JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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Police seem to be no closer to finding 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow and 17-year-old Tylee Ryan than they were when this story began months ago.

Since that time, the story has gained international attention as it’s taken twists and turns involving a purported cult, dead spouses, delusions of divinity and preparing for the end of the world. Despite all the angles, and the ever-growing number of people related to the case, the facts remain essentially the same as when it was first announced.

The two children remain missing and the parents, Lori (Vallow) Daybell, and her new husband, Chad Daybell, refuse to disclose their whereabouts to police. Both have been named persons of interest in the disappearance of the children. Law enforcement is also investigating the deaths of the Daybells’ previous respective spouses, Charles Vallow and Tammy Daybell, though neither Chad nor Lori have been named suspects in those cases.

Written timeline of events
  • April 3, 2018 - Tylee Ryan's father, Joseph Ryan, dies. Death ruled heart attack.
  • December 2018 - Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow make first appearance on Preparing a People podcast.
  • February 2019 - Charles Vallow files for divorce from Lori, claiming she viewed herself as a god preparing for the second coming, and she would kill him if he got in her way.
  • February - April 2019 - Lori disappears for nearly two months, leaving her children with others.
  • June 2019 - Lori's niece demands a divorce from her husband, who says she shares similar beliefs to her aunt.
  • July 11, 2019 - Charles Vallow shot and killed by Lori's brother Alex Cox. Shooting initially ruled self-defense.
  • August 2019 - Lori moves to Rexburg, Idaho with kids
  • September 3, 2019 - Joshua "JJ" Vallow enrolled in school
  • September 23, 2019 - JJ last attended school
  • September 24, 2019 - Lori unenrolls JJ from school, saying she would be homeschooling him.
  • September 2019 - Tylee also seen in September, but it's unclear when and where (she had graduated early)
  • October 2, 2019 - Lori's niece's ex-husband was shot at, missing his head by inches. Shooter was driving a vehicle registered to Charles Vallow.
  • October 9, 2019 - Tammy Daybell, Chad's wife, called 911 and said a masked man shot at her with a paintball gun.
  • October 19, 2019 - Tammy Daybell dies, death is ruled natural
  • October 25, 2019 - Tylee, or someone using her phone, texts a friend
  • Late October / Early November 2019 - Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow get married
  • November 26, 2019 - Welfare check requested for JJ at the request of extended family - police are told he is in Arizona with family, but he is not
  • November 27, 2019 - Police return to serve a search warrant, finding the Daybell's gone
  • December 12, 2019 - Lori's brother, who had shot her ex-husband, dies mysteriously in Arizona
  • December 20, 2019 - Search for JJ and Tylee goes public
  • December 30, 2019 - LE says Lori knows where her children are but will not cooperate
  • January 25, 2020 - Chad & Lori are located in Hawaii, served with a notice that she must produce the children within 5 days
  • January 30, 2020 - Lori fails to produce JJ and Tylee

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Yeah, I think he was only married twice. Once when he was really young and then the second time to Zulema. But it seems like I read that he would bring Colombian women back with him once in a while? Or maybe he just stayed with them down in Columbia. It was some weird thing he was involved in.
it was Colombia wasn't it? There was one he spent some time with while there, like going on some dating thing, he paid to go and she met him, etc. and she talked and shared the story. They were never married though. And yes he had the short marriage where the ex talked about how Lori and Alex were almost sexual with each other and how it didn't sit with her and she talked about the weird behavior in his family too. And then the marriage to Zulema. Those are the only two. Marriages. Neither of which imo were normal or stereotypical.

You know I've come over a bit to feeling for Summer and think she has had some eye opening things but there are a lot of reports and thinks about the Cox family that are hard to forget or let go. About the dad for one and the really weird open sexual talk at the dinner table and a lot more. Now I'd ignore that as people having tidbits and sensational sh*t but there's been a lot of it from cousins and various sources that aren't seeming to be interested in having some spotlight on them and their info.

Adam and Summer I try to see it and are not going to go down that lane and I do believe they've gotten some clarity and this is mom and dad and sister, etc. but there is a LOT out there about this family that comes from extended family even.

Sorry but I do think Summer stepped up and did what she had to do and there is no way she was not upset when those kids were found on Lori's man's property. I think there is a naivete or was maybe and Adam well, him too, he will make a point of he isn't all LDS all of the time or going to temple every day but he hasn't left it, nor has Rex. I'm not saying it is LDS that did this but there are real reasons this kind of sh*t happens in that faith. I am not trying to be non PC but its' obvious.

The whole thing was founded on someone believing visions of a teenager. And all claim that want to be important to have visions. And author. And lead. And now podcast. And prep. And the end times. And they dictate what jobs they can hold, track their members and are over involved in their lives. The whole thing is a cult, I'm sorry.

I am well old enough to recall sh*t from back when and the polygamy and anti government and it did not change, it just went underground and in some ways got smarter and adapted.

You know, it is mankind's interpretation of what a cult is but maybe every religion is. I don't think so necessarily and I believe in God and I know YOU do. But I was questioning things even in Sunday School at the age of five. And as I got older my thought was God gave me this brain and believe me I was blessed with a good one although I didn't use it in life the way I should have and it is duller now, but I always said as I grew, matured and learned that he gave me this brain that questions. And mankind is mankind. There were pastors I believed and pastors I did not as to their interpretation. We've all seen top leading people at any of our churches that are total hypocrites. And the bible itself has a ton of versions and each that any one person can interpret different ways and that has been down for centuries.

There was a church I wanted to join once that had the BEST real interpretation of all imo and services and a friend of mine I went to and was just blocks from my home I raised my kids in and I had been to for Christmas services and a Sunday service or two but immediately the pastor wanted a commitment of time and to only going there, my kids only going there, etc. and uhm NO. First of all I had NO time, not that I wouldn't have liked to but I was already holding two jobs and trying to raise two kids on my own with no help. I loved their services and the overall feeling but don't ask for that or insist on that. They also had their own form of girl scouts, etc. And this was LUTHERAN. I am sidetracking and really don't have a point but I just have come to my own beliefs through the years and none of us can entirely know and I do believe in God, I believe in an ever after and I believe there is something so much bigger than us. We are not to talk of religion so excuse me but the whole science thing I can debunk in minutes if someone wants to go there. And the God thing too I get is beyond logic or comprehension but there are things in this life that just show there has to be some reason or purpose. Damned if I understand it and boy do I question and even rail with like our murdered baby.

And if there is no life after then I guess when we die we are just dead and there never was any point to all this trial and tribulation and hard times and good times we all go through and that is incomprehensible to me. The beginning is what has stymied me from a young age and not a person in almost 60 years I have talked to gets what I mean. I drove my Sunday School teacher nuts with it in that simply put, where did God come from. Who created God. Well let's take that to the sonic boom or any other theory, where did those elements come from that created such a. Nothing can exist before it existed and if it did, that had to have an origin. Even nothingness could never have existed without someone creating nothingness. If ANYONE gets what I mean please tell me, I have never in my life had anyone totally get this. I have to let it go and have many a time because it is like the chicken and the egg but far worse.

And I am sidetracking and of course a single short day off in two weeks and getting nothing done. Totally sidetracking.

Anyhow back to this, first off as they all say and Lindsey said too as Rachel did they could have gone down no end of rabbit holes as to the religious stuff BUT they in talking it was a means to an end for Chad and Lori.

Sorry, thought I was talking of her interview as I finished it and she was a lot more unreserved than I expected and came here to share my take it then was catching up with your posts and doing some things in between and of course now I am totally off track.

I came in with all sorts of thoughts on that interview and came in to remark on that actually. Man it was good, yet again. Lindsey shared more than I thought she would but I should separate posts ut won't get time.

Alex was excommunicated more than once wasn't he... And they are taught such extreme things of what they can and can't do. And of course they are special, they are the 144. And then take I am not even sure if their parents were church going totally abiding people of it but it still was invasive in their lives. There are accounts of how Lori's dad considered them above others and so on. Many.
But this started, I am sorry with the Colombia thing, and then there is Alex traveling to other countries to have sex and even things about minors. Of course sex is restricted outside of marriage but seems like it didn't stop Chad and Lori, because he came up with they were married in a past life... The way Mel G and her went at each other about sex outside of marriage also I would say tells of David and Mel G as well...

I have no idea where I am going other than I came in to give pretty straightfoward commentary on Lindsey Blake's interview with Nate and here I have wandered.

She did say I guess is how this started me if they had taken the religion thing, the rabbit holes may have never ended and they needed to present this to a jury and I've went down just now a bit of such a rabbit hole.

I don't know my point but I think all said is relevant to it all even if I wandered all over.

To get back to her interview, she was going to be the one to cross Lori and Chad IF either took the sand in either trial. She also explained how small her county's DA office is and man, come from a small one but that's not much staff or DA's and how Rocky Wixom came in and just hit the ground running and Ingrid Batey while she had to be in Boise. Very small staff and many other cases. And see it through to the end because she contacted Nate to add something after the interview.

There is SOOOOOOOO much to this case we don't know and they had to pick and choose on what to use. And all of them and her now even more so have given the hint of how hard and daunting of a task this entire thing and these cases were.

AND I am getting nothing done and anyone reading this long shi*t will be happy to know that's it. I've distressed I guess talking other sh*t from another week from HE77 and this is my down kind of time/stuff after a work week.

Anyhow this case keeps on giving doesn't it...

And Alex was not getting pot and autism drugs in Mexico or Central America. Imo. And not imo in the opinion of any of the prosecutors or people on the case either...

Yeah,I've wandered all over the place here.

I had a point with the religious thing and one of them is GOD gave you a brain that you can question even the things said or touted by mankind in religion with... Or the hypocrites.
 
Listened to it all. So judge allowed a camera for this hearing, a good sign I'd say and I mean a media camera. I don't think it means all hearings and trial. Lori waived appearance and was let go though. This clip did not have the actual hearing in it, so that's probably out there by now. Justin made a good speech although I'm not sure the judge's decision was based on any of it, he seems to disagree with the defense position and interpretation of some law and such on it and says coverage does not make finding a jury insurmountable. It was also requested that Lori be allowed to wear street clothes in the future and that was not decided on that I heard or even acknowledged yet at that point (the request).

Her attorneys are there to request a continuance which she continues to oppose but she waived her presence for it.

That's most of what I got out of it although who the woman was who was on camera probably in her own home or house was weird, did the judge unknowingly let a viewer be seen...? She was yawning and ducking around probably thinking she was staying off camera or some such. Or was it a court employee? I have no idea. Anyone have any idea? it shouldn't have been shown imo. Also the showing of who was joining the room by Webex or Zoom continually interfering was irritating but I guess one could still hear and it isn't like it was trial, ,just the defense talking and then Justin giving his argument.
 
Reading further right after posting the last one, I see you do see he went right before he died. This is pretty well known and I don't think most think it was simply for cheap prescription known drugs.

Also I'd dare say almost no one believes Alex died of natural causes, not even all the prosecutors and certainly not of Covid either, that would be natural causes. Every single one of them answered this question in Nate's videos. ALL were respectful of the medical examiner who did the review and final one when questions and I don't think they doubt the ability or think anything shady was going on, what they are saying without saying it imo is there was something that can't be found or can't be put together that caused this and that's why Rachel Smith said she'd like to have been able to investigate what he bought in Mexico.... SOME drug or SOMETHING that thorough looks don't find or couldn't put together.

I think Alex and Lori had a joint account for reasons besides that. Why would Lori get the sedatives from Mexico? I will guarantee you all his meds were fully paid for here. The got all benefits and money to boot for JJ. And if the answer to that is Lori used too many so coudn't get another prescription as she was sedating him all the time, there's plenty she could have found or used here to do so, wouldn't have to be his prescribed ones...

Alex wasn't down there for JJ's drugs nor POT. Imo. Again not picking, it was far more than that why he made these trips imo or this trip.

As far as the bank account, he was their hit man. Probably coded as something else or not coded at all but putting money in like to buy black clothing for when he shot at Tammy, reimburse for his hotel room, etc.

They weren't doing this stuff for normal reasons or JJ's prescribed meds. IMO.
So why do you think he was doing these trips ?

Was it for underage sex?
 
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So why do you think he was doing these trips ?

Was it for underage sex?
Well I've actually been wondering and trying to recall how they knew he made a trip to Mexico just a day prior (wasn't it, or a couple) for sure. OR that it was for drugs. I am pretty sure Rachel Smith said a drug buying trip and she said it was something she wishes they could have explored more as to what he bought and was talking of all the rabbit holes they could have went down but had to curtail the case somehow to the important parts and things they needed to focus on and they couldn't overwhelm the jury either with all of everything, all the texts, etc. Or go chasing things like that. It was a good watch, nothing new and earth shattering but a good talk of all they had to do and all they had and did not use and various things. If you haven't watched it, I recommend it. I think she said more than Rob, Ray or Lindsey although all of those were good too. Lindsey was a bit more forthcoming than I thought she'd be but still there were things she wouldn't say or couldn't I guess. All were good. All I think believe Alex did not die of natural causes.

So it seems to me it may have come from Zulema? When they were all interviewed at various times, was that in Gilbert, I mix the two up at times. Because we've known this fact for a long time and I'm thinking it came from the document dump. It could have come from activity on Alex's passport but then they still wouldn't know it was a trip for drugs.

I don't know if he went there for sex as well. He was now married to Zulema but was it a normal marriage, who knows with this bunch. Alex had sex issues much like Lori if you ask me, meaning it got him into trouble with the church and more and so yeah, I'd think he'd have a normal relationship with Zulema IF she was willing and she was his cup of tea but perhaps any cup would do,
I had the impression it was a day trip and AZ borders Mexico but I guess he still could have hired a hooker. However, it is said, pretty positive, it was a drug trip.

My thoughts run along the lines of what I think Rachel may have been not saying but hinting at, he bought something to either kill himself OR for Lori and Chad to use in their murders and they used it on him and it just wasn't something found at autopsy or something that is not tested for....?

I guess there IS also a possibility he bought what would be prescription drugs there that would maybe not be prescription there and for less $$$ for either himself who may well have not been insured or the kinds of drugs none of them could get prescriptions for perhaps and could there somehow purchase them. Or MORE of them than they could get here. There's also the possibility they were illicit drugs like coke, heroine, etc. but I think probably not. It seemed as if this wasn't the first such type trip.

I really don't know but I don't think Lori was probably having him fill JJ's authentic prescriptions and amounts allowed, I just don't see the need. I would THINK he'd be covered being a child with a disability and once Charles was gone Lori also had no job or income so those kids at least would qualify for free coverage imo. Lori HERSELF may not have though... You know it can't help but bring thoughts of Joe and Tammy either... Many thought the pink foam with Tammy was poison although it has been determined to be asphyxia was her cause. Joe was ruled natural causes something heart related but there are odd things there too and Lori was certainly there the minute he died when it came to possessions and money and more.

Many have speculated about malachite. it can be found in Mexico and the U.S. in smaller quantities than the Congo, Russia and Zambia... Remember their rings were malachite so they knew of malachite... And Mexico is actually listed as a place it can be found when you look it up... They were trying to think they were smart and hiding what they were doing with all their extra phones, doing murders in different states, etc. imo. I never heard of malachite before this case...

I would like to recall or find how they knew he made this trip. If it came from Zulema, I'd not necessarily buy it back at that point in time BUT maybe it came from her and they confirmed it somehow with passport or she showed them some of what he brought back...? I don't think all though as Rachel Smith would have liked to explore more about that trip and the purchases.

I found her to be very down to earth and likable. Considering the career she has had and her qualifications, that's nice to see. I think Lindsey Blake is one TOP NOTCH DA but I'd say she's a bit more driven acting although she showed a very personable side when talking to Nate. I'm sure Rachel is totally on her job and she consults on a number of others but I just found her very down to earth in the interview and not so much the attorney in the courtroom. As I've said, out of all of them, she probably said the most but again ALL were well worth watching.

Anyhow end of the long two weeks that had only one day off until now I reach my two. So of course I have a LONG post as I start to try to transition to the idea I don't have to go to work tomorrow. Thank God.

They've actually downed hours and are on some money saving kick or some such, don't ask me, but now we have gotten very busy all of a sudden, heck it was the week before the 4th, what were they thinking and they are UNDERSTAFFED and I went in the last couple of days to all managers stressed and about in a panic because we were busy and they took now have to cover for less of us while also doing their jobs. I like the store itself, the other employees including managers, and the customers a LOT but management of some things lately not so sure about... Our GM that all liked transferred to a newly opening store maybe six months ago and we got a new one. He's nice enough to talk to but his decisions aren't often I don't think what most would agree with. This store has run its own way and just fine and is one of their top ten year after year in sales, maybe he should think about that.... But I don't know. No one tells ya anything, well it leaks here and there a bit and I could probably seek out more info but I stay out of it all and just do my job...

I also think it may be only our area OT has been cut and hours are downed and if that's the case, I have a real problem with that. Enough of that anyhow, off topic.

Like I said, just unwinding and feeling I can breathe for a moment although I always know two days will be over in what seems like ten seconds. It always is.

So with all that said about Alex, what do you think or recall? Re the trip, where that came from, what you think with what Rachel said and I said, etc.?
 
Well I've actually been wondering and trying to recall how they knew he made a trip to Mexico just a day prior (wasn't it, or a couple) for sure. OR that it was for drugs. I am pretty sure Rachel Smith said a drug buying trip and she said it was something she wishes they could have explored more as to what he bought and was talking of all the rabbit holes they could have went down but had to curtail the case somehow to the important parts and things they needed to focus on and they couldn't overwhelm the jury either with all of everything, all the texts, etc. Or go chasing things like that. It was a good watch, nothing new and earth shattering but a good talk of all they had to do and all they had and did not use and various things. If you haven't watched it, I recommend it. I think she said more than Rob, Ray or Lindsey although all of those were good too. Lindsey was a bit more forthcoming than I thought she'd be but still there were things she wouldn't say or couldn't I guess. All were good. All I think believe Alex did not die of natural causes.

So it seems to me it may have come from Zulema? When they were all interviewed at various times, was that in Gilbert, I mix the two up at times. Because we've known this fact for a long time and I'm thinking it came from the document dump. It could have come from activity on Alex's passport but then they still wouldn't know it was a trip for drugs.

I don't know if he went there for sex as well. He was now married to Zulema but was it a normal marriage, who knows with this bunch. Alex had sex issues much like Lori if you ask me, meaning it got him into trouble with the church and more and so yeah, I'd think he'd have a normal relationship with Zulema IF she was willing and she was his cup of tea but perhaps any cup would do,
I had the impression it was a day trip and AZ borders Mexico but I guess he still could have hired a hooker. However, it is said, pretty positive, it was a drug trip.

My thoughts run along the lines of what I think Rachel may have been not saying but hinting at, he bought something to either kill himself OR for Lori and Chad to use in their murders and they used it on him and it just wasn't something found at autopsy or something that is not tested for....?

I guess there IS also a possibility he bought what would be prescription drugs there that would maybe not be prescription there and for less $$$ for either himself who may well have not been insured or the kinds of drugs none of them could get prescriptions for perhaps and could there somehow purchase them. Or MORE of them than they could get here. There's also the possibility they were illicit drugs like coke, heroine, etc. but I think probably not. It seemed as if this wasn't the first such type trip.

I really don't know but I don't think Lori was probably having him fill JJ's authentic prescriptions and amounts allowed, I just don't see the need. I would THINK he'd be covered being a child with a disability and once Charles was gone Lori also had no job or income so those kids at least would qualify for free coverage imo. Lori HERSELF may not have though... You know it can't help but bring thoughts of Joe and Tammy either... Many thought the pink foam with Tammy was poison although it has been determined to be asphyxia was her cause. Joe was ruled natural causes something heart related but there are odd things there too and Lori was certainly there the minute he died when it came to possessions and money and more.

Many have speculated about malachite. it can be found in Mexico and the U.S. in smaller quantities than the Congo, Russia and Zambia... Remember their rings were malachite so they knew of malachite... And Mexico is actually listed as a place it can be found when you look it up... They were trying to think they were smart and hiding what they were doing with all their extra phones, doing murders in different states, etc. imo. I never heard of malachite before this case...

I would like to recall or find how they knew he made this trip. If it came from Zulema, I'd not necessarily buy it back at that point in time BUT maybe it came from her and they confirmed it somehow with passport or she showed them some of what he brought back...? I don't think all though as Rachel Smith would have liked to explore more about that trip and the purchases.

I found her to be very down to earth and likable. Considering the career she has had and her qualifications, that's nice to see. I think Lindsey Blake is one TOP NOTCH DA but I'd say she's a bit more driven acting although she showed a very personable side when talking to Nate. I'm sure Rachel is totally on her job and she consults on a number of others but I just found her very down to earth in the interview and not so much the attorney in the courtroom. As I've said, out of all of them, she probably said the most but again ALL were well worth watching.

Anyhow end of the long two weeks that had only one day off until now I reach my two. So of course I have a LONG post as I start to try to transition to the idea I don't have to go to work tomorrow. Thank God.

They've actually downed hours and are on some money saving kick or some such, don't ask me, but now we have gotten very busy all of a sudden, heck it was the week before the 4th, what were they thinking and they are UNDERSTAFFED and I went in the last couple of days to all managers stressed and about in a panic because we were busy and they took now have to cover for less of us while also doing their jobs. I like the store itself, the other employees including managers, and the customers a LOT but management of some things lately not so sure about... Our GM that all liked transferred to a newly opening store maybe six months ago and we got a new one. He's nice enough to talk to but his decisions aren't often I don't think what most would agree with. This store has run its own way and just fine and is one of their top ten year after year in sales, maybe he should think about that.... But I don't know. No one tells ya anything, well it leaks here and there a bit and I could probably seek out more info but I stay out of it all and just do my job...

I also think it may be only our area OT has been cut and hours are downed and if that's the case, I have a real problem with that. Enough of that anyhow, off topic.

Like I said, just unwinding and feeling I can breathe for a moment although I always know two days will be over in what seems like ten seconds. It always is.

So with all that said about Alex, what do you think or recall? Re the trip, where that came from, what you think with what Rachel said and I said, etc.?
Ok, well I am just thinking that they had only just married right, first of all, at Thanksgiving so I bet it is likely he went straight on the trip to Mexico or wherever he went, for whatever drugs or stuff he was going for. Maybe even Z went too, for a honeymoon? Then he was dead within less than two weeks of his marriage and had already told Z about the money in the shoebox in the wardrobe right? So did he kill himself? I have always wondered, especially as it happened the day after learning about Tammy's exhumation. Also, the fact that Z's son didn't even know they were married.

Whatever we think, it sure was weird.
 
Ok, well I am just thinking that they had only just married right, first of all, at Thanksgiving so I bet it is likely he went straight on the trip to Mexico or wherever he went, for whatever drugs or stuff he was going for. Maybe even Z went too, for a honeymoon? Then he was dead within less than two weeks of his marriage and had already told Z about the money in the shoebox in the wardrobe right? So did he kill himself? I have always wondered, especially as it happened the day after learning about Tammy's exhumation. Also, the fact that Z's son didn't even know they were married.

Whatever we think, it sure was weird.
I don't recall any impression she went with him but that he had recently went and I mean like just the day before or some such close to that.

All have immunity apparently and her at least we know does and imo that likely means there is a lot known we don't know or have not heard...

That whole thing of his death was weird, and I read or heard more than one account, etc. Her SON did not even KNOW they were married, she was working and he was home... Oh I just now saw you said that too about the son. Clearly I'm tired and not picking up everything.

His killing himself is one possibility and even Rachel said that I think I recall correctly. He received a blessing from the GREAT CHADDY BOY remember... If Alex DID kill himself, my opinion is Chad and Lori told him this was part of the plan and he'd come back immediately as someone else to carry on his mission and do even greater things or some such imo. I think there are things we may NEVER know. I remember doubting Zulema entirely back when with it all... I felt it likely SHE gave him whatever at the direction of Chad and Lori or some such... The woman lawyered up almost immediately, same day wasn't it? Of his death?

As far as Mexico, I had the impression a trip for drugs wasn't an unusual thing for him to do/make... Not sure where I got it but just know when I think something in a case I have followed there was usually a basis for it even if I can't recall why...

The other thought I have is that they told Alex he failed and had to go but I don't think so as the blessing said otherwise.

Personally I've always thought they gave him something OR had Z do it but I guess they could have convinced him to do it himself or that it would do something else for him than what he expected--assuming it was some drug that wasn't found on autopsy... Or combo of drugs...

Anyhow Rachel would have liked to pursue his trip, what he bought, etc. Probably they all would have liked to and many other things as well...And for me and most of us who will never believe he died of natural causes, the fact each and every one of THEM seem to feel he did not either is significant as they know the case inside and out... None diss the medical examiner but all seem to think something just was missed or can't be found... To me, that is likely some type of poison or something that can "bring on" the natural causes in someone that already has health issues....?
 
I gather Lori's attorney won the day and trial is NOW PUSHED OUT TO FEBRUARY. Most expected such. She though wanted speedy trial so unsure how they can deny her that right. Haven't watched this yet.

 
State does not object to continuance and acknowledges the amount of discovery and recent addition of defense counsel and the time they would need to go through it, etc.
 
Having a complex case management conference in September, I'd call it a status thing. Etc.

Trial continued to February 24.

So we don't have to think we are going to be seeing this one any time soon and February is doubtful as well. Imo.

There was some motion to seal some objection by the defense and it was granted...
 
I haven't watched anything of Annie's in some time and they are never short and I'm not finished but a couple of things already. She thinks Mel Gibb'\s recording of Chad and Lori was her "get out of jail free" card. I personally have always felt Mel G is bad news and a big part. Most think Mel P of course, but many don't see it in Mel G. I always have. Jmo.

One point she makes is how a whole LE bunch went to see her and not a short trip but during the entire thing, only 20 minutes of their time with her was recorded. And there's more of course. I don't have time to finish nor even comment on what I've seen this far.

Then she is covering Colby's wedding and his recent assertion Tylee was at his wedding and what SHE was told (Annie). It actually is one of her shorter ones, they are never brief, and I will finish it as generally worth but I can't right now. She talks like I type at times and I'll admit such. Lengthy. Sometimes a bit wandering and then circular. Imo. Not that bad I guess (as what I do) but her stuff is always long and analytical and more. Always worth watching though I'd say. I've watched back when 4+ hours long ones and struggled to stay awake but I've never regretted watching.

This one is SHORT. For Annie. Not that I'm going to get through it all this morning.

 
Well there's still issues here amongst victims I guess. She touches a lot on whether true that Tylee was at Colby's wedding and what she was told versus Colby and Kelsey's recent claims she was there but just late. Then a question is asked about how she felt about Summer monetizing or making money with the Crime Con thing or some such. Now I go back and forth on Summer but she had a good point or two. Summer was to be Tylee's advocate at Lori's trial and she chose not to speak. in the victim portion. Then someone asked her if Aunt Vickie ever apologized for criticizing Annie's victim witness statement and a lot more with all of these things. She said uh NO.

You know, I don't know what to think but clearly not ALL the victim's family members are on the same page or at least not some. I like Annie and if I'm honest, I haven't always bellieved Colby nor am have I every single moment been on the Larry and Kay train either. I mean when one wants to talk publicity in this case or if such had destroyed a jury pool, some were out there on TV all of the time and more and in documentaries and you name it. HOWEVER, I'm sure it isn't easy for anyone and this certainly was quite the thing and murders and "cult" and you name it and a nightmare for all the families I'm sure.

When asked about Summer she also made a remark about people who could have stopped this possibly and who have made off of it and I have to wonder who she is talking of. Larry and Kay? Adam and Rex? Etc.?

I've been back and forth on most of them and Summer for sure.

I'm not taking an opinion here yet so far and likely won't but I've seen sides to many of them that I wouldn't call their best look or behavior but then Annie too has her own take and is herself doing videos on it all etc.

Curious I guess as to the take of others on all the people, family members and so on.

As I said I won't get to finish this before work but am still listening while starting to get ready.

I'm not judging but almost every single one comes from a fairly messed up family background at least from what we've "heard" or "learned".

I hate to see this but understandable too. Most too are an Aunt Vickie fan, but she is not it seems. She remarks about Summer being able to clear things up at Crime Con and Nate not asking her the hard questions but giving her a chance to add anything.

I don't know...

As for anyone who could have stopped this and didn't, I have a bit of a problem there with her. I mean she was Joe's sister, Tylee's aunt and I think MOST victim's family members guilt themselves but is she or does she guilt herself at all? I think she may have in the past, just been awhile since I watched one of hers.

I've picked up on things with Colby through the years so I get it. And we all know how Summer and Janice were. Colby had Lori as a mom and that alone excuses a few things for me but also he had her as a mom and example..

Joe and Annie came from a pretty messed up background.

I'm not knocking her or anyone, I like her. I think she's as upfront as can be as to how she sees things or seems like it. And if I'm honest, I've seen things in some of the others that I've not liked at times.

But you know it can be put out as processing and trying to help understand what is more than most families will ever deal with, but all of some of the named are doing shows and making money, getting attention to do it in the future if not making money and so on.

I don't know.

she also said about Crime Con that Summer or whoever could figure that very possibly the trial might be in conflict with that. We know Nate had to leave mid trial or whatever.

Annie is who she is and says it like she sees it I guess and that I do like.

and there are reasons with some of the others to not always just jump on their ship.

You know this case was so convoluted and huge and I don't think a ONE of us watched either entire trial and some of us not even much of it. Chad and Lori's I mean. However, Summer's pone call with Lori I was certain that was real heartbreak. That's when I changed a bit about her. Doesn't mean though that I am entirely there or will ever forget her and her mom imo lying for Lori and it can be claimed otherwise as Summer did with Nate not long ago,that mom (grandma) just couldn't have told you what dates, etc. she last talked with JJ and so on.

They're all victims in a way but they also many of them were family members of the perps. I don't see a single family here that had perfection of a background, etc. None of us do imo although some would claim so but there are some really messed up things here, IF we can believe all that has come out about the Coxes, Annie admits herself to her and Joe's background, being separated, fostered, that he wasn't perfect. Colby was raised by Lori. And so on. Kay and Larry well, I'll leave it alone other than to say they had JJ and let him go and his parents could not raise him. Just saying there's not perfection here or a perfect family with about any of them. Tammy's family I'd say seems the most solid however, their sister was with a man who controlled her and had her convinced of very strange things and whose children just perjured selves in court imo AND whose dad killed their mom and who left her for a botoxed anorexic fake blonde basically.

Wandering post and no point really other than thinking it out some and I'm not judging, but am saying it's been such a case and when one day it all dies down and is old and they are in prison, there's much to look at and let sink in.

I am also going to say about the LDS thing again that even if not a cult or all bad, it's the ripest for this sh*t and it seems to go on all the time. I believe MORE than that but will leave that alone.

It's just kind of sad that the families are NOT all on the same page and all are NOT what some of them would have us think. Imo.

Again I don't know where I am going or my point. I just think the is going to tell some things maybe. And if I could have I would have watched both trials completely.

Summer and Colby (I could have it wrong) left after testifying and I don't think gave a victim statement in Lori's trial. I know Summer didn't and I am pretty sure Colby didn't. Remember how Boyce wouldn't even recognize Kay or Larry as those that could per ID law? Summer and Colby could have though. So for as much as they came in and had to testify neither was going to go against their sister and mom, Lori, imo, any more than they had agreed to do or had to do.

It's family I get it. But so were JJ and Tylee.

Again, no point, not even sure where I am going, nowhere, just kind of talking some thoughts after the years we have followed this and still so much with it that it's been hard to ever just settle and think about things after both trials and so forth as to the what's and whys and more and what even happened in both trials.

And as it always is, the victims, in this case children, never end up the focus, the defendants do.

Okay, I guess I was way overdue for some long wandering thing, sorry. I've not watched even a half of her video but it just got me thinking.
 
I don't even know what to think on some things any longer.

It i still interesting. She didn't like that Nate didn't ask Summer if she was ever to Rexburg like between September and November. Okay, that's something I've never wondered but I guess, yeah, did family know where she was and so on, did THEY ever visit.

Then, and I am paraphrasing, she says she used to think JJ was killed in Alex's apartment but David's whole "dream" thing, and being a big boy and grown man but Melanie trying to get Chad for a blessing, etc. is basically b.s. and that they heard or saw the murder, etc. Again I am paraphrasing big time, she did not say exactly this. Now I MYSELF have always leaned that way that that story is far from the total truth.

I ALSO as most know a month or two back talked of Chad taking JJ upstairs and coming down with scratches on his neck and that has ALWAYS stood out to me. Some didn't recall it but it was found and was said, etc. That HAS always bothered me and left me thinking Chad killed him then or disabled, taped, whatever or who knows, to end up scratched, etc.And they are all there at that point AND awake and so on.

Early on in this video, as I said she thinks Mel G got a get out of jail free card for recording the call with Chad and Lori. She never calls it a deal, plea deal, etc. and in fact says there is no "deal" like that that would be formal.

But why would Mel and perhaps even David, need a get out of jail free card.... I mean she did perjure first claiming to have had JJ if I recall but we all know that's far from a big charge and almost never seen to end up with much for consequences sadly.

I've always thought it is way too hard to buy they were up there on the weekend JJ was murdered and knew nothing of it, took no part, witnessed nothing when Mel G was a PART of EVERY bit of these dumb beliefs, podcasts, new Chad BEFORE Lori, etc. I have just never bought it and I've never bought hear. And while not as sure, I don't buy David's innocence either. OR let's just say lack of knowledge, attendance or some such...

I tend to not believe in much coincidence with crime and they both were up there that very weekend. A bad dream. Is David a baby and never had a bad dream before? Or vision or whatever the hell they want to make it out to be? That they're trying to reach Chad and Lori in the middle of the night?

Anyhow going to quickly be out of time but continuing listening to Annie.

And it stays interesting.

Not sure I agree with all but a lot of food for thought re Summer, Colby, Aunt Vickie more. I don't want to judge anyone hurt by what Chad and Lori did but there's definitely differing opinions and not all are on the same page/friendly I'd say... Who and what to believe I don't know but JJ and Tylee and Tammy are the foremost victims and Lori and Chad the perps although I'm not convinced there were no others present and likely never will be.

Mel G was also talked to and around when Charles died, not saying she was in the phone but I think she was well aware of the plan, etc.

Gotta get moving. It's just stirring thoughts and having had some time for once to think on them and some I've always had...
 
Tuesday 7th - morning update.

LIVE UPDATES FROM THE CHAD DAYBELL TRIAL​

CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE TRIAL LIVE
Please excuse the typos. These are live updates from the courtroom.

11:54 a.m. Blake says Prior has not followed the rules on admitting the exhibit. Boyce is ready to rule. He says to admit the entire exhibit would be premature, and he denies the admission. We are now breaking for lunch. Be back at 1 p.m.

11:52 a.m. Prior moves to admit the entire interview that is over 3 hours long. Prior says he plans to call Zulema back during his defense. Blake objects to admitting the evidence as a cumulative waste of time. She says there have to be inconsistencies in the testimony versus the police interview, and there haven’t been any shown.

11:51 a.m. Prior plays a clip and asks her to identify the people in the video. She is there along with her attorney, Garrett Smith, Det. Hermosillo and someone she believes is an FBI agent – Ricky Wright.

11:49 a.m. Prior says the exhibit is from a police interview with Zulema from Oct. 2, 2020. The interview is over three hours long. Prior will play a clip for Zulema to identify.

11:46 a.m. Prior asks to admit a recording. Prosecutors ask to approach. Boyce says there is an issue that needs to be discussed outside the presence of the jury. The jurors are dismissed for lunch while the matter is argued.

11:41 a.m. Prior asks about demons being cast out of bodies. He asks if she ever discussed the topic of killing anyone. She says no. She says Chad and Lori taught that if the casting was successful, the demon would be cast out, and the body could die.

11:40 a.m. Zulema would practice in her mind how to predict the weather. Prior asks if she was ever successful at predicting the weather. She pauses and says, “I don’t believe so.”

11:38 a.m. Prior asks Zulema if she believes she has any special gift. She says no. Prior asks if she believes she can predict the weather. She says no. Prior asks if she ever believed in the past she could predict the weather. Zulema says yes. Chad and Lori told her she could predict the weather. Chad told her to practice how to predict the weather.

11:36 a.m. Prior asks if, in the LDS faith, blessings are unusual. Zulema says they are not. Prior asks about light and dark and if anyone can determine who is light and dark. Chad told Zulema he had access to his portal and was getting information from the spirit world about light and dark.

11:33 a.m. Prior asks about the weekend Chad stayed at Lori’s house and they played basketball together outside. Prior asks how many people were staying at Lori’s house. Zulema says 4-5. Prior asks if there was any romantic interest between Chad and Lori at the time. Zulema said there didn’t appear to be. Lori was being flirtatious with Chad while playing basketball, Zulema says, and Lori said, “Are you scared of me?” Zulema understood it to mean that Lori was asking if Chad was scared of being alone with her.

11:32 a.m. Prior asks about the St. George meeting where Chad was speaking and selling books. Prior asks if Lori was pursuing Chad. Zulema says she was very flirtatious toward him and she was the aggressor.

11:30 a.m. Prior asks Zulema if she has been granted immunity by cooperating with the police. She says that is true. He asks how many times she has spoken to the police. Zulema says she has spoken to law enforcement several times.

11:29 a.m. Prior asks Zulema about her ability to judge people’s character. “I believe that I have been an overly trusting people,” Zulema responds.

11:27 a.m. Prior asks about Zulema’s professional skills and experiences. She has worked as an insurance company manager, an instructional assistant, and she currently works for vocational rehabilitation. Prior asks Zulema if she considers herself to be an educated person. Zulema says yes.

11:26 a.m. Chad talked about his near-death experiences and after his near-death experience, he no longer had a veil and could see into the spirit world.

11:24 a.m. Zulema recalls meeting Chad at a Preparing a People conference in Mesa when she bought some of his books. These were classes on preparing for emergencies and preparing for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

11:21 a.m. Zulema met Melanie Gibb when she moved near her home in 2017 and they attended the same LDS ward. Gibb invited Zulema to a meeting at her house in Sept. 2018. Zulema met Lori at this meeting for the first time. The purpose of the meeting was for Lori to share her testimony. Lori shared that she had visitations from angels and the angel Moroni. Lori also said she was a personal witness of Jesus Christ and had a physical meeting with Jesus.

11:19 a.m. Prior asks if Melanie Gibb ever contributed to the Seven Gatherers. Zulema says it is possible but she doesn’t recall. Prior asks Zulema if she remembers anyone sending emails in the Seven Gatherers. Zulema says there were a few. Zulema says it wasn’t a club – it was an email address that was shared among the group.

11:18 a.m. Zulema says Seven Gatherers was an email address that was formed by lady in the group – maybe Christina. A few ladies emailed back and forth but there was never a formal meeting or discussion about the group. An email address and password were shared in the group.

11:16 a.m. They shared information and articles with each other via email. Prior asks if the group was very familiar with the words Seven Gatherers. Zulema says yes. Melanie Gibb and Melani Pawlowski previously testified that they did not know what Seven Gatherers was.

11:14 a.m. Prior begins by asking about the Seven Gatherers. Nicole, Christina, Serena, Melanie Gibb, Melani Pawlowski, Lori and Zulema were the members. They would gather to share information and in Zoom meetings to do castings.

11:13 a.m. Blake has no further questions. Prior will now cross-examine.

11:12 a.m. Chad told Zulema that she had been on the earth when Jesus Christ came to the Americas and she had been killed with Lori in a very violent way – she had been raped, killed and her body was dismembered.

11:10 a.m. Zulema says Alex’s demeanor changed quite a bit after the call. He’s normally joking and laughing. After the call, he was very quiet, somber, kept to himself and started saying things to Zulema that didn’t make sense. “I think I’m going to be their fall guy,” Zulema said. Zulema asked what that meant. Alex wouldn’t say anything. Zulema was getting frustrated with Alex. She walked back and forth to talk with him. “I think I’m being their fall guy,” he said. “Zulema, either I am a man of God or I am not.”

11:08 a.m. The night before Alex died, Chad and Lori called him to say Tammy’s body was getting exhumed. It seemed strange to Zumela that the body was getting exhumed and that Lori and Chad were telling Alex this news. Zulema asked Alex, “If they exhume her body, are you going to be tied to anything that happened to Tammy?” Alex said no.

11:07 a.m. The Saturday before Alex died, he said he was going to Mexico for the day. He left in the morning and was fine but came back sick that night. As Zulema speaks, many jurors are taking notes.

11:06 a.m. When Alex visited for Thanksgiving, he read the patriarchal blessing Chad had given him to Zulema. As Alex read it, he cried “because he really believed what was in there.” Alex died on Dec. 12, 2019.

11:06 a.m. Zulema learned Tylee and JJ were missing from Melanie Gibb. Zulema talked to Alex about it but he didn’t say anything. The last information Zulema had from Lori was JJ was with Kay. Zulema wondered why Kay would be asking for a welfare check if she’s the one who had JJ. Alex just said, “Yeah, huh.”

11:05 a.m. Zulema says Chad and Alex became very close over time. Alex believed what Chad told him and would do what Chad asked “especially because he would tell him what to do through a blessing and it was Jesus Christ telling him what to do.”

11:03 a.m. Alex relied on Lori and Chad “for everything,” Zulema says. Alex and Lori were very close. Chad told Alex the only reason he had come to earth at this time was to be Lori’s protector. Alex took that to heart and believed he was there to protect his sister.

11:02 a.m. Zulema often turned to Chad for spiritual answers. Alex went to spend Thanksgiving at Zulema’s house in Arizona. He told her that he had seen Chad and Lori before he went to Arizona but they stopped returning his texts and calls. Alex was very upset. He said, “Can you believe they are being such jerks after I helped them? Now they don’t even want to talk to me.”

11:01 a.m. Chad had a pendulum in his back pocket. Zulema asked a question and Chad pulled it out and said, “We could ask.” Zulema said, “No, thank you.” She had never seen the pendulum before.

11 a.m. On the way back from Hawaii, Chad and Lori had a layover in Gilbert. They were staying at a hotel and asked Zulema to pick them up and take them to the airport. Zulema asked where JJ was. Lori said she had given JJ to Kay Woodcock. Chad and Lori were acting like newlyweds – “they couldn’t keep their hands from each other.” Neither of them appeared sad – they were very happy and giggly.

10:57 a.m. Zulema and Alex began officially dating on Oct. 31, 2019. They got engaged at Alex’s apartment in Rexburg on Nov. 7. Alex gave Zulema a diamond ring – size 5. Alex and Zulema didn’t know where Chad and Lori were but while they were visiting, they received photos of Chad and Lori getting married on the beach in Hawaii.

10:56 a.m. Zulema was at home in Arizona when Gibb called and said Tammy died. Lori said the day after Tammy’s funeral, Chad was going to move into Lori’s apartment. From the beginning, Chad and Lori talked about the need of them being together to start their missions to build Zion and gather 144,000.

10:54 a.m. Zulema spoke to Alex that day about her new car. They did not discuss the casting and Alex did not talk about what he had done that night. Zulema learned from Melanie Gibb about Tammy’s death. Lori told Zulema that Chad and Lori had received new information from angels that taught them how to do a successful casting to finally cast out a demon. Lori said that’s what happened to Tammy.

10:53 a.m. Zulema says she learned much later that someone had attempted to shoot Tammy that night. The night of the casting, Zulema says Lori was on the phone and was very irate and upset. Zulema says Lori was calling the person on the phone, “moron, idiot, stupid” and was so mad. After she hung up, Lori said, “Idiot can’t do anything by himself.”

10:51 a.m. This was the same day of the paintball gun incident in Tammy’s driveway. Zulema, Lori and Melani Pawlowski gathered at Melani’s house for a casting. Lori said they had never information on how to do castings and this time the cosmos would be involved. It was just Zulema and Lori in this casting.

10:50 a.m. Blake asks Zulema if she ever heard anyone talk about The Book of Life. Chad said he had access to The Book of Life so he could read someone’s life, past, present and future. Chad never showed the book to Zulema. Zulema recalls hearing that Tammy had been possessed by demons and had become a zombie. Zulema participated on a casting on Tammy on Oct. 9, 2019.

10:48 a.m. The next page shows the names James and Elaina – meaning Chad and Lori. Seven children are listed underneath their names. Melani Pawlowski, JJ Vallow are listed under the names of James and Elaina. Zulema saw these documents, for the first time, on paper and the ratings were on Chad’s computer.

10:46 a.m. Many people in Lori’s family were rated as dark. All of Chad’s children were rated as light, Zulema says. JJ and Tylee were deemed zombies and possessed.

10:44 a.m. Blake moves to admit some exhibits. The first one we see shows two pages. There are handwritten names on the side. The names of Chad’s children are written on the paper. On the other side of the page, there are names of the Cox family with ratings. Zulema says Chad provided all of the ratings.

10:41 a.m. Zulema expressed her concerns to Lori and she responded, “Don’t worry about it. Melly (meaning Melani P.) had enough money for all of us.” Zulema later asked Melani about this and she had no idea Lori had said this.

10:40 a.m. We are back in the courtroom. Zulema continues her testimony by saying she did not want to move to Rexburg. She had no family, ties, jobs, etc. but Chad pushed for her to move.

10:10 a.m. Zulema did not want to move to Rexburg. She was not dating Alex at the time but they were getting to know each other. Chad gave Alex a blessing and started the same way – that Jesus was next to him and telling Chad what to say. Alex started sobbing when Chad told him all his sins were forgiven. Morning break time. Back in 20-30 minutes.

10:08 a.m. During the trip, Zulema observed Chad and Lori being very romantic with each other. Zulema went to Mesa Falls with Alex, Lori and Chad. Alex was driving, and Zulema was in the front. Chad and Lori were in the back seat hugging and kissing. Chad gave Zulema a blessing during her visit. He said, “Jesus Christ is standing right next to me, and he’s saying this to you: ‘All of your sins are forgiven.’ And he’s telling you it’s time for you to leave Babylon and move to Rexburg.”

10:07 a.m. Zulema says Lori got rid of the service dog. After Melanie Gibb visited Rexburg, she and Zulema got together. Gibb said she learned during her trip to Rexburg that JJ had become a zombie.

10:06 a.m. Before Lori moved to Rexburg, she had told Zulema a few times that Tylee had been possessed by a dark spirit named Hillary. Lori got that information from Chad. Lori told Zulema that JJ was being attacked in the middle of the night by dark spirits, and they couldn’t get him, so the spirits would enter JJ’s service dog.

10:05 a.m. Zulema visited Rexburg in September 2019. She stayed in Alex’s apartment and visited Lori’s. Zulema never saw Tylee. Lori said Tylee “had to be freed,” and when Zulema asked for an explanation, Lori put her hand against Zulema’s face and said, “Don’t ask.” Lori never provided any information about where Tylee was. JJ was there.

10:01 a.m. Lori moved to Rexburg with Tylee, JJ and Alex at the end of August 2019. Zulema asked Lori what she was going to do in Rexburg. Lori said she would live off the $6,000/month Social Security benefits. Lori told Zulema that if anything ever happened to Charles, he had a $1 million policy and Lori was the beneficiary. Lori was very upset that Charles changed the beneficiary before he died, and Lori was not getting the $1 million.

10 a.m. Right after Charles was killed, Chad and Alex were acting like really close friends. Zulema recalls hearing about zombie at Firebirds and the term kept coming up. Alex believed there were zombies and told Zulema if he ever turned into a zombie “just shoot me in the face.”

9:55 a.m. During the same meeting, Chad said JJ was going to die young – probably soon – and he was going to come right back to earth as Colby Ryan’s son. Chad gave Zulema a blessing. He said he was telling her what Jesus Christ wanted him to say and that Zulema needed to move to Rexburg. Chad said Zulema was going to get married soon. Zulema had zero ties to Rexburg. Chad also gave Alex a blessing. Alex told Zulema that Chad said he also needed to move to Rexburg and Alex was going to be one of the warriors who was going to fight invasions from other countries. Rexburg was going to be a place of safety, and Alex was going to play a key role in being one of the defenders of the area. Zulema says Alex bought into it 100% “so much that Chad was leaving the following day to go back to Rexburg and right then Alex booked a flight to go to Rexburg with Chad so he could see the sites.”

9:53 a.m. Chad said his and Lori’s mission in this life was to build Zion and gather the 144,000. Lori and Chad said they were the leaders of the group. Blake asks Zulema about the Church of the Firstborn. Chad said he was the head of the church, and he was the one who would gather people who belonged to the church.

9:52 a.m. Chad said Tammy was going to die early, and he had a portal in his house where he would get communication and instruction from the spirit world. He got information through the portal that Tammy was going to die soon. Lori told Zulema that Chad created a portal for her in her closet and this is where they communicated with each other.

9:51 a.m. Zulema asked Chad why he and Lori were together like that when Chad was still married to Tammy. Chad said he and Lori had been married to each other seven times before in other lives, and they had been exalted together in other worlds. They were to be together in this life because they had a mission together, and their spouses would understand because of the mission they needed to complete. Lori said it didn’t count for them.

9:49 a.m. Zulema asked Alex if he was going OK. He said, “Yeah, why?” Zulema said, “Because you just shot someone.” Alex responded, “Zulema – he was a zombie!” Alex 100% believed what Chad was telling him, Zulema says. Zulema saw Chad in August 2019 when he came to visit Lori’s house. Lori and Chad were physically romantic, holding hands, she sat on his lap, they hugged and touched each other like girlfriend and boyfriend. Zulema had never seen them that physical before.

9:47 a.m. Lori told Zulema that Charles had come over to take JJ to school. Charles had left his phone in the house, and Lori started looking through it. Lori said Charles came back inside and demanded his phone. Lori didn’t want to give it to him so they started fighting. Alex and Tylee were both there. Tylee walked into the room with a bat telling Charles to leave. Charles took the bat away and hit Alex on the back of the head with the bat. Alex took his gun out and shot Charles.

9:45 a.m. Zulema says the teachings of Chad and Lori evolved. Zulema says the castings on Hiplos were never successful. The day after Charles died, Lori asked Zulema to come to her and that’s when Lori told Zulema that Charles was dead. Lori seemed quiet and somber, Zulema says. Alex seemed normal.

9:43 a.m. Blake shows another page from Zulema’s journal. It is the order in which castings were performed – cast out, burn, dispel, banish, expel, purge, evict. The next page shows the order of the priesthood – dispel, encapsulated, cast out, burn out, escorted, sealed.

9:40 a.m. It seemed weird that Lori moved with Charles to Texas after all the problems and fighting they had – and the fact Charles was possessed. Blake asks Zulema about the Seven Gathers. This was a group of women who got together to do castings. The Seven Gathers were Christina, Nicole, Serena, Melanie Gibb, Melani Pawlowski, Lori and Zulema. Most of the time the group would turn to Lori for answers, who got her information from Chad.

9:37 a.m. Chad and Lori said Alex’s spiritual status had changed so he was now able to come to the casting. Lori gave assignments to the group, and Alex was always the warrior. Zulema says after the second casting, Lori called Chad, and Chad said it had been successful. Later on, the group found out that another dark spirit had entered Charles’ body. This dark spirit was a high dark spirit – an experienced demon who had done this before to others. This demon was called Hiplos.

9:35 a.m. Lori called Chad after the casting, and Chad said it was a success – the casting had worked. Later on, Chad said Ned had been cast out, but another dark spirit took over Charles’ body. This evil spirit was named Garrett. Another casting was held with the same people, but Alex also joined in.

9:31 a.m. Zulema said Lori once mentioned she and Charles were having financial issues, but there weren’t any other problems that Lori spoke about. In March 2019, Zulema had Gibb, Christina, Nicole, Serena and Lori come over for a casting of Charles. Lori explained that everyone needed to hold hands, and she gave everyone a different part to say. They then casted the evil spirit out of Charles. Charles was not physically present. Zulema says throughout the entire casting, Lori was in communication with Chad, and Chad was giving instructions.

9:30 a.m. The first time Lori talked about someone being possessed by a dark spirit or demon was during their lunch at Firebirds. Zulema had never heard about dark spirits coming into bodies. Lori said that’s what happened to Charles Vallow, her then-husband, and Charles was now possessed by a dark spirit named Ned. Lori got this information from Chad.

9:25 a.m. The next page from Zulema’s journal shows 24 people on the earth who were part of a council. The name Serena is on the diagram. Chad said Serena was no longer light and was moving toward the dark side. She was a very dark high priestess, according to Chad. Blake asks what caused Serena to move to the dark list. Zulema says Chad didn’t give any reason – it was a mystery to her. Zulema later found out that Serena had questioned Chad about his teaching of not needing repentance. Because she questioned him, Chad deemed her dark.

9:24 a.m. Because Zulema had already been exalted in another world, Chad told her she was on this earth now to help and assist the work of God. Chad said there was no need for repentance if you had already been exalted in another world. Lori used to say all the time, “It doesn’t count for me,” and “It doesn’t count for you either,” Zulema says. Lori would hit something and say, “Doesn’t count for me.” Zulema says all this information came from Chad.

9:22 a.m. Blake asks what Chad taught about exaltation. Zulema says after you experience a probationary time, you become a righteous person who is spiritually minded. You then become exalted and have a place in the celestial realm. Zulema says it’s taught in her church that people can become exalted, but the way Chad was teaching was different. He taught that if you came in another world, you became exalted so you already had your place in the celestial world.

9:21 a.m. The next part of the receipt shows Lori drew Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. After that, there was council of 12, council of 48, etc. All of this was being given to Lori by Chad, Zulema says.

9:19 a.m. Lori wrote on the receipt the numbers of people on the earth who were 2s, 3s, etc. There were billions of 2s, billions of 3, only 1,200 people were 4.1 light, 7,000 4.2, only 700 4.3, and only one person who is a 6 light and a 6 dark. Equal number on light and dark.

9:17 a.m. Lori drew the diagram on the restaurant receipt. Zulema kept the receipt. Blake shows the receipt on the screen. It displays eternal rounds at the top, the five worlds where one could come, and the bottom of the receipt shows Chad rating people on whether they are light or dark.

9:15 a.m. The lunch was at Firebirds. They had lunch again at the same restaurant Feb./March 2019. Chad was not there. During the lunch, Lori made a diagram similar to the one Zulema had written down. Lori went through the creations and worlds and ratings of people.

9:13 a.m. Chad told Zulema she was going through the vibration process. The next page of the journal shows one of the circles of the entire creation – all the times a person comes to one of the worlds. It shows how a person moves up in a spiritual descent – 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. The left hand side shows what happens to a person if they become dark. Zulema was rated 4.2 – according to Chad. Chad discerned light and dark.

9:10 a.m. The exhibit is entries from a journal Zulema kept in 2019. The first page we see on the screen lays out what Chad taught about three phrases of translation – emotional, spiritual and physical. Each one would go from 0-100%, vibrations would go from 0-1000% and around 80% there is a big test in order for you to get to 100%. Then you move on to the next phase.

9:06 a.m. Zulema had never heard anything like this before, but she was open to it. Blake moves to admit another exhibit. Boyce asks for a brief sidebar.

9:03 a.m. Chad told Zulema she lived in different worlds. She had come to the third world five times, to the fourth world four times and to the fifth world four times. Chad told Zulema he was the brother of Heavenly Father and Jesus. In another creation, he had been the Holy Ghost. On the diagram, there is a circle with the word “limbo.” Chad and Lori told Zulema that when a person passes away, there was a small time where the body was a viable body. It could be occupied by a dark spirit or demon. Because the body no longer has its original spirit, the spirit could not move to the spirit world but would go to limbo.

9 a.m. Chad told Zulema about her past lives and gave her a rating – a 4.2 light. Blakes moves to admit an exhibit Zulema drew after speaking with Chad. It is shown on the screen. Zulema explains that Chad and Lori were teaching that in one realm of creation, there were five different worlds to which one person could come to.

8:57 a.m. Zulema said Lori and Melanie Gibb started a podcast, and Chad was going to be a guest. After the podcast, Chad said he wanted to go to lunch because he had information he needed to give to Zulema. Lori, Gibb, Chad and Zulema all went together. Lori and Chad didn’t want Gibb to hear what Chad was going to tell Zulema. Chad said he would call Zulema later. When he called, he said he was able to read people’s past lives and he wanted to give Zulema a reading of her past lives.

8:56 a.m. The day after the conference, Lori was supposed to have a meeting at her house. Zulema did not go to the house but instead went to the temple. When Zulema walked into the celestial room, Chad and Lori were sitting together. They both stood up and walked to Zulema. Lori told Zulema not to tell anyone that they were in the temple.

8:54 a.m. Chad said there were three phases to translation: the physical part, the spiritual part and the third part she can’t remember. With each part, you go up on vibration and when you hit 100, you move onto the next phase. Zulema had never heard translation taught this way, but she was open to the idea.

8:53 a.m. Chad praised Zulema a lot during the blessing. During that weekend, everyone gathered in a room. There were around 6-7 women there – no other men. Chad sat in the middle of the room and he taught everyone the doctrine of translation. Charles was out of town with JJ so Lori could have the house for guests.

8:51 a.m. Chad gave Zulema a blessing during that weekend. Zulema says usually when you receive a blessing, it is tailored to the specific needs you may have at that time. This blessing was different. “It was almost as if Chad was looking into the future for me and he was telling me how special of a person I was, how many gifts I had and all the things that I was going to do in the future. It was very, very different than what I used to.”

8:50 a.m. At another conference near Lori’s home, Lori had a gathering afterward at her house. Zulema attended and went outside with Chad and Lori. Lori started playing basketball and asked Chad to play with her. “It was very uncomfortable for me. I felt like a third wheel, so I said I was going to go inside the house. Chad said he was going to go inside with her. Lori said, ‘Why are you going inside – are you scared of me?'”

8:49 a.m. Chad told Lori that they were the angels who were supposed to gather the 144,000, according to Zulema.

8:47 a.m. On the way home from the conference, Lori asked Zulema and Melanie to search the scriptures for certain things – anything to do with James the Less and Doctrine and Covenants 77:11 (which has to do with the 144,000). Lori didn’t expand on why she wanted information on James the Less. Lori later told Zulema that Chad had told her in a previous life that they had been married and Chad was James the Less, who was one of Jesus Christ’s disciples. Lori was his wife, and her name in that previous life was Helena.

8:46 a.m. Zulema recalls Lori being flirtatious and “putting on the moves” on Chad when they first met. Chad was “very giggly” and laughing a lot with her. Zulema knew Lori was married to Charles Vallow. Zulema also knew Chad was married.

8:45 a.m. Zulema met Chad at a conference in Mesa in the summer of 2018. Zulema says she did not stay in contact with Chad but she stayed in touch with Lori. She developed a friendship with Lori after the St. George conference in 2018. Zulema traveled with Lori, Melanie Gibb, Michelle and another woman to the conference.

8:44 a.m. Zulema’s attorney, Garrett Smith, is in the courtroom. He also represents Ian and Melani Pawlowski. Lindsey Blake is questioning Zulema. She asks Zulema how she met Lori Vallow. They met in 2018 at Melanie Gibb’s house.

8:41 a.m. Next witness for the state: Zulema Pastenes. She was married to Alex Cox and was very close with Chad and Lori.

8:38 a.m. Attorneys are back at their tables. Boyce is on the bench. Jurors are being brought in.

8:33 a.m. The attorneys are meeting with Judge Boyce in chambers.

8:28 a.m. There are likely 50-60 people in the gallery today – one of the busiest days we have seen. Larry Woodcock is here. Rex Conner, Lori Vallow’s uncle, is also here.

8:25 a.m. We are back in the courtroom for day 18 of Chad Daybell’s trial. He’s in a light blue shirt with a red tie. He is seated next to John Prior. At the prosecution table – Madison County Prosecutor Rob Wood, Fremont County Prosecutor Lindsey Blake, Fremont County Dep. Prosecutor Rocky Wixom and Special Prosecutor Ingrid Batey.
Bringing this forward for some Alex/Mexico details.

11:07 a.m. The Saturday before Alex died, he said he was going to Mexico for the day. He left in the morning and was fine but came back sick that night. As Zulema speaks, many jurors are taking notes.
 
Zulema said she'd personally escort JJ to heaven??? Huh? Anyone else ever hear this and more?!!

I know there is tons we don't know and maybe never will but wow.
 
Boy she has some good points, always does. She thinks the others knew everything. That's where my thoughts have pretty much always been as well.
 

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