had to break I either, not once. It wasn't pleasant as a skinny not that big or old of a child. Normally when we went in (sister too but somehow I was always the one who had to) there was generally a woodpile so no drop to the floor and youth is a lot different as well in your agility. Still had to be careful as you put your foot on the nonstacked pile and didn't want to go tumbling down.
I don't really have a point other than I have a ton of reasons for my opinion. You do. All do. Hasn't been solved and who knows what is the truth. I do think though overall when stripping most away and starting at the beginning and every rabbit hole and new supposedly or this or that through decades, I land back in the same place.
In that day too every missing child case was not "sexual trafficking" now it is the jump of way too many people too often in every case out thrre. But Jon Benet wasn't really abducted nor missing, not really. Nor was she kidnapped nor with a kidnapper. These things alone are sooooo big. She was never taken out of the home/left the home, nor did any of her family. Nor did anyone enter imo.
But I am not trying to convince you, many everywhere have their own opinions on this case and their reasons for such.
But yeah, I never thought there was some evidence spider web clear photo in the investigative file or AT ALL. I've heard it but recalled no photograph that was like OH MY!
It wasn't put that way though. It was put as it is FACT there is such a photo. Even I who don't think there was an intruder did not believe that nor think for a minute that woudn't be remembered by even me or seen all over and touted all over. Lol. But as thought, it is a false statement/claim.
Well with 4 out of 5 theories wrong, that's a lot of misinterpretation.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Not sure exactly what you mean or how you mean that. I need coffee.
There are a ton of rabbit holes and chasing things that aren't really that likely in this case over decades. Certainly there are basic theories that are all possible although some more unlikely than others and little to lend to them. There are a family member of those known to be home, the nuclear family of John and Patsy and two kids. Most likely imo and the facts plus lack of other evidence supports this most. There is a stranger intruder. There is a guest, someone known, friend, extended family, handyman, nanny, housekeepr, construction guy, coworker, other known type of individual to family intruder or welcome kind of possibility. And that's really about it. it is one of those three.
Where it gets crazy is what people have done with all of that through the years. Someone dressed like Santa. I think I heard once one of John's adult sons was staying there and supposedly left but maybe not... That John and his friends or other exec wanted to do this to JB or they let him/them. All sorts of crazy stuff. Also these kind of things weren't like one off comments, people brought them up and then many more explored the thoughts.
What we don't have here is some things that are POSSIBLE in other cases as in JB did not off herself nor stage herself. So no suicide. No hint of some drug deal or involvement in such as in some cases.
Starting from the inner circle out, and the home, nothing has ever been enough to clear the people in the home. And never will be imo. There just isn't enough at all imo either to support an intruder theory. There's absolutely no evidence there was one and there is as total lack of things there should be IF there was one.
Granted, imo, it was ensured there will never be quite enough to charge the one/s responsible in the home either both from cover ups but also from help of others who "won't charge" them so long as that person in power.
Power. Wow. Ransom. Wow. They are a big deal. Wow. Important. Wow. Image. Yeah. Bonus big. Uh huh. So important a faction was after them. What really bothers me at its core in this case is the total baloney that all shows and how obvious I think it all is when one clears or avoids all the rabbit holes and smoke.
That being said, I wouldn't want someone charged or convicted with NO reason but a GJ found enough reason and that's up to a jury.
Anyhow I only really see the three basic possibilities although they can go in different directions. A stranger could be a pedophile, someone who doesn't know them but hates them and is jealous, all sorts of things. Someone known to them also can be from a housekeeper to a partner at work to a pedophile they knew or did not know of working for them to a neighbor.
There just simply isn't anything placing anyone else in that home.
Lol, I can relate!
What I meant was one of us is obviously wrong about how we're interpreting info and yes, it's either you or me or Cousin Dupree. (Notice how that rhymes? Perhaps I should write a poem or a song about it, lol!)
Well, I'm not aware of even a shred of evidence in support of an indictment, much less charges.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
OMG I've now chuckled out loud twice in a minute for the first time in forever.
Yeah in this case all are wrong and all are right as there isn't an answer yet and likely never will be.
You are a poet and did not know it, a phrase or similar my dad used lol. Miss him so much. I pronounce it in my head as Cousin "du-pray" so to me it doesn' rhyme lol.
\
If this was JT cuz should be reported and get a time out for a falsehood put out as fact but it is a nice place and no one gets time outs here as all are adults. I certainly have never reported anyone even though he puts out falsehoods and messes with the posts of others. He is just a problem bird imo lol.
I don't know Regina as to what evidence or what it was based on that a GJ indicted or recommended indictment but I DO have a HUGE problem with what a panel and a number of citizens found and recommended and a DA first not telling about it and second when found out refusing and saying as long as DA the Ramseys would never be charged and that abuse of power and entitlement or whatever.
Power and people who think they are gods or so ultra important. I was going to say the other day that I wonder if Patsy is with JB. I figured I might get I trouble for it though, only the special bird can break all rules lol, jk. She may be in a far different place but of course I don't KNOW that she did this and I'm not the judge. I ask if all is forgiven no matter the act or not... I don't know and I certainly don't preach or lecture to others about it like some.
I strongly feel this was mom. When I say that, I simultaneously feel awful about it. But when one ends up even if she didn't do it in a boat a child is dead, and in this case in their own home, I would expect to be questioned, and no holds barred would I not give everything I could. People talk about being wise and cops being after you even if innocent wise to lawyer up but I don't know, it depends on what you believe in and if I had a dead child, I honestly don't think I'd care or think about any of that as nothing else would matter any more.
You are right, one of us is wrong of the three lol. I enjoy the discussion with you even though I don't agree. We do in some others, somewhat. And I just had my third out loud chuckle today in like he last ten minutes. Much needed and appreciated. Been too long.
Lol! Well my ode has to rhyme, so you need to change your pronunciation, lol!
Did I say that? What exactly did I say? Lol!
What I meant to convey is that two out of three are wrong, which to me is absurd.
Indeed, I don't expect we'll ever agree, I've just tried to understand where and how we disagree.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
Lol. I'm not changing my pronunciation as du-pray is more reminiscent of depraved.
We do agree on occasion, in some cases. Not often, but occasionally. It is fairly rare so when it happens it is noteworthy lol!
HE77 three out of three could be wrong. Or even all three correct. There was an intruder and mom and son and dad and so on.
Lord knows every such scenario is out there and every rabbit hole.
I mean while the kidnapper or mom was busy writing a note another intruder could have come in...
Nothing funny about it but just an attempt at some lightness
We do agree on occasion, in some cases. Not often, but occasionally. It is fairly rare so when it happens it is noteworthy lol!
HE77 three out of three could be wrong. Or even all three correct. There was an intruder and mom and son and dad and so on.
Lord knows every such scenario is out there and every rabbit hole.
I mean while the kidnapper or mom was busy writing a note another intruder could have come in...
Nothing funny about it but just an attempt at some lightness
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
You certainly are not alone, there are many who do. And I don't exclude the possibility either. It isn't where I lean but there are no answers or sure things in this case. I will say this, I don't like the whole pageant thing or the pressure or perfectionism that goes along, I am believer in letting kids be kids. And I don't mean someone couldn't have a child that is so talented like the next Mozart at an early age that maybe if you can it is something you should explore but I don't look at pageants that way and even with something like the previous, that is still a child and don't let the child make the decisions, they are but a child, but don't either box them in or restrict them and make them. I don't know, I just don't like it.
I think little of pageants and like many of us raised on the glamor of Miss America and so on and watching but finding out so much more about what really goes on and the image and on and on, I don't need to go into I don't think.
I could get into Lori Vallow but don't need to go down that road of what such can become...
Would Patsy have bought JB fake boobs if she had none as she got older? I mean come on. Lori's dad did.
But back to where I am guessing your point is, it certainly could attract creeps no doubt. A pedophile no doubt. A stalker, follower of this little girl no doubt. Even a competitor or some such no doubt.
I don't fall into that as my main theory for a lot of other reasons but I sure don't dismiss it. I don't dismiss any that aren't way out there like the "faction" in the ransom note. That I find very far fetched.
I think it is still discussed and every hole has been explored and opinions formed that are plausible because they haven't solved it and there's been no justice and so too all are possible, plausible ones always have been.
I will also say this, little girls love to dress up in mommy's heels, use her makeup and put on some earrings and that's cute as heck and going to guess most of us did. Or as princesses and so on. That's a whole lot different though than putting a child on a stage with the creeps that are out there nowadays and were then who can't understand this isn't some child that is looking for THAT sick kind of attention. I don't like it. Never have. And it isn't new. One can look at Hollywood stars and stalkers they have who either believe a role they played or latch on for some sick reason.
I HATE that a sane ADULT even (not child with no choice) can't live her life and do her roles and be who she is without attracting some sick POS's. A woman can't go out dressed nice and not be "asking" for it and all that kind of thing too.
So yes I definitely believe it possible here. For me it is the other facts that lead me away from it. But who knows. There have been one offs many a time, not like this note necessarily or her being in the home but that is because it too could be a one off, unusual, was an outsider, pedophile, pageant follower and this is what happened or what was improvised when his plan didn't work out.
I sure don't know.
I do think maybe all would have been a lot better without any pressure all the way around. No pageants, no need for perfection or staying up with the Joneses, for the kids and mom and so on. Far less stress if it was Patsy, far less exposure if it was a pageant following ped and so on.
Jmo.
I've never thought much about it.
The only time I've given any real thought to that idea is when I was wondering what use would there be for the kind of tape that covered JonBenet's mouth.
You know, that tape was rather unusual and the color- black- was also unusual and so I wondered whether it was the same kind (I know it's the same color) used by stage-hands.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
You do lean towards an intruder pedophile though don't you? Or do I have that wrong?
What was unusual about the tape or color? I don't recall that so am curious.
Looking4you
Active member
I don’t think Patsy had anything to do with it…or her husband or son, for that matter. And, as a southern lady myself, I highly doubt she was discussing $$ with anyone. You just don’t talk about stuff like that…you don’t ask people what something they’ve purchased cost, and you don’t flaunt your wealth. If there was discussion by others, and they asked you pointedly about a bonus or something, a simple “it’s been a good year. We are very blesssed.” That is sufficient. I know people today wear their money like a badge, but this was 25+ years ago. The south used to be all about etiquette. Now, well, it’s just a different world.
I think maybe people formed negative impressions of patsy because she did seemingly have this “perfect life” that they would’ve liked to have had. But, also that she was very focused on physical beauty, spending a fortune on pageant clothing, hair, makeup, etc.. And, most of those pageants seem to encourage having these little girls “all done up” like a grown woman! Which, for all the pervs out there into little girls, would just be wonderful to them.
So, many people probably blamed her for this happening to her daughter. Hey, she paid to be her sexualized, basically, so no matter who killed her, it was Patsy’s fault. That’s my guess as to the thinking of those who talk so much smack about her.
I think way too much focus was put on the family, and probably they will never solve it at this point. Extremely sad.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
This is quite a pause moment and interesting take and I can see everything you are saying. Entirely. And great points.
However, there's a lot more to looking at family and Patsy in particular than what you are saying.
Yes the whole southern, genteel, old money, don't wear your money on your sleeve sure. And fictional novels and so forth. I'm sorry but in the 90s? And there weren't any that liked to or may be nouveaux rich and not old money acting? Plus they were not in the south but in Colorado in Boulder, and I'd dare say Aspen and some other places yes such applies and you get all types Holllywood and other rich and what southern rules apply where he was working and they were living? She was also a second wife married to an older man and status seemed to matter to her greatly. Maybe she was even a misfit where they were.
But with me that isn't it. She isn't blamed by me at least for the reasons you cite. I do lean hard towards her though. I also don't follow the part of she wouldn't be talking the amount of the bonus with anyone as anyone who believes she did it knows her putting on the southern thing would not, but as the letter writer, would know the amount and think it a great thing to put in there to show someone was really after their family and knew some stuff. Or was a housekeeper or someone stalking and inside but not her or whatever.
You know children can be raised in some genteel, fake acting, monied family and each generation it does not mean they get it or carry it on. The one generation can spoil the next and they never grow up and are in different times that make it undoable or realistic and don't get how their parents did it and all should just come magically and children shouldn't poop either or ever get their clothes dirty.
I am just saying it is Patsy and I'd also say behind closed doors even back decades further than we are talking, does that genteel way mean nothing was going on behind closed doors to portray that perfect way to the world outside?
Of course no one is ever going to be able to prove any theory they espouse. it will never happen as it's been ensured imo.
And this case has gone too long, too far and been too messed up.
I certainly can follow your line of thinking and again it gave me pause to stop and think but this is not the deep south and it is not Patsy's parents. And all such stuff is surface image. Which is exactly what life she was doing in Boulder. Maybe no you don't talk the actual dollar amount, that is actually more damning as who else would know it....?
Anyhow, all in good debate as this case imo will never be solved and all not just here all over the world have their opinions. If it is ever claimed to be solved, one side or a third side or fourth side, etc. aren't going to buy it at this point.
This little girl was found dead in their own home. Doesn't make them guilty of course. But unusual and add in the note and all the other oddities....
Again all in good debate. I look forward to your thoughts if any of these points hit. Because yours did and gave me pause.
Thank you for your insights and being a voice for JonBenet. Since I’ve left this case many times and returned to ponder the facts again, it is still my unpleasant conclusion that her death was not pre-planned and occurred with only a total of 4 people in the home. While I lean more towards her mother (I’ve studied the case details for over a decade, but also recognize it could be either the sibling or father), I’ve never been more saddened in realizing that no matter who struck her, that person did not call for help for her. It’s the abandonment of love in the face of fear – fear of punishment, fear of loss of reputation, or fear of what JonBenét might tell authorities if she had regained consciousness, and was able to speak.
GrandmaBear
Deputized Emu Slayer/Horse Thief Hunter
I think most of us who were alive, old enough, and/or followed crime have followed this one off and on and throughout and looked at all for decades on end now. And people after as well.
So you think a family member?
I do as well quite honestly and have been through all of it, thought of all of it, looked at all of it countless times. Over many years.
I don't lean towards dad or son, I lean to mom BUT I allow the possibility. I also allow the possibility BOTH parents at least were aware and involved in the aftermath and PERHAPS son but if he did not do, then my guess is he was not told either, or knows, hard to say. However kids pick up on a lot even if not involved...
I truly think anything else is a pretty far fetched odds of likelihood like an intruder. I doubt it was planned, the death, but more likely a stressed out, overloaded, life, day, week and snapping where one struck, punched, lost it or whatever or beat or something on that order. And I can't help it I just see that with Patsy more than any other but any are possible.
We will likely never know except for our own thoughts or leanings in it.
it has been almost 30 years now. She'd be in her mid 30s.
Cousin Dupree
Glory to #Ukraine 🇺🇦✊🏻
Police chief responds to new JonBenét Ramsey Netflix documentary
Six-year-old JonBenét Ramsey was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her family’s home in 1996.
7news.com.au
Netflix docuseries sparks renewed focus on JonBenét Ramsey case as police pledge ongoing dedication to justice
A week after the premiere of a Netflix docuseries on the unsolved death of JonBenét Ramsey, police maintained their dedication to finding the little girl’s killer but refused to say whether they have any promising leads at this time.“It’s obvious that the Boulder Police Department wants to solve this case and the only reason is to bring justice to the victim,” a spokeswoman for the Boulder, Colorado, police department said in an email Monday.
Cold Case: Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey, a three-part Netflix documentary, has renewed interest in the death of the young beauty pageant queen whose 1996 killing mesmerised the public, prompting relentless cable news coverage and making headlines around the world.
The Boulder police spokeswoman declined to answer questions from NBC News about tips authorities were investigating in the case and instead referred to a video statement from last week from Boulder Police Chief Steve Redfearn in which he said he and everyone else who has worked on JonBenét’s case “would love nothing more than to bring justice to her memory”.
“There are a number of things that people have pointed to throughout the years that could have been done better, and we acknowledge that is true,” Redfearn said in the video released by the Boulder police department on X last Tuesday.
“However, it is important to emphasise that while we cannot go back to that horrible day in 1996, our goal is to find JonBenét Ramsey’s killer. Our commitment to that has never wavered.”