JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY

Kimster · Jul 16, 2024

I definitely think that Alex was murdered. And I’m not the only one. One of the prosecuting attorneys said the same in a Nate Eaton interview. She said that they cannot check for every single drug that could be put in someone’s body. But every drug that they did check came up negative, so that’s why they deemed it natural causes because they couldn’t find any evidence to the contrary.

Tresir · Jul 16, 2024

GrandmaBear said:
Yeah pretty sure I had it and my mom. Mentioned before elsewhere back when.

Doesn't mean it's what Alex had but if so he also brought it in and back to the country. How many did he infect...

And again how convenient and why were he and Tammy at different times not looked at for it and the people around them and it considered.

Just goes to show ya how if anyone trusts tracking and stats of anything how inaccurate it all is.

I am going by the facts - the testimony says he went to Mexico on the Saturday and was ok when he went but came back sick. He then died 5 days later. That's the facts we have. As a lorry driver I am sure he was used to driving so he may even have had an international driving licence.

So whatever made him sick happened in Mexico or wherever else he went that day.

Tammy did not have clots in her lungs, she had pink foam and bruising that indicated asphyxiation.

As for why wasnt it (Covid) looked at, nobody knew about it in December 2019. First we heard about it was Feb 2020.

For those who think he was murdered, you are basically saying Z did it and I don't think that is right as there is no evidence for that.

Also, saying that Tylees's aunt (Mel P) didnt try and visit her niece, I am not aware that Aunt A did either.

Tresir · Jul 16, 2024

The medical report shows he was a pretty sick man.

From the link posted upthread,

Cox cannot face any charges in the children’s deaths as he died in December of what a medical examiner determined to be natural causes.

The medical examiner’s report shows detectives wrote that Cox complained of shortness of breath and chest pain for about a week before being found unresponsive. On Dec. 12, he was found unconscious in his bathroom surrounded by feces, according to a 911 call obtained by EastIdahoNews.com. First responders were called and rushed Cox to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
READ | The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox
Cox’s wife of two weeks, Zulema Pastenes, told investigators he had no prior medical history and did not take any regular medications, according to the report.
Cox weighed 227 pounds and was 6’ 1.” He appeared relatively healthy on the outside but when the medical examiner opened up Cox’s body, it was a different story, according to the report.
Inside Cox’s lungs were arteries clogged by blood clots and other arteries had a severe buildup of plaque, leading to high blood pressure. Wallis also found non-cancerous tumors inside his liver, an enlarged prostate and a polyp in the digestive tract.
The medical examiner performed extensive tests including a toxicology report, which showed caffeine and a drug called Narcan in his system. First responders give Narcan to non-responsive people to reverse the effects of an opioid overdose.

see link in the blue text above for the actual report.

RoundPeg · Jul 16, 2024

Tresir said:
The medical report shows he was a pretty sick man.

From the link posted upthread,

Cox cannot face any charges in the children’s deaths as he died in December of what a medical examiner determined to be natural causes.

The medical examiner’s report shows detectives wrote that Cox complained of shortness of breath and chest pain for about a week before being found unresponsive. On Dec. 12, he was found unconscious in his bathroom surrounded by feces, according to a 911 call obtained by EastIdahoNews.com. First responders were called and rushed Cox to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
READ | The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox
Cox’s wife of two weeks, Zulema Pastenes, told investigators he had no prior medical history and did not take any regular medications, according to the report.
Cox weighed 227 pounds and was 6’ 1.” He appeared relatively healthy on the outside but when the medical examiner opened up Cox’s body, it was a different story, according to the report.
Inside Cox’s lungs were arteries clogged by blood clots and other arteries had a severe buildup of plaque, leading to high blood pressure. Wallis also found non-cancerous tumors inside his liver, an enlarged prostate and a polyp in the digestive tract.
The medical examiner performed extensive tests including a toxicology report, which showed caffeine and a drug called Narcan in his system. First responders give Narcan to non-responsive people to reverse the effects of an opioid overdose.

see link in the blue text above for the actual report.

The fact his bowels emptied to that degree could point to a cardiac event as well.

GrandmaBear · Jul 16, 2024

Kimster said:
I definitely think that Alex was murdered. And I’m not the only one. One of the prosecuting attorneys said the same in a Nate Eaton interview. She said that they cannot check for every single drug that could be put in someone’s body. But every drug that they did check came up negative, so that’s why they deemed it natural causes because they couldn’t find any evidence to the contrary.

I know you do and you're far from the only one. I do and from what I see most out there do and EVERY prosecutor seems to and the investigator as well.

She did say every drug can never be ruled out and they come to such from lack of other causes or proof. I'll never believe it was natural causes that did it.

GrandmaBear · Jul 16, 2024

Tresir said:
I am going by the facts - the testimony says he went to Mexico on the Saturday and was ok when he went but came back sick. He then died 5 days later. That's the facts we have. As a lorry driver I am sure he was used to driving so he may even have had an international driving licence.

So whatever made him sick happened in Mexico or wherever else he went that day.

Tammy did not have clots in her lungs, she had pink foam and bruising that indicated asphyxiation.

As for why wasnt it (Covid) looked at, nobody knew about it in December 2019. First we heard about it was Feb 2020.

For those who think he was murdered, you are basically saying Z did it and I don't think that is right as there is no evidence for that.

Also, saying that Tylees's aunt (Mel P) didnt try and visit her niece, I am not aware that Aunt A did either.

I consider Mexico likely but I don't see it as a fact unless LE can tell us they confirmed it other than by hearsay from Alex to Z. The "facts" you cite in your first paragraph are all from Zulema. You know, she didn't need an immunity deal from doing nothing. They can arrest for having a casting or two with miles away. It's rumored they all have one but Zulema's is thought to be fact. What did they do, all/any of them?

An international driving license, whatever the heck that is, would not get you back into the States, you have to have a passport or you don't come home. So let's see the passport OR even pictures of him crossing the border. Mexico would let him in but you're not to come back without a passport. I know as I went there at least 12 years in a row and we went from being able to use driver's licenses to having to have a passport and it was made entirely clear to us that it is only the U.S. side that requires such, Mexico never changed it, "we" did. They may have now but I seriously doubt it, they prevent little from coming in or through.

As far as I'm concerned Alex probably went for the very drug/s or poison/s that killed him. He may well have thought they were for future murders and not his. I've given a variety of possible scenarios and not only Zulema but she's very high on the list.

By the way, I don't even know how long Alex trucked and when he quit, pretty sure I've heard that part, but I'd doubt he trucked or delivered internationallly. Most truckers don't and I'd think he'd be pretty garden variety. Many also, and their companies, don't enter California even because of all the ridiculous rules that only some companies are willing to navigate and which change constantly. A job i worked at I ordered the trucks for our products to go to customers (almost always companies they went to), BIG products their key product was but still not a full semi load, but LTL. I'd often have to get the load to California but would have to use one or two that had the connection that would do Calfiornia, so they'd get it to say Idaho or Arizona, etc. and then from there they'd transfer and pay for that but we made payment just to the first trucking company, they handled that part. Never sent any to Mexico but did to Canada and that's its own "fun". Not fun.

Most truckers do the continental and some and their companies even just do a five or however many state area. I worked with a woman towards the end of that job and her husband was a trucker at the time and he stayed midwest BUT he made more money than many truckers as he was able to haul hazardous materials, it's own classification. I doubt Alex was international and I doubt he had a hazardous licensing/ability to handle etc. either.

So I'm not sure what you are talking or thinking with some international driver's license but even if he COULD do such, it wouldn't mean he didn't need a passport and using a trucking thing for his own personal trip? Yeah if I had time I'd look it up but never heard of such a thing.

Here you can drive in any state, heck yes we can all generally drive in any country if we visit but no international license is issued to my knowledge. I've never driven out of country but my ex had in Canada. They just accept that you are a licensed driver in the states but it still isn't a passport to come back into our country and cross the border.

Sorry you've just lost me on that one. His passport would have to be stamped no ifs, ands or buts when he came back as far as I know and we went through OUR customs, the other side.

It used to be far easier but that changed long ago.

You like Reddit so here you go, this is mostly about Tammy but there is some talk of Alex but a lot about malachite. i in just minutes have read down to where how many shows have been done on this and the things it can do to the body. I'd search one relating to just Alex but I was more looking for what it does and can do. Been awhile but I watched a lot about such and Lori has a thing for malachite. Just one thought. Lungs, changes, cardiac, breathing and all sorts of things. Oh and gastrointestinal, diarrhea, more.

if they knew about malachite (I never did) what else did they know of....

One person even mentioned what I've said as a possibility and that's that Alex was part of it himself and knew he was to go.

I think he was murdered though and perhaps by being told to take something he had no idea about.

Like I said, above I gave a few various possibilities but hey Zulema was the one there.

GrandmaBear · Jul 16, 2024

Tresir said:
The medical report shows he was a pretty sick man.

From the link posted upthread,

Cox cannot face any charges in the children’s deaths as he died in December of what a medical examiner determined to be natural causes.

The medical examiner’s report shows detectives wrote that Cox complained of shortness of breath and chest pain for about a week before being found unresponsive. On Dec. 12, he was found unconscious in his bathroom surrounded by feces, according to a 911 call obtained by EastIdahoNews.com. First responders were called and rushed Cox to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
READ | The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox
Cox’s wife of two weeks, Zulema Pastenes, told investigators he had no prior medical history and did not take any regular medications, according to the report.
Cox weighed 227 pounds and was 6’ 1.” He appeared relatively healthy on the outside but when the medical examiner opened up Cox’s body, it was a different story, according to the report.
Inside Cox’s lungs were arteries clogged by blood clots and other arteries had a severe buildup of plaque, leading to high blood pressure. Wallis also found non-cancerous tumors inside his liver, an enlarged prostate and a polyp in the digestive tract.
The medical examiner performed extensive tests including a toxicology report, which showed caffeine and a drug called Narcan in his system. First responders give Narcan to non-responsive people to reverse the effects of an opioid overdose.

see link in the blue text above for the actual report.

I've seen it before back when like we all have. Doesn't change my opinion. I actually saw it at lunch today and so I'd already read ahead before I answered above where I touched on some of these things and what malachite can do for instance. MANY of these kinds of things are mentioned.

Yeah they were married a whole two weeks...

You said it somewhere but what I meant about Tammy and Alex is not her later autopsy but the stories and things Chad passed off and were never looked into which were also "sick" that night, trouble breathing, he figured it was heart, and a lot more and his stories to a few different people varied as well. I don't lean towards malachite with Tammy though but not convinced and not convinced he didn't give her something before they did what they did. However with no one home, they could have also simply overpowered her and put her through holy terror.

Ya know though... They both were said to be sick prior by members of this cult... I could go back to Joe as well.. However, I've been through these things and have watched all on it back in teh day and all the deaths and everything known on them. They're all shady and we know now some were outright murders.

Anyhow, the whole thing as you know, we all know has so many twists and turns with this bunch I could twist and turn further in this and more posts but doesn't really matter. I believe he was murdered and probably always will. And not a single one of these people would have turned on their cult leaders if they felt they had a choice and in fact at first did not, and lied. I'm not a fan of any of them either and never will be. They did their part and what they had to do at the trials, well some, and one not in both...

There's tons more info and like Rachel Smith said they had to constantly pick and choose what to use and also what to chase down or not. And Alex's trip to Mexico wasn't one of them but she'd have liked to. I don't KNOW if they have proof he went but she'd have very much to learn more about what he bought and more about it.

You're welcome to your opinion and I can even see where you come by it if I considered Zulema to necessarily tell or even have the facts. But like I said love ya, but I'll go with the prosecutors, investigators and most of the public on this one. Especially the first two. They know more than we do and have access to more and they think he did not die of natural causes.

I know there can be coincidence on rare occasion but there's way too many here.

And so we can differ. And Z is fair game as far as I'm concerned, they all are. Again there's an immunity agreement to keep her from being prosecuted for something...

I wonder if she conjured the most recent hurricane with her powers. Eyeroll. How can adults which they all were even fall for this evil but ridculous bullsh*t. And she sure did marry Alex do we really believe this was their idea and they were in love and she was more proud of her last name and wanted him to take it or something. Of course that's not what was going on. Why would you not tell your adult so you got married? I mean he's an adult, what's the big deal?

And that entire day and her behavior and stories well, Id' like to go back and see all that at some point because nothing added up. And her behavior was weird. Guilty. I don't know if you've been through that or not but I was.

The timing and just EVERYTHING.

She was pi*ssed at Alex. Lori. Let's also remember she had not a qualm about her kids and was calling Chad to see if they were at a high enough level yet and if it was time, just wanting it. When Lori decided it was time for someone to go, it was time. Chad as well. Alex had become a huge liabillity, thanks to them of course making him the hitman all of the time, etc. he was missing and screwing up and I've on occasion wondered if some part of him did not want to do it but no real proof of that, I guess I'd just like to think you couldn't be that cold to former loved ones, but then Lori was...

And I still go on. Sorry. I'll stop.

This isn't by far a solo opinion. I'd say yours is more so. Not that such couldn't happen but the only reason to think it's true is Zulema. And no way does she and she alone do it for me. Every one of these women knew a lot of what LE could never prove meaning at that time, who could disprove what Z said about coming home sick? Sick for five days you said? Who all saw him that way? Just asking/ I mean other than Chad and Lori giving a blessing by phone and the group. Don't think I ever saw a son's interview other than the day of, the 911 call etc but of course lawyering up happened fast with Z.

You know, Lori and Chad didn't take good enough care of their followers. They left them all flailing in the wind while they rushed for Hawaii and all on home soil for LE in all areas to come knocking... Pretty much abandoned them... Chad's kids, Mel P and new hub, Alex and Z, Mel G and David... Yet all stayed loyal and some still do... Idiots.

Yeah been here before, just have ingested a ton over the years, not fresh on all but still on much.

Anyhow....

GrandmaBear · Jul 17, 2024

I can only guess I linked to this from @Tresir OR was doing a search for when Alex died and then got tired and was a work day/night. I don't recall reading it any time recently but was open in a tab I had up when cleaning some off. For anyone who has followed this case there is sooo much here of note that most would pick up on. And so much NOT said or shared. But also so MUCH we do know we can place in the time frame, etc. and about the people. TONS imo. No time right now, but would like to get back to it. It probably came from tresir not sure when I opened it but again don't recall reading it recently so I probably meant to and was going down for the count.

Contrary to if it was meant to be about death of natural causes, to me it says a ton the opposite way. And again I may have searched and found it but I rarely get time so guessing it was linked by her. Not sure.

I did search malachite earlier and do do some searches on cases but don't get to do many and share but try, so again not sure. Was going to exit the tab then saw what it was about and read it. Linking as I want to hopefully not lose it to far back behind to comment on all it says and doesn't say. It isn't the New details released on what happened the day Alex Cox died Z and Alex thing and day etc. of his death but it's got some of it.

I'll note just one thing--so this was a stepson not a son.... Where's dad? Is there a reason Z's stepson is living with her as an adult? I think something may have been said about that back when but can't recall. And it was her actual daughter that outed her and Lori, etc. versus what she claimed. THAT I had read again recently somewhere. Didn't think Lori was married and so much more, give me a break. Chad claimed that too while married to her, hardly knew her, only through her brother WHILE married. Oh there's a TON to dissect in this and I very well may have back a time ago. I think everyone can and will note several things.

New details released on what happened the day Alex Cox died

Authorities released new information Monday regarding the investigation into the death of Lori Vallow Daybell’s brother, Alex Cox.

www.kivitv.com

GrandmaBear · Jul 22, 2024

Whoa. I haven't watched this yet and stressing that but Nate was talking about releasing this and debating. It is from a few years back, unedited, never released. So linking for all before I even watch it. Hope I get time and remember to do so.

Was a work day and early one and then got an offer on my home during the day and they wanted an answer today and just haven't had a moment and still haven't answered but need to talk to realtor first and they were find with waiting until tomorrow but it is STILL something I haven't been able to discuss yet and still a work week for me. Anyhow, haven't had a moment between texting on break and such and now I'm looking at the offer finally between trying to catch up here and he is going to call a few hours from now. Anyhow, just doing this and that and catching up here and this is going on my list to watch of course. Interested in comments from anyone who does though prior to me, as always.

GrandmaBear · Jul 22, 2024

Just finished a long talk with my realtor a past 8 when it started.. And tired and just didn't even know what else I needed to do or where to start, an the above was up and I hit in and less than 1:30 in, what a nutcase. I'm sorry but give it two minutes. I don't know if I will get to kee patching but boy...

I had seen her before and watched something of hers back when so I'm not entirely surprised but I am. She doesn't even try to come across as normal from the start. And I do NOT mean it in the sense of she does no know exactly what she's doing...

Not TWO minutes in. Although the way the day has went I need some normalcy and cooking. Never seen anything of Nate's not worth watching even though one to another may be a bi more so or less so and this one he held back.... I can see why already in just a minute or two.

My take on her with what I watched back when, one of her podcasts, that was bad enough, this is already beyond.

GrandmaBear · Jul 22, 2024

And some people fall for this crap. SMFH. Excuse my French.

Kimster · Jul 23, 2024

It took Nate a long time to release this interview with Rowe and I can see why. And I think the only reason he released it was because a lot of people said they wanted to watch it. I know I was one of them.

Right off the bat she comes off as being absolutely a nutcase. So there’s more than one of them out there, that’s for sure. I think I left it on for about 20 minutes before I said I’d had enough and turned it off.

GrandmaBear · Jul 24, 2024

Kimster said:
It took Nate a long time to release this interview with Rowe and I can see why. And I think the only reason he released it was because a lot of people said they wanted to watch it. I know I was one of them.

Right off the bat she comes off as being absolutely a nutcase. So there’s more than one of them out there, that’s for sure. I think I left it on for about 20 minutes before I said I’d had enough and turned it off.

I the night I put it up and remarked on it was going to come back and go on and call her a nutcase as well as there just is no other word for her. Does this woman actually believe she comes across as truthful and legitimate and that her "thoughts" are normal? I don't buy it anyhow, another con but she sure sticks to it.

I never finished it either, was a hard schedule this week with times all over the place and it was so whacky. I always watch all of Nate's in full but I haven't finished it yet. I may or may not get back to it. I really DO want to hear all the ridiculous things she says other than she is hard to take without a doubt. Only minutes in one can tell that. How he can even handle sitting with people like this I have no idea, without bursting out laughing or saying you are NOT serious ARE you??

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

Not my favorite channel, I am kind of about it like I can take or leave it, middle of the road. And I haven't watched it yet, no time to do so but since they have Rob Wood on I of course am going to share it. Regardless, that is one of the prosecutors in these cases.

And because of that too I will be watching when I get time.

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

I started it but am not going to continue right now but just wanted to add Kay, Colby, Megan and Tammy's family if I heard it all correctly are in the chat on the show. Of course Lauren goes looking for how he first heard of their show... Have to get that in there and of course I was back when and played in...

Gotta get that in there. Like I said I'm kind of meh about the two of them and the show and there's reasons for that. But again I'm not going to not listen to Rob Wood. Later when I have time. And would like to see the family comments too.

If anyone does listen before I get to, please fill in on it.

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

So I had to get away from Doerman so started this one. I am 20 or so minutes in and it is quite interesting. I may go back and do a rewatch after I watch the first time as there is no chat up and I would like to see any family comments.

Personally I think Rob Wood knows more and has more intuition and more correct judgment of Chad and Lori than the doctor does. It is part of my problems with this show, I don't find his insight very correct or it lacks any intuition too imo. I'm no expert but he's hardly the only one i've ever seen and I just don't find him that spot on a lot of the time.

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

Rob does not believe Chad thought for a moment that the kids were really zombies. The doctor (and I've heard him before) seems to lean towards Chad believed his own **** but Rob doesn't. I know who I find the right interpretation from.... Aunt is in the chat, Tammy's, and agrees, etc. Chat isn't on yet in the one I am watching but they are referring to it and the comments. It's good discussion even if I do not agree with Dr. John, hearing Rob is interesting alone.

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

And discussion religion is not taboo in the video or for Rob either and so they get to get into some meat of it.

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

The MONEY is what Rob says the motive was, and I agree. The overall one anyhow.

GrandmaBear · Aug 4, 2024

Thinks Chad also is a LOT about power but money is always the underlying theme for both. He sees money as the primary motivator.

JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell *GUILTY*

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JOSHUA "JJ" VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN, TAMMY DAYBELL, & CHARLES VALLOW: State of Idaho/Arizona vs. Lori & Chad Daybell GUILTY